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Discussion - "The Woman King" (2/11/07 episode) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of FrakkingFrakker

    FrakkingFrakker

    [21]Feb 9, 2007
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    123home123 wrote:
    And remember that Cottle was involved in the kidnapping of Hera. I doubt Athena and Helo trust Cottle that much.

    Trustworthy or not, Hera is a new species based on two different anatomical/biological systems. Cottle is, would be, the most knowledgable on the cylon portion of Hera's Genetic make-up. In my opinion that would trump whether he was knowledgable on babies or not.

    Also as was noted by a previous poster, I think Athena going off galactica to find care would definitely be inadvisable. And that would overcome any fear I would have of Cottle. I would keep my eyes on him.

    It seems that the writer's have allowed for different choices. However unbelievable they may be.

    I guess it's not possible...but...*giggling.* Maybe Athena's the one who dies. Not near a ressurection ship, she's mauled to death by an angry mob for being a cylon. Uniform or not, mob justice has always looked at skin color/race more than the stature or position of it's victims.

    And...that's prolly where I should stop this post.

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  • Avatar of Sarp87

    Sarp87

    [22]Feb 9, 2007
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    FrakkingFrakker wrote:

    Trustworthy or not, Hera is a new species based on two different anatomical/biological systems. Cottle is, would be, the most knowledgable on the cylon portion of Hera's Genetic make-up. In my opinion that would trump whether he was knowledgable on babies or not.
     


    Well i also think that there is a trust issue. It is not important that Cottle is the most experienced one in cylon genetics, the problem of Hera is not about her being half-cylon if it were the cylons would have cured her and Athena knows it, Hera's illness is related with her human portion. She probably has a common illness that every human baby has. So thats why Athena wont let Cottle take care of her daughter so this where (i think) Dr.Robert comes in.
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  • Avatar of gabfan31

    gabfan31

    [23]Feb 9, 2007
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    Considering how many people in the fleet they have in comparison to the few doctors, it could simply be about who has time to see her. She may be living on Galactica, but if Cottle was busy they may have had to take her to this other fellow.
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  • Avatar of wedgeantilles54

    wedgeantilles54

    [24]Feb 10, 2007
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    you guys have brought up some good points but you all seem to be forgeting that there is the whole baltar story still going on and that will play some role in this episode as well

    how much of the episode will focus on that who knows

    but i think the trial will either begin or preprations for it will be underway.

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  • Avatar of gabfan31

    gabfan31

    [25]Feb 10, 2007
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    Oh, I haven't forgotten about Baltar's trial, believe me. I'm looking forward to something that doesn't include Lee and Kara's dysfunctional relationships, as well as the satisfaction of seeing Baltar getting his just desserts. But there isn't as much mystery in that storyline that we know of at this point, so speculation makes more sense to me regarding Hera's illness and the accusations leveled against the doctor.

       

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  • Avatar of FrakkingFrakker

    FrakkingFrakker

    [26]Feb 10, 2007
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    Who could forget Baltar?...I'm just wondering how our allegory heavy friends will find the equivalent of a white bronco in the fleet.

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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [27]Feb 11, 2007
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    FrakkingFrakker wrote:

    Who could forget Baltar?...I'm just wondering how our allegory heavy friends will find the equivalent of a white bronco in the fleet.

    Well, since that reference is over 15 years old, I don't think we have to worry too much about it.

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [28]Feb 11, 2007
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    I think the white Bronco chase took place in 1994.

    Anyway, I'm glad the 2-week break is over. It's about time we had some new episodes of BSG.
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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [29]Feb 11, 2007
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    Did I miss an episode or something? In the "Previously on ..." segment there were at least three conversations that I don't remember ever happening before. They dealt with the Saggitarons being brought to Galactica, but they didn't really explain it well.

    Why are the Saggitarons being brought to Galactica? Also, it seemed like not all the refugees are Saggitarons but are other groups, as well. So, WHAT is going on here? Are they being quarantined because of their illnesses?

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  • Avatar of gcswift2

    gcswift2

    [30]Feb 11, 2007
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    I think they did that so they could just skip to the story, because I don't remember those conversations either. Did they put up a survivors number in this ep?
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  • Avatar of Tim_Bronx

    Tim_Bronx

    [31]Feb 11, 2007
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    I was so confused.  Did Sci Fi skip an episode?  Why are there tons of rufugees on Galactica?  The episode was good, but it felt out of place.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [32]Feb 11, 2007
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    I think you're right about the "Previously on BSG" segment. I don't think the scene of the refugees coming onboard Galactica ever appeared in any previous episodes. If so, this isn't the first time the producers have added new material to these "recap" segments.

    As for the reason why all of those civilians are living on Galactica, it's because of the destruction of the Battlestar Pegasus and possibly some other ships in "Exodus, Part 2." Many civilians fled New Caprica and there is no place to go except for Galactica. Some of us had been wondering about this and now the writers have addressed this issue.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [33]Feb 11, 2007
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    I liked this episode. There has been a lot of discussion about Helo on this forum and I'm sure on other BSG forums, about shooting Athena and about killing the Cylon prisoners to prevent the infection of the Cylon baseship. It's good to see that the writers tackled this matter head on.

    Helo is a complex character, and maybe the character most driven by his principles. Even from the very beginning in the miniseries, he was willing to sacrifice himself so that someone else could be saved. (He gave up his seat on Boomer's Raptor so that Baltar could be rescued. OK, maybe that wasn't such a good idea but he was trying to do the right thing at the time.)

    I admit that I was a little irritated by some of his actions in previous episodes but he sticks to his guns. In this episode, it ended up saving many innocent civilian lives. Though some might say that Dr. Robert had a point about the vaccine and the problems with treating Sagittarons, Helo (and Adama) would be right in rejecting Dr. Robert's reasoning. As Adama said before, cutting off the Sagittarons would destroy the souls of the leaders. And in this case, we are talking about fellow human beings, not Cylons.

    I find Helo and Athena's relationship to be more interesting than that of Lee and Kara because of the Cylon aspect. That element puts the relationship on an entirely different level (and it's certainly not something you would see on a soap opera).

    This episode would have even made a good storyline for a regular TV detective series.

    If I had a complaint, it was that there wasn't enough time to fully develop the side stories, like the understanding between Helo and Mrs. King. This could have made a pretty decent 90-min. episode. Even so, this was a very good episode. After the New Caprica and Final Five stories, it was good to get back to some of the problems in the fleet and away from the Cylon storyline. I'd give it about a 9.5.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [34]Feb 11, 2007
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    I saw the bonus scene on the Sci Fi broadcast but I didn't see any special videos on the SciFi.com site. Did anyone manage to see any new videos on the official website?
    Edited on 02/11/2007 8:39pm
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  • Avatar of maniac_____king

    maniac_____king

    [35]Feb 11, 2007
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    i agree the beginning made me doubt whether i had missed an episode or not.  this has happened several times whenever i watch that "previously ..."

    i feel the show could have done a lot better in introducing us to the appearance of the civilians.

    that aside, i thought this episode was excellent.  the ethical issues concerning the new doctor was amazing.
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  • Avatar of gcswift2

    gcswift2

    [36]Feb 11, 2007
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    While I generally agree with your critique of this episode, of all the plot points introduced in this episode the Caprica/Roslin one was the one I felt the most cheated with. When she was watching her saying that she was talking to someone but doesn't know who. Wouldn't Roslin recognize the behaviour of Caprica as something Balthar would do?

    I know that the Sagitarion setting was the most under developed (because of the lack of back story); but because of the missing backstory especially when you consider that Dee is sagitarion, it kinda allowed the writers to go anywhere they wanted to. I hope Balthar's trial allows them to flesh out this missing segment of thier culture.

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  • Avatar of wedgeantilles54

    wedgeantilles54

    [37]Feb 11, 2007
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    Well the baltar appreation is back, and that should prove to be interesting

    seems like helo and tigh have issues, but thats to be expected considering tigh's transformation since the begining of the season and the way helo seems to take on the ethical and moral problems faced by the fleet from a totaly different angle than everyone else

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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [38]Feb 11, 2007
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    Well i'm pleasantly pleased with this one and it didn't take Balthar to make it a good story.  I loved the social wrangling of selective treatment in the vein of social Darwinism vs the Hippocratic oath.  They had me going with Dee for a minute but as Helo so aptly put it she's one of the "good" ones missing the doctors racist wrath.  I'm glad Helo now has peace with being an outsider and the fleet hierarchy now have peace with him being an outsider as well.  Tigh getting punched out was wonderful I love his deliciously antagonistic character so that scene fit him perfectly.  I have to say this is the first episode in a long time for me where the drama seemed genuine and not force through exaggerated doom and gloom.  Without space fights and threats of nuclear annihilation they accomplished a much better than usual episode.
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  • Avatar of wwillow

    wwillow

    [39]Feb 12, 2007
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    I loved the private scenes between Helo and Sharon. Sharon showing a very “human” emotion being glad that the crew now had someone else, another group, that they could focus their angst against rather than her. Sharon asking, begging, Helo to go along with what everyone else thought so they would not turn against her once again.

    I enjoyed the scene with Six and Sharon. I was glad to see that Sharon had not tried to ignore her to help distance herself from Six. I hope she didn’t go simply because Roslin or someone asked her to. I’d like to see them have more conversations together. They both have a fondness for humans yet they’re fighting their battles from different sides.

    I also liked seeing Helo finally embrace the fact that he’s an outsider and that he stood up for his beliefs against his superiors – even against Sharon.

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  • Avatar of Ahny

    Ahny

    [40]Feb 12, 2007
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    gcswift2 wrote:
    While I generally agree with your critique of this episode, of all the plot points introduced in this episode the Caprica/Roslin one was the one I felt the most cheated with. When she was watching her saying that she was talking to someone but doesn't know who. Wouldn't Roslin recognize the behaviour of Caprica as something Balthar would do?

    Baltar was generally good at hiding the fact that he was talking to someone not in the room. He also generally knew when he was being watched. I did like the episode alot, and I'm surprised Dee wasn't in it more. Happy to see Lee sticking up for her though.

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