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Discussion - "Revelations" (U.S. air date 6/13/08) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [101]Jun 14, 2008
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    But at the end of that episode, they showed Athena holding Hera while both of them were in the brig.

    Something changed in the following episode. It was probably military necessity. It makes sense that the commander would want his best tactician on hand. Who would know more about fighting the Cylons than a Cylon herself? I don't think this was a writing error. They just didn't have time to show Athena being released.
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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [102]Jun 14, 2008
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    I've always thought that there's more information to show that Ellen was the final Cylon and have posted my arguments elsewhere. Thing is, dramatically, it would be a pretty ineffective outcome. These guys seem to like to write the "Everybody dies and goes to hell" kind of stories.

    After seeing Bill Adama's breakdown at finding his bests friend is a Cylon, I'd figure that if Rosalin is the final one, he'd be ready for the rubber room. Still I hope it's not her, but she was one of the ones on the Cylon ship at the time D'anna was taking captives. If she's already there, then she would only need to ask for 4 more.

    It's too obvious which is why they won't do that. (I sincerely hope!)

    As to Earth, one of the first things I notices was that while they didn't really show any of the land masses, you did get good looks at the dark side of the earth. IT WAS DARK! That alone told me the planet was uninhabited. (Even at that range, if there are satellites, you really wouldn't see them) All we know is that the spot they chose to land on was radioactive, and had man-made structures on it. Though they said the star patterns matched, I wonder how really different the patterns would be from our neighbor; Alpha Centuri?

    None the less, I'm convinced that it is Earth they're on. It is what it is. Sooooo.....

    Is all of earth like that? Are there any inhabitable places? (Arguments over a nuclear war launching all our weapons say that it won't extinguish all life, but it would mostly live in our seas) Would they find records? Can they read the languages if there were? Do we have "Tillium" deposits on Earth? Is the Opera house on Earth? Is it still standing? Will they take a gander at the moon and see evidence of our primitive space-travel? Who grabbed Kara that had the power to flash her to Earth and back again? Why would that person do this knowing the Earth is a pretty dead planet?

    All this and more needs to be answered in the final 10-12 episodes!

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of nomulus

    nomulus

    [103]Jun 14, 2008
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    99% of tv shows and movies have the aliens landing somewhere in the USA... a typical thoughtless and self-centred attitude from writers and producers.

    But unless I missed it... I did not see any signs that this was America. If I'm right... Congratulations to the writers!!

    I actually thought it was ROME! The first thing I noticed was what looked like the ruins of the COLISEUM.

    Athens or Rome would make more poetic sense with the whole Battlestar philosophy than America.

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  • Avatar of nottynotme

    nottynotme

    [104]Jun 14, 2008
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    The Athena thing,out of Jail. Not so much a writer's mistake. But writing with a known plot hole. Listening to older writer commentaries I have heard the writers joke when they take plot liberties for the sake of time and story, that BSG fans always call them out on it. They jokingly said to give them a break once in a while. They do things to conncect the dots in a story.
    On these commentaries I heard Moore mention the opening preview montage was inspired by Space 1999.
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  • Avatar of weirdaaron

    weirdaaron

    [105]Jun 14, 2008
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    Someone above said that the viper could be the fifth cylon. Even though its highly unlikely, its a very interesting thoery. It did help them find earth, and that noise brought all the final four (Tigh, Anders and Tyrol) to that viper. Interesting.
    Edited on 06/14/2008 7:13am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of orxis

    orxis

    [106]Jun 14, 2008
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    1) Concerning whether that was earth they arrived at: At first I was skeptical, too, since the dense cloud cover makes it impossible to identify any landmarks. However, since the position of the planet is confirmed through the position of the stars, I am inclined to believe it is indeed earth. In that case the heavy cloud cover could be a response to the complaints about a lack thereof in the final scene of last season's finale. If it is earth though, how come Roslin is still alive to see it, as someone pointed out? I would say that maybe the prophecy was mis-interpreted and not referring to Roslin after all. This has been hinted at in the show itself. I propose that although the prophecy is translated by the colonials as referring to a "dying leader", it might have been a mistranslation of "a leader dying" and referring to the death of the leader of the cylons, Natalie. Her vision, as expressed in her final speech, combined by the guilt and fear her death engendered are directly responsible for making the human cylon alliance work and thus finding Earth.

    2) Concerning which city they arrived at: I would think that it is not supposed to be any recognisable present day earth city. The nuclear holocaust could have taken place many centuries in our future, when the topography of all earth cities would by unrecognisable to us. Anyway, I can personally attest that it is not any recognisable version of Athens, as someone suggested. For one thing Athens itself is not a coastal city. For another, it presently has only one significant steel skyscraper, not the multitude implied by the ruins shown in the episode.

    3) For the first time in this episode the writers recognise openly through the characters dialogue that the 12 humanoid cylons did not evolve from the centurions during the 40 year armistice, as it was implied by the text at the beginning of the miniseries and every episode for the first 3 seasons. It seems now that humanoid cylons have been around for quite a while, as evidence by the existence of Saul Tigh. From various hints that have surfaced in the press, it would seem that their creation took place in secret during the events that are going to be explored in the new series, "Caprica".

    4) It has been obvious for sometime, at least to me, that despite Starbuck's conclusions, at least the known 4 of the final 5 have not been to Earth and had no idea were it was, or they would certainly have remembered it themselves. Indeed it seems that in the end they do not contribute anything at all to finding earth, at least personally, other than acting as receivers for whatever signal first activated them and then led them to the new viper. On the other hand it seems that "someone" is indeed guiding the fleet, first through starbucks mysterious re-appearance and later through the 4 of the final 5. And despite Kara and Lee's views, it seems that it is not an abstract higher power, ie God, but a rather real person or persons. Could that person be the final Cylon? And what does De'Anna's surprised recognition of the fifth cylon mean in that case? Again based on information about the upcoming prequel series, I would propose that the fifth cylon is a character from that series, recognised by De'Anna because of his/her historical significance to the colonials and the cylons. I think that he/she survived the destruction of the colonies aboard a small but technologically advanced ship and has been shadowing the human and cylon fleets, intervening at crucial points to steer events in accordance to some plan of its own. That would explain where the new viper starbuck appeared in came from. It could have been aboard the ship of the fifth cylon and thus it could indeed have been a brand new (as in unused) craft off the assembly line stored there.

    If even some of these speculations are true, I think that the new series, even though being a prequel, will be a direct continuation of the current series from the viewers' perspective, in the journey towards understanding the mystery of the 12 cylons' origin, identity and goals. Indeed I might hazard a prediction that some of our existing questions will not be answered in this but rather in the next "Caprica" series. It would be interesting if the revelation of the final Cylon's face is the last scene of the series finale, only to be a totally unknown to us face, whose significance would be revealed in the next series, maybe the face of one of the main cast members of that series.

    Edited on 06/14/2008 8:03am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of meerkatmadness

    meerkatmadness

    [107]Jun 14, 2008
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    weirdaaron wrote:
    Someone above said that the viper could be the fifth cylon. Even though its highly unlikely, its a very interesting thoery. It did help them find earth, and that noise brought all the final four (Tigh, Anders and Tyrol) to that viper. Interesting.
    Ah but wasn't Kara the one that brought the viper to Galactica? And when the hybrid said she'd lead the human race to it's end (or something to that effect) it didn't say "you being a human will kill your entire race" so for all we know Kara's the final cylon and it's in her programming to lead all the humans to their death. Though I don't really want her to be.

    Also, Diana saw the final five in that temple and she said that four were in the fleet but why didn't she say anything about the last cylon? It can't be anyone who died after Diana was boxed because she'd have still thought that they were alive, so this is just a wild thought but if maybe it's a character that died before she got boxed, say for instance what about Billy? That seems like a very Judas-like thing, the President's right-hand man completely betrays her. I was never completely sure about whether his character was killed off for reasons other than the plot but you never know.

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  • Avatar of h00plah

    h00plah

    [108]Jun 14, 2008
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    The thing I cannot wait for is Starbucks reaction to the state earth is in. She knows that this is the same place she once visited, but she described it as a much more pleasant place.
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  • Avatar of Daxx00004

    Daxx00004

    [109]Jun 14, 2008
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    I think that the Earth they landed at is many centuries in our past. The 13th colony arrived on Earth, populated it, built machines to help them with their labors then were destroyed by them or they destroyed each other. The survivors limped to another habitable planet and will start all over. Adama's fleet will find a habitable portion of Earth and start civilization up all over again. there may yet be another battle with the cylons and they will blast themselves back to the stone age literally. Our stone age.
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  • Avatar of weirdaaron

    weirdaaron

    [110]Jun 14, 2008
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    meerkatmadness wrote:

    weirdaaron wrote:
    Someone above said that the viper could be the fifth cylon. Even though its highly unlikely, its a very interesting thoery. It did help them find earth, and that noise brought all the final four (Tigh, Anders and Tyrol) to that viper. Interesting.
    Ah but wasn't Kara the one that brought the viper to Galactica? And when the hybrid said she'd lead the human race to it's end (or something to that effect) it didn't say "you being a human will kill your entire race" so for all we know Kara's the final cylon and it's in her programming to lead all the humans to their death. Though I don't really want her to be.
    True, however... didn't D'anna say that only four were in the fleet. (then agian that could contradict the viper theory too. =/) Who knows. =D

    Edited on 06/14/2008 9:05am
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  • Avatar of Idbeolderifiwas

    Idbeolderifiwas

    [111]Jun 14, 2008
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    meerkatmadness wrote:

    weirdaaron wrote:
    Someone above said that the viper could be the fifth cylon. Even though its highly unlikely, its a very interesting thoery. It did help them find earth, and that noise brought all the final four (Tigh, Anders and Tyrol) to that viper. Interesting.
    Ah but wasn't Kara the one that brought the viper to Galactica? And when the hybrid said she'd lead the human race to it's end (or something to that effect) it didn't say "you being a human will kill your entire race" so for all we know Kara's the final cylon and it's in her programming to lead all the humans to their death. Though I don't really want her to be.

    Also, Diana saw the final five in that temple and she said that four were in the fleet but why didn't she say anything about the last cylon? It can't be anyone who died after Diana was boxed because she'd have still thought that they were alive, so this is just a wild thought but if maybe it's a character that died before she got boxed, say for instance what about Billy? That seems like a very Judas-like thing, the President's right-hand man completely betrays her. I was never completely sure about whether his character was killed off for reasons other than the plot but you never know.



    Going on that theory, I have a strong feeling that it could be Kat. Why else would they show a picture of her in this episode? D'anna would have a reason to say sorry to her, as she had just died in "Rapture" 2 episodes prior to when D
    anna found out who the 5 were.
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  • Avatar of ravenclawmage

    ravenclawmage

    [112]Jun 14, 2008
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    Ya, the planet looks very habitable. You can see oceans when viewing the planet from space and there's a breathable atmosphere, so why not start over there...besides the fact that it makes you a setting duck for nukes in your face
    Edited on 06/14/2008 9:07am
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  • Avatar of nomulus

    nomulus

    [113]Jun 14, 2008
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    orxis wrote:
    Concerning which city they arrived at: I would think that it is not supposed to be any recognisable present day earth city. The nuclear holocaust could have taken place many centuries in our future, when the topography of all earth cities would by unrecognisable to us. Anyway, I can personally attest that it is not any recognisable version of Athens, as someone suggested. For one thing Athens itself is not a coastal city. For another, it presently has only one significant steel skyscraper, not the multitude implied by the ruins shown in the episode.

    Whilst I mentioned Athens (only because of the Greek gods connection) my guess was Rome, Italy. The coastal issue didn't bother me for too long because I assumed that if it were in our post-apocalyptic future... our sea levels would have risen (there were ruins in the water after all).

    And there is a contradiction in your statement when you said that you attest to it not being a recognisable version of Athens, but you also claim that the cities would be unrecognisable in a future centuries from now.

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [114]Jun 14, 2008
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    Check out the picture on the other thread. I think that shows pretty clearly that they landed in New York City, right next to the remains of the Brooklyn Bridge.



    nomulus wrote:
    99% of tv shows and movies have the aliens landing somewhere in the USA... a typical thoughtless and self-centred attitude from writers and producers.


    As for why most U.S. shows and movies depict aliens landing in the U.S., that's because they are precisely that -- U.S. shows and movies. Why would American writers writing for American audiences (at first) want to focus on, say, Zaire or East Timor, Uruguay or Andorra? Or France, Panama or India? That would create complications.

    First, the audience would be unfamiliar with that setting. Second, the writers would probably be unfamiliar with that setting so they would get a lot of details wrong or they would have to do extra research just to cover the basics. Third, most screen writers tend to use settings that they know. You could also ask why Japanese monster movies always show creatures like Godzilla attacking Tokyo, not Washington, D.C. or New York. That's because they are Japanese movies. Most British shows and movies feature London. We could ask why Doctor Who spends so much time in London, instead of in Chicago, but I think most people understand that it's a British show. A Chicago setting would make little sense. It's the same with BSG. What other country would you propose for the landing site?

    If the movie is not a travel tale, then why bother writing about a far-off land that you don't really know anything about?
    Edited on 06/14/2008 9:25am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of nottynotme

    nottynotme

    [115]Jun 14, 2008
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    It was probably filmed to be a generic "earth" city. But the directors would have filmed this somewhere to help constrain their budget. So probably on the east cost of upper usa or eastern canada. Lets face it they add cgi to current coastline. Somebody will get the scoop where this was actually filmed.

    Ok looks like New York to me.

    We know RDM pays homage to movies, why not Planet of the Apes. They did it first.

    Edited on 06/14/2008 9:29am
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [117]Jun 14, 2008
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    It was probably filmed in or near Vancouver. But it does appear that it was supposed to represent or hint at New York City. It's definitely the remains of a large city, as evidenced by the numerous buildings in the background. The rubble of the larger structure in the foreground has the distinctive arches of the Brooklyn Bridge. I can't say it's 100% certain but many other people also seem to think it's the Brooklyn Bridge. I'll have to watch the scene again.

    EDIT: OK, it doesn't seem to be as clear-cut as I had thought. The arches of the bridge aren't visible, only the arches of some smaller structure. It can't be an ancient civilization though because there are steel girders in the ruins. Ancient societies did not use such construction methods.
    Edited on 06/14/2008 9:36am
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    psychickiller

    [118]Jun 14, 2008
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    Wow. The end of the episode really did blow up our minds...

    The Final Cylon was not revealed. He is not in the fleet. Probably we have never seen him before, because I can't think of some dead character that I would care enough about.

    Earth is post-apocalyptic, after been nuked completely and the 13th tribe was destroyed. All that's left is ruins, dust, and radiation.

    So what now? Where will they go? What hope is there for them, to find a new home? To end the war with the Cylons?

    "All this has happened before, and will happen again."
    There are no longer 13 seperated tribes. They will find a new planet to live on, their 'New Kobol'.
    Someone is pulling the strings... Be it 'God', be it 'The Final Cylon'. There's definitely a destiny for both Humans and Cylons.

    Don't forget about the Opera House.... It's there, right on Earth. Will they look for it? Will they find anything except for blackened dirt?

    Will we survive until 2009 without having such answers questioned? Indeed, such wait happened before, and it will happen again. Just one, final, last time.
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    hazelnut144

    [119]Jun 14, 2008
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    Starbuck is ruled out, since she was in the fleet, and D'Anna said that the fifth is not in the fleet. I also don't think it is anyone on the baseship. Technically, you could say that the baseship was part of the fleet at that point, and my impression is that it is someone who died, or perhaps is already on Earth. As to it being Baltar, no. Just no. Like I have always said, he and Caprica were always supposed to be the parents of the new race of the human/cylon hybrids, which makes it seem like one is a cylon, and one is a human. And I agree with 123Home123. D'Anna's reaction is one of a lover.

    One of my friends is convinced that they land in New York as well. I guess he recognized parts of it. And I do find that a little irritating that they always seem to land in the US. I mean, yes I know it's a US show and all, but unless they put the Statue of Liberty or something, not everyone will recognize it. Although I will give them a break if it turns out they were making a "Planet of the Apes" reference. I agree with one of the earlier posters though that it would have fit better with the show's mythology for them to land in Greece or something. Someone else suggested the Colosseum, which would be interesting, and something that everyone would recognize. Of course, it might not be our Earth. As in it might have differences. As for the finale possibly being extended into three episodes, WONDERFUL! More BSG. And one of the tv movies has been given the go?? Sweet.
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    wrathloki

    [120]Jun 14, 2008
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    Wow, what a great episode. So to all you who think they landed in modern or future earth I wouldn't be so sure of that yet. Given 50-100,000 years, all signs of a civilization except for stone and a few other types materials with a long half-life would be all gone. Maybe the writers are going for the idea that the fleet started what eventually turned out to be our civilization. There are a great deal of people on this earth who think that a past advanced civilization may have existed and there's a good amount of evidence to suggest that it may have been possible. I think we should still keep our minds open on this.

    Edit: Oh, and I also thought it was new york at first, but that island is WAY too small to be New York, try again.

    Edited on 06/14/2008 9:41am
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