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Episode 2-20 "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2" discussion (spoilers)

  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [181]Aug 3, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.


    I'm a big fan of her work!!! HEHE...

    yeah, they know...

    i feel a little simpathy for the model that they killed but if he comes anywhere near Starbuck again... well, i couldn`t really do anything now cause my ankle if f-ed up and the friggin docter keeps tryin to make me do physical therapy, or else i can`t move.(who else here hates docters with a passion?)

    anyways, i don`t want any of them near Starbuck unless it`s for target practice!
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  • Avatar of Moby1969

    Moby1969

    [182]Aug 26, 2006
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    I'm late into the discussion as I've just watched it. I got the DVD set in Australia and my wife and I just watched it.

    Wow.

    andjj wrote:
    DocMartigan wrote:
    I was talking to my wife about that... and realistically... they would have put her out the airlock. What reasons did they have for keeping her around anymore? She betrayed them, she wasn't pregnant, all she was doing was laying there. I doubt it actually happened... but it would have made A LOT of sense to put her out the airlock with the Brothers Cavil. I would have loved to see that.
    You're a sick man. Sick sick sick I expect the prisoner cylons were either transfered to a ground prison, or were still on the Galactica when it jumped. I hope they are on the ground, because I cant help thinking what Sharon would do when the occupying cylons release her - she still thinks the galactica crew murdered her baby dont forget... I dont remember seeing Helo after the one year later thing, it might even be possible that Sharon was released into his custody.


    Helo was on the Galactica - in Gaeta's spot. I suspect he stayed there as Sharon was still on Galactica. That is my theory. If Sharon had been dumped out of an airlock by Adama, he probably wouldn't have hung about...

    Besides, it was that cold bXXXX Roslyn that was into ejecting cylons from the airlock. Not Adama...

    alicehere wrote:


    No season cliff hanger shocker. Not at all.

    Just a dismal downer.,

    Ok Baltar is Humanity's's greatesst war criminal now. He blew up a ship with an a bomb for no apparent reason. He betrayed the human race twice, If the first time was a mistake of judgement , there was no mistake the second time. If not a cylon he might as well be. although he desrves to be killed asap, but he will propbaly last longer in this fiction than the series will.

    At first in season one, blatar was somewhat of a synmpathetic character becaause he had done a great wrong in spite of himself and had a terrible guilt on his conscience, but as time has gone by the writers have removed that guilt and just made him pure evil. Once you cross the line to explict mass murder and explict ordering the human race to be defenseless on a planet then my sympathy ends forever.

    I know many viewers will say no no it's black and white not just black, but i don't feel that way, Baltar has crossed into the black , full black.

    Realistically as well in any normal society when a leader (president) makes such a horrid mistake, he is blamed no matter what and no one follows him again, But i will bet that the writers do not play out that natural theme and ignore that human social tendency. As for the people of the colony I lost sympathy for them as well. It's just incredibly stupid to make themselves defenceless after an alien speicies destroys the entire human race except a few. No amount of time makes any difference. Sitting on a nuclear bomb after one minute or one year, the threat is still there. It is simple survival sense.And of course politics can change, human politics can change so of course cylon politics can change, you could never lay down your arms.If the clons are frindly one year certainly they can be deadly the next. It's common sense. I think not a military command in this current world would think any differently. At the very least even if they settled, they should have had a fleet on continual full alert and emergency evacuation plans and early warning etc...but even that would not bew enough...no they should have kept goin even to the far side of the galaxy or as a permanent space fleet until the threat was neutralized. And of course the real reason why they escaped Caprica with the incursion team is that the cylons wanted to catch a bigger fish. It standard SOP police procedure to do that.

    So a whole society of lolly gagging carousing idiots unconcerned about the cylons dropping in from the sky. who cares? I don't care. They abrogated their right to survive when theny cared so little about their survival. They have all won the Darwin award. Where this leaves me, when i lose sympathy for characters is that i just don't much care about them anymore, if baltar continues to live, if the others continue to tolerate and be tricked by blatar, i don;t care. . If the cylons kill everyone on New Caprica or if they put alien eggs in them, i don't much care. I have lost my sympathy for them so no , i 'm not caring too much to see season three. The human race lost and this bunch of losers deserved to lose.

    It's how I fell aboutt self-destructive people, i always think: let them destroy themselves and I will try to survive and keep them away form me.

    sic transit gloria mundi

    i think the series should stop here. That's it. It teaches survival of the fittest. This group of "idiot stupid" survivors has annhilated themselves from their own lack of survival instinct and social cohesion. It shows that this type of social system that promotes careless attitutes is inter-necine and cannot survive.

    So BSG is over for me, the cylons won.

    Most of the humans were too dumb to surive, the good ones were taken down with the majority which were foolish. Maybe somewhere in the universe another species will evolve that wil have better survival sense and a better social organization and a better self love and inter-love between its members that will enable them to survive. And hopefully if they meet the cylopns they can do better than this (Battlestar) Ship of Fools.


    Yeah, I sort of agree with your sentiment. But I'll keep watching the show.

    Season 2 was a tour de force of all the worst aspects of humanity being played out. The species was nearly extinct, but they still could not put aside petty greed, and work for a common good, etc, and were heading for extinction (in 18 years by Baltar's calculation).

    In the end, the only characters I couldn't really feel anything about and not find them dispicable in some of their actions were Helo and Billy. It was an utter tragedy when Billy died. All the other characters acted in ways I'd personally be ashamed of.

    The way humans treated cylons was just abysmal too. I'm talking from how the Pegasus crew treated their captured "6", to the president and her "put it out of the airlock" mentality. Being a long time sci-fi fan, and fan of the work of Philip K Dick, I do ponder the questions of what is "human". The cylons were sentient beings. Even if they had been non-biological androids, they still deserve to be treated as sentient beings. Treating them all the same is as stupid as basing your opinion of Americans by equating them to Jeffrey Dahmer or Henry Lee Cobb.

    But it is depressingly real, and I do appreciate the honesty of it.

    With the exception of the Baltar situation. That is just getting into totally ludicrous(sp?). There is no way someone could act so mentally unhinged and be given a nuke, given the job as vice president, and finally as president. I mean a military ship, they have a nuke in his lab, but the lab is so unsecure just anyone could walk into it? Tamper with the blood samples just sitting on the desk You got to be kidding. They deserve what happened if they are that lax. And Adama just "oh by the way, the nuke was probably the one in your lab, and someone probably lifted it and smuggled it to cloud 9". Yeah, right. What sort of idiocy is that?
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  • Avatar of GilHerad

    GilHerad

    [183]Aug 26, 2006
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    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.


    Even though we have only seen him twice, he is my favortite male cylon. I love his philosophical way of talking and Flesh and Bone was an amazing episode - because of him.
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    LtAgathon

    [184]Aug 27, 2006
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    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.
    Even though we have only seen him twice, he is my favortite male cylon. I love his philosophical way of talking and Flesh and Bone was an amazing episode - because of him.

    Yeah, I thought that Flesh and Bone was an excellent episode, I can't wait to hear what news he brings us in the future.

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  • Avatar of GilHerad

    GilHerad

    [185]Aug 28, 2006
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    LtAgathon wrote:

    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.
    Even though we have only seen him twice, he is my favortite male cylon. I love his philosophical way of talking and Flesh and Bone was an amazing episode - because of him.

    Yeah, I thought that Flesh and Bone was an excellent episode, I can't wait to hear what news he brings us in the future.



    I guess people have probably thought about this already, but you might remember in that episode he says something in the lines of "maybe last time you where the victim, and I was the torturer etc...". So I guess its safe to assume we will see a torture scene with Kara and Leoben, with the roles switched. Could be interesting imo.
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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [186]Aug 28, 2006
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    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:

    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.
    Even though we have only seen him twice, he is my favortite male cylon. I love his philosophical way of talking and Flesh and Bone was an amazing episode - because of him.

    Yeah, I thought that Flesh and Bone was an excellent episode, I can't wait to hear what news he brings us in the future.



    I guess people have probably thought about this already, but you might remember in that episode he says something in the lines of "maybe last time you where the victim, and I was the torturer etc...". So I guess its safe to assume we will see a torture scene with Kara and Leoben, with the roles switched. Could be interesting imo.


    *shuddering* interseting yes...but still completely abhorent...completely beyond cringe worthy...
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [187]Aug 28, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:

    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.
    Even though we have only seen him twice, he is my favortite male cylon. I love his philosophical way of talking and Flesh and Bone was an amazing episode - because of him.

    Yeah, I thought that Flesh and Bone was an excellent episode, I can't wait to hear what news he brings us in the future.



    I guess people have probably thought about this already, but you might remember in that episode he says something in the lines of "maybe last time you where the victim, and I was the torturer etc...". So I guess its safe to assume we will see a torture scene with Kara and Leoben, with the roles switched. Could be interesting imo.


    *shuddering* interseting yes...but still completely abhorent...completely beyond cringe worthy...

    but this time he shall be the one to die!!!!!!!!
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  • Avatar of GilHerad

    GilHerad

    [188]Aug 29, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:

    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.
    Even though we have only seen him twice, he is my favortite male cylon. I love his philosophical way of talking and Flesh and Bone was an amazing episode - because of him.

    Yeah, I thought that Flesh and Bone was an excellent episode, I can't wait to hear what news he brings us in the future.



    I guess people have probably thought about this already, but you might remember in that episode he says something in the lines of "maybe last time you where the victim, and I was the torturer etc...". So I guess its safe to assume we will see a torture scene with Kara and Leoben, with the roles switched. Could be interesting imo.


    *shuddering* interseting yes...but still completely abhorent...completely beyond cringe worthy...


    Ok. I ment bake cookies, make babies and get married. Wtf, she is a prisoner, she tortured him once. Wtf would you do? Gez, everybody is a critic these days.
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [189]Aug 29, 2006
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    GilHerad wrote:
    StelingMB wrote:
    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:

    GilHerad wrote:
    LtAgathon wrote:
    Leoben intrigues me, yet I find his fascination with Starbuck a bit disturbing. Maybe he's just a big fan of her work.
    Even though we have only seen him twice, he is my favortite male cylon. I love his philosophical way of talking and Flesh and Bone was an amazing episode - because of him.

    Yeah, I thought that Flesh and Bone was an excellent episode, I can't wait to hear what news he brings us in the future.



    I guess people have probably thought about this already, but you might remember in that episode he says something in the lines of "maybe last time you where the victim, and I was the torturer etc...". So I guess its safe to assume we will see a torture scene with Kara and Leoben, with the roles switched. Could be interesting imo.


    *shuddering* interseting yes...but still completely abhorent...completely beyond cringe worthy...


    Ok. I ment bake cookies, make babies and get married. Wtf, she is a prisoner, she tortured him once. Wtf would you do? Gez, everybody is a critic these days.

    *chuckles* don`t insult Steling! *chuckles*
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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [190]Aug 29, 2006
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    Hey Gil...of course that's what would happen between Starbuck and Leoben...

    ...my comment was one of reaction to the inevitable, not critisism. Fortunately I have not become completely jaded and I never take much enjoyment from watching any kind of torture, even dramatic fictional torture...

    Anyways...thanks Track, thanks for watching my six!!
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [191]Aug 30, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    Hey Gil...of course that's what would happen between Starbuck and Leoben...

    ...my comment was one of reaction to the inevitable, not critisism. Fortunately I have not become completely jaded and I never take much enjoyment from watching any kind of torture, even dramatic fictional torture...

    Anyways...thanks Track, thanks for watching my six!!

    no prob i can handle a lot as i have said but child abuse gets to me.
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  • Avatar of GilHerad

    GilHerad

    [192]Sep 1, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    Hey Gil...of course that's what would happen between Starbuck and Leoben...

    ...my comment was one of reaction to the inevitable, not critisism. Fortunately I have not become completely jaded and I never take much enjoyment from watching any kind of torture, even dramatic fictional torture...

    Anyways...thanks Track, thanks for watching my six!!


    Of cource. And I didnt meen to offend if I came off that way. So, my apology.

    Well, I dont like torture either, and for my part they dont need to show it. But I think it is good for the development of the relationship between Starbuck and Leoben that he tortures her. It can spawn an interesting storyline. But for my sake, they dont need to show it. IF this makes more sense
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [193]Sep 1, 2006
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    GilHerad wrote:
    StelingMB wrote:
    Hey Gil...of course that's what would happen between Starbuck and Leoben...

    ...my comment was one of reaction to the inevitable, not critisism. Fortunately I have not become completely jaded and I never take much enjoyment from watching any kind of torture, even dramatic fictional torture...

    Anyways...thanks Track, thanks for watching my six!!


    Of cource. And I didnt meen to offend if I came off that way. So, my apology.

    Well, I dont like torture either, and for my part they dont need to show it. But I think it is good for the development of the relationship between Starbuck and Leoben that he tortures her. It can spawn an interesting storyline. But for my sake, they dont need to show it. IF this makes more sense

    if they show it i`ll be throwing things at the screen the whole time.... at leoben!
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    StelingMB

    [194]Sep 1, 2006
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    We're all good Gil! I don't take too much personally around here!

    I just hope they approach the torture scenes with the right attitude...you know..?
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    GilHerad

    [195]Sep 2, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    We're all good Gil! I don't take too much personally around here!

    I just hope they approach the torture scenes with the right attitude...you know..?


    Oh yes, and its hard to pull of. But I think they succeeded very well in Flesh and Bone. However I would not like a copy of that, because we've seen it before. I guess i'll just have to wait and see how they do it
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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [196]Sep 3, 2006
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    They did succeed...and I'm sure they will again! After all BSg is a show designed to promote enlightenment, so it would figure they would find just the right way of 'packaging' this sorta thing...
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