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Discussion - "Sometimes a Great Notion" (1/16/09)(Spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of hash1978

    hash1978

    [41]Jan 17, 2009
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    Re: Is Ellen the Fifth??
    ***SPOILER***
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  • Avatar of nomatic11

    nomatic11

    [42]Jan 17, 2009
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    Some people just don't get it. The opening credits showed all of the known cylons, then said one will be revealed. Then, in the last waning seconds, they reveal Ellen is the fifth and final one. Further, it is re-enforced by the fact that this week SciFi released a press statement saying to be sure and program your DVRs an extra few minutes because they will run over. Obviously, if they had revealed the fifth one and the DVRs weren't recording, people would be upset after waiting years for the final reveal.

    To those that can't accept it, it's a fact. You have to adjust whatever bizarre theory to conform with this fact. The opening credits next week will show all of the cylons in the beginning and Ellen will be sitting next to them. I have no idea where this is all going, but I suspect we will be seeing more of her by the end of the season. This same discussion came up when the other 4 were revealed and no one believed the show.

    Accept the fact and move on.

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  • Avatar of tommy0122

    tommy0122

    [43]Jan 17, 2009
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    I'm glad that BSG is back but last night's episode was a giant pity party.
    Edited on 01/17/2009 10:27am
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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [44]Jan 17, 2009
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    tommy0122 wrote:
    I'm glad that BSG is back but last night's episode was a giant pity party.


    I would've been severely confused if it hadn't been, given what they were expecting of Earth and then its reality. I think that the various reactions were all written and acted out fantastically, and am thrilled with the revelations we got and the new theories they set going.
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  • Avatar of sheli20

    sheli20

    [45]Jan 17, 2009
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    ICE0ne wrote:
    during tyrol's flashback they hid all the faces except one blond woman. i didn't get a good enough look to recognize her, did anyone?


    looking at that scene again it seems there were a whole bunch of different people there.
    it wasn't just copies of the "final five" cylons.
    and as we know the earth cyclons could reproduce so it's logical they wouldn't all be copies of the basic models
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  • Avatar of teaveefreak

    teaveefreak

    [46]Jan 17, 2009
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    That was a great episode. Last week I was mourning the loss of Stargate Atlantis, this week I'm celebrating the return of BattleStar Galatica. How sweet it is. Now on to the episode. I don't think that Ellen is a younger version of Six. It doesn't fit. When Saul saw her in the flashback at the end, she looked like Ellen not like Six. So then if that what she looked like 2000 years ago how can she be an older model of the six? Granted that Saul was a slightly younger version of himself but he was still the Saul that we know. I really do think that Ellen is the 5th. That question has been answered. The mystery now surrounds Starbuck and I think I have a possilbe resolution for that. For those of us who can remember back to the original Galatica, there was an episdoe called "War of the Gods" when Apollo died and then he miraculousy reappeared in a brand new white viper and a brand new uniform. So could that be what happened to Starbuck? Is it possible that she died and was then reborn remaining the same old Kara?

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  • Avatar of rslade70

    rslade70

    [47]Jan 17, 2009
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    nomatic11 wrote:

    Some people just don't get it. The opening credits showed all of the known cylons, then said one will be revealed. Then, in the last waning seconds, they reveal Ellen is the fifth and final one. Further, it is re-enforced by the fact that this week SciFi released a press statement saying to be sure and program your DVRs an extra few minutes because they will run over. Obviously, if they had revealed the fifth one and the DVRs weren't recording, people would be upset after waiting years for the final reveal.

    To those that can't accept it, it's a fact. You have to adjust whatever bizarre theory to conform with this fact. The opening credits next week will show all of the cylons in the beginning and Ellen will be sitting next to them. I have no idea where this is all going, but I suspect we will be seeing more of her by the end of the season. This same discussion came up when the other 4 were revealed and no one believed the show.

    Accept the fact and move on.


    Well Said. Agreed.
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  • Avatar of sheli20

    sheli20

    [48]Jan 17, 2009
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    I just remembered that at the beginning of the show when Baltar was still testing people to see if they were cylons, with his machine, he actually tested Hellen but never revealed the answer to anyone. So he probably knew all along that she was a cylon? That fits with one of the questions raised in the promoos: "who among us knows the truth?"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nM43tlapuM

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  • Avatar of nomatic11

    nomatic11

    [49]Jan 17, 2009
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    sheli20 wrote:

    I just remembered that at the beginning of the show when Baltar was still testing people to see if they were cylons, with his machine, he actually tested Hellen but never revealed the answer to anyone. So he probably knew all along that she was a cylon? That fits with one of the questions raised in the promoos: "who among us knows the truth?"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nM43tlapuM



    It's been a while since I saw that episode. However, I remember one thing clearly in that scene. Red was a dominant color, which was the cylon positive for the test. I think she was wearing a red dress at that time. I can't remember.
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  • Avatar of hash1978

    hash1978

    [50]Jan 17, 2009
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    In the Ellen-in-the-rubble scene, she assures Tigh that 'everything is in place' (sorry if it's misquoted).

    It would seem that *she* is the one who organised the FF's apparent reincarnation, or more precisely -- and this is where the speculation begins -- Herself, plus a few others to surround herself with, carefully chosen:

    - Saul, her loving husband,
    - Anders, her favorite musician,
    - Tyrol, her favorite something (writer? he looks like a writer),
    - Tory, her BFF (they're both bi**es so that makes sense)

    Any thoughts?

    * Edit: Anything we conjure up in the coming days may be completely blown way by the next episode

    Edited on 01/17/2009 11:39am
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  • Avatar of hash1978

    hash1978

    [51]Jan 17, 2009
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    Also, Ellen could be resurrected using the same device by which Starbuck was resurrected.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [52]Jan 17, 2009
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    Wow...intense episode. I so did not see Dee shooting herself coming...she just seemed so happy, and I was to busy agonizing over the fact that they might restart the LeeDee thing. As for the final cylon, I really think it is Ellen. The thing is, we've had so long to agonize over who it could be, that anyone would have been a letdown. I think its good that it wasn't made into some huge show ending reveal. And the fact that this could have worked as the finale means that she probably is. I also found it interesting that, other than Tryol, the other four were couples. Ellen and Tigh, Tory and Anders. And Anders was in a band...so appropriate.

    So Earth was a race of cylons. So what did humans destroy them (Kara? Either that or the created robots, called them Humans, and the Humans killed the cylons...) The way I see it, I think that the cylons aren't exactly machines....like they are machines as much as the colonials are (which who knows what that is...the colonials could really be manufactured for all we know), but the way I see it, there was a nuclear holocaust and one of them (Maybe Tyrol, or maybe just someone else who knew all of them...maybe Baltar in some weird way...who knows with this show?) came up with a way to rebirth them in the colonies. Tryol, and then the two couples. And they are somehow responsible for the creation of the seven. Probably not directly but still.

    As for other final cylon theories, I was big on the "Zak Adama" theory, and also my own weird theory were Three was somehow one of the seven AND one of the five. But Ellen is the real thing. They already used their "psyc" moment in 4.0. Plus whenever we've seen a younger version of Tigh or something (other than in Razor) they always use the same actors, just with different makeup. And there was always that thing in "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down". I'm wondering if Baltar knew who the cylons were all along. Because if she did show up as a cylon, I'm sure that Tigh would have been tested at the very least. And as to how they can identify the bodies as cylons, I'm going to assume that their cylon allies probably gave them some way to test that. Because otherwise, they definitely would have found Tigh, and probably the other three as well.

    And Kara, from the way they were writing and filming her last season, it was kind of like she was some goddess. What if she IS the cylon god? Would be kinda creepy, with Leoban like worshipping her and stuff. But it might fit. I don't see her being a cylon, but there is something to her.
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  • Avatar of Peter_24601

    Peter_24601

    [53]Jan 17, 2009
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    This is a theory that a bud and myself are kicking around: Ellen and Kara are the same Cylon. We know that there are dozens of copies of the same Clyon running around all looking exaclty alike. What if Kara is just a younger version of the final cylon?

    This story would certainly explain a lot away, especialy to why Starbuck found her body in the field. It means there is a ship out there that regenerated her body. If that's true that means there might be a regenerated Ellen out there as well, and chances are she might not be so happy with her ex-hubby. Uh oh...

    It would also explain why D'Anna Biers isn't pointing to Kara as the final and said that the final cylon 'wasn't with the fleet'. This is because the last Cylon she saw with the group was Ellen, the older version who was killed on New Caprica. That might be the Cylon she was apologizing to when she realized that one of them was dead... she was sorry one of the five was killed during their 'occuptation'.

    It's an interesting twist... and it will be interesting if another Ellen cylon will make an apperance. If Starbuck is a clone and not another replica of the final cylon, the fleet might have to live with the fact that they unknowingly murdered the final cylon. And you thought the last episode was a pity party... that is going to be a real bummer.

    Peter

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  • Avatar of Drewligarchy

    Drewligarchy

    [54]Jan 17, 2009
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    I think Kara is the daughter of Saul and Ellen. Thus, she would sort of be the 13th - which would sort of make sense - based on thematic elements around the number 13. If Ellen is the 5th, and possilby resurrected somewhere after her death on New Capirca - I could see her causing Starbuck to be reborn - especially since she seemed to have a hand in the re-birth of the other final five.

    This would also add some interesting ironies based on Tigh and Starbuck's relationship, especially in the first season.

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  • Avatar of Sephiroth36

    Sephiroth36

    [55]Jan 17, 2009
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    Well, it looks self explanatory for my opinion about the 5 cylons, the 5 survivors of earth after the nukes went off, the remants of the tribe. But more questions may remain as of, what is actually the history of earth, there where no humans or cylons where part of the humans or what kind of weird history they have, as it would be neat.

    As for Starbuck, well, she died, and she resurrected, still is vague concerning as why she had a new viper, new clothes, and no recollection of the past and how she got to earth, maybe she traveled in time, or resurrected in a weird manner, or remembered her past like the others in their flashbacks. Or soemthign freaky.
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  • Avatar of BHSWorkstation

    BHSWorkstation

    [56]Jan 17, 2009
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    I had very mixed feelings about the episode. I loved the drama but have trouble accepting the "surprise twists." The whole concepts of Cylons taking human form and infiltrating Colonial society was a brilliant move that lead to some inspired twists such as the reveal of Boomer as a Cylon in the mini-series. Since the concept of the "Final Five," however, the concept has really fallen apart.

    The greatest strength of the show has always been how it took a naturalistic and realistic drama and then placed it in a sci-fi setting. I recall when Mr. Olmos stated that one of the reasons he chose to do the show was because of it's relevance to our world today and that if it turned into an "Alien of the week" type show that he would quit. I believe his point was simply that he wanted to "keep it real." And for the first two and a half seasons, that was definitely the tone of the show. But since the introduction of the "Final Five," we have seen the resurrection of Kara Thrace, the introductions of a completely different kind of Cylon that completely ignores all the rules previously established, and now the big reveal that those Cylons were not created by MAN (at least not those in the Colonies) and somehow died thousands of years ago and then were miraculously reborn only to make it to the Colonies.

    No doubt there will be some explanations given that those who are willing to suspend enough disbelief can accept. But what it amounts to in the end is playing mental gymnastics with the logic and the original premise of the show. I would have much preferred it if the had found the nuked earth without the resurrected Kara or the Final Five. There are effective and logical twists (Dualla killing herself / an inhabitable earth) and there are credibility straining twists (the rebirth of Kara and the Final Five). I want to see more of what really made the show great: real people dealing with unspeakable tragedy, Adama mustering all of his will to rally his people, etc.

    I'm very glad that they got so many "revelations" out of the way - hopefully now they can get to telling some more straightforward dramatic episodes.

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  • Avatar of mcatrage

    mcatrage

    [57]Jan 17, 2009
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    Theres gotta be another group that we haven't seen yet thats pulling some strings in the background and I think Starbuck is apart of that group and they were the ones that destroyed Earth all those years ago. Maybe cylons created their own machines, happen before and will happen again.

    The one thing I'm curious about is if Ellen will actually come back, I'd assume being held by this other group, or if it'll be another thing Saul will have to carry with him in how he killed one of the 5 for good.

    Great episode though really setting the show up for a great ending

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  • Avatar of BHSWorkstation

    BHSWorkstation

    [58]Jan 17, 2009
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    ONE MORE GOOD TWIST:

    I almost forgot that there was one more effective twist (though the reactions on these boards seems to be more negative): the revelation that earth was populated entirely by Cylons. At this point I think people are taking that too literally. It is possible that a storyline will be developed that the Cylons actually came before the humans or that the 13th tribe was originally composed entirely of Cylons but I find that unlikely. I think it's very important to remember that during the discussions of the tests on the bodies, Baltar stated, "The results are inconclusive." It seems much more likely to me that the 13th tribe did indeed create their own Cylons and that over time they Cylons evolved and began inter-breeding with the humans. After all, isn't that basically what is happening with the current Colonials? And it certainly fits with the recurring phrofecy that "All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."

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  • Avatar of Bisrossk

    Bisrossk

    [59]Jan 17, 2009
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    My God, that much melodrama can't be good for you. Was that a double episode or something? Because it sure as hell feels like I just watched two hours of people crying. It's hard to sympathize with those people, too, since I still just don't care about Dee. I was actually pretty excited about that. Makes me a little worried to see how little medical experience the crew has, though. I mean, they're wondering if she's alright and looking for a doctor when the girl blew her brains out? Yikes... Also don't care much about Ellen. Or the Adamas. Or every other character in the show (excluding Baltar, of course).

    I thought the one interesting point was Kara finding her dead body. You knew it was coming the moment she found the scrap metal, but it was still great to watch. Plus, it means that some other force out there is at play. But they ignored all of that to show her crying and mourning herself, right before they cut back to other people crying. I really gotta learn to stick with the summaries...

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  • Avatar of Andrew-SG

    Andrew-SG

    [60]Jan 17, 2009
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    Dee is a final (5) Cylon
    Remeber when she pick up the clock and some 12 small metal thing's .. I think she has the same flash back's like other original Cylons ... and I think the resurection hub is still working on the Earth
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