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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion-"Sine Qua Non" (U.S. air date 5/30/08) (U.S. spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [61]May 31, 2008
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    My question is why would anyone come into a thread about an episode and not expect to be spoiled. Even though the vast majority of viewers are in the US, including me, the Brits should be allowed to talk about the episode when they see it, plus all the Americans, like me, who found a way to watch it early. Just put a disclaimer in the thread name or first post stating that some have seen the episode early and spoilers will be written. Anyway the only things written before the episode is aired are peoples expectations and those are not as important as the reactions of those who saw it.
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  • Avatar of SweetPeaSurry

    SweetPeaSurry

    [62]May 31, 2008
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    tribalchic wrote:
    I don't think thats entirely fair. The UK allways gets the bad end of the deal when it comes to US shows being airred later, for once they actually don't have to wait and they can't even openly discuss the episode.Think about it, when we see the episodes first we jump right in with our thoughts immediatly after without any regards to the majority of the UK population who has to wait a couple days, they simply have to avoid the threads since nothing is catered to them.

    simulacra- wrote:
    Hmm, so spoilers are allowed after the US show has aired but not the british, interesting

    I would like to point out the fact that shows like Dr. Who, Robin Hood, and Torchwood air in the UK long before they do in the US, you're not required to hold your spoilers until they air in the US. In light of that, I respect the annoyance you must feel, however, I think we should stick to the topic of the episode.

    Thank you.

    Edited on 05/31/2008 4:06pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of VanGriffin

    VanGriffin

    [63]May 31, 2008
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    Lokutes wrote:
    The main thing that annoyed me was Starbuck in the episode, she was going psycho trying to find earth and trying to get the Basestar back to the fleet, but when it jumped away she didnt say or show any reaction.....


    Agreed, but the episode was an Adama base storyline. Starbuck was only there for a barely a minute. I do hope we see more of Adama and the former President. It would be a shame if Tigh actually found Earth without them.
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  • Avatar of VanGriffin

    VanGriffin

    [64]May 31, 2008
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    SweetPeaSurry wrote:

    tribalchic wrote:
    I don't think thats entirely fair. The UK allways gets the bad end of the deal when it comes to US shows being airred later, for once they actually don't have to wait and they can't even openly discuss the episode.Think about it, when we see the episodes first we jump right in with our thoughts immediatly after without any regards to the majority of the UK population who has to wait a couple days, they simply have to avoid the threads since nothing is catered to them.

    simulacra- wrote:
    Hmm, so spoilers are allowed after the US show has aired but not the british, interesting

    I would like to point out the fact that shows like Dr. Who, Robin Hood, and Torchwood air in the UK long before they do in the US, you're not required to hold your spoilers until they air in the US. In light of that, I respect the annoyance you must feel, however, I think we should stick to the topic of the episode.

    Thank you.



    Just wanted to note that my friends in the UK usually download the episodes, so there's little point of NOT discussing the current one. However the North American produced shows do have a shorter time before airing in the UK. The other way around is tedious.
    =)
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  • Avatar of tribalchic

    tribalchic

    [65]May 31, 2008
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    SweetPeaSurry wrote:

    tribalchic wrote:
    I don't think thats entirely fair. The UK allways gets the bad end of the deal when it comes to US shows being airred later, for once they actually don't have to wait and they can't even openly discuss the episode.Think about it, when we see the episodes first we jump right in with our thoughts immediatly after without any regards to the majority of the UK population who has to wait a couple days, they simply have to avoid the threads since nothing is catered to them.

    simulacra- wrote:
    Hmm, so spoilers are allowed after the US show has aired but not the british, interesting

    I would like to point out the fact that shows like Dr. Who, Robin Hood, and Torchwood air in the UK long before they do in the US, you're not required to hold your spoilers until they air in the US. In light of that, I respect the annoyance you must feel, however, I think we should stick to the topic of the episode.

    Thank you.

    im not annoyed, this usually dosen't even apply to me since i live in the US.

    British fans in the Torchwood forum are getting particularly upset on this subject because they feel this site (as a whole) is catered towards the american audience and seeing the new BSG spoiler rule makes me totally understand why they are so upset on this subject.

    sorry for getting off topic but this should be addressed.

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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [66]May 31, 2008
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    VanGriffin wrote:
    SweetPeaSurry wrote:

    tribalchic wrote:
    I don't think thats entirely fair. The UK allways gets the bad end of the deal when it comes to US shows being airred later, for once they actually don't have to wait and they can't even openly discuss the episode.Think about it, when we see the episodes first we jump right in with our thoughts immediatly after without any regards to the majority of the UK population who has to wait a couple days, they simply have to avoid the threads since nothing is catered to them.

    simulacra- wrote:
    Hmm, so spoilers are allowed after the US show has aired but not the british, interesting

    I would like to point out the fact that shows like Dr. Who, Robin Hood, and Torchwood air in the UK long before they do in the US, you're not required to hold your spoilers until they air in the US. In light of that, I respect the annoyance you must feel, however, I think we should stick to the topic of the episode.

    Thank you.

    Just wanted to note that my friends in the UK usually download the episodes, so there's little point of NOT discussing the current one. However the North American produced shows do have a shorter time before airing in the UK. The other way around is tedious. =)

    Doesn't the thread title say "spoiler"? Regardless of when you're watching the show, if you don't want spoilers, don't look at the thread until after you've seen the episode, regardless of where and when in the world you get to watch it.

    That's what I do. Mind you, the plot is starting to get a little predictable. Eventually spoilers may be irrelevant.

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  • Avatar of SweetPeaSurry

    SweetPeaSurry

    [67]May 31, 2008
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    About the cat


    ***SPOILER***


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  • Avatar of SweetPeaSurry

    SweetPeaSurry

    [68]May 31, 2008
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    oldsage wrote:
    VanGriffin wrote:
    SweetPeaSurry wrote:

    tribalchic wrote:
    I don't think thats entirely fair. The UK allways gets the bad end of the deal when it comes to US shows being airred later, for once they actually don't have to wait and they can't even openly discuss the episode.Think about it, when we see the episodes first we jump right in with our thoughts immediatly after without any regards to the majority of the UK population who has to wait a couple days, they simply have to avoid the threads since nothing is catered to them.

    simulacra- wrote:
    Hmm, so spoilers are allowed after the US show has aired but not the british, interesting

    I would like to point out the fact that shows like Dr. Who, Robin Hood, and Torchwood air in the UK long before they do in the US, you're not required to hold your spoilers until they air in the US. In light of that, I respect the annoyance you must feel, however, I think we should stick to the topic of the episode.

    Thank you.

    Just wanted to note that my friends in the UK usually download the episodes, so there's little point of NOT discussing the current one. However the North American produced shows do have a shorter time before airing in the UK. The other way around is tedious. =)

    Doesn't the thread title say "spoiler"? Regardless of when you're watching the show, if you don't want spoilers, don't look at the thread until after you've seen the episode, regardless of where and when in the world you get to watch it.

    That's what I do. Mind you, the plot is starting to get a little predictable. Eventually spoilers may be irrelevant.

    Well yes it does ... but this thread isn't a thread specifically about spoilers, and utilizing the spoiler tags is common curtesy. Again, can we get back on topic? Please?

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  • Avatar of SweetPeaSurry

    SweetPeaSurry

    [69]May 31, 2008
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    VanGriffin wrote:
    Lokutes wrote:
    The main thing that annoyed me was Starbuck in the episode, she was going psycho trying to find earth and trying to get the Basestar back to the fleet, but when it jumped away she didnt say or show any reaction.....
    Agreed, but the episode was an Adama base storyline. Starbuck was only there for a barely a minute. I do hope we see more of Adama and the former President. It would be a shame if Tigh actually found Earth without them.

    See I was under the impression that Starbuck was relatively calm because she had 1. found the way to earth, 2. taken over the base ship, and 3. was ready to lead the fleet to earth once they discovered the final 5 cylons.

    Edited on 05/31/2008 7:49pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [70]May 31, 2008
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    As to the whole spoiler thing, I really don't know why you would go to a discussion of the next episode, before it airs, but that's just me. I do think that the discussions should be open to comments as soon as the episode officially airs somewhere.

    Back on topic. Something I found interesting was that in "You Can't Go Home Again", it was Roslin that pointed out to him that he was putting the whole fleet in jeopardy, Roslin that told him to stop endangering everyone. And then, when it's her who is in danger, he eventually decides to only risk himself. Just something I noticed.
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  • Avatar of Idbeolderifiwas

    Idbeolderifiwas

    [71]May 31, 2008
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    SweetPeaSurry wrote:

    About the cat

    I thought there were two cats. The live one, and the one he pulled out from under his bed. Keep in mind, I was runnin on 3 hrs of sleep after a 16 hr day, so I couldn't tell for sure. But Adama had seen him with the cat carrier, and you'd think if he had been carrying around a dead cat for so long it would begin to ... hmm ... smell a bit. So I think he kept the dead corpse in a box under his bunk, and had the live cat.

    I'm pretty sure there was only the one dead cat. If you watch closely, they only ever show Lampkin seeing the Cat, not Lee. In fact Lee actually sees the empty bowl and asks "Do you ever feed that thing" Which subtly indicates that the cat is dead, because he would have no need to feed a dead cat. Plus, at one point Lee is seen sitting in the spot where the cat was seen just a little bit before, because he the cat wasn't actually there.

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  • Avatar of weirdaaron

    weirdaaron

    [72]May 31, 2008
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    I feel like starbucks entire story arc ended very abruptly. Once they got back to the fleet, she hasn't talked about it, or mentioned it. Its like it never happened, and its kind of annoying.

    Otherwise, I liked this episode. Some surprises here and there, that I didn't see coming.
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  • Avatar of wowser147

    wowser147

    [73]May 31, 2008
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    I agree that Starbuck's story ended (I'd like to think that it's merely delayed and will resume very shortly!) rather suddenly. Hopefully we'll find out more about her soon...

    The cat thing definitely was confusing, but I liked the episode.
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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [74]May 31, 2008
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    I liked this episode. Granted, the Lee storyline was tedious and could have only lasted five minutes since it was obvious that Lee was the only one who could bridge the gap between the Quorum and Galactica. My only main qualm is WHY did Lampkin hold Lee at gunpoint? I understand that once his cat died he began to lose hope that things would get better. But he seemed to think all along that Lee would bring about a new hope among the Colonials.

    I hope Romo Lampkin gets to stick around for a little while longer to advise Lee. Lampkin always has such interesting perspectives on everything.

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    debbie13410

    [75]May 31, 2008
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    I wouldn't assume Tigh is the father of Six's child. Isn't this Six the one who had a sexual relationship with Baltar? And isn't Athenas vision about Six, Baltar and who we thought was Hera. Maybe her vision wasn't about Hera but Six's baby.
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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [76]May 31, 2008
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    That was a number of months ago that she last slept with Baltar and as we know from Athena Cylon's have the same incubation time humans do so the baby would be further along if it was Baltar's

    Deal with it her Death Star egg was invaded by a Tigh-fighter!
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    hazelnut144

    [77]Jun 1, 2008
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    I think that Caprica's pregnancy would have been apparent if the child was Baltar's long before now. I mean the Demetrius was gone for two months, and before that, it had been over half a season since Baltar was on the baseship. I'm pretty sure that it is Tigh's. Which is relatively creepy.
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    antdude

    [78]Jun 1, 2008
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    The episode was decent, but not great. I like the two leaders fighting. Poor boat.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [79]Jun 1, 2008
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    I got to the episode late. I finally watched it from the DVR recording. It was OK, not as bad as some people are saying. I was a little puzzled by the Adama-Tigh fight at first and even after thinking about it for a bit, it still comes across as strange.

    I was also thrown for a loop by the Lampkin-cat story element, as well as his sudden loss of control when he pulled the gun on Lee. That doesn't make sense to me. True, Lampkin has always been a sardonic and morose character, but a lunatic assassin? I'm not sure how I feel about that. Maybe I'll have clearer thoughts on it in a day or two.

    I did like Adama's realization that he had to resign, and his lone voyage in the Raptor, waiting for Roslin to return. It was the most human element of this episode. Some question whether Adama is a good leader. I think it's pretty clear that he has shown himself to be a strong individual but a flawed leader at the same time over the course of 3 1/2 seasons. He has done many things wrong. But we can't judge him based on our own standards or those that would apply to a "normal" war. As Lee said on the witness stand at Baltar's trial, they are not a civilization anymore. They are a gang. That might have been a slight exaggeration but he underlined a key point.

    Nothing is normal about this fleet. Their entire civilization is constantly on the brink of total annihilation and extinction. They have few resources and few options. Any civil war threatens their very lives by opening them up to a Cylon ambush with their guns aimed at one another. Adama and Tigh are far from perfect but we saw what one alternative would be -- Admiral Cain.

    We should keep in mind that what we are seeing is not the traditional sci-fi story of an all-powerful ship with a fleet made up of "the best of the best" like we see on shows like the Star Trek series and other franchises. Even in other shows where the main characters are outlaws or outsiders, viewers don't always get the sense that everything could go wrong in a heartbeat. We get that sense on BSG though. It almost always feels like everything could fly apart at the seams in a moment, and everyone could get slaughtered. That's what it feels like when Adama reveals his weaknesses.

    However, Adama has changed since Season 1. Back then, he risked the entire fleet in the desperate search to find Kara after she had crashed on that desolate planet. He learned his lesson from that time. So this time he resigned and stayed behind, risking only himself. But this isn't a neat little instructive tale, that we should learn our lessons and move on. No, Adama is still guided at times by his human emotions. It's realistic to see that he has finally found someone he is attached to romantically and is willing to risk his life for her. As others have noted on other threads, command can be a very lonely position, even more so in the unusual circumstances of a commander of a lone battle vessel with no permanent civilian society to return to. With only 39,000 people total, there really are limited opportunities for him to find a true soulmate. He has found such a person in Roslin, which he now realizes. So his decisions didn't bother me. They worked in a dramatic sense. Maybe they could have been built up a little more effectively, but that's a minor quibble.

    As for the dog, he was the same dog that we saw on New Caprica. Gaeta always overturned Jake's water bowl whenever he had a new document to smuggle to the Resistance. It was a signal to the Resistance to pick up the new documents. That's why Lee said that Jake was a member of the Resistance. (I don't know whether it was the same dog "actor" or not. UPDATE: Battlestar Wiki claims that the two dogs were of different species so apparently it's not the exact same dog, but a look-alike.)

    In all, I'd say this was a decent episode but not an outstanding episode.

    ----------

    A note about the spoiler policy: Since there are a few complaints, I thought I'd address this right here. As editor I often have to make specific decisions about the guide and the forum. I try to consider all the competing factors and arguments. I also realize that no matter what I decide, someone out there will complain. While I will take such complaints into consideration, I won't let one or two vocal complainers decide for me.

    I felt that since it would only be a 3-day wait for U.K. fans, the spoiler policy was the right one. As for those who complain that American fans already saw the episode prematurely too, no, I will not take that into consideration AT ALL. I will never make any concessions for people who have watched illegal downloads. I won't go out of my way to stop it, but it won't control any policies on this forum or guide.

    That's actually an issue I hadn't thought of last week. Opening up the thread to spoilers may provide an incentive for more people to watch illegal downloads in the U.S. Would this thread make or break BSG and put a huge dent in the viewer numbers? No, probably not, but it's about the principle of the matter. The illegal download angle makes it more clear to me that the current spoiler policy is the way to go. So I'm making an executive decision and maintaining that policy. No facilitation of illegal downloads, even if only indirectly.

    Besides, I've been informed by a U.K. fan on the other thread that Sky One is not showing BSG this Tuesday. So the next two episodes are going to air first in the U.S. anyway, making this whole discussion moot.
    Edited on 06/01/2008 11:10am
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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [80]Jun 1, 2008
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    I really liked this episode.

    The fight between Tigh and William wasn't too mystifying, they were just two old codger's who needed an excuse to relive their younger days in a bar-room fisticuff. I too loved the line; "You know how many times I've repaired this thing" and Tigh's look on his face when Adama said; "You changed". Logically, the fight may not have made sense, but we often get ourselves into illogical situations.

    When Galactica jumped into the aftermath of the Cylon battle, I was sort of hoping they'd make some effort to bring in those broken Vipers. Spare parts are hard to come by.

    After watching it a second time, I can pretty clearly see that Romo was the only one to see the cat. but the death of his cat (actually his wife's cat that he didn't like too much) causing him to loose all faith in humanity? Not sure I buy that except that it may have been a metaphor of his guilt at leaving his family behind.

    OK, so we work up the whole; "We must appoint another president palatable to William Adama" only to finally appoint one and William Adama leaves?!? That's a lot of angst to go through for nothing! Still, Lee would still be a better one to deal with Tigh, now that he's in command than Zarek. Especially when we see that Zarek had no ability to control the counsel.

    Mr BO

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