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Discussion - "Sometimes a Great Notion" (1/16/09)(Spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of dharmarose

    dharmarose

    [21]Jan 16, 2009
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    after dualla's death, i'm kind of thinking that she's the 5th cylon. mostly, because they never showed a close up of the locket she found. i'm thinking she saw herself in the pictures.
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  • Avatar of rslade70

    rslade70

    [22]Jan 16, 2009
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    ok...Let me see if I get this straight (and here is my speculation)....

    The "people" that lived on earth were cylons. Some kind of hybrid cylon (like the final five), but unlike the #1-8 hybrids. From what we can conclude, the hybrids built the centurions, went to war (perhaps) and nuked. We learn from the end from Ellen not to worry, they will be re-born (good piece of info there)....So....

    I assume that only 12 models were reborn? Then perhaps those models nuked the rest of earth or something else happened.

    The 12 models made their way to Caprica 2000 years ago. Humans lived there (most likely primitve). The 12 became The Gods. Others that made it were Zeus, etc. There was no longer a resurection ship or place for them, so if the gods (or 12 models) got killed or had a accident, they would then died. I assume they were seen as Gods from the people of Caprica with their knowledge of healing (medicine) and their technology they may have brought with them......

    5 of them broke apart from the 12 (the 5 that they do not speak of). Now...why do they not remember....perhaps the 7 of them tried to re-build the centurions (posing as human) or themselves again to resurect (which is why there are 7 models of hybrids). Perhaps the 5 wanted nothing to do with it (knowing what happened before) . Maybe the 5 had their memories reprogramed to forget, but it all came back to them when they went back to Earth.....

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  • Avatar of rslade70

    rslade70

    [23]Jan 16, 2009
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    rslade70 wrote:

    ok...Let me see if I get this straight (and here is my speculation)....

    The "people" that lived on earth were cylons. Some kind of hybrid cylon (like the final five), but unlike the #1-8 hybrids. From what we can conclude, the hybrids built the centurions, went to war (perhaps) and nuked. We learn from the end from Ellen not to worry, they will be re-born (good piece of info there)....So....

    I assume that only 12 models were reborn? Then perhaps those models nuked the rest of earth or something else happened.

    The 12 models made their way to Caprica 2000 years ago. Humans lived there (most likely primitve). The 12 became The Gods. Others that made it were Zeus, etc. There was no longer a resurection ship or place for them, so if the gods (or 12 models) got killed or had a accident, they would then died. I assume they were seen as Gods from the people of Caprica with their knowledge of healing (medicine) and their technology they may have brought with them......

    5 of them broke apart from the 12 (the 5 that they do not speak of). Now...why do they not remember....perhaps the 7 of them tried to re-build the centurions (posing as human) or themselves again to resurect (which is why there are 7 models of hybrids). Perhaps the 5 wanted nothing to do with it (knowing what happened before) . Maybe the 5 had their memories reprogramed to forget, but it all came back to them when they went back to Earth.....



    The more I think about my theory, the more I like it. Thinking again....12 Models from Earth made it to Capria. They became Gods. 7 Models of Hybrids, 7 Models from Earth not included in the 5. The 7 Hybrids that we know, believe in One True God. Why? Because they know deep down the Gods were not Gods. But lets not forget....God Made Man in his own image....Meaning, the 7 Models from Earth, re-created the Capria Hybrids in their own image, with their memories (hence Dianna remembering when dying)...I think we will see from flashbacks in future episodes from the Chief and others remembering the other 7 and they will look like the 7 we know of today. We always asked...who made the Hybrids of Capria? Not the sloppy Centurions, that is for sure...I bet it was the 7 Gods/Hybrids of Earth.

    I am still thinking the 5 wanted nothing to do with this when they were re-creating themselves again. Memory was erased by the final 5's choosing or the 7 forced it upon them. (hence, why we do not discuss the final 5)...
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  • Avatar of TigerLord

    TigerLord

    [24]Jan 16, 2009
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    serenity01 wrote:
    ...

    Great post man!

    I was speechless at the end of the episode.

    About cylons aging...we do know Saul aged throughout the series (we saw flashbacks of him having more hair and brown, looking younger). We don't know and cannot be sure cylons do not age.

    It is my understanding Models 1-7 were created by the cylons who fled after the first war. Therefore, they have nothing to do with the final five, who are 2000 years old. I wonder then how come they had a reference in their programming to them? If the 2000 years old cylons planted seeds for a new civilization and made themselves forget to"fit in", wouldn`t they have made sure the new colonies would not be destroyed, if they created them? Surely the final five knew about the new generation of cylons since it's the only way models 1-7 could know they even exist. Or is there another explanation?

    I was surprised they would reveal the final five in the first episode. Since I ellaborated about Cylons that age (Saul did), why not Ellen? It would explain his natural attraction to Six, why he saw her face when he interrogated her...

    Finally, to tie up your last paragraph. Because the Adamas have had such iconic and important roles to play in this entire adventure, I would bet one week's pay that the final five is actually Zak Adama. While it doesn't make a lot of sense at first, I started thinking about his links to Bill and Lee, as well as Kara. Kara, that is still unexplained.

    What if Zak was the final five, knew about what was coming to the new colonies, and planted whatever he needed to insure there would be survivors to find Earth, led by his brother and father no less, knowing he could not stop the new generation of cylons from doing what happened 2000 years ago on his planet? It doesn't explain why he would have wanted the 12 colonies to find Earth since he would know it was already devastated, but it would be really cool if it went this deep into the story.

    Plus, people could argue Zak has been too little of a character to be the final five. Tory wasn't revealed until later, and there seems to be a trend where character is not seen for a while, then become the focus for 1 or 2 episodes and just shocks us. Can you imagine the shock it would do to see Zak Adama back?

    All-in-all, I think this is epic televion, I literally had chills when Starbuck found herself.

    Edited on 01/16/2009 11:20pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of luvnumbah6

    luvnumbah6

    [25]Jan 16, 2009
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    I was absolutely shocked to see dualla just blow her brains out after such a happy and tender moment with Lee, and starbuck finding her own body... which means what exactly?... I mean is she a cylon? or what; the expression and change in attitude of leoban was what I was thinking. Laura's breakdown and loss for words just a really great but bleak episode. Now is helen really the fifth cylon? Now both human and cylon fleets head in search for a new home, my question is why don't they head back to kobol?
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  • Avatar of firedrakes

    firedrakes

    [26]Jan 16, 2009
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    kind of figured that was going to happen last season
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [27]Jan 17, 2009
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    Apparently if the writers' strike from last winter had gone on for much longer, this episode could have been the Series Finale. How about that for a depressing ending? Some of the actors made cryptic comments that if Ep. 11 (of Season 4) had been the series finale, that it might have been too depressing for many fans. True, there is the small glimmer of hope in Adama's speech but it's hardly an uplifting adventurous tale. But this is Battlestar Galactica. We all know not to expect Bambi in the woods or birds singing in the trees.

    My own memory of Season 4 had gotten foggy during the long break from last June to this week. I didn't watch any episodes from the DVR after late June, not until I saw parts of a couple episodes during the BSG marathon on the Sci Fi Channel yesterday (Friday). I was almost beginning to think, "Hmm, was the show as good as I thought it was?" And then, bam, I got sucker-punched by this episode. Now I'm thinking, "How could I ever have doubted that this would be anything but a spectacular (though depressing) episode?"

    Even though it's sad to know that BSG is winding down, at least it is going out with a bang. It's ending on a creative high point. So from that perspective, it's better to have a BSG series that maintained its remarkably high quality throughout its entire run than to have a show that lasted for 7 years and petered out during the last 2 seasons. Still doesn't mean I don't want to see additional BSG TV movies (after BSG: The Plan).
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  • Avatar of antdude

    antdude

    [28]Jan 17, 2009
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    "Frack Earth!"
    Edited on 01/17/2009 12:21am
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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [29]Jan 17, 2009
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    If it does turn out that Ellen is somehow really an aged Six, I'll be speechless, and not in a good way. Is there even one person who doesn't entertain the possibility?
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  • Avatar of trik113

    trik113

    [30]Jan 17, 2009
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    My thing with the whole Ellen is just an aged Six theory is, wouldn't Tigh and Adama REMEMBER what Ellen looked like when was around the supposed age of the Sixs? Now, I don't remember how long Tigh and Ellen have been married before she got the axe but it seems like they were together for awhile. I'm pretty sure someone would remember what they own wife used to look like even if they don't have pictures of them.
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  • Avatar of InfamousJR

    InfamousJR

    [31]Jan 17, 2009
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    The thing I still can not wrap my head around....what is Kara?

    A clone, time traveler or the cylon god? Ahhh so frustrating.

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  • Avatar of MichaelDracon

    MichaelDracon

    [32]Jan 17, 2009
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    Okay, so here is my theory:

    The people of Earth have found a way to clone a few of them using a single bit of DNA. After the devastation of Earth 12 clones are made by a few survivors and send out to warn the 12 other tribes. They take with them the technology to clone again.

    7 split off and mass produce the cloning system. The other 5 don't agree and want to stay unique.

    My guess is that there is an active cloning facility on Earth that still works. Kara's DNA is being used to make a new 'model', effectively making her the 13th.

    As to who is the 12th, I'm liking the Ellen = older 6 idea. It fits all too well with what we've seen so far. And it helped me work out the following: I noticed that they made a big deal out of D crying, finding Earth stuff and looking at a picture of a her younger self. I think the original Earth cloning system grows a new person rapidly from a foetus to a grown person, unlike the mass Cylon version which seems to just make copies directly. I'm thinking D is the 12th. And she will be recloned again using the Earth system at some point. Also, the Earth cloning system being like that accounts for a younger 6. She first used the Earth system they took with them to make herself younger (grow herself again but stopping sooner). And then when the Cylons made their own version of the cloning system they used the younger 'template' instead.

    Heck, Ellen knew about the system on Earth. She's probably one of the people who made it in the first place. So she should know a way to make herself a younger copy of herself. If I'm completely wrong about all the above, at least thing about this last bit.
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  • Avatar of lollypop18

    lollypop18

    [33]Jan 17, 2009
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    My mind is crawling with questions after seeing this long awaited epi!

    Here they are:

    http://spacebubble.be/forum/viewtopic.php?p=122#p122

    Edited on 01/17/2009 3:14am
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  • Avatar of aloyoon

    aloyoon

    [34]Jan 17, 2009
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    can i ask question why some people still Guess who the final cylon it is ellin end of the story .

    the question now who\what is Kara??
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  • Avatar of roger767

    roger767

    [35]Jan 17, 2009
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    Can somebody help me, cuz I lost the whole history.

    First we had earth with Real People, they had to leave earth and found 12 new planets and founded the 12 colonies. Then they made cylons, Got in a war with them, then we had a truce. The cylons came back but now they looked/were human. The cylons destroyed the 12 colonies. And the real people had to flee, and fled to earth.

    Now they found earth but the dead people on earth arent people but cylons, the final 5 cylons remember this planet from 2000 years ago

    So is the planet they found really earth or not?

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  • Avatar of aloyoon

    aloyoon

    [36]Jan 17, 2009
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    it is earth but no one know what happen i think only the writers know
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  • Avatar of simulacra-

    simulacra-

    [37]Jan 17, 2009
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    I dont think that 12 cylons left earth as is, I think 5 did, the other 7 might have been constructed by the mechanicals aided by those 5, I dont think that there really is a relation between the colony created toasters and the human ones, apart from the final 5.

    To me the term "cylon" is incorrect for the 6 - 12s...

    I'd say cloned earth humans.
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  • Avatar of silvermoon88

    silvermoon88

    [38]Jan 17, 2009
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    I like the theory about the 12 cylons and the 12 gods but i don't think it is possible given our understanding of the differences between the 4 and 7 and i think the 5th is probaly even differnt from the 4. But if the writers could shift things to make that theory work it'd be cool.
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  • Avatar of Raven-22

    Raven-22

    [39]Jan 17, 2009
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    I don't think Ellen is the fifth Cylon. I think that Tigh was remembering the last moment with his soul-mate and b/c his one love in this reality was Ellen that is the imagine he saw. I do think that the last Cylon is somehow link to Tigh or maybe his soul-mate was six. If that is true then anyone could still be the last Cylon.

    Maybe they were all human and knew that the planet would be nuked, so they developed away to clone themselves as Cylons. Think about it. If the planet was nuked the human would have been turn to ashes and there would not be any human bones.

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  • Avatar of Bionetic

    Bionetic

    [40]Jan 17, 2009
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    I think Kara's double can be explained by the concept of "jumping". While the concept of jumping has only been a plot device, it could explain alot of things. Jumping is a form of quantum teleportation. Mass can't travel faster then the speed of light. So when a ship jumps, it's possible the process of jumping causes the original ship to create a new ship at the destination being jumped to. This same process causes the consciousness of the people in the original ship to 'quantum leap' to the new version of the vessel located at the destination and the old ship instantly is disintegrated. The concept which involves the transfer of conscious has been a cornerstone of the BSG series. It's possible that the explosion that Kara was in caused a freak jump. we've seen freak jumps happen before in the series. This jump didn't created two Kara's instead of one. The living Kara and the dead Kara. Of course that doesn't explain why her ship looked brand new, but I just wanted to throw that out there. As for time travel. I just wanted to note, that the BSG crew technically time travels every time the use the FTL drive. Also, I think it's possible that earth was not a planet of human beings, but it was a planet of Cylons. So the referance final five doesn't refer to the final five of the 12 cylon models. Final is a referance to the final five of Cylon race located on earth. So they were the final five of possibly billions. So in that ad that asks whether we are "Human or Cylon?" I guess everyone of Earth is a Cylon. I'm a Cylon!!???!
    Edited on 01/17/2009 9:41am
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