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Discussion - "Torn" (spoilers)

  • Avatar of DarqAli

    DarqAli

    [21]Nov 4, 2006
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    MIA since the escape from New Caprica is Hera.

    I hope some copy of Three is feeding her strained peas and changing her diaper, and she is not being kept in a vat of goo and being force grown to nubile young adulthood.

    However, my immediate thought upon hearing of the Cylon disease is that Hera's blood was able to cure Roslin's cancer; and so, reversing the issue, could not Hera's blood cure the Cylons?

    Baltar with the prodding of Head Six came up with the cure for Roslin, and now he and Hera are among the Cylons.

    Also: Did {will} Athena/Sharon get close enough to the diseased BAse Star to become ill? If she dies ....... will she download and wake up in a new body among the Cylons again? How wierd would that be?
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    phoenixp3k

    [22]Nov 4, 2006
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    Great episode! I like the whole "projection" thing. From a psychological perspective I understand how the Cylons have that conflictual nature. Everyone's on their own terms. I also liked the fact that the basestar "rebbeled" for a moment there.

    My important question is: What did Boomer/Athena said at the end of the episode. I listned to it four times and still can't make it out. Really at the very end before the "To be continued".
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  • Avatar of DarqAli

    DarqAli

    [23]Nov 4, 2006
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    She was quoting scripture, as she realized something was wrong on the Basestar. I couldn't catch the wording, but clearly, she was quoting something, one assumes from Pythia.
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  • Avatar of tvdavid

    tvdavid

    [24]Nov 4, 2006
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    DygitalNinja wrote:

    "oh no we can't use the virus then we'd be just like the CYLONs"...what is this dudes problem


    Pretty strange since they already used a virus against the Cylons in "Flight of the Phoenix"... funny how they never thought to try that again, when it worked so well.
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  • Avatar of DarqAli

    DarqAli

    [25]Nov 4, 2006
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    Random thought:

    If Athena/Sharon Agathon catches the virus and brings it back to Galactica, wouldn't we find out right away any other hidden cylons there ..... since they would {presumably} get it too, from her?

    Best guess: She doesn't
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  • Avatar of Darkness1234

    Darkness1234

    [26]Nov 4, 2006
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    DarqAli wrote:
    Random thought:

    If Athena/Sharon Agathon catches the virus and brings it back to Galactica, wouldn't we find out right away any other hidden cylons there ..... since they would {presumably} get it too, from her?

    Best guess: She doesn't


    That makes sense but what if it also effects humans as well? Baltar was in a spacesuit when he went into the base ship.

    People keep saying Baltar is evil but like Gaeta said "Baltar has a keen sense of self-preservation" which is why he wanted to find Earth. You got to admit Baltar already has a way to detect if anyone is a cyclon already, he just never shared it with anyone.

    From the Lion's Head to the blinking, so it seems Earth does exist in the new Battlestar Galactica. What I wanna know if when they left Kobalt, did the 13th Colony has far superior technology than the rest of the colonies.

    I was writing this and had a weird thought. The 13th colony left clues as to where they went, but also laid traps for AIs? (I says AIs since the base ship got fracked up after they took an object which is very old onboard) we got to wait till next week to find out if it also effects Humans.
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  • Avatar of vinsfins

    vinsfins

    [27]Nov 4, 2006
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         A sad but yet satisfying episode.  I think what makes me happiest was the return of the old Kara Thrace, symbolized by the cutting of her hair and visiting Kasey in the refugee center.  Her depressed state was starting to get on my nerves. Yes, she was incarcerated and played for a fool by the Cylons, but so were many others- get over it!  Also, Apollo finally losing the weight, all I can say is YAY! 

         However, I predict Tigh is going to kill himself- he doesn't seem to be able to get over his role in Ellen's murder, he might as well join her in their version of heaven (The Elysian Fields, perhaps?). My prediction will probably lead to a lot of furor so I might as well state my reasons why now and save typing resopnses. 1. His last words to Adama "The man you knew is dead, ... you'll never see me again" is a goodbye. The last person left in his life that had any meaning to him (Adama) just disowned him, what is the point in continuing to live.  2. His state during the episode, hearing Ellen, "seeing" Ellen, and at the end of the episode, shows a man in such a deep depression, that I don't see him ever getting out of it.  He may feel that the only way to stop feeling the way he does is to kill himself.  And if the religion they have on BSG is anything like Christianity, then he'll see Ellen again in the after life (I don't mean to push Christianity, its the only religion I'm familiar with- do other religions believe in a heaven? I don't know...).  Finally the most telling piece of information is that Michael Hogan is listed as a guest star, rather then as a regular character that he normally is. So he may commit suicide in the next episode, or he may have a diminished role in the show.  Im thinking suicide, simply because his character is too great to be only in a diminished capacity on the show.  So if he cant be on the show full time anymore, do away with him and not have him on the show.  Also, I checked future episodes-  he's not listed as a star or a guest star.... so sad

    Edited on 11/04/2006 7:25pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [28]Nov 4, 2006
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    I'm still a little wowed by the ep....

    I for one know that Adama did what he had to with Saul and Kara. It's benefits showed up almost immediately with Kara...but I just wish he hadn't 'disowned' her that way...I felt totally shaken for her in that moment. Knowing all that she's been through in her life...Hopefully later on they will make peace, I've always loved the bond they had.

    As for the Cylon stuff. That was thick, so very much to understand and process I'm not ever sure where to plant myself to analyze all of it!

    WOW...
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  • Avatar of ozwitch

    ozwitch

    [29]Nov 4, 2006
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    DarqAli wrote:
    She was quoting scripture, as she realized something was wrong on the Basestar. I couldn't catch the wording, but clearly, she was quoting something, one assumes from Pythia.


    "When God's anger awakens, even the mighty will fall."

    Make of it what you can.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [30]Nov 4, 2006
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    Actually it was:

    When God's anger awakens, even the mighty shall fall.

    I added it to the episode guide yesterday.

    To address the point about Michael Hogan, he has always been listed as a guest star in the opening credits. He isn't listed in future episodes on the guide here because I only add names once I have a verified source, either official previews or trusted websites. I'm pointing that out so no one gets confused about Michael Hogan's role.

    I don't know if Tigh will remain on the show but the cast lists for future episodes don't really provide any clues on this question.
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  • Avatar of JalineTV

    JalineTV

    [31]Nov 4, 2006
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    tommy0122 wrote:
    Great episode. It appears that Tigh is probably going to off himself. I don't see him coming around, so I think this is the only direction his character can go. I think Starbuck is going to shape up, however I wish she had not cut her hair. Long hair made her look a lot more feminine. With short hair, she looks a little too butchy for my tastes. As someone pointed out, the Cylons don't seem to have anyone in the leadership position. I wonder if Baltar will end up filling that role as in the first Battlestar Galactica series.


    That's exactly why Starbuck cut her hair...to not seem as feminine and instead revert to her old, taking-charge characteristic that makes her one of the best fighters among the humans.

    Also, I enjoyed that scene with Athena and Racetrack at the end. This episode, overall, was one of the most information-packed, especially in terms of the working of a cylon.
    Edited on 11/04/2006 8:54pm
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  • Avatar of job1point2

    job1point2

    [32]Nov 4, 2006
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    I like Tigh too. He's grown on me alot. He deserves more credit for rescueing everyone from New Caprica.
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  • Avatar of Chainblast

    Chainblast

    [33]Nov 5, 2006
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    I don't think Tigh is going to off himself, but things are going to get much worse with his situation.
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  • Avatar of cyberentity

    cyberentity

    [34]Nov 5, 2006
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    So, What does everyone think, if they find earth will they find our earth, or a futurestic earth with battlestars floating around it ?

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  • Avatar of bma00000

    bma00000

    [35]Nov 5, 2006
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    JalineTV wrote:
    Also, I enjoyed that scene with Athena and Racetrack at the end. This episode, overall, was one of the most information-packed, especially in terms of the working of a cylon.


    One would have expected that Racetrack wouldn't have been as keen to get out as a Raptor co-pilot for a Sharon again, considering what happened last time!

    And I don't know if they'll find earth this season or not. Personally, I think that there might be some offshoot colonies that they find along the way, similar to Terra in the original series. Regardless, something is going to have to happen to deal the space and resource consumption issues. They can't quite build new ships or hijack Cylon ships for use, so an immediate solution doesn't seem apparent, but imagining the rest of the series with people as tightly packed in as they are here doesn't seem quite that appealing.
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  • Avatar of amara0802

    amara0802

    [36]Nov 5, 2006
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    I think that weapon was left as a present for either the humans to use against the cylons or a weapon to destroy the cylons that might try to find the thirteenth colony. I love baltar, b/c he is such a complicated character, he loves a cylon but doesn't necessarily love the cylons, not any different really than helo, accept baltar has a penchant for self delusion and preservation. That is what is driving him, self-preservation, he didn't tell the cylons about the weapon b/c he knows in the end he might save his life. He might have a plan on how to use it if the cylons determine he must be executed or if he is captured by humans that he has valuable information that would preclude them from killing him.
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  • Avatar of DarqAli

    DarqAli

    [37]Nov 5, 2006
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    A question arises though:

    The beacon, or whatever it was that the dying basestar took on board ......... We must presume it was left by the Humans of the 13 th colony, as they went that way on their journey to Earth. Around 2000 years back, now, isn't it?

    Did the Cylons even exist, then?

    The 12 Colonies all settled with an area their ships could travel with ease. They never lost touch with one-another, and shared a common government, a unified whole, perhaps not unlike the 50 states of the United States share a common government, while having state governments too.

    But the 13 th colony left and lost all contact to the point, many, indeed most, consider Earth a legend, not a fact. There has {seemingly} been no contact since they left the others behind.

    So, why did they go so far away, and sever all ties?

    Did the Cylons exist in that time? My sense of the story was, no; that Cylons were "invented" by the Humans of the 12 Colonies much later - the Humans of the 13 th colony never had Cylon servants.

    Yet, now we have this "disease" afflicting Cylons, carried on a beacon or probe or whatever that thing was, which we presume was left "on the road to earth" by the 13 th Colony ages ago.

    Did they leave, because their group were "agaist" the creation of and use of Cylons as mechanical servants/slaves? Some among us have feared the "industrial revolution" and the "computer revolution". Many early Sci-Fi stories are about revolts by intelligent machines or computers. Earlier stories are about Humans rebelling against industrialization.

    This gives a REASON for leaving the infected beacon floating in space, and a REASON for having developed the "infectious" agent in the first place.

    If the Humans who went to Earth, the so-called "13 th Colony", took Cylon servants/slaves with them, the Human remnant population of the 12 Colonies can hardly be certain what they will find when the get to Earth. If THEIR Cylons rebelled and evoloved, they'd have to think perhaps the Cylons of the Earth colony eventually did, too.

    Again, my "guess" was, that Cylons only were created long after the 13 th Colony went their seperate way. But then, why would they leave the infected beacon, not knowing anything about Cylons that had not yet been invented, when they went that way? But if they left to be a seperate people BECAUSE they rejected Cylon technology, it might make sense. [Like, the Amish among us reject a lot of our modern technology, and live somewhat apart.]

    Then again, "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." Time in BSG's universe is not liniear. It goes in a circle .........
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  • Avatar of wedgeantilles54

    wedgeantilles54

    [38]Nov 5, 2006
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    How do we know that what ever infected the cylons from the beacon was intentional?

    It seems that everyone is asuming that but there are other possiblites such as raditation from the pulsars effecting something within the beacon or it being a natural pehomnenon from somewhere

    I think it is too early to asume ANYTHING about what is caused the Cylons on that base ship to die beyound it came from or with the beacon.

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  • Avatar of tommy0122

    tommy0122

    [39]Nov 5, 2006
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    JalineTV wrote:

    That's exactly why Starbuck cut her hair...to not seem as feminine and instead revert to her old, taking-charge characteristic that makes her one of the best fighters among the humans.


    I'm sure that was the thinking behind it, but she could still be a take-charge person without cutting her hair. After all, the now deceased admiral was a pretty kick-a## person and she did it with long hair. I think that Starbuck with short hair looks like a soccer player......just my opinion.
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  • Avatar of Durbola

    Durbola

    [40]Nov 5, 2006
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    The previous two posts ( 37&38 ) are quite correct in their observations that they is no proof that the virus/disease was intentional or that Cylons (Or an equivalent form of artifical life) was present before the splintering of the Thirteen tribes. For the first point I'm reminded of the New World during colonization when unintentionally the settlers brought with them European diseases that the natives had no natural immunity to and thus decimated the population of North America. This historical incident could be being mimiced through the introduction of the foreign beacon on the Cylon basestar. Also the affect on humans has yet to be determined since the original had no human subjects exposed to the disease and Baltar remained in his space suit during his entire stay on the ship while investigating. Thus it stands to reason that virus may also effect humans and thus reduces it potential as an intentional carrier step up by the thirteenth tribe (unless of course the thirteenth tribe left this device to prevent its pursuit by the other tribes....perhaps because of a political or religious schism that developed. (I am unfamiliar with the situation that provoked the exodus of the thirteenth as feel free to enlighten me). I agree with the assetment by GuyV23 in post 12 about the moral implications of using the virus and eye for an eye justice. The Cylons have retreated from their belief in the total anniliation of the human species, settling for cross-species breeding instead, and the comments of a Doral that they only adopted their violent nature from their parents, humans, would be justified if they pursued this course of action and renew Cylon determination to drive the human race to extinction. Currently, the fleet is only a nuisance to the Cylons and its true threat generations away when the humans may return seeking revenge (one cylon spoke of the passing down of stories through the generations for this purpose), by using the virus they would become an immediate threat that significant resources would be used to eliminate. This complicates things further since the weaponization of the virus would be difficult, though its spread easy if indeed it downloads to the new hosts, which would suggest some more sophisticated than a biological or chemical agent, but something the corrupts the mind and causes the body to malfunction and destroy itself. (which would make it possible to transfer the resurrection ship). In closing I'll reference another historical episode, where disease was used as a weapon, the British sent blankets infected with smallpox to the natives involved with the Pontiac rebellion "as both sides seemed intoxicated with genocidal fanaticism." (David Dixon) This fanaticism and lust for revenge that could grip the fleet would led to its downfall since every victory would be a pyrrhic one and in the course of the crusade bleed themselves dry.

    Thanks again for suffering through another one of my long posts, sadly in Canada we receive the broadcast a day later than our US counterparts and thus I avoid these threads until I've been able to view the episode myself, which accounts for my long ramblings.
    Edited on 11/05/2006 10:06am
    Edited 2 total times.
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