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How was Kara harbinger of death?? Spoilers possible?

  • Avatar of hbktimf24

    hbktimf24

    [1]Mar 20, 2009
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    Dont get it. I thought she was going to end up killing them all.
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    h00plah

    [2]Mar 20, 2009
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    hbktimf24 wrote:
    Dont get it. I thought she was going to end up killing them all.


    No, the prophecy actually meant that Kara Thrace, in spirit and as a guardian angel, would lead the human race to the end of their long voyage. And she did. Once they stood on the surface of Earth, she had fulfilled her destiny, and vanished forever. Her destiny wasn't that she was going to destroy the human race, she was destined to lead them to safety, to lead them all in the direction of a new home.
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    alllstarz

    [3]Mar 20, 2009
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    She did bring a lot of people to thier death not directly but indirectly, last battle but it was broken up by "kara thrace you are the harbinger of death... You will lead humanity to its end"
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  • Avatar of ugzravage

    ugzravage

    [4]Mar 21, 2009
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    "Kara Thrace you are the harbinger of death... You will lead humanity to its end"

    Break it up into two sentences and both statements ultimately prove to be true.

    She acted as the harbinger of death, but for the Cylons, not the Humans.

    and

    She lead humanity to it's end, by putting in the correct coordinates for Earth thus ending their journey.

    If you separate the two statements, and remove the connotation from the first when looking at the second, both statements are true and the prophecy was fulfilled on both fronts. At least that's the way I choose to look at it. Initially I assumed that the first and second statemets were linked as well. But now, having all the information, I have come to interpret it differently as described above.

    Hope that makes some sense.

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  • Avatar of dragon755

    dragon755

    [5]Mar 21, 2009
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    Actually, dictionary wise: Harbringer means 'Originally, a person that is sent in advance to provide lodgings'....does this sound like it fits kara? the death bit im not sure about. I tend to think that death as in end, not so much as in dead. SO lets translate: Kara was sent to bring humans to the death of the war, and the whole running away problem. to provide them with a home. Ever since she died she has continued to push them towards the end one way or the other. I think it fits nicely
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  • Avatar of Doom442

    Doom442

    [6]Mar 21, 2009
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    Because she was able to bring Human and Cylon together (The Raider in season 1. The Heavy Raider, Anders and Cavil in season 2. The Baseship and rebel cylons in Season 4), she brought about the death of both humans and cylons, but the birth of a new race of them merged together (like Hera) "Not an end, but a begining"
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  • Avatar of Bionetic

    Bionetic

    [7]Mar 21, 2009
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    Doom442 wrote:
    Because she was able to bring Human and Cylon together (The Raider in season 1. The Heavy Raider, Anders and Cavil in season 2. The Baseship and rebel cylons in Season 4), she brought about the death of both humans and cylons, but the birth of a new race of them merged together (like Hera) "Not an end, but a begining"

    I'm not sure if I'm interpreting you correctly, but assuming I am, I agree with you. Death could be interpreted as being the Cylons. The Cylons, who were responsible for wiping out most of humanity was death. Kara, who brought the rebel cylons into the fleet is the harbinger.

    According to Dictionary.com...

    har⋅bin⋅ger   /ˈh¨»rbɪndʒər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahr-bin-jer] Show IPA ¨Cnoun 1. a person who goes ahead and makes known the approach of another; herald. 2. anything that foreshadows a future event; omen; sign: Frost is a harbinger of winter. 3. a person sent in advance of troops, a royal train, etc., to provide or secure lodgings and other accommodations.

    And she did bring two fleets to their end as has been already pointed out. Her jump coordinates lead them directly to a habitable planet they dub, Earth.

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  • Avatar of Daxx00004

    Daxx00004

    [8]Mar 21, 2009
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    ugzravage wrote:


    "Kara Thrace you are the harbinger of death... You will lead humanity to its end"

    Break it up into two sentences and both statements ultimately prove to be true.

    She acted as the harbinger of death, but for the Cylons, not the Humans.

    and

    She lead humanity to it's end, by putting in the correct coordinates for Earth thus ending their journey.

    If you separate the two statements, and remove the connotation from the first when looking at the second, both statements are true and the prophecy was fulfilled on both fronts. At least that's the way I choose to look at it. Initially I assumed that the first and second statemets were linked as well. But now, having all the information, I have come to interpret it differently as described above.

    Hope that makes some sense.


    That makes sense, the hybrid's were saying that she was the harbinger of death, death to the cylon race, death to all hybrids. She did lead humanity to their end, the human race ended sometime in the 150,000 years and a new race rose from the blending of colonial humans, earth humans and cylons.
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  • Avatar of poggie

    poggie

    [9]Mar 21, 2009
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    Nice job of doing the writers job, you guys.

    Writers: "Lets make a shonky ending and let the fans make up their own idea about it!"

    Producer: "Sure, we've made our money, they can finish it how they like in their own minds. Make it as weak an ending as you can. Deal."

    pfft. I for one do not welcome this ending and will not submit myself to making up how it works based on conjecture. It is as it is. Weak.

    frak them, gods damnit.

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  • Avatar of ShotgunBlade

    ShotgunBlade

    [10]Mar 21, 2009
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    Kara as the harbinger of death is just another one of those plot threads you know the writers made up as they went along and had no real conclusion in mind for. It showed. She didn't act as the harbinger of the death in any capacity, it was bad writing. The hybrids said things like "she is not to be followed", etc etc, all sorts of ominous stuff. The writers then tried to write this off by saying she was really just bringing them all to Earth (in other words, to the end of their journey, as opposed to the end of their existence) but it doesn't really mesh and is an example of a large number of the "hard sells" attempted in the disappointing series conclusion.
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    Prongsters

    [11]Mar 21, 2009
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    Also did they ever explain how her body ended up on EarthI? What, she died on one planet, she got better, went to EarthI, crashed, recovered and flew a brand new Viper to Galactica?
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  • Avatar of wingsabre

    wingsabre

    [12]Mar 21, 2009
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    poggie wrote:

    Nice job of doing the writers job, you guys.

    Writers: "Lets make a shonky ending and let the fans make up their own idea about it!"

    Producer: "Sure, we've made our money, they can finish it how they like in their own minds. Make it as weak an ending as you can. Deal."

    pfft. I for one do not welcome this ending and will not submit myself to making up how it works based on conjecture. It is as it is. Weak.

    frak them, gods damnit.



    Unlike others, most fans are given the respect to figure it out themselves. We don't need to be spoon fed the information. It doesn't have to be that transparent. Remember this is a televised medium, looking at the different artistic takes one can figure things out. We don't need the actors to stand there and state the obvious to us. It's quite cheap to state the obvious, we don't need that to waste our time. Cheap series like Star Trek Enterprise explained everything out, and treated fans like they're idiots. As time progressed, and after you've watched the series numerous times, you will be able to see that the ending was fitting. It made sense with what was done in the past, and was true to the characters. BSG was never a shoot them first, ask questions later series. It wasn't Star Wars, episode one, but instead a character driven series, and this ending fitted it.
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  • Avatar of ShotgunBlade

    ShotgunBlade

    [13]Mar 21, 2009
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    wingsabre wrote:
    Unlike others, most fans are given the respect to figure it out themselves. We don't need to be spoon fed the information. It doesn't have to be that transparent. Remember this is a televised medium, looking at the different artistic takes one can figure things out. We don't need the actors to stand there and state the obvious to us. It's quite cheap to state the obvious, we don't need that to waste our time. Cheap series like Star Trek Enterprise explained everything out, and treated fans like they're idiots. As time progressed, and after you've watched the series numerous times, you will be able to see that the ending was fitting. It made sense with what was done in the past, and was true to the characters. BSG was never a shoot them first, ask questions later series. It wasn't Star Wars, episode one, but instead a character driven series, and this ending fitted it.

    Lol, you're letting the writers play you like a cheap trick. It isn't good, or creative, or "in line with the series" to leave a plot end loose/poorly explained and then let ovely attached fans who will do anything to keep the show in a positive light in their eyes make up their own weak justifications for the ending. It's poor writing, and that's all it was. Nothing fit in the finale. The writers of this show could do an amazing job of juggling all these plots but the sad fact is, like most shows on television, there was no ending ever planned from the beginning - they backed themselves into a corner and had to make something up as they went along.

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    Daxx00004

    [14]Mar 21, 2009
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    wingsabre wrote:
    poggie wrote:

    Nice job of doing the writers job, you guys.

    Writers: "Lets make a shonky ending and let the fans make up their own idea about it!"

    Producer: "Sure, we've made our money, they can finish it how they like in their own minds. Make it as weak an ending as you can. Deal."

    pfft. I for one do not welcome this ending and will not submit myself to making up how it works based on conjecture. It is as it is. Weak.

    frak them, gods damnit.



    Unlike others, most fans are given the respect to figure it out themselves. We don't need to be spoon fed the information. It doesn't have to be that transparent. Remember this is a televised medium, looking at the different artistic takes one can figure things out. We don't need the actors to stand there and state the obvious to us. It's quite cheap to state the obvious, we don't need that to waste our time. Cheap series like Star Trek Enterprise explained everything out, and treated fans like they're idiots. As time progressed, and after you've watched the series numerous times, you will be able to see that the ending was fitting. It made sense with what was done in the past, and was true to the characters. BSG was never a shoot them first, ask questions later series. It wasn't Star Wars, episode one, but instead a character driven series, and this ending fitted it.

    Well said.
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  • Avatar of wingsabre

    wingsabre

    [15]Mar 21, 2009
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    ShotgunBlade, this is a television series, not a book. We don't need long soliloquies from Kara explaining her existence to Lee or whatnot. Her destiny was complete, so she was taken back by God. That's as clear cut as possible. We've had hints of a God all throughout the series, and it wasn't heavy handed. Just because you didn't like that explanation doesn't mean it's not valid. How else could you explain that she was resurrected, with a completely new viper? The series in itself has never prided in going into techno babble, I don't see them doing so again. What, she entered some wormhole that made a copy of her and sent her through a time warp? If they had done that, it would have been a cop out. Now at least, we see that the visions, and Kara have some connection.
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    ShotgunBlade

    [16]Mar 21, 2009
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    wingsabre wrote:
    ShotgunBlade, this is a television series, not a book. We don't need long soliloquies from Kara explaining her existence to Lee or whatnot. Her destiny was complete, so she was taken back by God. That's as clear cut as possible.

    Yeah, inserting "you were sent by God and now God is taking you back" is a weak plot device. Know what a deus ex machinae is? Because what you just described is a literal one.

    wingsabre wrote:
    We've had hints of a God all throughout the series, and it wasn't heavy handed. Just because you didn't like that explanation doesn't mean it's not valid. How else could you explain that she was resurrected, with a completely new viper? The series in itself has never prided in going into techno babble, I don't see them doing so again. What, she entered some wormhole that made a copy of her and sent her through a time warp? If they had done that, it would have been a cop out. Now at least, we see that the visions, and Kara have some connection.

    Of course it is a "valid" explanation, it is impossible for a "LOL GOD DID IT" explanation to ever be invalid if that's what the writers choose. That doesn't make it a GOOD ending, though, and in this case it was a terrible one. I think you need to familiarize yourself with the characteristics of bad plot writing before you praise a finale like this, because it was full of weak holes. I also find it ironic you say the words "it would have been a cop out" in essentially the same post where you say "lol God did it!"

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  • Avatar of Billkup

    Billkup

    [17]Mar 21, 2009
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    the final dialogue pretty obvious states that the thing that sent kara, head baltar or head six isnt "god". we just know its something powerful with a specific interest in cylons and humans. wasnt kara thrace responsible for knocking out ressurection technology? thats enough for calling her "harbinger of death".
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    wingsabre

    [18]Mar 21, 2009
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    deus ex machinae is used essentially as a last minute explanation for everything to get out of a hole. Kara being a messenger of god had enough build up from the beginning to not count as a deus ex machinae. Something like a wormhole drive in Stargate Atlantis would be equal to a deus ex machinae since there was no build up and nothing that sets it up. On the other hand, the Deadelus arriving to rescue Atlantis during the Siege was not a deus ex machinae because the characters said, the Deadelus was on it's way. Similar to that this was set up a while ago. Once you kill someone and bring them back to live, there's only a hand full of explanation, and since this is not a traditional Sci-Fi series, they can't use aliens, wormholes, and all that stuff to explain it. They had already done visions of Kara being a prophet in the past, they've done gods, and this is an extension of that.

    With all the religious tone of the series, the frequent discussion of God and Gods, and prophecy, what else did you expect. Oh, Kara was sent here by aliens? Kara was here to kill all of humanity and everyone dies? Oh yeah, that's such a great ending, everyone dies and the series ends. We don't need someone literally standing there and go, "Gee golly, I get it, Kara Thrace you are the harbinger of death... You will lead humanity to its end. You brought us to the end of our journey, and you killed our past life style." People are not so stupid that they can't figure it out. Is it a poor plot device? Sure if it was done in the last minute, but we've seen the same themes of religion, and crazy things happening that defies the odds. Does the supernova at the algae planet ring a bell? Does Diana's vision of the final five after it rings a bell?
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    ShotgunBlade

    [19]Mar 21, 2009
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    Again, it was ALL last minute. The character being around for several episodes does not qualify as build up, because there was no build up regarding the EXPLANATION of any of it. In the last episode it was just "poof, they're angels". The fact that there were "God/s" themes prior in the series is not a build up nor an excuse for the terrible explanations in the finale - the "God/s" stuff from previous seasons was mainly mythology that they never attempted to use as a sole explanation for what occured, only to enrich the history, hence why its past use was acceptable. But as a finale explanation? No, poor writing.

    You can call all the other possible explanations for what Kara ultimately was ridiculous or cheap all you want, but there is none as ridiculous as the simple "it was 'God'" explanation that the show decided to use. It is the absolute most ridiculous, poorly thought out explanation one could use, bar none, in any work of entertainment.

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    wingsabre

    [20]Mar 21, 2009
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    With God/s themes prior in the series it does provide ample prof into explaining the different questions present in the past. Why was Anders saved by Boomer and Caprica Six? It was a vision from Head Baltar. How did Baltar gain such prominence in the fleet? It was Head Six. Both of which acted on a mental capacity, and a physical capacity. If you think God is such a bad answer, and is so poor in writing then why don't you provide a better answer? Why did Kara come back to life? How did Kara come back to life? Do you really want them to dive into all the techno babble? The series is about the characters, and they spent time on them, not a full hour on techno babble explaining it with their made up physics and science of why Kara came back to life. Look at the whole mutiny arch, where the Cylons was able to unjam the Galactia signal, and have Laura communicate to the fleet. How did they explain that? It was a flashing black box. Do we need explanations on how it worked, or why it was flashing? No, becuase it wouldn't have contributed to the plot.
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