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Discussion - "Sometimes a Great Notion" (1/16/09)(Spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of youzernaym

    youzernaym

    [81]Jan 18, 2009
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    I found this:

    http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/final-fifth-cylon-ellen-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html

    Very interesting interview with RDM, but even better are the links in the article to other interviews, with other characters, even one with Ellen's character.

    She's going to show up more often, like in 7 of the remaining 9 episodes!

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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [82]Jan 18, 2009
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    roger767 wrote:
    the galactica crew found Kobal during season 2. Which is the origin of all the peoples of the 12 colonies. I never understood the importance of earth. Besides the fact that the crew deluded themselves in thinking that if they found earth the cylons would stop hunting them down.

    It would only make sense if the colonials were expecting to find a thriving advanced civilization capable of helping them fight off the Cylons. A thin hope indeed but after all they've been grasping at straws since the beginning.

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    hazelnut144

    [83]Jan 18, 2009
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    I agree that we probably will see a lot of "What is the definition of life" questions. I have a feeling that the cylons weren't exactly robots originally. Just slightly different from humans. If the thirteenth tribe was human, and left Kobol, then were isolated, then they might have evolved just enough to have slightly altered DNA. Their technology probably developed a bit more too. Then they created the cylons, and the differences in their DNA etc would be seen by the Colonials as evidence of their machine origins. From what I remember though, the idea behind Cylon detection was detecting of synthetic materials. There could just be a higher abundance of those kinds of materials on Earth or something. That probably isn't the whole explanation because there is still cylon superstrength, and the fact that they can't reproduce on their own (though Tigh and Six apparently can), and how they manage to transfer consciousness to explain. Also, as to what Dee picked up on Earth, it was a game of jacks. I agree with the others who have said this. I think it was just supposed to represent the death of innocents, and it really threw Dee.
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  • Avatar of psychickiller

    psychickiller

    [84]Jan 18, 2009
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    Wow... An amazing yet sad episode, and it throws at you way too much at once...

    No time to write more atm, except that the whole connection between Earth and the 12 colonies is getting clearer... The only thing I can't explain is Kara. What the FRAK?
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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [85]Jan 18, 2009
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    roger767 wrote:
    the galactica crew found Kobal during season 2. Which is the origin of all the peoples of the 12 colonies. I never understood the importance of earth. Besides the fact that the crew deluded themselves in thinking that if they found earth the cylons would stop hunting them down.

    That was exactly the reason, that the cylons also found Kobol and as a result they couldn't stay there.

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  • Avatar of hoobydictator

    hoobydictator

    [86]Jan 18, 2009
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    MrBovineOrdure wrote:

    "There are 12 models". I'm beginning to think this is a bit misleading now. Perhaps "There are 12 models left" would be more accurate. 5 of them are the original ones who have found a different means of resurrecting than requiring a "hub" and blank bodies. Ellen said "Everything's in place, we'll be reborn" means there was something to prepare in advance to permit their version or resurrection. I'm thinking this device would allow them to transport any consciousness to any kind of body they want. Hence, Kara may not have been a Cylon in the past, but she is one now.

    I'm thinking the temple on the algae planet was their resurrection mechanism. In an interview a while back, Aaron Douglas did let out the whole "Earth = Cylon colony" thing, but he did also mention something about the five being unhappy with life on Earth and wanting to go back and find the other colonies. Maybe this was the answer; they built something that would download their consciousness on death and transport them somehow to the colonies, although what form that transportation would take I do not know. It was Tyrol who found the place, being drawn to it instinctively, so he may have had some subconscious memory of it. If this was its function, then maybe it has been doing the same job for a couple of thousand years, i.e. the final five have been resurrected over and over but have no memory of their previous life (by accident or design). The memory loss could have been gradual, so I suppose it is even possible one of them may have played the part of Pythia at some point and planted clues to Earth just in case they needed to get back there. Of course, since Ellen died prior to the destruction of the temple, that opens up the possibility that there is a resurrected version of her wandering around somewhere, but doesn't really explain how Kara came back.

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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [87]Jan 18, 2009
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    So since Ellen is the fifth...wouldn't she be an infant now? We know from Tigh that the final (Or in this case original) five do age.

    Just a thought and I'm still very curious as to what the child of Caprica Six and Tigh is going to be. The only pure Cylon child should be interesting.

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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [88]Jan 18, 2009
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    So since Ellen is the fifth...wouldn't she be an infant now? We know from Tigh that the final (Or in this case original) five do age.

    Just a thought and I'm still very curious as to what the child of Caprica Six and Tigh is going to be. The only pure Cylon child should be interesting.



    Wouldn't that make Saul's daughter his wife? Aside from the creepiness factor, it's a really good question. Next episode will be giving us some clues I think.
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [89]Jan 18, 2009
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    She wouldn't have to be that child... it could be Chief's kid since she was born after Ellen died? Or maybe not but I think we can assume that if she is the fifth that she won't be a grown up person.

    I do like the theory that she is mearly an agged version of Six that would be a fun twist.
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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [90]Jan 18, 2009
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    She wouldn't have to be that child... it could be Chief's kid since she was born after Ellen died? Or maybe not but I think we can assume that if she is the fifth that she won't be a grown up person.

    I do like the theory that she is mearly an agged version of Six that would be a fun twist.


    Yes, but of course the inherent contradiction in that would that Ellen isn't actually the last cylon, but just another Six.
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  • Avatar of nomatic11

    nomatic11

    [91]Jan 18, 2009
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    I am annoyed with folks on this forum that can't accept facts.

    Ronald Moore in many interviews has now confirmed that they have reached EARTH. And yes, Earth, not some place they think is Earth, but EARTH--period. Secondly, he has confirmed that Ellen is the fifth cylon. In one interview, he discussed when the writers decided to make her the fifth in the series (late season 3; early season 4). Please conform your bizarre theories to these two simple facts and stop the speculating that Dee, Zack Adama, Kara, or anyone else is the fifth cylon.

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  • Avatar of Raven-22

    Raven-22

    [92]Jan 18, 2009
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    nomatic11 wrote:

    I am annoyed with folks on this forum that can't accept facts.

    Ronald Moore in many interviews has now confirmed that they have reached EARTH. And yes, Earth, not some place they think is Earth, but EARTH--period. Secondly, he has confirmed that Ellen is the fifth cylon. In one interview, he discussed when the writers decided to make her the fifth in the series (late season 3; early season 4). Please conform your bizarre theories to these two simple facts and stop the speculating that Dee, Zack Adama, Kara, or anyone else is the fifth cylon.

    http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/final-fifth-cylon-ellen-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html

    In the article 'Battlestar Galactica's' Ron Moore addresses the shocking developments of 'Sometimes a Great Notion' By Maureen Ryan, when asked if they found Earth Ron Moore said "They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth." He never said that this was the one and only Earth or our Earth. And the phrase "they christened it Earth" seems strange to me. Like they named it after another planet. Maye one that they came from after leaving the other colonies.

    I agree Ellen is probably the 5th Cylon but it is fun to read the different theories. It is like reading fan fiction. So relax and enjoy or more importantly let everyone else enjoying. We have all waited so long for the final 10 shows. We have paid our dues and have earned the right to discuss what we want.

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  • Avatar of lunachan01

    lunachan01

    [93]Jan 18, 2009
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    This is what I think is happenning. I think the 12 colonies are or were the children of the survivors of the holocust Earth. When Earth was destroyed, the society was so advance that they were at the point that they can cloned themselves very easily with few cibernetical implants or nano tech, with the end result been the final five. I think the so called ship of lights of the original series is the resurrection ship of the final five. The ship may be hidden in around Saturn and that is why Starbuck said she remenber the planet. When Starbuck arrive on our solar system she crashed on Earth, the ship activated and send something or the earth version of the centurion to collect her Dna and then we get to newly revived Kara. The clones that are one the ship recreated Starbuck viper and send the new Kara back to were the fleet was.

    Back to the final five I think Ellen was some scientist who created the cloning or the downloading of memories or minds to the advanced clones. That would explain what she said in the flashback that they were going to be reborn.

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  • Avatar of Raven-22

    Raven-22

    [94]Jan 18, 2009
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    lunachan01 wrote:

    This is what I think is happenning. I think the 12 colonies are or were the children of the survivors of the holocust Earth. When Earth was destroyed, the society was so advance that they were at the point that they can cloned themselves very easily with few cibernetical implants or nano tech, with the end result been the final five. I think the so called ship of lights of the original series is the resurrection ship of the final five. The ship may be hidden in around Saturn and that is why Starbuck said she remenber the planet. When Starbuck arrive on our solar system she crashed on Earth, the ship activated and send something or the earth version of the centurion to collect her Dna and then we get to newly revived Kara. The clones that are one the ship recreated Starbuck viper and send the new Kara back to were the fleet was.

    Back to the final five I think Ellen was some scientist who created the cloning or the downloading of memories or minds to the advanced clones. That would explain what she said in the flashback that they were going to be reborn.

    I like the idea of the ship of lights being part of the new series. It the last thing left from the orignal series that they haven't updated. I not sure if I agree that Ellen had anything to do with creating the cloning process. If the old Ellen is anything like the new Ellen she cheated or bribed her way into the process.

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  • Avatar of MetaLuna

    MetaLuna

    [95]Jan 18, 2009
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    I personally agree with the idea that the 13th colony (Earth) were humans who had found a way to reproduce their personalities and memories into manufactured bodies. It makes the most sense with the other facts given in the show so far. In fact, thus far, the flashbacks experienced by Tigh, Tyrol and Anders imply that they may have been wealthy - Tigh and Tyrol were well-groomed and well-dressed and Anders was a musician. Perhaps they were the only humans on the planet who could afford what was likely new technology. ("Everything is in place" sounds like a reminder that something new is occuring.) For all we know, they may have been among the group responsible for the nuclear holocaust, knowing full well they'd be resurrected. At the very least they anticipated the need. Unfortunately, there were apparently several failed resurrection attempts, probably due to radiation, that resulted in the entire group being wiped out several times before finally giving up on the planet and seeking out the previous 12 colonies. The "final five" were probably the only models that survived the ordeal. Clearly their Centurions did not, and were left behind.

    The 7 Cylon models previously known are NOT the same thing. They refer to themselves separately from the "Final Five", they do not age, and they were by all accounts created by the Centurion-style Cylons. If they have knowledge of the "Final Five", it is likely because the "Final Five" were somehow involved in the programming of older Cylon models, who then imparted this knowledge to future models built. They took the technology for Cylons from Earth, traveled to the colonies, and reproduced it. That's why the Centurions on Earth were different models than anything the skin-jobs had seen.

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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [96]Jan 18, 2009
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    Yeah, I see it that way too. The seven are definitely not the same as the five. Also rules that apply to the seven may not apply to the five and vice-versa. Like that whole "cylons can't reproduce" clause.

    I hadn't thought about the rebirth issue. Since the five age, they probably WERE born. So Saul and Caprica's child could very well be Ellen. A little creepy, but this IS BSG we're talking about...I could see it happening.
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    gibbin1

    [97]Jan 19, 2009
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    i think the earth they have found is a cylon copy of earth.
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    Orionova2

    [98]Jan 19, 2009
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    I'm just going to say it. Ellen CANNOT be the 5th. I refuse to believe it. Why would R. Moore bestow such a significant title to such an insignificant character (who isnt even a main cast member)?? The other four were ALL major characters (well, maybe except for Tori)

    Starbuck might be the fifth....maybe. She's a big enough character to be the fifth. But....for some reason...I also doubt this. The Final Cyclon has to be someone IMPORTANT (either Admiral Adama, the President, or Baltar). The entire series has been building up to the revelation of the fifth cyclon. I don't think Moore would waste it on being 'starbuck' or even 'apollo.'

    ...Or Moore might just do a complete mindfrack and have it so that it happens to be that EVERYONE's actually a cylon. But that's just a theory....

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  • Avatar of MetaLuna

    MetaLuna

    [99]Jan 19, 2009
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    Ellen IS one of the Final Five. RMD stated this clearly. He even went into detail on WHY she was chosen. There's no trick here, no "mindfrak". It's Ellen. Moving on...

    RMD also stated unequivocally that it IS Earth. "They found Earth. It is Earth." Hold out hope all you want, guys, it's Earth. Not a copy, not a misnamed planet. EARTH. Moving on...

    This isn't Lost, guys. Yeah, there have been a couple of twists, but not THAT many. It's not like the writers have been fibbing to us. Pretty sure the guys who do Lost lie their butts off, but not so much RMD.

    Also, no, I really don't see Ellen being reborn into a naturally conceived child. It doesn't make sense. Genetically speaking, that is. They aren't even proper Cylons, I'm guessing... more like clones.

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  • Avatar of lunachan01

    lunachan01

    [100]Jan 19, 2009
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    The final five are clones thats why they were alive on the colonies. The new Kara is also a clone. It is still a mystery of how she came back which will be resolved on the next episodes.

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