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Discussion - "Unfinished Business" (spoilers) (12/1/06 episode)

  • Avatar of GuyV23

    GuyV23

    [21]Dec 1, 2006
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    Man what a great episode It leaves me wondering so many things the top of which were do Apollo and Starbuck go from here they nearly killed each other only to realize they still have a flame that burns for the other it a diminished flame but a flame nonetheless and what does the mean for D's and Apollo's Marriage and for that matter Starbuck and Anders.
    Edited on 12/01/2006 7:15pm
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  • Avatar of Enigma0609

    Enigma0609

    [22]Dec 1, 2006
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    GuyV23 wrote:
    Apollo and Starbuck...realize they still have a flame that burns for the other it a diminished flame but a flame nonetheless and what does the mean for D's and Apollo's Marriage and for that matter Starbuck and Anders.

    I honestly thought they were talking about missing each other as friends. As for the Kara/Lee storyline in general, wow! I'm not often surprised by TV anymore.

    It's so funny to me that I just signed up for the Starbuck fan club today and challenged an assertion that she had commitment issues. Well, color me embarrassed! Her marriage to Anders after her night with Lee seems like a desperate act brought on by, well, fear of truly committing her heart. I'm not saying she doesn't love Anders, but I think her feelings for Lee run a little deeper. I'm not sure what role, if any, Zack Adama plays in this. I have a theory that Kara was too afraid of marrying Lee and then losing him like she did his brother.

    (Don't worry, trackstarbuck, I'm still a die-hard Kara fan!)

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  • Avatar of Tim_Bronx

    Tim_Bronx

    [23]Dec 1, 2006
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    I thought it was a good episode episode.  I love Starbuck and Lee's love-hate relationship.  I can't believe what Starbuck did.  She never fails to surprise me.

    Why though are Tv.com users rating this episode as a 7.1?  It deserves a lot better than that!
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  • Avatar of lowjack9

    lowjack9

    [24]Dec 1, 2006
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    One of the BEST episodes of BSG I've seen yet. Once again proving that this show is the BEST series on television-PERIOD.
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  • Avatar of annpo

    annpo

    [25]Dec 2, 2006
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    This is pretty much the best ep of anything I've ever watched.

    Hopefully now that the air is cleared - even if the bruises are going to take considerably longer to fade - Lee and Kara can move on.

    Kara's pretty much tossed Anders aside, now all Lee has to do is rid himself of that limpid limpit he's married to and they can move on.

    Loved all the Adama/Roslin time too. That's a relationship that could use some more air time for development.
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  • Avatar of Obaida

    Obaida

    [26]Dec 2, 2006
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    Am I the only one who can't stand Starbuck? What an annoying beotch. And the fight between her and Adama Jr. was ridiculous. Let's be real here. She would have her ass laid out by that guy in about 37 seconds (margin of error: + or - 4 seconds). What a joke. Overall, maybe the weakest episode of BSG I've ever seen.

    Of course, that's just my opinion. Feel free to form your own.
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  • Avatar of boombye

    boombye

    [27]Dec 2, 2006
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    All that aside Obaida, how did you feel about their relationships with each other, like kara and lee, and adama and roslin, etc.. Did that not make up for the episode? Can't they be granted an episode full of peace and at the same time tension, I mean after all those flashbacks, they're still in a war. I think being able to see them happy for a time was pretty cool.
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  • Avatar of havasi_szilard

    havasi_szilard

    [28]Dec 2, 2006
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    annpo wrote:
    Loved all the Adama/Roslin time too. That's a relationship that could use some more air time for development.


    I agree with annpo, I've been waiting for that to happen since a long time now, and I'm happy it actually did happen after all. As said every great man has a woman behind him, and Adama's character was missing out on this.

    After this emotionally shocking episode, I'm really looking forward to the following one!
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  • Avatar of Obaida

    Obaida

    [29]Dec 2, 2006
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    boombye wrote:
    All that aside Obaida, how did you feel about their relationships with each other, like kara and lee, and adama and roslin, etc.. Did that not make up for the episode? Can't they be granted an episode full of peace and at the same time tension, I mean after all those flashbacks, they're still in a war. I think being able to see them happy for a time was pretty cool.


    It's quite possible that my intense dislike for Starbuck and the scene with her and Lee is coloring my opinion of the entire episode, especially since the entire episode seemed to build towards it. However, you are right that there were redeeming qualities especially the one you mentioned: the relationship between Roslin and Adama. Their interaction has been one of the best things on the show and they are by far my two favorite characters (in fact, Roslin is my favorite female character on ANY television show).


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  • Avatar of gcswift2

    gcswift2

    [30]Dec 2, 2006
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    Obaida wrote:
    Am I the only one who can't stand Starbuck? What an annoying beotch.

    No your not alone. The writers wanted us to dislike her; but not hate her, during this episode. To that effect I say job well done. If there was any flaw to this ep. I'd say that it was one for fans of the show, meaning if you were not a fan this episode would not convince you, meaning there were too many insider references. Having been a fan since the mini-series I think I caught most of them, but I've never really liked the Kara/Lee pairing. While Katee Sackoff is an actor with charisma that translates across into her portrayal of Starbuck; Jaime Bamber always comes across flat. Maybe its that he's too concerned with imitating a North American accent, but he never seems to match the intesity when it comes to his lines. This episode was good for him in the aspect that most of his part was either 1) fighting, or 2) nonverbal reactions. As far as Starbuck is concerned the charisma that I spoke of earlier has been her crutch and her undoing. In times where she should be vulnerable and open that charisma just makes it harder to feel sympathy for her. There are many times when I was just plain annoyed by her recklessness being confused for courage. Nerves of steel are one thing but those with that attribute don't emotionally vomit on the shoes of everyone around them.

    At the beginning I noted what the writers intent were, this was based on the premise that everyone liked Kara. If you are like me who before this episode didn't like her, then this episode just gave you and me more reason not to like her if not hate her.

    On another note:

    • I was happy to see Athena accepted into the Family
    • The Stoned Admiral........... "Cool"
    • Roslin and Adama make an interesting couple. I hope they explore that relationship.
    • I felt sick having to watch D watch her husband comit adultury. The writers atleast had the decency to let Anders leave the room.
    • Tyrol beat up a senior citizen.
    • Bulldog might have had a chance if he would have thrown a punch. They were supposed to be boxing.
    • If they are boxing why is Starbuck kicking. Noone else is kicking. She didn't kick bulldog. WTF.
    • I want to see what happens between Dualla and Lee now.
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  • Avatar of tommy0122

    tommy0122

    [31]Dec 2, 2006
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    Obaida wrote:
    Am I the only one who can't stand Starbuck? What an annoying beotch. And the fight between her and Adama Jr. was ridiculous. Let's be real here. She would have her ass laid out by that guy in about 37 seconds (margin of error: + or - 4 seconds). What a joke. Overall, maybe the weakest episode of BSG I've ever seen.

    Of course, that's just my opinion. Feel free to form your own.

    No you are certainly not the only one. I don't care for the Starbuck character either. She's way too butchy, she hates herself and most everyone else and has absolutely no respect for any kind of authority. The only thing this character has going for her is being an ace pilot. They softened her up a little with long hair for a while, but she cut it off and is back to looking like a guy with an attitude again. Are those tattoos real or just for the show?

    I didn't particularly like this episode. A whole hour of boxing is a bit much, although it did provide some more insight. I hope the writers aren't running out of ideas. Some of my favorite characters on BSG are the Cylons, and there was no mention of them at all. They could have left out a couple of rounds and flashed to the Cylons for a minute.
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  • Avatar of praisechorus

    praisechorus

    [32]Dec 2, 2006
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    Another great episode. If you like Galactica for what it is, great characters and unexpected developement not only spaceshipbashing.

    What really thrilled me was that you even could see, Karas scar from "The Farm" on her belly.

    She is now Captain and Apollo is Major. Though Adama is still Admiral, how come?
    Isnt Lee still supposed to be Commander ?
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  • Avatar of SweetOlBob

    SweetOlBob

    [33]Dec 2, 2006
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    wedgeantilles54 wrote:

    I think that this episode is going to answer alot of questions about what happen durring the 4 months we missed between season 2 and 3, but why have it focus on a boxing match?

    "Love is a battlefield!"

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [34]Dec 2, 2006
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    I got more than a little annoyed with Starbuck too. Though a Viper pilot (or any fighter pilot for that matter) needs to be confident and aggressive, it's still not easy to watch how selfish Kara can be. She is stunted emotionally.

    Even so, I enjoyed the episode. At first I found the flashbacks distracting but as they began to focus on Lee and Kara, the story came into focus. I actually felt bad for Dee, as she was publicly humilated by Lee and Kara. She didn't deserve that.

    I was surprised to see Adama's reaction to Tyrol. I hadn't really seen that resentment before. Maybe there should have been a hint at it in a previous episode. Adama's getting beat up a lot these days. First Bulldog and now Tyrol. Take it easy, old man!

    It was good to see Tigh taking part in the tournament as the referee. It confirms that he is no longer sitting by himself in his quarters sulking and drinking. Though he'll always have some anger and sorrow about New Caprica and Ellen, he seems to have turned the corner.

    A final note: I couldn't help thinking about what was going on in Edward James Olmos' head as they filmed the fight between Starbuck and Hot Dog. (Hot Dog is played by Olmos' real-life son, Bodie.) His real-life son was portrayed as getting his butt whupped by a woman. You can talk about adrenaline in her fight with Lee, but Kara doesn't have any special relationship or hatred for Hot Dog. He turned out to be a bit of a wuss. No wonder Adama was so ticked off.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [35]Dec 2, 2006
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    A question: Who was Kat's opponent, the one she pummeled into the ground? It sort of looked like Racetrack but I couldn't really see her face.
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  • Avatar of Enigma0609

    Enigma0609

    [36]Dec 2, 2006
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    Wow! Awesome Discussion. I want to respond to so much, so here goes.

    gcswift2 wrote:
    If there was any flaw to this ep. I'd say that it was one for fans of the show, meaning if you were not a fan this episode would not convince you, meaning there were too many insider references. Having been a fan since the mini-series I think I caught most of them…

    I watched this with my best friend, who'd never seen an episode. The women intrigued her, so I explained the background of some characters: Kara Thrace's complicated emotions, Laura Roslin's personality-equal parts lamb and lioness, Dualla (Adama?)'s grace and patient love.

    Anyway, it's a good thing I bought the last 2 seasons because she's now hooked to the show!

    123home123 wrote:
    I actually felt bad for Dee, as she was publicly humilated by Lee and Kara. She didn't deserve that.

    I agree. Dee’s not my favorite character, but she has been nothing but devoted and supportive to Lee.

    Side note: I just realized Dee is now Dualla Adama, and that as a married couple they are Lee and Dee. (Shudder)

    123home123 wrote:
    I was surprised to see Adama's reaction to Tyrol. I hadn't really seen that resentment before. Maybe there should have been a hint at it in a previous episode.

    I thought the point of his aggression towards Tyrol in the ring was to prove that “when you fight a man, you’re not his friend” (Adama said something along those lines). All the flashbacks seemed to indicate that, if anything, their relationship improved during the previously unseen months.

    Edited on 12/02/2006 9:55am
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  • Avatar of wedgeantilles54

    wedgeantilles54

    [37]Dec 2, 2006
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    123home123 wrote:
    A question: Who was Kat's opponent, the one she pummeled into the ground? It sort of looked like Racetrack but I couldn't really see her face.
    I think you are right that it was racetrack

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  • Avatar of Enigma0609

    Enigma0609

    [38]Dec 2, 2006
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    gcswift2 wrote:
    …I've never really liked the Kara/Lee pairing. While Katee Sackoff is an actor with charisma that translates across into her portrayal of Starbuck; Jaime Bamber always comes across flat. Maybe its that he's too concerned with imitating a North American accent, but he never seems to match the intesity when it comes to his lines. This episode was good for him in the aspect that most of his part was either 1) fighting, or 2) nonverbal reactions.

    Bamber's acting reminds me a lot of James Marsden, whose acting comes across as flat sometimes if his acting partner is too charismatic. Quick example, in X-men, he didn't match Famke Janssen's (Jean Grey) or Hugh Jackman's (Wolverine) intensity whenever he was on screen with either of them.  In contrast, I think he outshined Kate Bosworth (Lois Lane)in Superman Returns...just my personal opinion.    

    gcswift2 wrote:
    As far as Starbuck is concerned...There are many times when I was just plain annoyed by her recklessness being confused for courage. Nerves of steel are one thing but those with that attribute don't emotionally vomit on the shoes of everyone around them.

    123home123 wrote:
    Though a Viper pilot (or any fighter pilot for that matter) needs to be confident and aggressive, it's still not easy to watch how selfish Kara can be. She is stunted emotionally.

    You're both right, Starbuck is only a sympathetic character if you cut her a hell of a lot of slack for her difficult childhood.  I think the writers should be careful, before they "remove all reason and accountability" (Melvin Udall (Jack Nicholson)- As Good As It Gets). 

    gcswift2 wrote:
    If they are boxing why is Starbuck kicking. Noone else is kicking. She didn't kick bulldog. WTF.

    The kicking is actually one of my arguments for Kara being able to stay in the ring with Lee ‘til the end. Otherwise,

    obaida wrote:
    ...she would have her ass laid out by that guy in about 37 seconds (margin of error: + or - 4 seconds).

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  • Avatar of BrockenJR

    BrockenJR

    [39]Dec 2, 2006
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    Oh...my god, what a bad episode. I guess the continous winning streak for season 3 has finally been broken. First off, the good parts about this episode were the Adama+Laura relationship, that's always a plus in my book. Aside from that, nothing else springs to mind. As I watched the flashbacks one by one, at five minutes into the episode, I screamed "OH MY GOD, A LEE-CENTRIC EPISODE!"...well, we've thankfully never had suffer much of Lee in this season, so I guess this is due. I really, really dislike both Starbuck and Lee. Heck, I disliked them since the beginning of the series. They're both incompetent dim-witted morons (compare their decision making skills to Adama, Tigh, Laura)...and that, ironically, makes them very suited for each other. However, this continous dance of on an off relationship is making me puke. Get this over with, already. It's so fricking obvious that they will end up together it borders on contrived. I deduce that even should Lee end up on a Cylon fleet millions of lightyears away with no hope of getting rescued, he WILL find a way to get back to her. Not because it's romantic, but because they had 'COUPLE' written on their foreheads since season one. Despite starbuck sleeping around ALOT (his brother, her current husband, whatever cylon did her in the farm, i even suspected she put the moves on Adama) it's so predictably easy to see that they will end up together. Jeez, now I have to wait another week before I can get Starbuck's goofy grin out of my head....
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [40]Dec 2, 2006
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    my new 2nd favorate episode! 10! no... 100! its like sarcastic-drinking-fraking-ruining-jealousing(w/e)-running-fighting- .... story of my life so all praise starbuck and lee is forgiven!

    and i loved the scene where lee and dee are walking down the path on new caprica and they`re all talking about how its improved and the weather and crap and they look so formal and military material. and then kara and sam show up! and shes got a cigar hanging out of her mouth and he is sarcastically reading their little "all praise baltar" celebration thingy and they`re both just "screw this" and then dee says there is beer and kara`s face just lights up and she drags the woman away to go get drunk. AWSOME! i just want to know what her and dee talked about at that point...

    [QUOTE="Enigma0609"]

    GuyV23 wrote:

    (Don't worry, trackstarbuck, I'm still a die-hard Kara fan!)

    once you discover the magic there is not turning back.
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