Discussion - "Unfinished Business" (spoilers) (12/1/06 episode)

  • Avatar of MonteBear

    MonteBear

    [61]Dec 4, 2006
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    flynikeguy wrote:
    Not to change the subject or anything, but I'm more than a little confused with Kara's decision to rush off and marry Anders. I've been trying to work it out but it still puzzles me. Why would she want to hurt Lee like that? Also, I get that she has commitment issues, but by not being with someone you confess your love to by running off and marrying someone else? WTF? Any thoughts?

    Marrying Anders is her way of protecting her heart.  She likes Anders, maybe even loves him to some extent - but I don't think it is as deep as her emotional attachment to Lee.  There is a huge difference between loving a man and being in love with a man - I think the later applies to Lee.  And she has known Lee and his father a long time and probably fears disappointing them as much as she feels she's let herself down.  She knows when she finally makes a committment to Lee that it has to last and she's just not ready for that...yet.  Just my opinion.

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  • Avatar of ko-9

    ko-9

    [62]Dec 4, 2006
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    I sincerely respect the opinions of those who enjoyed this episode. I did not. I simply do not care that much about the character's love interests or who gets married to who and why. It's starting to look a bit like a soap opera and that's just not my cup of tea. I'm not a cold fish though, and there were some moments that did move me emotionally throughout the series but this episode just doesn't do it for me. At the very least Bill Adama standing in the ring, face bloodied and exhausted, giving an inspirational speech about military leadership did work for me on some levels but I found the rest of the episode with the flashbacks a bit slow and drawn out for my tastes.

    I feel that devoting an entire episode to this type of character development a bit excessive.

    As a post scriptum, I have no problems with people disagreeing with me on this and I'm not trying to start arguments either since this is an entirely subjective matter.
    Edited on 12/04/2006 5:22pm
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  • Avatar of ozwitch

    ozwitch

    [63]Dec 5, 2006
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    Kounji wrote:
    Hmm my only beef with this entire episode was that with all the tension that was there from having Athena on the ship why didn't anyone want to throw their tags in against her.


    I thought the Apollo/Helo stoush was an indirect reference to that. Apollo didn't hide his mistrust of Athena and Helo called him to account for it in the ring?
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  • Avatar of Angusto

    Angusto

    [64]Dec 5, 2006
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    ozwitch wrote:
    Kounji wrote:
    Hmm my only beef with this entire episode was that with all the tension that was there from having Athena on the ship why didn't anyone want to throw their tags in against her.


    I thought the Apollo/Helo stoush was an indirect reference to that. Apollo didn't hide his mistrust of Athena and Helo called him to account for it in the ring?


    I agree with this assumption. I figured that Athena couldn't enter herself because as a cylon she would have an unfair strength advantage that could harm anyone she fights, so Helo was doing all her fighting for her.
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  • Avatar of phoneguytim

    phoneguytim

    [65]Dec 5, 2006
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    flynikeguy wrote:
    Not to change the subject or anything, but I'm more than a little confused with Kara's decision to rush off and marry Anders. I've been trying to work it out but it still puzzles me. Why would she want to hurt Lee like that?

    Also, I get that she has commitment issues, but by not being with someone you confess your love to by running off and marrying someone else? WTF? Any thoughts?


    I don't know either. She has so much history with Lee--I have no idea why she wouldn't take the time to explain herself to him. By the way, does anyone else think it strange that Kara and Lee fought to a tie? I guess they needed that for the storyline... but come on, physically, there wouldn't be a stalemate. I think it would have worked much better for Lee to have boxed her to the point that she could not get up--and then reach down, help her up and tell her that he missed her. That would have brought about the same emotions that the stalemate did and would have been much closer to the reality of the physical differences.
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  • Avatar of MonteBear

    MonteBear

    [66]Dec 5, 2006
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    phoneguytim wrote:
    I don't know either. She has so much history with Lee--I have no idea why she wouldn't take the time to explain herself to him. By the way, does anyone else think it strange that Kara and Lee fought to a tie? I guess they needed that for the storyline... but come on, physically, there wouldn't be a stalemate. I think it would have worked much better for Lee to have boxed her to the point that she could not get up--and then reach down, help her up and tell her that he missed her. That would have brought about the same emotions that the stalemate did and would have been much closer to the reality of the physical differences.

    I know that most people would think that a fight (man vs. woman) would have to end up with the man winning - which I might say would be the case a good part of the time.  However, Kara works out just as hard as Lee and they are somewhat close in size, so in reality she could probably hold her own against him.  As far as him beating her down and then offering a hand up - that's a good idea too, but maybe that would have left Kara somewhat dissatisfied still - then we'd have to see this again in the future.  This way she knows they both won in a sense.

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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [67]Dec 5, 2006
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    We`ve been over the "man vs. woman" thing on here before and i really don`t understand what is up with poeple thinking the man is just going to win because.

    flynikeguy wrote:
    Not to change the subject or anything, but I'm more than a little confused with Kara's decision to rush off and marry Anders. I've been trying to work it out but it still puzzles me. Why would she want to hurt Lee like that?

    Also, I get that she has commitment issues, but by not being with someone you confess your love to by running off and marrying someone else? WTF? Any thoughts?

    sane people wouldn`t understand...
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  • Avatar of Branstrom

    Branstrom

    [68]Dec 5, 2006
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    Why the _frack_ does this have a 7.92 rating? This was one of the best episodes this season...
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [69]Dec 5, 2006
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    Branstrom wrote:
    Why the _frack_ does this have a 7.92 rating? This was one of the best episodes this season...

    I KNOW! what is wrong with people!?
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  • Avatar of Glenn11523

    Glenn11523

    [70]Dec 6, 2006
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    I fully agree that Tigh getting in the ring to referee the "dance" was nice to see. 

    Understanding (finally) what led Apollo to marry Dee was also good.  I got that Kara had fallen for Anders and so they made sense, but Apollo winding up with Dee was nagging at me. 

    He was sucker-punched by Kara with that move and the resentment he would have had (should have had) seems unlikely to be mended by one boxing match.  I predict he won't be letting it go just yet, despite their mutual admission of missing each other.

    Dee is not my favorite character, but she sure deserved better than have to stand by and watch Apollo basically screw Starbuck in public.  I completely agree with the others here who have said as much.

    I think Adama taking it out on the chief was because he feels he has been too soft on everyone lately, including himself.   He regretted allowing himself to get more emotionally involved with Rosalyn, that is why when he leaves the ring he addresses her as "Madame President" he wants to get back to business.  His comment to the chief of "get your lazy a** up here" was (I believe) in reference to the fact that in the past the chief would never have left a wounded bird on the deck to go for some entertainment and would never have tolerated such action from anyone assigned to do the work.

    They have all gotten too close, too intertwined and too soft.  All of that will make you weak in battle.

    The Cylons are not eliminated as a threat and when they come (and come they will) BSG and the fleet had better be ready.  Personal dramas aside, the only enemy worth really fighting is complacency.  Adama has modeled for everyone that those days are over!


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  • Avatar of starwolf99

    starwolf99

    [71]Dec 6, 2006
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    Memorable Moment: Adama clocks Tyrol to the ground, with one punch, in front of Hot Dog.  As if to say simultaneously to Tyrol, "This is your wake-up call, Chief" and to Hot Dog (played by Olmos' real-life son), "That is how you hit someone, son."
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  • Avatar of Obaida

    Obaida

    [72]Dec 6, 2006
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    MonteBear wrote:
    I know that most people would think that a fight (man vs. woman) would have to end up with the man winning - which I might say would be the case a good part of the time. However, Kara works out just as hard as Lee and they are somewhat close in size, so in reality she could probably hold her own against him.


    Somewhat close in size? His arms are the size of her legs. How is that close? I assume you mean they are of similar height, which is only relevant in this case (boxing) as it applies to reach. Except I don't even think that's true. He's probably got 2 maybe 2.5 inches on her. Working out is fine for staying in shape, but that doesn't make you a great boxer or fighter.

    This isn't even completely about the man vs. woman dynamic (although that's certainly relevant to anyone being even remotely realistic). Forget that for a second. You know why boxing has weight classes? Because people of vastly different weights fighting is extremely unfair. That's why watching the lower weight classes can sometimes be more exciting. They can take more hard shots because the force behind those shots is less (F=ma, Force = mass x acceleration. Mass goes up, so does force [assuming acceleration is constant]). If a heavyweight gets in a REALLY good shot, even on another heavyweight, it's often over right there. Guy drops like he was hit by a Mack Truck because, Good God, that's probably what it felt like.

    Now, I'm no expert at estimating weights, but I figure Lee to have what, AT LEAST 50 pounds on Starbuck, maybe more. Come on. Tough girl or not, he would have snapped her whiny ass like a twig.

    And as far as men and women are concerned, it's certainly not automatic that a man will beat a woman, but let's be honest. An "average" man is usually physically superior to an "average" woman and male world-class athletes are usually physically superior to female world-class athletes. They're stronger, faster, etc. Look at the finishing times for Olympic sprints, marathons, weight lifting and any other competitions where they play the same sport (same rules and regs). I mean, a HIGH SCHOOL men's hockey team beat the US OLYMPIC women's hockey team 2-1 earlier this year, and that was with no checking allowed. So while it's completely ridiculous to assume that all men are superior to all women, it's also ridiculous to pretend there aren't physical differences that translate into different abilities.

    I promise that's the last I say about this subject because, frankly, I'm tired of hearing myself speak (or maybe type? I AM a noisy typist), so I can only imagine how nauseated the rest of you are.

    On another subject, I might be wrong, but I interpreted the Adama/Chief fight like this:

    1. Adama challenges Chief, and then knocks him on his ass HARD to get him pissed off and have Tyrol fight back for real.
    2. Adama lets Tyrol kick his ass without really putting up a fight so he can...
    3. Give his bloody speech (no pun intended) to let the BSG people know that WE'RE FIGHTING CYLONS dammit! Get it together!

    Mainly this based on Adama Sr. holding his own against Adama Jr. in another episode and my belief that Adama Jr. would beat the Chief. Probably quite convincingly.

    Sorry for the thesis.
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [73]Dec 6, 2006
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    i`m facing that men are physiclly capable of becoming stronger easier. but the woman isn`t going to win just because it`s a "weak man" or a "strong woman". fighting is about how far your soul is willing to go to see victory.
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  • Avatar of gcswift2

    gcswift2

    [74]Dec 6, 2006
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    trackstarbuck wrote:
    i`m facing that men are physiclly capable of becoming stronger easier. but the woman isn`t going to win just because it`s a "weak man" or a "strong woman". fighting is about how far your soul is willing to go to see victory.

    Did Mick say that to Rocky? Those movies are some of my favorite science fiction. There are people out there who argue all day about about the impossibility of warp drive, but will automatically accept that Rocky would beat Apollo (2x), Clubber Lang, Ivan Drago, Tommy, and the New Guy in rocky 6. There are two reasons Starbuck lasted 30sec. The first is that Most men won't initially hit a woman with full force even in a boxing match. The second is that while Apollo was boxing Starbuck was using Kickboxing, Muy Thai, and Capoeira techniques.

    I'll admit that she has been blessed/ cursed with a good hard head, and as my Father would say "A hard head makes a soft tail", but her standing after a Real punch from Lee who is significantly larger and stronger than she.................... is really science fiction. 

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  • Avatar of MonteBear

    MonteBear

    [75]Dec 6, 2006
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    Obaida wrote:

    Somewhat close in size? His arms are the size of her legs. How is that close? I assume you mean they are of similar height, which is only relevant in this case (boxing) as it applies to reach. Except I don't even think that's true. He's probably got 2 maybe 2.5 inches on her. Working out is fine for staying in shape, but that doesn't make you a great boxer or fighter.

    Alright, alright, after you put it in "boxing terms" I guess I really have to acquiesce and say you're correct.  As I was reading your comment I was trying to picture myself in a ring with my brother (about the same difference in size as Lee and Kara) and I got kind of nervous.

    ....although she does have some serious anger issues - and even more serious pride issues, which could contribute to her getting up off the floor and trying to continue the fight. 

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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [76]Dec 6, 2006
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    gcswift2 wrote:

    trackstarbuck wrote:
    i`m facing that men are physiclly capable of becoming stronger easier. but the woman isn`t going to win just because it`s a "weak man" or a "strong woman". fighting is about how far your soul is willing to go to see victory.

    Did Mick say that to Rocky? Those movies are some of my favorite science fiction. There are people out there who argue all day about about the impossibility of warp drive, but will automatically accept that Rocky would beat Apollo (2x), Clubber Lang, Ivan Drago, Tommy, and the New Guy in rocky 6. There are two reasons Starbuck lasted 30sec. The first is that Most men won't initially hit a woman with full force even in a boxing match. The second is that while Apollo was boxing Starbuck was using Kickboxing, Muy Thai, and Capoeira techniques.

    I'll admit that she has been blessed/ cursed with a good hard head, and as my Father would say "A hard head makes a soft tail", but her standing after a Real punch from Lee who is significantly larger and stronger than she.................... is really science fiction.


    if i respond to that in any other possible way home will kick me off of the board for good.
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  • Avatar of Reever42

    Reever42

    [77]Dec 6, 2006
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    blackeyedgurl wrote:

    I love in the commercial when Helo says "It looks like they want to kill each other" and Dualla says "Well, that's one theory."

    Was it Helo or Anders?

     Overall I thought it was an average show. Was this the first episode without a single "evil" cylon? (Baltar is not a confirmed cylon, lol)

    I have to agree with some others about this being a filler episode. It clearly was an episode that completely existed on it's own and didn't continue any driving topics from the previous episode. Unfinished Business, The Flashback episode.

    Good Hunting.

    --
    Reever42

    Edited on 12/06/2006 9:30pm
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  • Avatar of DrLar

    DrLar

    [78]Dec 7, 2006
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    vinan wrote:
    This sounds like a classic Battlestar Filler, but I enjoy most of then so it should be good.


    Yeah I felt that it was a filler episode, no advance in the storyline at all, in fact they go backwards.

    I'm not a big boxing fan so I didn't like the episode much.

    So Kara and Lee love each other to death? (literally?). At the end it seems they made up so are they going to get together romantically? what about Lee's partner? I know Kara already left hers so we'll see.

    And Admiral Adama taking a beating to make a point... not so good.
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [79]Dec 7, 2006
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    DrLar wrote:
    vinan wrote:
    This sounds like a classic Battlestar Filler, but I enjoy most of then so it should be good.


    Yeah I felt that it was a filler episode, no advance in the storyline at all, in fact they go backwards.

    I'm not a big boxing fan so I didn't like the episode much.

    So Kara and Lee love each other to death? (literally?). At the end it seems they made up so are they going to get together romantically? what about Lee's partner? I know Kara already left hers so we'll see.

    And Admiral Adama taking a beating to make a point... not so good.

    it was a story meant for fight-luvers and k/l shippers.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [80]Dec 7, 2006
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    I think a lot of people are upset by the boxing theme in this episode. Though I'm not a boxing fan either, I think it's entirely realistic to have such a boxing tournament. Adama has been shown to be an enthusiastic fan of boxing in the past, and most if not all military organizations have boxing tournaments.
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