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Episode 2-20 "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2" discussion (spoilers)

  • Avatar of jkmatrix

    jkmatrix

    [81]Mar 14, 2006
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    DocMartigan wrote:
    jkmatrix wrote:
    isnt there anyone else questioning why Adama didnt take Roslin's word seriously that Baltar was working with the cylons? He said there was no proof. Did they need proof when they locked up the Chief before? Adama knew that Roslin's visions were real yet he didnt even suspect Baltar of having anything to do with warhead's detonation. he said it might have been stolen. what happened to adama? its like he was helpless to follow Baltar's orders. the only logical explanation for this is that he is in fact a cylon just like the other cylon, who predicted correctly that they will find Kobol and the map to earth, whispered to Roslin.


    Adama didn't need proof. I am pretty sure he believed her.

    Be that as it may;

    They needed proof to show to the public. If they were just to come out and say *on election day* "Baltar is a Cylon conspirator" and put him in the brig, it would be just a tad suspicious to the voters. It would look like Roslin and Adama basically staged a coup on the pretense of an unqualified rumor. The civilians were already getting more and more uneasy. There would most likely be a rebellion (no doubt led by Zarek). The fleet would split, etc, etc.

    And I *really* don't think Adama believed the nuke was stolen. He was reporting the "facts" to Baltar, but to me, his tone said he knew exactly how the bomb got out of his lab and into the hands of the Cylons. But he was playing the good soldier, and following his orders.


    the more they should have stopped him on election day if he was a cylon conspirator rather than give him the power of the presidency. if they wanted proof they needed only to follow him because after he was already president, he still went to see cylon 6 and fracked her. how could he have moved around so easily as before and see the cylon without anyone finding out? its just stupid. as stupid as him being able to move the warhead in a briefcase. and it was so unlike adama to not do anything, he staged a coup when starbuck followed Roslin's orders but he sat on his ass knowing the president might be working with the cylons? he should have staged another coup or just let Roslin remain president. yes, there might be a rebellion and the fleet might split, but that would make for an even more interesting storyline.
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  • Avatar of Teveran

    Teveran

    [82]Mar 14, 2006
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    Hello everyone,

    Fan of the show from the beginning and I just found the boards here today. I wanted to chime in on this topic first.

    When they skipped to the one year later part I verbally said "Did this show just officially jump the shark?"

    And like many others I was kind of put back by the plot just jumping around. But the more I thought about it the more I liked it. As others have said, the space crawl concept was just about done. I dont know how much longer they could have done it and kept it interesting. So they needed to spice things up.

    Since the beginning they have done a pretty true chronological retelling of whats going on. And that has worked. But for the year they skipped there were no Cylon attacks. That would have left a lot of politics and interpersonal squabbles. So there isnt much they could have done to keep it interesting.

    So now a few days after the episode aired, I'm cool with what they have done. Lots of room to pull plots out of the time period they skipped through, room to advance in to a new kind of conflict, lots of things they can do.

    Finally, I think the person they gave Sharon's baby to is a Cylon. Tori could quite possibly be one as well. A friend and I went back and paused through the cafe scene on Caprica few episodes back and we spotted a model that was definitely a female with darker hair. We figured it was just another Sharon, but on closer look I dont think it was her. They filmed those scenes so that you can see there is someone there but not exactly who. Im betting that's what the story is there. Remember....she is someone who is supposed to be "trusted". Question is, trusted by whom?

    Tev
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  • Avatar of Tigh1on

    Tigh1on

    [83]Mar 14, 2006
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    Teveran wrote:
    Finally, I think the person they gave Sharon's baby to is a Cylon. Tori could quite possibly be one as well. A friend and I went back and paused through the cafe scene on Caprica few episodes back and we spotted a model that was definitely a female with darker hair.... but on closer look I dont think it was her.

    Would be interesting if Tori turns out to be a cylon. With the addition of Cavil praying with Roslin, maybe we'll find out that the cylons wanted Roslin to win? Who knows. We will eventually.
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  • Avatar of Teveran

    Teveran

    [84]Mar 14, 2006
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    Lets not forget a short but significant event that happened a while back.

    When Starbuck was in "The Farm", the Cylons performed a procedure that looks lke they removed an ovary from her.

    Remembering the night before she had been with whats-his-face so that could also have been a fertilized ovary.

    What would the Cylons have done with a fertilized ovary....provided that is what they did.

    Could a Starbuck clone appear in the near future? How about her child raised as a Cylon? Might that be what that other Cylon was looking for her about?

    Tev
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  • Avatar of starwolf99

    starwolf99

    [85]Mar 15, 2006
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    Is it me, or did Cavill's speech about the new Cylon plan bring back memories of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail":

    Let's not bicker or argue about who killed who...
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  • Avatar of volko

    volko

    [86]Mar 15, 2006
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    Teveran wrote:
    Lets not forget a short but significant event that happened a while back.

    When Starbuck was in "The Farm", the Cylons performed a procedure that looks lke they removed an ovary from her.

    Remembering the night before she had been with whats-his-face so that could also have been a fertilized ovary.

    What would the Cylons have done with a fertilized ovary....provided that is what they did.

    Could a Starbuck clone appear in the near future? How about her child raised as a Cylon? Might that be what that other Cylon was looking for her about?

    Tev


    Well you know what they did if they actually got something that could be used to make a starbuck Cylon. But i don't think a fertilzed ovary was every taken.
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  • Avatar of fcjd06

    fcjd06

    [87]Mar 16, 2006
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    volko wrote:
    Teveran wrote:
    Lets not forget a short but significant event that happened a while back.

    When Starbuck was in "The Farm", the Cylons performed a procedure that looks lke they removed an ovary from her.

    Remembering the night before she had been with whats-his-face so that could also have been a fertilized ovary.

    What would the Cylons have done with a fertilized ovary....provided that is what they did.

    Could a Starbuck clone appear in the near future? How about her child raised as a Cylon? Might that be what that other Cylon was looking for her about?

    Tev


    Well you know what they did if they actually got something that could be used to make a starbuck Cylon. But i don't think a fertilzed ovary was every taken.

    .
    .
    .
    ...I think a fertilized egg is within the realm of possibility. Nonetheless, I am surprised there has been no exposition on the point of that mysterious incision although one can presume it had something to do with the apparent studies of human-reproduction conducted by the Cylons on those farms.
    .
    .
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  • Avatar of Agent_J69

    Agent_J69

    [88]Mar 18, 2006
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    Kounji wrote:
    Favortite Line of the episode.

    Priest: I'm not a cylon (see's drifter)
    " Oh nevermind"

    It was actually:
    "I'm not a fracking cylon, I'm not...(see's drifter)oh, well...okay then."
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  • Avatar of volko

    volko

    [89]Mar 18, 2006
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    It surprising, right because here we can already see the drifter on teh ship already believes that the attack on the colonies was a mistake. While some cylons believe it wasn't. Surprisign they haven't gone to civil war yet, but looks like civil war is the reason Cylons are on the new caprica but once again THE FRAKKING IDIOT BALTAR!!
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  • Avatar of CandaceS

    CandaceS

    [90]Mar 20, 2006
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    First off, if I hadn't hated Baltar before, I would have by the end of this episode. I can't believe how stupid he was! Did he honestly think that the cylons would just leave them alone? Puh-lease.

    The 'one year later' bit really threw me for a loop, but like it was said previously, it would have been so boring for them to show a whole year of nothing but politics and settling. At least this way they can get on with the story and still show the important parts through flashbacks.

    I really admired Laura's teaching the children. It showed that she really believed in some of the things she said when she was first named president. I'm not so sure however that I can completely forgive her for making Sharon and Helo think that their baby was dead.

    I was a little surprised with Kara settling down and marrying Anders. But it was really clear that she cared a whole lot about him, which was really sweet.

    When they showed Adama telling Tigh that he should leave the ship I got really sad. I was so used to seeing the ships full of people and life that it was shocking to see them half empty and neglected.

    The reunion with Kara and Tigh was really sweet as well. I'm glad they got through their differences. Even Ellen seemed to have changed for the better.

    Finally, was Cally really with the Chief? Wow. Wasn't really expecting that, but it wasn't a shocker. And Gaeta being the President's aide? That was a little disappointing, but after he (sort of) betrayed the last president by not listening when Tigh told him to let the voting thing go, I kinda started to not like him a little bit.

    I'm really interested in seeing who reamined on Galactica and what happened to the rest of the pilots and especially what happened to Helo and Sharon.

    Also, I wonder what the cylons wanted with Kara? And what are they going to do with the rest of the humans? How are the Adamas going to solve the cylon problem?
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  • Avatar of Pedroff

    Pedroff

    [91]Mar 20, 2006
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    CandaceS wrote:
    First off, if I hadn't hated Baltar before, I would have by the end of this episode. I can't believe how stupid he was! Did he honestly think that the cylons would just leave them alone? Puh-lease.

    The 'one year later' bit really threw me for a loop, but like it was said previously, it would have been so boring for them to show a whole year of nothing but politics and settling. At least this way they can get on with the story and still show the important parts through flashbacks.

    I really admired Laura's teaching the children. It showed that she really believed in some of the things she said when she was first named president. I'm not so sure however that I can completely forgive her for making Sharon and Helo think that their baby was dead.

    I was a little surprised with Kara settling down and marrying Anders. But it was really clear that she cared a whole lot about him, which was really sweet.

    When they showed Adama telling Tigh that he should leave the ship I got really sad. I was so used to seeing the ships full of people and life that it was shocking to see them half empty and neglected.

    The reunion with Kara and Tigh was really sweet as well. I'm glad they got through their differences. Even Ellen seemed to have changed for the better.

    Finally, was Cally really with the Chief? Wow. Wasn't really expecting that, but it wasn't a shocker. And Gaeta being the President's aide? That was a little disappointing, but after he (sort of) betrayed the last president by not listening when Tigh told him to let the voting thing go, I kinda started to not like him a little bit.

    I'm really interested in seeing who reamined on Galactica and what happened to the rest of the pilots and especially what happened to Helo and Sharon.

    Also, I wonder what the cylons wanted with Kara? And what are they going to do with the rest of the humans? How are the Adamas going to solve the cylon problem?


    I bet who ever voted for Baltar are kicking themselves now, what a huge mistake that was.
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  • Avatar of WVR1965

    WVR1965

    [92]Mar 21, 2006
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    One thing I'd like to see them do is introduce Count Iblis-or maybe just the fear of him. He could be the Colonials' version of the Devil, and maybe they find his tomb on New Caprica and start getting all paranoid about Iblis returning. It might make for great psychological drama, an is it real or isn't it kind of thing. Would the "Friendly" Cylons exploit this fear?

    As for Baltar, I don't think he's necessarily stupid; remember he's being egged on by his Number Six so his weepy surrender speech may have been an act. I think he was expecting them to show up but not so soon.

    One of the reasons for Kara's apparent importance to the Cylons may be the way she was able to gain control of the damaged Cylon fighter. Her seeming death wish might also have been planted in her subconscious by the Cylons when she was on the Farm so that her memories could be downloaded into a Kara clone if she was killed.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [93]Mar 25, 2006
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    I'm getting to this episode a little late. The writers certainly did turn everything upside down like they said they would. No one can ever say that BSG is content to retread the same ground over and over. I was a little tired when I saw the episode so I'll reserve final judgment until I see it again (while completely awake). As with previous episodes, it's difficult to figure out where they are going with the story in following episodes, but that's why I watch the show.
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    lemon_accw

    [94]Apr 1, 2006
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    It was really weird to see that one year had passed. O.o
    I was disappointed how easily Baltar surrendered...but I guess it's to be expected. He looked like crap to be honest. He didn't seem to want to be president anymore. And wow, what the heck happened to the population? People dying of sicknesses?

    And this season finale ended with no action...a little bit more disappointed. But it's all good, I can't wait for the 3rd season.
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    brighette

    [95]Apr 9, 2006
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    I think it was brilliant jumping ahead a year. Watching a year with no Cylons would have been a bit slow for ratings. Now they can keep up with the action and do some backstory at the same time. And it will be backstory that is actually interesting...unlike the attempts at backstory they did towards the end that left me cold. (Lee wants to die and hooks up with a prostitute because of some woman we have never heard about? Kara all of a sudden becomes alcoholic and despondent about Anders when she left Caprica long ago? These shows could have worked if they had built up to them...)
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  • Avatar of DocMartigan

    DocMartigan

    [96]Apr 9, 2006
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    lemon_accw wrote:
    It was really weird to see that one year had passed. O.o
    I was disappointed how easily Baltar surrendered...but I guess it's to be expected. He looked like crap to be honest. He didn't seem to want to be president anymore. And wow, what the heck happened to the population? People dying of sicknesses?

    And this season finale ended with no action...a little bit more disappointed. But it's all good, I can't wait for the 3rd season.


    The population: The nuclear explosion took out at least 3 ships that I saw, and Cloud Nine was the main one, being one of the largest non military vessels in the fleet. Also, note the population only reflected "New Caprica." Doesn't count all those that are in the Battlestars or other civilian ships (if they aren't just in an auto-pilot orbit.)

    Baltar surrendering: What did you expect him to do? Try to fight 4 or 5 Cylons with his bare hands? Even for someone more physical (Starbuck, Helo) that would just be stupid. And my TiVo cut off the last few seconds, but I don't remember him "surrendering", but just standing there... although I'm sure he would give up the rest of humanity to save his sorry hide. I don't see why anyone would be dissapointed by anything Baltar does now... because no one should be expecting anything but the worst out of him. I used to love his character when he was kind of riding the fence and ambiguous as far as bad/good... but towards the end of the season, he went from being an entertaining slimeball to a complete villian.
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    FreakyDroid

    [97]Apr 9, 2006
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    brighette wrote:
    I think it was brilliant jumping ahead a year. Watching a year with no Cylons would have been a bit slow for ratings. Now they can keep up with the action and do some backstory at the same time. And it will be backstory that is actually interesting


    I agree. Thats why I like this show, because of the MIND GAMES

    But its not going to be something completely new. We had flashbacks quite often so far, and it works for me.

    CandaceS wrote:
    And Gaeta being the President's aide? That was a little disappointing, but after he (sort of) betrayed the last president by not listening when Tigh told him to let the voting thing go, I kinda started to not like him a little bit.


    There's something fishy about Gaeta right? Either he thinks he's doing a greater good for higher purposes, or he's a Cylon. I cant see him any different.

    CandaceS wrote:
    First off, if I hadn't hated Baltar before, I would have by the end of this episode. I can't believe how stupid he was! Did he honestly think that the cylons would just leave them alone? Puh-lease.


    He's not stupid IMO. On the contrary, he's very intelligent. If I want to describe him in one word, I would choose dellusional. He's just indiferent for the existence of mankind. Well, not completely but just as a tool to serve his purpose.

    Pedroff wrote:
    I bet who ever voted for Baltar are kicking themselves now, what a huge mistake that was.


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  • Avatar of brighette

    brighette

    [98]Apr 9, 2006
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    FreakyDroid wrote:

    CandaceS wrote:
    First off, if I hadn't hated Baltar before, I would have by the end of this episode. I can't believe how stupid he was! Did he honestly think that the cylons would just leave them alone? Puh-lease.


    He's not stupid IMO. On the contrary, he's very intelligent. If I want to describe him in one word, I would choose dellusional. He's just indiferent for the existence of mankind. Well, not completely but just as a tool to serve his purpose.


    Folks talk about the "reimaging" of Starbuck a lot, but I think the reimaging of Baltar was much more drastic and definitely well done. Baltar in the original series was nowhere near as interesting as the Baltar we love to hate now!

    I definitely don't think he's stupid. Nor do I think of him as evil, really. There are times I really like him, despite everything. I agree, delusional. And I think he did trust that they would be left alone, because he is delusional. He thinks of himself as important to the Cylons, so couldn't imagine he would be put in such mortal danger.

    Can't wait for next season!!
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  • Avatar of FreakyDroid

    FreakyDroid

    [99]Apr 12, 2006
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    brighette wrote:
    I definitely don't think he's stupid. Nor do I think of him as evil, really. There are times I really like him, despite everything. I agree, delusional. And I think he did trust that they would be left alone, because he is delusional. He thinks of himself as important to the Cylons, so couldn't imagine he would be put in such mortal danger.

    Can't wait for next season!!


    Word.
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    SupermanNYC

    [100]Apr 13, 2006
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    FreakyDroid wrote:
    brighette wrote:
    I definitely don't think he's stupid. Nor do I think of him as evil, really. There are times I really like him, despite everything. I agree, delusional. And I think he did trust that they would be left alone, because he is delusional. He thinks of himself as important to the Cylons, so couldn't imagine he would be put in such mortal danger.

    Can't wait for next season!!


    Word.
    wow, glad to see some of my smallville fans up on this forum, thats great.
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