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Discussion - "The Ties That Bind" (U.S. air date 4/18/08) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [101]Apr 22, 2008
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    mialza wrote:

    Also I'm getting a very dark vibe from this season. I don't think it will end well for anyone. The Cylon Civil war may end up destroying them, and I can't help but think that the fleet will not meet a good end. I wouldn't be surprised if the series ended with the Demetrius as the only ship left, and it discovers Earth despite being commanded by a total nutjob with the last remnants of the humans and of the Cylons. Kind of an Ark that will serve as a warning to the future.



    Yeah this season is getting a really dark vibe. Although I disagree that the Demetrius will be the only ones to find Earth. I think that at least some of the fleet will. That Adama will find it, but only after having had to bury/airlock everyone he loves. I mean, I doubt Roslin will survive to the end of the season. Lee and Kara won't live for that bright shiny future, since, in the words of Lee Adama, "bright shiny futures are overrated". I just get the feeling that Adama will get the fleet to Earth in the end, but that it won't be home for him. That he will never be able to truly live there and be happy. That he will be apart, and alone for the rest of his life.
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    Vincent2013

    [102]Apr 22, 2008
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    Why do I get the feeling that a lot of people are not going to like the series fanale. I mean for me most of the series fanales Ive seen, Ive loved and the only thing I didnt like was the fact that the show itself was ending. It just seems like it is too much of a buildup and people will be dissapointed
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    123home123

    [103]Apr 22, 2008
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    Given the tone of this entire series, I don't think viewers should be expecting a "bright shiny" happy ending. What I am looking for is a mind-blowing end that ties up many of the stories while leaving a few questions unresolved. The fate of the characters should be addressed but what happens to any people (or Cylons) that make it to Earth doesn't need to be explained completely. If they really do visit our Earth, I think it needs to be in our ancient history or after a cataclysmic war or natural disaster. It would be boring to see them arrive in our modern-day era. We would have nothing to fight off the Cylons so what would be the point of the Colonial fleet reaching Earth?
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    stephenanderson

    [104]Apr 23, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    If they really do visit our Earth, I think it needs to be in our ancient history or after a cataclysmic war or natural disaster. It would be boring to see them arrive in our modern-day era. We would have nothing to fight off the Cylons so what would be the point of the Colonial fleet reaching Earth?

    I'm guessing the ending will have something to do with the "It has happened before, it will happen again" theme. It will need to address how humanity is on a perpetual cycle to destroy itself, and then grow back. Have the Cylons always been around in some form and it's their programming that guides us? Or is it something inside us?

    It's seemed weird to me that the Cylons are programmed not to think about the final 5. To me, that means there is some sort of plan for them all that was designed by someone. The big question is who made that plan? Woudn't it be interesting if it was humanity that had something to do with it.

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    hazelnut144

    [105]Apr 23, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    Given the tone of this entire series, I don't think viewers should be expecting a "bright shiny" happy ending. What I am looking for is a mind-blowing end that ties up many of the stories while leaving a few questions unresolved. The fate of the characters should be addressed but what happens to any people (or Cylons) that make it to Earth doesn't need to be explained completely. If they really do visit our Earth, I think it needs to be in our ancient history or after a cataclysmic war or natural disaster. It would be boring to see them arrive in our modern-day era. We would have nothing to fight off the Cylons so what would be the point of the Colonial fleet reaching Earth?


    agreed. And in addition I see it being pretty depressing as well. Like we are not going to get any kind of "happily ever after" in any sense I don't think. Someone I know suggested that maybe the series end on them finding like the solar system, but we don't get to see them reach Earth. Have a battered and tiny fleet, with very few of the main cast left, reach Jupiter or something, and then have it end. Leave the ending open maybe. It's another possibility.
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    Libaax

    [106]Apr 23, 2008
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    I dont think what Tory did was programming. I think it was an act of human evil.

    She talked Cally from killing herself and her kid and then afterwards killed her in coldblood. There is no justification for that. She wasnt saving the kid IMO.

    Someone mentioned earlier Tory doesnt have anything to care for . Tigh has his job,codes,Anders Kara,Cheif his family .

    You saw in that sex scene with Batlar that Tory was an unstable cause of her "human" history. I think it was easier for her to want to act like a cylon that is more free to do what she wants now that she knows she is the humans enemy. She even said to the chief how free she felt about being a cylon.

    Thats why the others cling to being humans and not acting like they were programmed cylons. They have reasons to do that while she doesnt.

    I thought it was a great ep, the shocking cold bloody murder of Cally really stole the show. Tory fooled me too like she did Cally before killing her.

    P.S i dont watch previews so i was fooled by shocking twist at the end.
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    Vincent2013

    [107]Apr 23, 2008
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    I think that Tyrol will be the next to accept his cylon programming, being as though the only one left of his family is his hybrid son.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [108]Apr 23, 2008
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    Another possible motive for Tory's act was the removal of her competitor... for Tyrol's attentions. We saw that Tory has started to develop feelings for Tyrol. Tory may have been trying to protect the Final Four (of the Five) and she may have been protecting the hybrid Nicky, but she might also have been trying to get rid of the competition. With Cally out of the way, she has a clearer shot at Tyrol.

    Tory is undergoing an awakening, sexually and identity-wise, ever since she started hearing the music. She always seemed a business-like overachiever in earlier episodes with no time for a personal life. Ever since the Ionian Nebula, she has slept with Anders and Baltar, and now she has designs on Tyrol. Her body language is different too. When she meets with the other Cylons, she slumps in her chair, crosses her legs with only her heel on her other knee, and acts bored at times. She was never like this in Roslin's office or on New Caprica.

    At the same time, it looks like Dee may be relegated to the background this season. She's only had a couple lines so far and she didn't even appear in one of the episodes. In another episode, we only saw her briefly as she had her back turned to the camera while she was working in the CIC. Tory seems to be taking her place in terms of onscreen minutes and the focus of the story.

    The Lee/Kara/Dee triangle (or rectangle if you include Anders) is all but gone with each of them now on a separate ship as Lee now works on Colonial One and Kara commands the Demetrius. Dee is the only one of that triangle left on the Galactica. Perhaps a symbolic way of signaling the end to that mini-soap opera. And with that end follows Dee's move back to the background.
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    MrBovineOrdure

    [109]Apr 24, 2008
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    I wonder....

    Before the 4 of the 5 we see buried their identities as Cylons, did they know each other? Were there any relationships they had before they had to forget what they were? Were Tori and Terrel an item before?

    And Tigh's comment about being sick of seeing their faces. Could this be an indication that he might not have been in complete agreement with this plan before it was set in place?

    I've been approaching these guys as having never met before and just by chance were brought together. I'm starting to rethink that view....

    Mr BO

    Edited on 04/24/2008 4:47am
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  • Avatar of Vincent2013

    Vincent2013

    [110]Apr 24, 2008
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    Its funny, when you talk about if the five had a previous relationship prior to losing memory or whatever, I think about roswell and how the four aliens had different lives before they came to earth, but maybe your right I mean I can totally see that their potential cylon personalities are showing. Tori's free spirit, sensual, do whatever it takes attitude, Tighs indifference, Tyrol spirling madness, and Anders caring and kind side. Almost completely opposite to what there original attitudes were.
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    MrBovineOrdure

    [111]Apr 24, 2008
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    This will have a LOT to do with whether they age or not.

    Sure, Tigh could easily have been around 40 years ago, but Tori? She would have been a VERY young child if born at all. (Tori doesn't look like she's in her 40s). Anders would have been similarly young.

    If aging isn't an issue and they're like the Cylons in that aspect, then they could have known each other back then. If not and they DO age, then there has to be some way the Cylon final 5 keep continuity with themselves over the ages...

    Mr BO

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    Libaax

    [112]Apr 24, 2008
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    I think they age cause they are programmed to believe they are human from the get go. Dont know if that means they are programmed to grow like a human. Most likely it is so since for example Boomer had family history those who knew her knows. By the way they must age.

    Adama,Tigh has known eacother for many years. I doubt he looked like an old man all the time. It would be a clear give away him being a cylon. They are smarter than that with their programming them to believe they are human.

    Edited on 04/24/2008 8:07am
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  • Avatar of tripping82

    tripping82

    [113]Apr 24, 2008
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    MrBovineOrdure wrote:

    This will have a LOT to do with whether they age or not.

    Sure, Tigh could easily have been around 40 years ago, but Tori? She would have been a VERY young child if born at all. (Tori doesn't look like she's in her 40s). Anders would have been similarly young.

    If aging isn't an issue and they're like the Cylons in that aspect, then they could have known each other back then. If not and they DO age, then there has to be some way the Cylon final 5 keep continuity with themselves over the ages...

    Mr BO



    I think that this just means that the 4 were created over a decade or two and placed (very carefully) into the human population. They weren't all born on the same day.
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    hazelnut144

    [114]Apr 24, 2008
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    That makes sense. That they weren't all "inserted" into human population at the same time. I also think that Tigh, at least, might have originally been a real human. Because their skinjob experiments were just starting off at the end of the first cylon war according to Razor. And the way Sharon talks about the hybrid in Razor makes it seem like the attempt at hybrids came BEFORE skinjobs. So on the other hand, they COULD have maybe all been inserted in the population, but just at different starting ages. Maybe one of the things that distinguished the final five was that they were real people originally? It's a possibility.
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    Vincent2013

    [115]Apr 24, 2008
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    Thats interesting, so there would be no chance that the real version of these people are in the fleet?
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    jmac4ever

    [116]Apr 24, 2008
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    I've been toying with this whole "aging" aspect as well. It doesn't really apply much to the others, but we know that Tigh has been around for a while and has "aged." I wonder how long it will be before he ponders on that. I have considered that the final five were originally people, but that's kind of a stretch because there's no evidence to support it. One thing that is interesting to consider is that the final four that have been revealed all lived on New Caprica and fought in the resistance. One could argue that the real versions were replaced then with the cylon versions, but who replaced them? None of the other models even knew what the final five looked like at that point. One last thing, Dianna (sp) saw all of the final five, but there was one in particular she spoke to. She said, "I'm so sorry; I didn't know," or something to that affect. To me this implies that she did something particularly bad to one of the final five and didn't realize. Was she talking to the Tigh model? Or was she talking to someone else?
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    MrBovineOrdure

    [117]Apr 24, 2008
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    I think the common assumption was that she was speaking to Tigh for them ripping out his eye.

    Of course you know where assumptions will lead you.

    Mr BO

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    MichaudMR

    [118]Apr 24, 2008
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    There's another clue we need to add to this puzzle. Remember last season when the producers were making statements about what it means to be a Cylon? Add that to what we know about how Bill (Husker) Adama discovering the Cylon experiments during the war two generations ago and I suspect they've been living amongst the humans for a very long time.

    What if the "prisoners" Adama found weren't human but some kind of Cylon constructs? We never saw them being rescued so all we have to go on are their claims that they were taken and held by the Cylons.

    There are species of birds who lay their eggs in the nest of an unsuspecting host who will then raise the chick as its own, even when it kills the legitimate young and grows larger than the surrogate parents! What if the final five were somehow placed into the human population at birth and raised by unsuspecting parents? As one ages out and dies, it could be replaced by another Cylon infant in another family, with the latent programing still in place.

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    hazelnut144

    [119]Apr 24, 2008
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    As to the whole "I'm sorry, I had no idea", it looks to me like in that scene, whoever D'Anna apologized to, was raising a hand almost in forgiveness. Now knowing Tigh, does anyone think it likely he will EVER forgive the cylons? I mean true that it COULD be his final five godlike persona that was offering forgiveness, but that is just something to be thrown out there for consideration. The birds metaphor...I believe the most commonly used one is the cuckoo...there are some fairly creepy stories about cuckoos. And as to your point, its a possibility, assuming that the final five were developed separately from the seven, since we know that the seven humanoids weren't created until somewhere in between the two cylon wars. As for the prisoners, well I believe one of them was a little blond girl from what we could see...Six or Three?? It's definitely a possibility. Like they could have grown up to be Six or Three template. Or their DNA could have been somehow used to grow the bodies. Who knows.
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    123home123

    [120]Apr 24, 2008
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    And what about the prisoners on the "Guardian" Cylon base ship from "Razor"? Weren't the experiments continuing on that ship, or maybe I'm not remembering that scene correctly? Those are much more recent experiments.
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