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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Revelations" (U.S. air date 6/13/08) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of nottynotme

    nottynotme

    [121]Jun 14, 2008
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    This thought popped in my head, noticed everything in the "earth" scenes was black, the ruins.(I know if it was old what other color might it be?)Anyways I happened to have watched the movie black rain lately, and the Japanese star that lived thru Hiroshima nuclear bombings mentioned the black rain covered everything. The Nuclear rains. Just mentioning this to go towards the theory that some kind of nuclear disaster happened.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [122]Jun 14, 2008
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    I'm not sure the Colosseum would have the same emotional impact for many viewers. It's not something many people will recognize as readily as an American landmark. Even if they do, it might not resonate emotionally as much as a U.S. structure.

    I suddenly thought about the Miniseries again, about how Ronald Moore used elements of the reaction to the 9/11 attacks for the script. In light of that, it could make more sense for the fleet to land in the ruins of NYC. That completes the circle, from the 9/11 references in the Miniseries all the way through the (possible) New York reference in the Season 4 mid-season finale.

    I'm guessing that this question will spark as many theories, analyses and guesses that the identity of the final Cylon has. There will be at least six months of waiting (excluding the webisodes) so maybe some New York City residents can look through that final scene a few times to see if the layout approximates that of the site of the Brooklyn Bridge.

    A good clue is that small structure in the foreground that looks like it could be a ruined temple. Helo and Athena are standing in front of it after having walked past the other people. Then Kara turns around after we see the look of exhaustion and utter disappointment on her face. She walks toward the structure. It has stone walls that feature rounded arches and thick columns. And then there's that collapsed roof with the 5 or six thick beams and a dome-shaped cap on the top where all the beams meet. Does anyone recognize that building? It's not the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco although it has a similar shape.

    The bridge and the buildings in the background were made with reinforced concrete. You can see the rebars protruding from the concrete. This further rules out the possibility that this is an ancient city (ancient in our timeline).

    -----------------

    EDIT: We can't really see the entire island so it's not clear how big or small that island is. Some of the buildings in the distance are obscured by fog. I just looked at the final scene 4 more times. It doesn't confirm or rule out NYC as the location.

    The Geiger counter at the beginning of the final scene is a clear sign that the area is radioactive. We were meant to focus on that aspect.
    Edited on 06/14/2008 10:02am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of psychickiller

    psychickiller

    [123]Jun 14, 2008
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    I really don't think the whole deal with Earth is complicated... It's just what it seems. Humanity destroyed itself in a nuclear war, not Cylones. This is the not-so-far-away future, and not a distant past or a distant future, with the 13th tribe colonizing other planets.
    If you ask me, this has the most impact. For 3 and a half seasons we have been dreaming about Earth and the peace that the 12 tribes will find... And no there's no hope.
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  • Avatar of nottynotme

    nottynotme

    [124]Jun 14, 2008
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    psychickiller wrote:
    I really don't think the whole deal with Earth is complicated... It's just what it seems. Humanity destroyed itself in a nuclear war, not Cylones. This is the not-so-far-away future, and not a distant past or a distant future, with the 13th tribe colonizing other planets.
    If you ask me, this has the most impact. For 3 and a half seasons we have been dreaming about Earth and the peace that the 12 tribes will find... And no there's no hope.

    Ok so the story might go in a very dark direction, but how dark.
    Are there some survivors? Heck even in the terminator universe man sturggled on. Will they find some human society, or will they stumble on toasters. Or worse will they stumlbe on cylon society with enslaved humans?
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  • Avatar of MikaWasHere

    MikaWasHere

    [125]Jun 14, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    A good clue is that small structure in the foreground that looks like it could be a ruined temple. Helo and Athena are standing in front of it after having walked past the other people. Then Kara turns around after we see the look of exhaustion and utter disappointment on her face. She walks toward the structure. It has stone walls that feature rounded arches and thick columns. And then there's that collapsed roof with the 5 or six thick beams and a dome-shaped cap on the top where all the beams meet. Does anyone recognize that building?


    It's the temple from the book. We see it's drawn picture at the beginning of the episode when Apollo browses thru President Roslins book... So no, the place is'nt "contemporary earth" if there's Kobol temples and stuff.
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  • Avatar of ZakParker

    ZakParker

    [126]Jun 14, 2008
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    What if they landed in the pre-greek era and become the gods the greeks praise (Athena, Apollo, Hera etc.)??

    Would be kind of a nice twist.

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  • Avatar of orxis

    orxis

    [127]Jun 14, 2008
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    nomulus wrote:

    And there is a contradiction in your statement when you said that you attest to it not being a recognisable version of Athens, but you also claim that the cities would be unrecognisable in a future centuries from now.

    No contradiction at all. I am saying it is not any version of Athens that has existed up to now. I am not excluding the possibility it is some future version.

    Edited on 06/14/2008 10:26am
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [128]Jun 14, 2008
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    I was wondering about the book that Lee was looking at in the beginning of the episode. It could easily be that it is the "Temple of Aurora". I was thinking that it is quite possible that this is not exactly Earth as we know it. In the same way that there are little differences in the 12 Colonies (paper without corners, Morpha instead of Morphine, frak, etc.) it makes some sort of sense that maybe this isn't exactly our Earth.

    And in response to 123Home123, I'm think that it maybe shouldn't have necessarily been an American landmark. I mean, I do understand, this IS an American show, but they have lots of viewers in Canada and the UK as well. On the other hand, the fact that there is so much debate about what city this is, might mean that it was not supposed to be an immediately recognized place. Because if it IS New York, I think that the Statue of Liberty would have been there, since everyone would then be able to recognize it.

    Edited on 06/14/2008 10:38am
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  • Avatar of undinechan

    undinechan

    [129]Jun 14, 2008
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    A couple shots from the last 10 min would make great desktop wallpapers, the fleet in orbit around earth, all the main characters standing around on earth.

    What I want to know is, where the heck did they get those new landing craft? When their going down to earth, you can see a bunch of new ships, they arent Raptors, they aren't Vipers, but its definitely a colonial design. Where did these ship come from and why havent we seen them before now?

    Questions I still have:

    Ok, now what?

    What's up with Baltar? Ie, the Six in his head, the Baltar in his head, why is he Jesus?

    What about the other Cylons? The Cavils and whatnot?

    Is Rosalin ever actually going to kick the bucket? She's been circling the drain for a long time.

    Who is number 5?

    Why is earth so toasty?

    There's still a lot of stuff for that last half season.

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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [130]Jun 14, 2008
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    Don't forget about Hera and the opera house storyline.
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  • Avatar of orxis

    orxis

    [131]Jun 14, 2008
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    I feel obliged to point out something that seems to have escaped serious suspicion so far: De'Anna's statement about the 5th Cylon could well be false, in an attempt for her to gain some advantage that only she understands. Indeed, after all the anticipation of the final Cylon reveal and the stated opinions of the other characters of the show that all 5 Cylons are in the human fleet, De'Anna's statement sounded extremely suspicious to me when she first made it. I sincerely expected up to the last minute that we would be shown a reason for what a believed to be this false statement, and I am still not entirely convinced the show isn't going that way at some point.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [132]Jun 14, 2008
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    Yeah, it is the Temple of Aurora, or at least one building at the temple complex. I just looked at that scene in slow motion. Lee flips through the pages of the book of Scriptures (from the Scrolls of Pythia). We can see a second drawing behind the main map. It depicts a smaller building with an open-air construction. There are four vertical posts maybe 25 feet high. There are no walls. The posts support a circular roof shaped like a flattened dome. There are steps leading up to the building.

    Then Lee flips back to the map that shows the entire temple complex. Kara says it's the Temple of Aurora. Lee says it's on Earth.

    So it does seem that the Earth that the fleet found is not exactly our own Earth. This opens up the possibility that this is an Earth from our ancient past, one with advanced technology and construction methods. They worshiped Aurora and probably the other gods as well.

    Or it could still be a future Earth. Maybe the 13th tribe arrived later in our history and brought with them their religion. Then they eventually destroyed themselves in a nuclear war. Or...

    It's getting confusing. Despite the enormous revelation of the location of Earth, there is still so much that needs to be explored and explained. So the writers tricked us into thinking that the story was almost over.

    According to some earlier reports, episode 10 and 11 would have served as the emergency finales to the series if the writers' strike had forced the cancellation of the series. Based on just this episode, it would have been quite a dark and depressing ending. And I'm not sure they would have been able to disclose the identity of the final Cylon by episode 11. (That's just a guess. I haven't read any spoilers for future episodes.)

    ***

    Re the other landing ships, those could be civilian craft. We don't always see the smaller civilian ships up close.
    Edited on 06/14/2008 11:05am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of eurokomitet

    eurokomitet

    [133]Jun 14, 2008
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    Hey, all. I don't think I've posted on this forum before, so hello to everyone.
    I was just reading the debates over what city they are in in the final scene. I don't think it is supposed to be any city in particular. And not to be too obvious to things, but it looks remarkably like a bombed out version of downtown Vancouver seen from a beach to the south of the city. This would make sense as the series is partly filmed in Vancouver, right? Anyway, just wanted to throw in that the city looks like Vancouver. Of course, there are no old temples (that I know of) on the beaches south of the city.
    That being said, I don't think we're supposed to think that the thirteenth tribe was centered on the Pacific coast of Canada, so I imagine the city is supposed to be a relatively generic post-nuclear holocaust city. Maybe the writers will turn it into a significant site later on, but I don't think it is supposed to be a definite recognizable place right now.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [134]Jun 14, 2008
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    I like the idea that maybe the 13th tribe came to Earth, and changed it, but eventually they destroyed themselves. Because I'm really starting to think that it is not exactly our Earth. That just seems much too straightforward for BSG.

    Well then 11 is probably going to be even more intense. Although it will be interesting to see what they felt they HAD to reveal if the series was forced to an abrupt ending.

    It being Vancouver, while pretty unlikely, would still be pretty amazing. Maybe the thirteenth tribe liked the Canadians better? But I agree that it is probably not supposed to be any specific city. Otherwise they probably would have shown a very recognizable landmark.

    Edited on 06/14/2008 11:01am
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  • Avatar of Agent-930

    Agent-930

    [136]Jun 14, 2008
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    Vincent2013 wrote:

    Okay I liked th episode as a whole but the ending for me was a drag, thats what happens when they build speculation about the final cylon and then dont show them. It was a letdown, but Im sure that when I watch the episode again I will love it.

    Did anyone notice that D,Anna said the the fifth was not with the fleet, it could only mean that they were on the baseship already, and I think its Baltar for the simple fact that every time D,'Anna sees him her eyes light up. Oh and was the six on earth Caprica Six, and what will Baltar do when he finds out that she is pregnant with Sauls baby, Well at least my fall shows will tide me over until it returns.



    Not exactly. The Fifth Cylon is either:

    1. On the baseship, as you indicated.
    2. Once among the human fleet, but now dead.
    3. Once among the humans, and believed to be dead. 4. An altogether new character we haven't seen yet.

    If the Fifth was on the baseship, then my money's on Baltar, like you said. If the Fifth is a human that is now dead, then the Fifth could be "alive" (in the sense that the other Cylon models have duplicates of themselves all over the place) on Earth or elsewhere. (My guess is, on Earth.) The question then becomes, who is/was it? It's also possible that the Fifth is someone who was among the fleet, but whom the humans think is dead, but who actually somehow managed to "escape" being dead and got away and went to Earth or somewhere.

    Possibilities - Ellen Tigh, Zak Adama, Billy, Elosha the priestess, Helena Cain. If the Fifth is a new character that will be introduced in the series next season, then the real mystery is -- what is this person's function? Is it the leader of Earth? A religious figure? A military general? Adam? Eve? Jesus? Moses? Count Iblis? Who?

    My money is on it being Elosha. I started thinking it could be Elosha last week when Laura Roslin was having those mid-Jump visions on the baseship and was seeing Elosha.

    Think of it this way -- all the four members of the Final Five are in key positions as a "right-hand man." Saul Tigh - "right-hand" to the Admiral of the Fleet
    Sam Anders - "right-hand" to the CAG (Starbuck)
    Chief Tyrol - "right-hand" to the Non-Coms
    Tory - "right-hand" to the President

    The only other significant "faction" within the human fleet that has no Cylon over them is the religion. If Elosha is the Fifth, then every aspect of colonial life is presided over / watched by one of the Final Five, and the religious guidance toward fulfillment of the prophecies is coming from a Cylon. Look at it this way
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [137]Jun 14, 2008
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    Yeah me and my friend came up with Elosha a while ago, but someone on the forum pointed out that a lot of people wouldn't really remember Elosha all that well. Because she wasn't really THAT main a character. But now that they reintroduced her, she is a possibility, although my money is on Zak.
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  • Avatar of oz_island

    oz_island

    [138]Jun 14, 2008
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    A couple of comments:

    1) Didn't Moore say in an interview that the fifth Cylon would be revealed by mid season?
    2) The 5th Cylon can not be the viper...D'Anna saw five human figures in her vision.
    3) I would be very disappointed if the 5th Cylon is someone that we do not know unless they blow us away somehow with the reveal.
    4) The 5th Cylon is not on the base ship. If he/she/it was, D'Anna would have no reason not to reveal him/her/it.
    5) I believe they are on Earth. I also believe that Starbuck's first visit to it is why the planet is desolate.
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  • Avatar of CesarinPillin

    CesarinPillin

    [139]Jun 14, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    I don't think the final Cylon is already dead. Then why would it matter whether they found him/her or not? At the same time, since they have already found Earth, what is the significance of the final Cylon? Why do they need to identify and find him or her? Will that individual lead them somewhere else or reveal the nature of God/the gods? There's still quite a bit to learn in the final 10 (12?) episodes next year.


    maybe.. he knows what happened to earth ?
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