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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion-"Sine Qua Non" (U.S. air date 5/30/08) (U.S. spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [41]May 30, 2008
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    I liked it didn't bother me at all it's was a building episode after all and setup for the rest of the season they did. I liked Bills decision and his scenes with Ty were great. Bout the only thing I didn't like was the Athena story other than her getting tossed in jail for her unnecessary murder. It was nice to see the lawyer again and i'm skeptical about next weeks preview with Rosalyn but i'm sure next week will be a better.
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  • Avatar of Femvamp

    Femvamp

    [42]May 30, 2008
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    Favorite part was watching Tigh's face when Bill was telling him how much he has changed. The conversation was priceless.
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [43]May 30, 2008
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    As I've said in my review...not the greatest, but not as bad as some here make out.

    True, Lee Adama's appointment was a foregone conclusion - and twas a shame Zarek was reduced to a bit player for this to be achieved - BUT - there is a potential payoff in this IF there is room for the writers to follow through. As Lampkin surmises from the start, and his show-down with Lee demonstrates, there is far more to Leeland Joseph Adama than we have so far seen, and Roslin - should she return - could well find it much harder to kick his butt than some have suggested.

    The revelations around Tigh and Caprica Six are highly interesting and could - again were there time - throw an interesting new spin on things. Cylons reproducing via "natural" birth....? So much for the need for human intervention and hybrids such as Hera and Nicky....Also, his new position looks very much set to test Tigh's resolve / mettle in ways that wouldn't otherwise be possible - up to and possibily including relinquishing command once more on Adama's return.

    Romo Lampkin's return is welcome. The jury is still very much out on him being the 5th Cylon, but if the comments from RDM are true - that an established lead character is on the final Cylon, that my money still ress on Romo. His scenes also made up for the otherwise VERY choppy editing...the symbolism of his cat was beautifully handled and such a careful visual cue / clue that all was not well with the venerable Mr. Lampkin. And if you don't get what I mean - go back and watch the episode carefully; you'll see that the cat is only EVER seen by Lampkin, and is totally absent from wider shots involving Lee Adama, up to and including the fact that Lee sits down directly on the spot where the cat had been curled a second before in close-up!

    Again, given the momentum slowly gained over the first 4 episodes of season IV, it's hard to comprehend another set-up after the stunning events of the last two episodes in particular, and knowing what is to come next week. In this, one cannot help be think the writers could have handled things better.

    But that said, it's still watchable - and even enjoyable.

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  • Avatar of Hoeech

    Hoeech

    [44]May 30, 2008
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    Why is it that the higher ranking people in this fleet are permitted to abandon their posts and their responsibilities in times of crisis because they feel they need some "Me-time"? Lee did it to pursue a career in politics when the fleet desperately needs pilots and now Admiral Adama relinquishes command during a time when the president and HALF THE DEFENSE FORCE is missing! If they wish to continue running their lives in the same manner as they did before the Cylon attack on the colonies, they would both have been court-marshaled.

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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [45]May 30, 2008
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    Hoeech wrote:

    Why is it that the higher ranking people in this fleet are permitted to abandon their posts and their responsibilities in times of crisis because they feel they need some "Me-time"? Lee did it to pursue a career in politics when the fleet desperately needs pilots and now Admiral Adama relinquishes command during a time when the president and HALF THE DEFENSE FORCE is missing! If they wish to continue running their lives in the same manner as they did before the Cylon attack on the colonies, they would both have been court-marshaled.

    Lee's decision is less defensible, but I agree with the Admiral's decision. He was wasting valuable resources and putting the entire fleet at risk because of his personal feelings for Roslin. The government has mechanisms to cover for the loss of a President, but staying in one place for too long and wasting fuel is indefensible. Adama made the correct choice to relinquish command until he gets a hold of himself, but staying back alone might be crazy. It makes for a good storyline, plus I like to see Tigh in control again. He failed miserably the first time but he is a different man now. I actually have a lot of confidence that he wont blow it all up.
    Edited on 05/30/2008 9:20pm
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  • Avatar of Hoeech

    Hoeech

    [46]May 30, 2008
    • member since: 03/27/04
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    mialza wrote:
    Hoeech wrote:

    Why is it that the higher ranking people in this fleet are permitted to abandon their posts and their responsibilities in times of crisis because they feel they need some "Me-time"? Lee did it to pursue a career in politics when the fleet desperately needs pilots and now Admiral Adama relinquishes command during a time when the president and HALF THE DEFENSE FORCE is missing! If they wish to continue running their lives in the same manner as they did before the Cylon attack on the colonies, they would both have been court-marshaled.

    Lee's decision is less defensible, but I agree with the Admiral's decision. He was wasting valuable resources and putting the entire fleet at risk because of his personal feelings for Roslin. The government has mechanisms to cover for the loss of a President, but staying in one place for too long and wasting fuel is indefensible. Adama made the correct choice to relinquish command until he gets a hold of himself, but staying back alone might be crazy. It makes for a good storyline, plus I like to see Tigh in control again. He failed miserably the first time but he is a different man now. I actually have a lot of confidence that he wont blow it all up.


    Sorry, mialza, but I don't buy it. Admiral Adama is career military with over 40 years in. An essential part of being a soldier is being able to put your personal feelings aside. That quality is even more essential in a commander. The job must be his sole priority given that the safety and survival of his species is on the line. Add to that the fact that the last time Tigh was in command, he issued a martial law decree which resulted in the deaths of several civilians. Regardless of how much personal growth he may have experienced on New Caprica, he would never be trusted with full command again. It's already remarkable that he wasn't demoted....heavily.
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  • Avatar of gcswift2

    gcswift2

    [47]May 30, 2008
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    First of all I think you are all wrong!!!

    There was only one problem with this episode and that was the trailer from last week. It gave away too much and spoiled the episode. Most of the major plot points were shown in the teaser for this episode. I think they might have spoiled next weeks episode, but I hope not,

    This episode was a transition episode and the producers decided to keep it simple. I'll have to look closer to figure out if I missed any obvious clues as to whats next, but this episode was really for the fans and not for newbies. I shudder to think how good this one could have been if they didn't have to slow the story to explain what happening over and over.

    Romo with Adama on that catwalk was a great moment. You could see Adama mentally stepping off his pedestal and coming back down. That was cool.

    Quick question... When Sharon got pregnant she knew automatically. Does Six know? and if so was that the reason behind the love question? Does she love Saul, What about Baltar, and where are we going with this? Will Tigh release his favorite Cylon now? When Baltar returns what happens to Hera?

    Zarek once asked the question "Will there ever be a time when the fleet will be commanded by someone not named Adama?". We've seen the answer.

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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [48]May 30, 2008
    • member since: 04/24/05
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    Wow this was a rather pivitol episode in the series. First off Six is pregnant with a little Tigh-fighter (I've decided to patent that so no one steal it ) And then after Saul and Adama have a short fight they just get over it showing how strong their friendship is that they can say what they said and then just move past it. And I loved how each one asked the other what they were going to do with their women! LOL Priceless.

    But I am so looking forward to when Adama finds out that Saul is a cylon and that he's kept it from him that should be one heck of a show.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [49]May 30, 2008
    • member since: 05/01/06
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    Now that spoiler ban is off; Six is PREGNANT?! That was a huge shock moment. And I agree with one of the previous posters who said that the look on Tigh's face when Adama was saying that he had changed was priceless. Especially because he has been trying so hard to stay the same man. And now he is in command, so that should be interesting. And for some reason, I found that "You know how many times I've had to repair this thing?" incredibly hilarious.

    Adama going after Roslin is very sweet, and a bit reminiscent of "You Can't Go Home Again", though this time he is listening to Roslin's advice and not putting the whole fleet at risk.

    I also LOVED the "What do you hear Starbuck" part. And speaking of Starbuck, she and Lee are actually in the same room! That is my one complaint with this season. Kara and Lee have had a total of three conversations; the one over the wireless when she first comes back, the one when they land and he hugs her, and the one in the cell. Not one word since then. Although they have had two eye-conversations I guess. But still. I really do miss that part.

    Lee, well yes it would be obvious that it was going to be him even if people didn't mention it from the teaser last week. And as to people in this thread, please spoiler tag anything to do with the teaser, because a lot of people aren't watching them since they are giving too much away.

    But the thing with Lance was interesting. And having Jake return just made my day. That along with Lee's full name being Leland.

    Adama and Romo's conversation was wonderfully done, as were all the Bill and Tigh scenes.

    Edited on 05/30/2008 10:59pm
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  • Avatar of nottynotme

    nottynotme

    [50]May 31, 2008
    • member since: 05/28/08
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    Things I noticed which should be in future scenarios. The hand over the dying skinjob 6, who's hand was in that surgical glove. A dying cylon seems to get comfort while dying with some physical touch with another cylon. I do not believe the reactions of "The Old Man" to be part of the the character over the last three seasons. Who here honestly believes his actions, knowing every possible plot twist. His base emotional, and responsibility morality would dicatate a different course of action that is happening. We have proven that a skiin-job and one of the "hidden" cylons can create a baby. Lee is starting to look like "Danny Terio' from Dance Fever with his ongoing wordrobes. Along with the hands in the "POCKETS", I am waiting for the right hand to go pointing into the air. Bye

    "A word to the wise sometimes it's better to settle with what you already got" moving point of episode.

    Edited on 05/31/2008 12:11am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [51]May 31, 2008
    • member since: 06/15/05
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    Hoeech wrote:
    mialza wrote:
    Hoeech wrote:

    Why is it that the higher ranking people in this fleet are permitted to abandon their posts and their responsibilities in times of crisis because they feel they need some "Me-time"? Lee did it to pursue a career in politics when the fleet desperately needs pilots and now Admiral Adama relinquishes command during a time when the president and HALF THE DEFENSE FORCE is missing! If they wish to continue running their lives in the same manner as they did before the Cylon attack on the colonies, they would both have been court-marshaled.

    Lee's decision is less defensible, but I agree with the Admiral's decision. He was wasting valuable resources and putting the entire fleet at risk because of his personal feelings for Roslin. The government has mechanisms to cover for the loss of a President, but staying in one place for too long and wasting fuel is indefensible. Adama made the correct choice to relinquish command until he gets a hold of himself, but staying back alone might be crazy. It makes for a good storyline, plus I like to see Tigh in control again. He failed miserably the first time but he is a different man now. I actually have a lot of confidence that he wont blow it all up.
    Sorry, mialza, but I don't buy it. Admiral Adama is career military with over 40 years in. An essential part of being a soldier is being able to put your personal feelings aside. That quality is even more essential in a commander. The job must be his sole priority given that the safety and survival of his species is on the line. Add to that the fact that the last time Tigh was in command, he issued a martial law decree which resulted in the deaths of several civilians. Regardless of how much personal growth he may have experienced on New Caprica, he would never be trusted with full command again. It's already remarkable that he wasn't demoted....heavily.

    All this proves is that he is human. History is littered with the bodies of men sacrificed by delusional leaders. The difference is that, with the help of Lampkin, he was able to stop himself before he went too far. Had there been a higher ranking officer Adama would have been removed from command anyway for wasting vital resources. Since he is the highest ranking officer he is the one who must decide what is right for the betterment of the fleet, and in his state of mind he is not the one who should be leading. Once he realized he lost his objectivity he had three choices. One was to keep going, the second to stop caring and move on, and the third is to come to grips with his flaw and remove himself from a position that could endanger the fleet. In a perfect world he would have gone with the second choice, but as I said he is human. He found someone he loved, and in a universe with less then 40,000 people it is almost impossible to lose someone that close. You say his sole priority is to ensure the survival of the species. Isn't that the sole priority of everyman woman and child in the fleet? Can't he have the same emotional attachments that they all enjoy and nearly ever person desires regardless of whether or not they're in the military? Even with 40 years of military training he couldn't just turn off his feelings, and I doubt that any of us could under the extreme circumstances they live in.

    Also Adama has shown before the lengths he will go to find someone close to him. When Starbuck was lost in the first season he spent half of the fleets fuel and endangered the rest of the fleet by staying near where Cylons were spotted to find her. In a normal world he would have been severely punished for endangering the fate of the species that way. Flash back to this episode he was faced with a similar choice and instead of letting his feelings control him he chose to step aside. He felt that mentally he would not be able to properly command if he lost her. The proper thing to do would have been to temporarily step down, stay with the fleet, and until he regained control of his emotions serve in an advisory role to Tigh.

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  • Avatar of peteruspl

    peteruspl

    [52]May 31, 2008
    • member since: 12/30/06
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    IMO Admiral Adama behaviour doesn't show he's human, but he's a lousy commander. And less like show, more like prove again.

    He only recognizes reality of extreme danger when it's not any of his being sacrificed.Anything bad happening to Lee, Starbuck or Roslin and he's ready to go all the way even if he has to risk 40.000 remaining ppl. No wonder he was serving on a ship being decomissioned and turned into museum.

    Just look at his crooked judgement in this episode. He'd push all of his pilots into digging into still dangerous debris, but won't administer any harsh penalty on Athena for executing unarmed envoy from another party (while lot's of Colonials are on baseship). What would a rookie hear after asking "how do I get by under this command?"? I bet "Get into Old Man's radar, when he notices you, you'll be protected ever after.".

    This last decision was suprisingly good. He can't leave Roslin as a man, but can't squander lives of his crew as a commander. This way he can get out of colliding loyalties with honor.

    Leaving behind a line of beacons could do the trick too... fleet lost (questionable) benefit of his command, but also got very valuable confirmation that even the higher-ups do lay their lives on the line too, if they have too.

    BTW They'd leave a raptor behind, two jumps away from the fleet at given time it'd jump to raptor one jump away - and only then leave the beacon. So potential Cylons fallowing the trail would loose the track at least 2 jumps behind. And if they get Adama alive and get randevous coords of him - it's game over.

    @episode

    I don't think it was so bad, though Lee becoming a president could get 1 minute, not half of the episode. It was obvious. It was highly probable when he left fleet, and without Roslin around - certain.

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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [53]May 31, 2008
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    ^^^ That is what I'm saying. His greatest strength is also his greatest weakness. He derives his personal strength from his relationships with his loved ones, his family. In turn those below him have a sense of wellbeing and can look up to a strong likable leader. The problem is when something interferes with this relationship. When one of his loved ones is lost he lost he loses his objectivity and will endanger the fleet to fix his family, and if he is removed everything goes to hell under a differeent leader like Cain or Tigh. The fact that he finally realized this flaw means tht in time he might finally be able to not let it control him, just not yet.
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  • Avatar of peteruspl

    peteruspl

    [54]May 31, 2008
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    One thing I've omitted. There's also one more aspect to staying behind. It may also be his redemption for past "favours".
    It's not laid out straight in the open, but it doesn't have to be. If he's willing to risk his arse now by some measure it lightens impact of previous situations. Now other pilots may think that he did not use them like pawns sacrificed for a few ppl important to commandore. Even though in conflict of loyalties he chose "wrong" sometimes it was not becouse he has no regard for "unimportant" crew, but that they were guys to do the (not so important from fleets perspective) job - as now he is one.

    I think if I was one of the pilots on BSG I'd be enraged before, but would forgive him almost completely. And I'd expect that he saw his biggest flaw clearly now, so if he survives and gets control again he'll probably not do it again. With very limited number of optional commanders he'd still beat Tigh (unless he proves himself now as excellent admiral), or Starbuck...
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  • Avatar of Daxxanna

    Daxxanna

    [55]May 31, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    Only 2 more days until the U.S. airing. Then all spoilers from the episode will be allowed on the thread.

    As a continuing reminder, do not discuss any spoilers from the promo for the following episode in this thread. Thanks.

    And thanks to everyone for cooperating with the spoiler policy. It really does show that BSG fans are intelligent and thoughtful. I think the next 2 episodes may also air in the UK first. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.) If so, I think we should continue the current policy for the next 2 discussion threads. You can post general impressions of the episode before the U.S. premiere. If you really need to post a specific spoiler, please use the "spoiler" tags as some people have done already. Then other members can choose to read the spoiler or not while still being able to skim through this thread.

    Once the episode has aired in the U.S. Eastern Time Zone, then all spoilers from the episode may be discussed in the relevant discussion thread. Fortunately we only have to deal with this policy for two more weeks. (Wait, that means that there are only 2 more episodes this spring. Maybe I should have said "unfortunately"... )


    Does this mean we will be having a mid season break?? I hope not why ruin the flow with taking a break!!
    Edited on 05/31/2008 9:28am
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  • Avatar of Femvamp

    Femvamp

    [57]May 31, 2008
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    The more I think about it the more I like this episode. I can't exactly expain why, but I'll try.

    1. I love how it shows once again how deep the friendship goes between Tigh and Adama. It will be interesting to see the repercussions of Tigh getting Caprica Six pregnant and Adama finding out Tigh's a Final Fiver.

    2. I've always been a Adama/Roslin shipper so I was turning into a puddle when he finally verbalized his feelings for the woman. I don't think he's actually ever said it out loud before. "i can't live without her." I do buy him staying behind. despite what some people say he IS a good leader. Good enough to know that he lost all perspective and he needed to take a step back. He couldn't let her go but he couldn't take the fleet down with him so he made a difficult choice. It's what leaders do.

    3. Saul and Lee lead the fleet. I find this funny is so many ways. Saul has failed to lead before and Lee is a good leader but has a tendency to want to be everyones buddy. He has a tough time making the tough choices. Added to that Saul and Lee don't exactly get along. It will be fun to watch them (ahh reminds me of season 1 Adama/Roslin without the sexual tension).

    Ok that's whay I liked the episode. Yes, it screemed filler episode but filler episodes aren't always bad. Filler episode move the peices on the board without changing tha game. That's what this episode did.

    Edited on 05/31/2008 9:03am
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    bobsuncorp

    [58]May 31, 2008
    • member since: 08/28/07
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    Did anyone notice that just before she went EVA to the abandoned raptor, Racetrack said.. well lets just say that it wasn't Frakkin. I think the editors and censors must have missed that one!
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  • Avatar of Lokutes

    Lokutes

    [59]May 31, 2008
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    The main thing that annoyed me was Starbuck in the episode, she was going psycho trying to find earth and trying to get the Basestar back to the fleet, but when it jumped away she didnt say or show any reaction.....
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    tribalchic

    [60]May 31, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    Only 2 more days until the U.S. airing. Then all spoilers from the episode will be allowed on the thread. As a continuing reminder, do not discuss any spoilers from the promo for the following episode in this thread. Thanks. And thanks to everyone for cooperating with the spoiler policy. It really does show that BSG fans are intelligent and thoughtful. I think the next 2 episodes may also air in the UK first. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.) If so, I think we should continue the current policy for the next 2 discussion threads. You can post general impressions of the episode before the U.S. premiere. If you really need to post a specific spoiler, please use the "spoiler" tags as some people have done already. Then other members can choose to read the spoiler or not while still being able to skim through this thread. Once the episode has aired in the U.S. Eastern Time Zone, then all spoilers from the episode may be discussed in the relevant discussion thread. Fortunately we only have to deal with this policy for two more weeks. (Wait, that means that there are only 2 more episodes this spring. Maybe I should have said "unfortunately"... )

    I don't think thats entirely fair. The UK allways gets the bad end of the deal when it comes to US shows being airred later, for once they actually don't have to wait and they can't even openly discuss the episode.Think about it, when we see the episodes first we jump right in with our thoughts immediatly after without any regards to the majority of the UK population who has to wait a couple days, they simply have to avoid the threads since nothing is catered to them.

    why can't there be two separate discussion threads 1 for US,1 for UK?...... that way they can discuss it openly as can we and no one will be spoiled.

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