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Discussion-"Taking a Break from All Your Worries" (1/28/07) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of LMH68

    LMH68

    [61]Jan 29, 2007
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    I agree that the whole Dee/Lee/Kara/Sam thing is getting old. It's well done but it's dragging on - this is not a soap.

    I though, as ever, James Callis was excellent. I also found Adama's assessment of Baltar to be accurate - sees himself as a victim, mored sinned against than sinning.

    As for Gaeta - I have a soft spot for him, I don't know why. Someone else mentioned that he had had a deep admiration & respect for Baltar but that had been torn away. I think I agree with this, I think his disappointment in Baltar not doing more on New Caprica was partly behind his actions, as well as his own guilt at not believing he did enough himself.

    Interesting to see what they do with Caprica 6.
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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [62]Jan 29, 2007
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    This was a good episode, but not a great one.  They played the whole interrogation situation as I had hoped.  The portrayal of phyche ops interrogation was as good as can be expected from a TV show, from sleep deprivation and the allusions to waterboarding, followed by the lifeline gambit. The writers managed to pull it off without dwelling on it too much and included the voice of reason, with Doc Cottle pulling the plug before everything got out of control, and President Roslin reflecting on her desire to inflict pain on Baltar. "Most men and all women are inexorably cruel when in comes to defending their own."

    I'm beginning to see Baltar as a Saddam Hussein allegory. The long hair and gnarly beard look very similar to the pictures of Hussein after his capture and during the trial.  Add to that his complicity in the murder and abuse of his "people" followed by the interrogation and impending trial, and you could make a case for the idea.  I believe we will be seeing more along these lines in the future.

    As far as the whole betrayal/forgiveness thing goes; I can see what the writers were trying to do with all of the cuts between the love quadrangle and Baltars interrogation but they just didn't carry it off all that well.  

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  • Avatar of althalus69

    althalus69

    [63]Jan 29, 2007
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    Did anyone notice Baltar using the official F Word instead of fragg?
    When he was taken to be airlocked (kinda like that term), he shouted: "Get your motherfu*** hands of me!." I found it funny, they left it in...
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  • Avatar of tvdavid

    tvdavid

    [64]Jan 29, 2007
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    123home123 wrote:
    An interesting episode, if not as good as "Rapture" or "Collaborators." I was surprised to see the resolution of the Lee-Kara flirtation. Maybe it's not completely resolved but I don't think Lee would leave Dee after his speech at the bar.



    ***SPOILER***
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  • Avatar of Libaax

    Libaax

    [65]Jan 29, 2007
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    LMH68 wrote:
    I agree that the whole Dee/Lee/Kara/Sam thing is getting old. It's well done but it's dragging on - this is not a soap.

    I though, as ever, James Callis was excellent. I also found Adama's assessment of Baltar to be accurate - sees himself as a victim, mored sinned against than sinning.

    As for Gaeta - I have a soft spot for him, I don't know why. Someone else mentioned that he had had a deep admiration & respect for Baltar but that had been torn away. I think I agree with this, I think his disappointment in Baltar not doing more on New Caprica was partly behind his actions, as well as his own guilt at not believing he did enough himself.

    Interesting to see what they do with Caprica 6.


    The fricking soap is starting to destroy the magic that is BSG......


    Lee,Karen i now officially wish they got killed rather than seeing them acting like this
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [66]Jan 29, 2007
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    That was a good episode and I think the soap opera was perfect I don't think an entire episode of interrogating Balthar would've been that good.  I'm glad Dee and Lee are still together I always love something different.  As to Balthar's dilemma the torture was cool and Gaetas attack was very unexpected.  I have to agree with Balthar on the Gaeta issue he has no business taking the high road and Balthar was forced to do what he did so why is everyone so mad at him?
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  • Avatar of Libaax

    Libaax

    [67]Jan 29, 2007
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    There are many great characters in BSG.

    No need to waste time on the most predictable soap in history of tv.

    Let Lee,Karen get together already so the story can move on.....
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  • Avatar of gabfan31

    gabfan31

    [68]Jan 29, 2007
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    They are so mad because he put his own personal survival above all other considerations. He could have refused to be their Quisling and become a martyr, but chose to cooperate instead. Was it an easy decision? No. Was it understandable? Yes. Was it wrong? Yes! He may have been able to live with his decision on the short term, but I feel no pity for him as he finds out that this is something the rest of humanity won't let him live with on the long term. Too many good people died while he lived in his gilded cage. He could also have found a way to help his people behind the Cylons' backs, like Gaeta did. Gaeta isn't pure as undriven snow either, but at least he tried to help his fellow humans. Baltar deserves to have face justice in a trial, which ought to lead to his summary execution. But since this is a tv show I doubt it will be that easy. 
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  • Avatar of Chainblast

    Chainblast

    [69]Jan 29, 2007
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    Excellent episode, I have no idea why the ratings for it on this site are so low. Anyway...

    I thought the Lee/Kara thing was better than it typically is, though I'm not one to think it was every really bad. I think it's generally a victim of bad timing. Why mix it in with Batlar's interogation? Especially when their was no real developments or resolutions. That said James Callis put on an amazing performance and the scenes the writers concockted for this arc were quite excellent. There is one thing bothering me and it's partly assumption. Even though he should be, Gaeta will probably not be accused of attempted murder. It'll probably come down to a only a handful of people knowing that Baltar is alive and that Felix is a much needed member of the crew. However, I think their decision to "gloss" over his actions will come back to haunt them, and it should. Perhaps whatever Batlar whispered to him was truth and very...bad.

    EDIT: My bad in saying we didn't know what he whispered to Gaeta because you can hear him. So I'll instead make the comment that whatever Baltar professes to know about Gaeta (if anything) will come back to haunt Adama.
    Edited on 01/30/2007 9:55pm
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  • Avatar of gabfan31

    gabfan31

    [70]Jan 30, 2007
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    That is one of my real objections to the show, that there seems to be an awful lot "swept under the rug".  From Callie killing Boomer, or the death of the interrogating officer from the Pegasus, to Helo killing Sharon, or Apollo or Starbuck disobeying directs orders to be cowboys, there is NO discipline on that bucket. I understand why all these actions were taken, I sympathize, I even think  they did the right thing on occasion, but that's not the point. There is anarchy on the Galactica, and it's time Adama did something about it! Gaeta should be court martialed for his assault and attempted murder of Baltar. I'm not saying find him guilty, or making him serve a long sentence or lose his rank. But they can't keep doing this and stay under control. And if they aren't under control they'll be pushovers for the next basestar that finds them.
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  • Avatar of signalfire_WI

    signalfire_WI

    [71]Jan 30, 2007
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    The episode was only okay in in my opinion... but it is signaling a fundamental shift in the series with this season.

    Should we have named this episode "Taking a Break from the Long Term Plot"?
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  • Avatar of signalfire_WI

    signalfire_WI

    [72]Jan 30, 2007
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    I agree with the sentiments that the grit of BSG seems to be slipping away. In the first two seasons there was this overwhelming feeling of hopelessness and just scraping by to survive. Since the "one year later" I don't get the feeling the Cylons are still trying to engage or destroy the fleet. One good thing, though, the armor on Galactica does look like it has taken a beating.



    Even Admiral Adama's relationship with Roslin is getting a little to "shippy" for me. Plus, a bar? What happened to it being a ship of war? Would any kind of provost or MP let officers (much less the CAG) wander the gangways drunk? Why didn't he get sobered up in the brig?



    While I know Brother Cavel admitted "we made a mistake" when it came to the initial attack, what now? "Race you to Earth and the first one wins? Second place gets Mars?" If the Cylons pulled out of the Colonies, why are they still running? People were living on Caprica before, why not go back? Sam and the resistance from Caprica seemed to do okay with the radiation. Why not start over?



    I miss:

    Viper missions, hitting the Cylons and vise versa, searching for supplies (algae planet was good, but no one's complaining about the food it made?), building or maintaining Vipers and the ships of the fleet...
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  • Avatar of Nethicus

    Nethicus

    [73]Jan 30, 2007
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    123home123 wrote:
    Interesting points but the level of betrayal is so much different between that of Lee/Kara and that of Baltar. Lee's betrayal of Dee results in just the emotional turmoil of one person whereas Baltar's betrayal led to the deaths of thousands of people. His carelessness before the initial Cylon attack contributed to the deaths of billions of people.

    Betrayal is rarely (if ever) honorable or desirable but I still don't think the two stories fit that well together. I'll think better of the Lee/Kara story if Lee truly has come to terms with his marriage. He's an officer and a leader. I think he needs to figure out what he truly wants and go with it. He's supposed to be decisive and responsible so he needs to pick Dee or Kara and be done with it. I think he realizes that he can't afford to let himself be such an emotional mess with the constant threat of annihilation at the hands of the Cylons.


    I'm not going to argue with an Airwolf ('cause you know you'll die when the music hits crescendo).


    ***SPOILER***


    Ans as for the people who are "bored with the soap opera" of Lee and Kara, I think you do the show a disservice through your impatience.  You do say that there are so many interesting characters on BSG that the show should move on to them.  Yes, there is a myriad of interesting characters, all who have important stories, and all who's stories need to be told.  If the writers didn't address these human characteristics and just focused on advancing the storyline, what you'd end up with is Earth: Final Conflict-- a bunch of paper characters in a world with a meandering plot, neat special effects, and an ultimate feeling of, "Wow, I could have been outside for an hour."
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [74]Jan 30, 2007
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    I don't understand the Airwolf comment since I never watched that show, except for maybe one episode a long time ago. We don't pick the names for the levels.

    Based on your comments, if the focus isn't on the Lee/Kara story, then BSG won't be a good show. I disagree.

    I still don't understand why Kara holds marriage in such high regard. It doesn't seem to fit with the rest of her personality and beliefs. And she and Lee are sneaking around like they are in high school or in suburbia where they have to "keep up appearances." They are in the middle of a war and there doesn't seem to be a problem with officers marrying each other (Lee and Dee, and Athena and Helo, for example). Everyone knows about Lee and Kara's mutual attraction so I don't see the point in them hiding anything.

    Lee's indecisiveness also bothers me. His internal struggles between morality and the survival of humanity are interesting and have a better fit in the show. The "Dee or Kara" business, not so much.

    Sure, all of this is part of life but not everything in life fits BSG or is necessarily interesting. Maybe this was moderately interesting for a while, but I think the storyline is starting to drag on a bit too long. Adolescent peer pressure, teenage angst, the struggle to pay the rent and provide for one's family, the struggle against governmental bureaucracy, etc., are all a part of life (and interesting to some people) but I don't think those should be a focus of BSG either.
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  • Avatar of Nethicus

    Nethicus

    [75]Jan 30, 2007
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    123home123 wrote:
    I don't understand the Airwolf comment since I never watched that show, except for maybe one episode a long time ago. We don't pick the names for the levels.


    I just noticed the Airwolf tag. I'm little obsessed with levels currently, seeing as how I've been busted back down to Weatherman. I know they're working on it, but it's certainly annoying...

    :
    Based on your comments, if the focus isn't on the Lee/Kara story, then BSG won't be a good show.


    No, I'm saying that the Lee/Kara story is important to those two characters. If we don't give the proper time to their relationship, then we're not doing literary justice to their characters. I'd say the same thing about any other major or minor character. I am just annoyed with the lack of patience people have with the show when it deals (and deals very well) with issues of humanity.

    :
    I still don't understand why Kara holds marriage in such high regard. It doesn't seem to fit with the rest of her personality and beliefs.


    An observation I had on my end as well. She's a character of internal conflicts, and that leads to a score of broken relationships. She prefers pushing people away or treating her marriage to Anders as "just something to do". I think she doesn't really think marriage is so important, but it was something important to Lee, and she used it for leverage to break the relationship.

    :
    And she and Lee are sneaking around like they are in high school or in suburbia where they have to "keep up appearances." They are in the middle of a war and there doesn't seem to be a problem with officers marrying each other (Lee and Dee, and Athena and Helo, for example). Everyone knows about Lee and Kara's mutual attraction so I don't see the point in them hiding anything.

    Lee's indecisiveness also bothers me. His internal struggles between morality and the survival of humanity are interesting and have a better fit in the show. The "Dee or Kara" business, not so much.

    Sure, all of this is part of life but not everything in life fits BSG or is necessarily interesting. Maybe this was moderately interesting for a while, but I think the storyline is starting to drag on a bit too long.


    I think the writers have recognized it and they've put the issue to rest, for now. They could have just had a scene where they admit to each other it wasn't going to work and saved 2 episodes worth of tension, but, as I've been saying, it wouldn't do the characters justice, and the writers seems obsessed with fleshing out every character, major and minor, and that includes their relationships.
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  • Avatar of sla_17

    sla_17

    [76]Jan 30, 2007
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    I can't help but wonder if this whole Lee/Kara thing is really over as do a lot of other BSG fans. The way they ended things it seems like Lee kind of chickened out and decided to go the safe route. This issue may be put to rest for awhile but it will probably come back . As far as Anders, I kind of feel sorry for him. He takes alot of stuff from Kara and yet he still stays with her. Does anyone know if Michael Trucco (Anders) will continue on or will his character leave after this season? Just thought I'd ask .
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  • Avatar of weirdaaron

    weirdaaron

    [77]Jan 30, 2007
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    Well, rumors are going about that he is one of the final five, and if he is, he will probably stay on the show, However if he isn't i have a feeling he will be killed off or just leave the show some other way.
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  • Avatar of phoneguytim

    phoneguytim

    [78]Jan 30, 2007
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    Libaax wrote:
    There are many great characters in BSG.

    No need to waste time on the most predictable soap in history of tv.

    Let Lee,Karen get together already so the story can move on.....


    Just to let you know... it's Kara, not Karen. The first post from you that referred to Karen, I thought was a typo... but when I saw it again in the second post in this thread, I thought I'd let you know. The character's name is Kara Thrace, not Karen Thrace.
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  • Avatar of wedgeantilles54

    wedgeantilles54

    [79]Jan 30, 2007
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    There where  several great scenes in this episode, but the one that stuck with me the most was the one where rolsin and the marines where taking baltar down the halls full of photos whit roslin shouting at him and then him finding the photo of his former lab assistant and claiming that he would never him and all that and finally the four marines carrying him off.  I would have to say it was one of the most powerfull scenes in the episode at least to me, and it kinda set the tone for things to come prehaps

    also did anyone else pick up on the references to the CIA and LSD, in the whole conversation about interagtion methods that could be used on baltar and then the interogation itself. 

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  • Avatar of AthenaAurora

    AthenaAurora

    [80]Jan 30, 2007
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    I thought James Callis was fantastic! Totally over the top! How could he not yearn to be a Cylon to escape the hell of torture?  And yet if he were a Cylon to awaken(over and over again) with the same torment of guilt and uncertainty?He is in his own personal hell right now, despised by both sides and looking for redemption.

    Roslyn: Wow I actually went to do my homework, clean my room,take out the trash and wash behind my ears! You go Madam President!

    O.K. So they've got a bar. That don't impress me much but it's a place to hang dog.

    As for the soap opera. One should remember that half the population on this planet (if not more)are women.Why not reach out for a few more fans? It struck me as a moral predicament. Starbuck has always been portrayed as the hot blond passing by in a Corvette. To the uncommited and immature it was like,"Yeah, go for it!"  Forget that she may be real and have a husband or issues."She wants me now and it could be fun.?" Everyone likes fun (Lee/Kara belong together) but what's down the road? Lee got a shot on Caprica and she let him crash and burn. Then she got into a Hummer with Anders. To the young. "An orgasm doesn't equal commitment."

    As for Dee? The Dee haters had it right for all the wrong reasons. Yes, she knew what she was geting into. She took the risk. She not only saved Kara from the planet but she's trying to save Lee from himself. "Lucky?" Think about your mothers people. The good ones that took care of you when you were sick, listened to you whine and put up with all your crap. Now think about the people you know who had the Kara moms. The ones who weren't always around, didn't care about your problems, didn't care what you did so long as she was happy or at the least when it was too late. Now they could have had Dee bursting into tears, throwing things and storming out of the room but that would be out of character for her. You know there are a lot of people out there like her character. To the friendly outgoing types these people seem cold and guarded(very un-Cylon like) but if you took the patience to understand them, you'd see that wearing their emotions on the outside(Lee/Kara) is their frailty. They tend to solve problems with efficiency but when it comes to expressing emotions outright it takes a lot of dumping before they finally let what they feel out. Kudo's to Kandyse. Every line the writers throw at her(though few) she sends out of the park.I did not see her reaction as full out relief. It was more of a "Yeah, nice to see you grovel but you're on probation boy!" type gesture. Ya' know from Lee I almost thought I heard a "You complete me." With Kara it would have been "You compete with me.

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