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Discussion - "No Exit" (2/13/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [81]Feb 16, 2009
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    Tigh complained that while they were made by humans we couldkeep going and blame the first bacteria for dividing. (I like that thought) Of course his memories haven't been triggered yet.

    Cavil stated that he for one is glad his ancestors didn't crawl out of the slime. Then again he was created by the final five.

    I'm thinking they were created by those everyone considers to be "The gods of Kobol"

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [82]Feb 16, 2009
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    hazelnut144 wrote:
    RDM said a little bit in the podcast about Daniel. Apparently Daniel WILL be important in Caprica, so the Daniel Greystone theory is looking possible (just because it would seem somewhat confusing to have two Daniel's walking around) As for the whole 13 cylons thing, it was definitely not planned. From what I have been able to piece together, they always knew that Ellen was a cylon...I think they always knew she would be the final one revealed. But the whole idea of the Final Five didn't come into existance until after Sharon was assigned #8. So they always had it in the back of their mind that there probably would have to be a 13th. But the reason that six in the miniseries said that there were only 12 models, was because the 234568's knew that there were seven of them, and then the mysterious final five. They didn't know about Daniel ever having existed.


    OK... I'm in the UK, so I don't get to see the episode until Tuesday (tomorrow). However, I did get to see a very detailed synopsis over the weekend (practically scene-by-scene) that a friend in the US sent, such was his annoyance with the turn of events. From what I've read, I've got to admit, I can see why people elsewhere are shouting "COP-OUT!" at the revelations.

    Even going with your idea that the "original 7" didn't know any more than there being 12 with the Final Five - the excuse that this is because they "didn't know" about No. 13 doesn't really fly, because the production crew have - right from the start - always insisted (opening titles, folks), that there are TWELVE and that THEY have plan. I hate to say this, and I'll willingly retract if I find otherwise tomorrow), but right now it sounds very much as if there was never a cohesive story arc to the entire series. Why?

    Witness:

    1. The production crew are on record as saying they had NO IDEA who the Final Five were. Indeed, in one of the commentaries in the boxed sets o DVDs, it is very much indicated that any notion of there being a "final five" was plucked out of the air during the development of the 2nd season.

    2. Ellen wasn't settled upon (finally) until around season 3.

    3. We now have a story that has to tell through exposition / flashback, a series of PIVOTAL EVENTS that are now necessary to give the main "arc" cohesion. Sorry, but there is a basic tenet in film and TV writing - if you have something central to the storyline, never, ever, ever, introduce it as occurring "off screen" as either flashbacks or through dialogue / exposition. If it is important enough to the telling of the story, it should be told / indicated at the time it occurs. Even in the cheesiest whodunits, while the director may not blatantly point to the murder / instrument of murder or motive - they certainly lay down sufficient cluse along the way so that when the Great Detective reveals' the Truth - THEN via flashback, the pieces fall neatly into place....

    ....I get the impression here that this is not the case, rather, we're just presented with and entire backstory lasting many months (indeed, the entire arc of the show) and are now expected to accept the cleverness of the writing team? Sounds hollow to me...

    (ducks for cover once more).
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  • Avatar of ebony_kunoichi

    ebony_kunoichi

    [83]Feb 16, 2009
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    o.k....

    here goes: I think Daniel is Kara or something, Maybe ellen hid/salvaged and altered copies of Daniel. that would explain why Kara found her ship and herself on earth. Or, Daniel was her genetic father and maybe someone implanted Kara's mother with Daniels sperm and DNA and kara has inherited genetic memories from him. Remember Kara's father was a musician!

    I still dont get why earth blew up. Was it the centurions that rebelled on earth? Also Chief and Tory? OMG, yuck! but that would explain somethings. I would love to know who or whom the other cylon models were based on. Cavil was based on Ellens father and I think Six was based on Ellen maybe. daniel was probably based on something that has to do with anders.

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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [84]Feb 16, 2009
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    In terms of who built the 13th tribe. From what I can tell, the humans stole "fire" from the lords of Kobol (ie the ability to created life) and made the human cylons, who I really don't think are that much different from humans. I mean sure they have some kind of reaction to the stuff at Ragnar's Anchorage, but there is really no way that they are "machines" other than them being created. Organic memory transfer was a technology....sounds kind of like cloning a new body when the old one starts deteriorating, and transferring the memories. And then, they discovered how to reproduce and then they were really nothing more nor less than humans.

    Zerbleflip:

    1.Of course the writers didn't really have a plan. It's a television show. They always make it up as they go along. They do not have a 4 season arc planned in advance. They do better than most shows really. They don't really screw up previous canon. The only thing is the 13th tribe, and they really couldn't fix that. They assigned Sharon the number 8 before they decided on having the final five. And that was really out of necessity. Baltar was on their ships, and was wondering "why is it I only ever see seven of you". As for them saying that there are 12 models, there are only 12. The 13th doesn't exist anymore. We might see who he is in flashbacks, or in Caprica, but at the time of BSG there are only 12 cylon models. And the cylons did have a plan. We just didn't know what it was, and neither did the writers and producers.

    2. I believe I have read somewhere that Ellen has been the final cylon since the first season. The other four weren't decided until the last minute, same as most of the other seven. Once again, I will reiterate. This is not a novel. It is a television show. Since this show DOES have a (sort of) defined end, I think that they had some idea what would happen. I believe it was at the end of New Caprica, when RDM said that we had entered the second act of the show. The third act, of course, was finding Earth was useless, and having to keep on going. So I think RDM always had those three acts vaguely planned out, but what happened to get us from point A to point B to point C really depended on how long the show ran for, ect. Movies and books do this too. When sequels aren't planned, but the first installment is really popular? They then create backstory and stuff in order to make more installments.

    3. They didn't do these flashbacks during the show because they would have revealed that Ellen is the final cylon, earlier than it was planned. If you think about it, Ellen's arrival on Galactica was always weird, and we never actually saw what Baltar saw. They left it up to chance if she was actually human, or if Baltar just liked playing god and knowing what no one else knew, or even if the detector didn't really work on the five (if you think about it, they could very well have differences from the seven that would cause them not to show up on Baltar's cylon detector...otherwise he would have known at least Tigh and Tyrol. And the pieces given to us fit into what we know. I'm sure they could have come up with other stories that fit, but that is beside the point. Cavil was always completely against finding the final five - it turns out that he didn't want the others to know what he had done. The whole confession of Tyrol's takes on so much more meaning now that Cavil was aware all along that Tyrol was one of the five. Ellen's miraculous apparition on Cloud Nine I believe. Cavil being with Anders' group of insurgents. Cavil so against removing the inhibitors in the centurions (if the centurions were the ones that believed in the one true god, it is obvious that they had much higher thought processes before. Cavil probably put those inhibitors in when he killed the five, and wiped the memory of them from the other six.

    Sorry for the long rant, but this is just my rebuttal to your points.

    Edited on 02/16/2009 10:39am
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  • Avatar of Daxx00004

    Daxx00004

    [86]Feb 16, 2009
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    hazelnut144 wrote:

    In terms of who built the 13th tribe. From what I can tell, the humans stole "fire" from the lords of Kobol (ie the ability to created life) and made the human cylons, who I really don't think are that much different from humans. I mean sure they have some kind of reaction to the stuff at Ragnar's Anchorage, but there is really no way that they are "machines" other than them being created. Organic memory transfer was a technology....sounds kind of like cloning a new body when the old one starts deteriorating, and transferring the memories. And then, they discovered how to reproduce and then they were really nothing more nor less than humans.

    Zerbleflip:

    1.Of course the writers didn't really have a plan. It's a television show. They always make it up as they go along. They do not have a 4 season arc planned in advance. They do better than most shows really. They don't really screw up previous canon. The only thing is the 13th tribe, and they really couldn't fix that. They assigned Sharon the number 8 before they decided on having the final five. And that was really out of necessity. Baltar was on their ships, and was wondering "why is it I only ever see seven of you". As for them saying that there are 12 models, there are only 12. The 13th doesn't exist anymore. We might see who he is in flashbacks, or in Caprica, but at the time of BSG there are only 12 cylon models. And the cylons did have a plan. We just didn't know what it was, and neither did the writers and producers.

    2. I believe I have read somewhere that Ellen has been the final cylon since the first season. The other four weren't decided until the last minute, same as most of the other seven. Once again, I will reiterate. This is not a novel. It is a television show. Since this show DOES have a (sort of) defined end, I think that they had some idea what would happen. I believe it was at the end of New Caprica, when RDM said that we had entered the second act of the show. The third act, of course, was finding Earth was useless, and having to keep on going. So I think RDM always had those three acts vaguely planned out, but what happened to get us from point A to point B to point C really depended on how long the show ran for, ect. Movies and books do this too. When sequels aren't planned, but the first installment is really popular? They then create backstory and stuff in order to make more installments.

    3. They didn't do these flashbacks during the show because they would have revealed that Ellen is the final cylon, earlier than it was planned. If you think about it, Ellen's arrival on Galactica was always weird, and we never actually saw what Baltar saw. They left it up to chance if she was actually human, or if Baltar just liked playing god and knowing what no one else knew, or even if the detector didn't really work on the five (if you think about it, they could very well have differences from the seven that would cause them not to show up on Baltar's cylon detector...otherwise he would have known at least Tigh and Tyrol. And the pieces given to us fit into what we know. I'm sure they could have come up with other stories that fit, but that is beside the point. Cavil was always completely against finding the final five - it turns out that he didn't want the others to know what he had done. The whole confession of Tyrol's takes on so much more meaning now that Cavil was aware all along that Tyrol was one of the five. Ellen's miraculous apparition on Cloud Nine I believe. Cavil being with Anders' group of insurgents. Cavil so against removing the inhibitors in the centurions (if the centurions were the ones that believed in the one true god, it is obvious that they had much higher thought processes before. Cavil probably put those inhibitors in when he killed the five, and wiped the memory of them from the other six.

    Sorry for the long rant, but this is just my rebuttal to your points.


    Excellent summary. Also remember that Ellen claimed to be in an extended coma after the attack on the colonies. Maybe that is exactly the kind of coma that Sam is going into. Except he is basically "rebooting" to his previous personality and memories.
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [87]Feb 16, 2009
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    hazelnut144 wrote:
    1.Of course the writers didn't really have a plan. It's a television show. They always make it up as they go along. They do not have a 4 season arc planned in advance. They do better than most shows really.
    Nope....B5 definitively demonstrated a series can have a structured arc telling a story with a pre-determined beginning, middle & end. RDM has very much promoted BSG as being the same. What happened when B5 went off course was not a lack of haing a cohesive arc, but was due to the vagaries of TV suits interfering with the show (there would be five seasons, no fours seasons, OK five seasons, etc.), which drastically impacted JMS's ability to tell his story. No such pressure here.
    hazelnut144 wrote:
    They don't really screw up previous canon. The only thing is the 13th tribe, and they really couldn't fix that.
    Sure, the 13th TRIBE was a given - and having them as Cylons is a clever twist, no two ways about it. The pulling of a 13th CYLON out of the hat, however, smacks somewhat of desperation in order to make the story "work".
    hazelnut144 wrote:
    And the cylons did have a plan....and neither did the writers and producers.
    Actually, I pointed this out back in season 2 in one of my reviews. However, my point remains, RDM has repeatedly (in podcasts and elsewhere) stated this is a story with a structured beginning, middle and end. "No Exit" confirms this was far from the case.
    hazelnut144 wrote:
    I believe I have read somewhere that Ellen has been the final cylon since the first season. The other four weren't decided until the last minute, same as most of the other seven.
    The UK edition of the Season 3 boxed set has a commentary from one of the writers stating that NONE of the Final Five were determined until very late on in Season 2 writing, and that it came out of a brainstorming session among the core writers. At that time, only 4 were definitively chosen.
    hazelnut144 wrote:
    Once again, I will reiterate. This is not a novel.
    Funny that, because that is PRECISELY how RDM has referred to it - taking a leaf right out of JMS's book...
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  • Avatar of psychickiller

    psychickiller

    [88]Feb 16, 2009
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    Tons of info poured into my brain in this episode! Lots of things starting to make sense, including the little things. So lets see...

    1. The Cylons were created on Kobol, and they already had the resurrection technology. They left to find their own planet, perhaps after a rebellion? They ended up on Earth, and after discovering they can procreate, the resurrection technology was abandoned.

    2. Earth Centurions were created, and eventually rebeled. The Final Five reinvented the resurrection technology after (?) they were given a warning about the upcoming holocaust. They resurrected on a ship orbiting Earth, and set out to find the Twelve Colonies and warn them not to create AI.

    3. Twelve Colonies Centurions were created, and rebeled too. Experiments of skinjobs failed, resulting only in Hybrids. The Final Five arrive with an offer of skinjob and resurrection technology, in exchange for Human-Cylon peace.

    4. 8 models are created. Cavil murders the Final Five, murders permanently Number Seven, places the Final Five in the colonies with false memories.

    5. A small, yet bothering question is answered. Why DID the Cylons come back to destroy humanity? It has been debated before, and never resolved. I'm very pleased with the satasfying answer, that Cavil is simply flawed with rage and vengence, that led him to do terrible things - including hunting down Humanity.

    The Number Seven story, in my eyes, is simply to explain the gap between Number Six and Number Eight. A very well written and integrated story, though.

    Awesome episode, by the way.
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  • Avatar of psychickiller

    psychickiller

    [89]Feb 16, 2009
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    Babylon 5 is a good example for a show that's been planned from the beginning the to end, so all the details and clues make perfect sense.

    BSG on the other hand wasn't planned at all, except for a vague model for the series in its creator's head. Don't take me wrong though, because I think RDM has dealt very well with filling the gaps so far. The background story is satasfying, at least in my opinion, and the answers make sense.

    I'm looking forward to the tougher topics though, which are the Head figures, the Lord of Kobol, the One God, etc.
    It's much harder to deliver good answers over the mystical mysteries.
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  • Avatar of Mangalore

    Mangalore

    [90]Feb 16, 2009
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    psychickiller wrote:
    Babylon 5 is a good example for a show that's been planned from the beginning the to end, so all the details and clues make perfect sense. ...


    Sorry, but as much as I like B5 it is not very coherent in places as well even if we forget the godaweful 5th season that showed a complete breakdown of concept and story because there was none planned beforehand.

    I believe the approach in BSG was simply a more fluid one taking the knowledge of the TV industry into the equation, esspecially since BSG was a very expensive production for SciFi to carry (so it could not be said that they can/would support three or four season).

    The basic plot of B5 is not very revolutionary either to demand much concept: Sauron returns to Mordor and the elves make a last alliance with the humans ... er, you get the idea. It was the episode to episode narration that was interesting and I won't believe they had that one planned out from the start.

    I think people are expecting wee bit too much...
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  • Avatar of pumpkinhead2

    pumpkinhead2

    [91]Feb 16, 2009
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    My first thought was that Daniel was Starbuck's father.

    This could partly explain her resurrection and her special destiny.

    Then there was Tyrol's idea to use Cylon technology to "resurrect" the galactica. This could explain Starbuck's brand new viper.

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  • Avatar of gibbin1

    gibbin1

    [92]Feb 16, 2009
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    zerbleflip wrote:
    hazelnut144 wrote:
    RDM said a little bit in the podcast about Daniel. Apparently Daniel WILL be important in Caprica, so the Daniel Greystone theory is looking possible (just because it would seem somewhat confusing to have two Daniel's walking around) As for the whole 13 cylons thing, it was definitely not planned. From what I have been able to piece together, they always knew that Ellen was a cylon...I think they always knew she would be the final one revealed. But the whole idea of the Final Five didn't come into existance until after Sharon was assigned #8. So they always had it in the back of their mind that there probably would have to be a 13th. But the reason that six in the miniseries said that there were only 12 models, was because the 234568's knew that there were seven of them, and then the mysterious final five. They didn't know about Daniel ever having existed.
    OK... I'm in the UK, so I don't get to see the episode until Tuesday (tomorrow). However, I did get to see a very detailed synopsis over the weekend (practically scene-by-scene) that a friend in the US sent, such was his annoyance with the turn of events. From what I've read, I've got to admit, I can see why people elsewhere are shouting "COP-OUT!" at the revelations. Even going with your idea that the "original 7" didn't know any more than there being 12 with the Final Five - the excuse that this is because they "didn't know" about No. 13 doesn't really fly, because the production crew have - right from the start - always insisted (opening titles, folks), that there are TWELVE and that THEY have plan. I hate to say this, and I'll willingly retract if I find otherwise tomorrow), but right now it sounds very much as if there was never a cohesive story arc to the entire series. Why? Witness: 1. The production crew are on record as saying they had NO IDEA who the Final Five were. Indeed, in one of the commentaries in the boxed sets o DVDs, it is very much indicated that any notion of there being a "final five" was plucked out of the air during the development of the 2nd season. 2. Ellen wasn't settled upon (finally) until around season 3. 3. We now have a story that has to tell through exposition / flashback, a series of PIVOTAL EVENTS that are now necessary to give the main "arc" cohesion. Sorry, but there is a basic tenet in film and TV writing - if you have something central to the storyline, never, ever, ever, introduce it as occurring "off screen" as either flashbacks or through dialogue / exposition. If it is important enough to the telling of the story, it should be told / indicated at the time it occurs. Even in the cheesiest whodunits, while the director may not blatantly point to the murder / instrument of murder or motive - they certainly lay down sufficient cluse along the way so that when the Great Detective reveals' the Truth - THEN via flashback, the pieces fall neatly into place.... ....I get the impression here that this is not the case, rather, we're just presented with and entire backstory lasting many months (indeed, the entire arc of the show) and are now expected to accept the cleverness of the writing team? Sounds hollow to me... (ducks for cover once more).

    WHO CARESSS!!! ITS A GREAT SHOW, JUST WATCH AND ENJOY. Look at Lost, the creators had no idea where they were going at the start.

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  • Avatar of dragon755

    dragon755

    [93]Feb 16, 2009
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    gibbin1 wrote:

    zerbleflip wrote:
    hazelnut144 wrote:
    RDM said a little bit in the podcast about Daniel. Apparently Daniel WILL be important in Caprica, so the Daniel Greystone theory is looking possible (just because it would seem somewhat confusing to have two Daniel's walking around) As for the whole 13 cylons thing, it was definitely not planned. From what I have been able to piece together, they always knew that Ellen was a cylon...I think they always knew she would be the final one revealed. But the whole idea of the Final Five didn't come into existance until after Sharon was assigned #8. So they always had it in the back of their mind that there probably would have to be a 13th. But the reason that six in the miniseries said that there were only 12 models, was because the 234568's knew that there were seven of them, and then the mysterious final five. They didn't know about Daniel ever having existed.
    OK... I'm in the UK, so I don't get to see the episode until Tuesday (tomorrow). However, I did get to see a very detailed synopsis over the weekend (practically scene-by-scene) that a friend in the US sent, such was his annoyance with the turn of events. From what I've read, I've got to admit, I can see why people elsewhere are shouting "COP-OUT!" at the revelations. Even going with your idea that the "original 7" didn't know any more than there being 12 with the Final Five - the excuse that this is because they "didn't know" about No. 13 doesn't really fly, because the production crew have - right from the start - always insisted (opening titles, folks), that there are TWELVE and that THEY have plan. I hate to say this, and I'll willingly retract if I find otherwise tomorrow), but right now it sounds very much as if there was never a cohesive story arc to the entire series. Why? Witness: 1. The production crew are on record as saying they had NO IDEA who the Final Five were. Indeed, in one of the commentaries in the boxed sets o DVDs, it is very much indicated that any notion of there being a "final five" was plucked out of the air during the development of the 2nd season. 2. Ellen wasn't settled upon (finally) until around season 3. 3. We now have a story that has to tell through exposition / flashback, a series of PIVOTAL EVENTS that are now necessary to give the main "arc" cohesion. Sorry, but there is a basic tenet in film and TV writing - if you have something central to the storyline, never, ever, ever, introduce it as occurring "off screen" as either flashbacks or through dialogue / exposition. If it is important enough to the telling of the story, it should be told / indicated at the time it occurs. Even in the cheesiest whodunits, while the director may not blatantly point to the murder / instrument of murder or motive - they certainly lay down sufficient cluse along the way so that when the Great Detective reveals' the Truth - THEN via flashback, the pieces fall neatly into place.... ....I get the impression here that this is not the case, rather, we're just presented with and entire backstory lasting many months (indeed, the entire arc of the show) and are now expected to accept the cleverness of the writing team? Sounds hollow to me... (ducks for cover once more).

    WHO CARESSS!!! ITS A GREAT SHOW, JUST WATCH AND ENJOY. Look at Lost, the creators had no idea where they were going at the start.

    AHHH!!!.... you beat me to it. I agree. It so annoying all you people out there who expect perfection and analyise (spelling?) every little plot point in any show not just BSG. yes there are some stuff ups...but you have to expect that. Even i didnt think this would go past 2 seasons. At least they have some kind of story to base around. Personally i love this show no matter how many lines said 3 years ago dont fit into the story now.

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    slowblink

    [95]Feb 16, 2009
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    No bites on parallels with BSG and the Asimov universe, but why stop now...?

    In "Foundation and Earth" our heroes find earth, only to discover that it is a radioactive wasteland. Furthermore, Daneel, the robot in human form, is dwelling on earths moon waiting for our heroes in order to continue humanities evolution.

    Most of that has panned out so far in BSG.

    Daneel Olivaw was not the first humanoid robot, but rather, one that was built with an anomaly that made him a little more intuitive than his peers.

    Daniel will have been born in BSG with some trait that made him different/better than the others and Cavill will have destroyed him to avert the threat. The original model of Daniel will still be alive, regenerating himself somehow and dwelling on the research facility orbiting earth. It might be the moon, or with a tip of the hat to the original series, it might be the ship of light.
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    ebony_kunoichi

    [96]Feb 17, 2009
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    The reason the cylons started a war with humanity had nothing to do with the humanoid cylons. the centurions were already at war with the 12 colonies around the time that the final 5 arrived to warn them. The centurions(toasters) were trying to make human like cylons but were failing, so the final 5 agreed to help them and made the 8 cylon models. I assume tht the toasters got tired of humanity treating them live slaves and they started to believe in one god so a war started. I am assuming that the final 5 are decendants of the original cylons that split from the humans. i just want to know what happened to make them split up and find earth and how does this figure into colonial religion?
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    hoobydictator

    [97]Feb 17, 2009
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    psychickiller wrote:
    Babylon 5 is a good example for a show that's been planned from the beginning the to end, so all the details and clues make perfect sense.

    Babylon 5 may have had a planned written history that it was following, but that is not to say that the show wound up coming out as it was originally planned. Apparently, the departure of Sinclair at the end of the first series significantly altered how the whole tale got told (it was originally supposed to have ended where "War Without End" sits), as did the need to get the main storyline played out by the end of the fourth season just in case they did not get the fifth. Even if BSG was planned out in detail before it started, it probably would have come out different as well. And besides, what does it matter if it was wholly planned or not? As long as the story works when you get to the end of it, so what (and be grateful that you do get to the end, unlike certain other shows with arcs canned by gormless TV execs) .

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    hazelnut144

    [98]Feb 17, 2009
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    zerbleflip wrote:
    Nope....B5 definitively demonstrated a series can have a structured arc telling a story with a pre-determined beginning, middle & end. RDM has very much promoted BSG as being the same. What happened when B5 went off course was not a lack of haing a cohesive arc, but was due to the vagaries of TV suits interfering with the show (there would be five seasons, no fours seasons, OK five seasons, etc.), which drastically impacted JMS's ability to tell his story. No such pressure here.
    I can't really argue about B5 with you, never having seen it, but I'll let everyone else who seems to be arguing with you about that do so, since they seem to have actually watched it. But in general, no one ever knows how long a show will go on for, which actors they will be able to keep around, ect. Television writing is a very fluid process.

    zerbleflip wrote:
    Sure, the 13th TRIBE was a given - and having them as Cylons is a clever twist, no two ways about it. The pulling of a 13th CYLON out of the hat, however, smacks somewhat of desperation in order to make the story "work".
    I'm sorry, that was a typo there. The thirteenth cylon was really something they couldn't help. They made Sharon number 8 before they had decided on the final five storyline, and then found themselves in a hole. People would have complained had they made the final five fit into the weird numbering system as well because it wouldn't make sense. They kind of had to make the 13th cylon. It's a bit random, but if that it's not that bad, and at least they didn't pretend that everyone knew about him, they just never mentioned him. When Caprica says in the miniseries that "There are 12 models. I'm number 6" it is because she only knows of 12 models. The seven whose faces she knows, and the mysterious final five.

    zerbleflip wrote:
    Actually, I pointed this out back in season 2 in one of my reviews. However, my point remains, RDM has repeatedly (in podcasts and elsewhere) stated this is a story with a structured beginning, middle and end. "No Exit" confirms this was far from the case.
    I disagree with this. The basic beginning middle and end are the same. The holocaust, the second exodus, and the finding of earth/searching for a new home. That has always been generally planned out. It is getting from one act to another that is fluid.
    zerbleflip wrote:
    The UK edition of the Season 3 boxed set has a commentary from one of the writers stating that NONE of the Final Five were determined until very late on in Season 2 writing, and that it came out of a brainstorming session among the core writers. At that time, only 4 were definitively chosen.
    I remember hearing this differently. I know that the four were just chosen when they decided exactly what the final five would mean, but that Ellen has been known since she was brought into the show. We should probably get some other opinions on this, since we both seem to have heard different things.

    zerbleflip wrote:
    Funny that, because that is PRECISELY how RDM has referred to it - taking a leaf right out of JMS's book...


    But television is very different from books. You have different writers, you have a time limit per episode, you can't always get actors when you want them, you have no clue how long the show will run for, etc.
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  • Avatar of gibbin1

    gibbin1

    [99]Feb 17, 2009
    • member since: 12/23/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 13
    F R A K OFF AND GO WATCH NEIGHBOURS AND DALLAS ALL YOU MOANERS! THis show is amazing, the explanations have been fine and more will be revealed later to plug the holes. ANd why is it an issue for writers to fly by the seat of their pants, most shows do it and cant be any worse than Lost or SMallville or Prison Break.
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  • Avatar of althalus69

    althalus69

    [100]Feb 17, 2009
    • member since: 07/19/06
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 84
    Ok, so everyone was right all the time: Starbuck still is a guy

    We all knew that anyway. This looks like Galactica is getting prepped for the final battle. Would be nice to see a hardened ship plow through Cavils Baseship, probably taking everyone with them.
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