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Syfy (ended 2010)

My Gripe {About this current version of Battle Star Galatica

  • Avatar of Syndicate01

    Syndicate01

    [1]Feb 18, 2006
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    I just love, how good old ronald d moore, has taken his own interpretation of the late 70's, early 80 interracial version of Battlestar Galatica, and made it a purely aryan like version, with a all anglo cast, playing lead and or roles: Showing the anglo males cast in friendships or more..... "Intimate" relationships with females of all races & colors, but not making the show unilateral, in showinf BLACK, asian and hispanic [cast] male members in similar situations, with females opposite their race..... It seems "a typical" in [anglo male] film and television producers to do such a thing, portraying even science fiction fantasy series such as this one, always the anglo male the dominate, while the males, whom is a [black, asian, hispanic] male to fall in behind.....
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  • Avatar of DvLang

    DvLang

    [2]Feb 18, 2006
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    Last time I checked..

    We have major Characters of the following decent..

    Spanish, Italian, African, Korean..

    Yeas there are a number of white characters.. But there is still a broad range of ethnicities. Remember only one Adama is of Caucasian decent.
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  • Avatar of davies78

    davies78

    [3]Feb 18, 2006
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    I must be having a blonde day.Any chance you could post that in english for me thanks
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  • Avatar of BattlestarQ

    BattlestarQ

    [4]Feb 18, 2006
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    Syndicate01 wrote:
    I just love, how good old ronald d moore, has taken his own interpretation of the late 70's, early 80 interracial version of Battlestar Galatica, and made it a purely aryan like version, with a all anglo cast, playing lead and or roles: Showing the anglo males cast in friendships or more..... "Intimate" relationships with females of all races & colors, but not making the show unilateral, in showinf BLACK, asian and hispanic [cast] male members in similar situations, with females opposite their race..... It seems "a typical" in [anglo male] film and television producers to do such a thing, portraying even science fiction fantasy series such as this one, always the anglo male the dominate, while the males, whom is a [black, asian, hispanic] male to fall in behind.....

    I say Cheers to Mr Ronald D Moore let me buy you a Beer Bud.
    Great show. Great Job. Continue to do what you do. As for syndicate01 You have got to be kidding. Try watching the whole show and not the coming attractions you might just learn something.
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  • Avatar of MattBoxer

    MattBoxer

    [5]Feb 18, 2006
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    i can't believe someone would try to put racist overtones into a story line or actor selection that is clearly not racist.

    The only influence on character/actor selection is the target audience. For BSG to stay on the air they have to appeal to the US market. To appeal to the US market the viewers have to relate to the characters. That is why they speak English ect. However it is not racist because the bad guys are not foreign. #6, the closest thing to a bad guy that BSG has is also the closest thing to a typical Aryan.

    And even if you did clas it as racist, then its not moore who is racist but the American viewer.

    and if you compare BSG to other US shows I would think BSG would have a comparatively high proportion actors form different races. and not all the relationships are white male and a woman from another ethnicity. eg. Starbuck and the pro-pyramid player, and Tye and his wife.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [6]Feb 19, 2006
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    Hmm, let's see. The main character is played by a Mexican-American actor with some Hungarian-Jewish ancestry. Doesn't sound very "Aryan" to me.

    Maybe the complaint is that Ronald Moore didn't bring along a racial/gender scorecard and ensure a strict one-to-one ratio of "non-Anglo" men and women, along with "Anglo" men and women. Is this supposed to be a left-wing, "one world" propaganda play based on Socialist Realism aesthetic principles? Sounds like the rules that they used to have in the Soviet Union. Seriously. Are most of the characters Caucasian? Yes, but then again, this is an American/Canadian/British production. If the series were made in Bollywood, most of the actors would be Indian. If it were made in Japan, most of the actors would be Japanese.

    Clearly the primary casting decisions were Edward James Olmos and Mary McDonnell, since they were the only two cast members with widespread name recognition before the miniseries aired. After those two, the only bias I can detect is one toward Canadian actors, which actually makes sense considering that the show is filmed IN CANADA. Grace Park (Sharon), Tricia Helfer (Number Six), Kandyse McClure (Dee), Paul Campbell (Billy), Nicki Clyne (Cally), Aaron Douglas (Chief Tyrol), Michael Hogan (Col. Tigh), Alessandro Juliani (Lt. Gaeta), Tahmoh Penikett (Helo), Matthew Bennett (Doral), Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh), and most of the guest stars are Canadian. Jamie Bamber and James Callis are British, but the first season was co-produced by a British network, so it makes sense that there would be some British stars. Oh no, the majority of the stars aren't even American, and of those three, one is of Mexican heritage! And the other two are women. That means that there isn't a SINGLE male Anglo-Saxon American actor in the primary cast. (Wow, I hadn't realized that until I just did all of this research and thinking. That's actually kind of funny.)

    I guess you can't please all the people all the time. It's a shame that just because a series doesn't focus on race all the time, the producers and writers are labeled racists. At least the first post made a clear implication of racism. Is this an "Afro-centric" or Arabic-centered show? No. Is that a mortal sin or a major crime? Or even an artistic affront? It shouldn't be. [By the way, the theme song is reportedly a Hindu song.] I could see someone criticizing the show for the amount of sex and violence (the "Pegasus" episode did push the envelope at the end), but I hadn't thought someone would attack it for being too culturally conservative.
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  • Avatar of mermayd

    mermayd

    [7]Feb 19, 2006
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    I'm just happy the female characters aren't standing around in bikinis, serving drinks and hanging on Starbucks arms as he plays cards.

    I think it is more multi-racial than the OC. Not that that is saying very much.
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  • Avatar of Parae434

    Parae434

    [8]Feb 19, 2006
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    Just ignore Syndicate, looks like a troll

    Seriously, the two most powerful people on the show are a hispanic male and a white female.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [9]Feb 19, 2006
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    And Hispanics are now the largest minority population in the United States, so it is wrong for people like Syndicate to discount them as a minority group in his "racial calculus." Yeah, he's probably a troll, but unfortunately I hear statements like his more often than I would like to. On college campuses, these racial/gender/class balance and litmus tests are frequently an unofficial requirement in academic discourse. The only real requirements should be entertainment and artistic value. BSG does pretty well in both of those departments so I'm satisfied.
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  • Avatar of BisquickDynamo

    BisquickDynamo

    [10]Feb 19, 2006
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    Well, a few things.

    First, who's hispanic? Apollo? Adama? Huh... didn't catch that. But then I wasn't really thinking about it either.

    Second, hispanic people are caucasion. Technically the only non white charachters on the show are Boomer and Dee. Well.. of the main cast, anyhow.

    Third, it seems like people are suggesting that the show should be mostly white because it's "american" and "british". That kind of thought process is perhaps what the original poster is complaining about. The idea that white is the right or major color to represent america. Be it the way you yourself feel, or not, there are a great many people who feel as though, if you had one person to stand up and represent america, it should be a white person. That is not the right way to think, and I believe possibly the poster is commenting on this.

    Lastly, I can see where the original poster is coming from. Whether you choose to ingnore it or not, television is a very racist thing. There was an arcticle written by a nameless actress in newsweek a while back about how it's nearly impossible for black women to get leading roles as romantic interest in movies. White women don't like seeing black women in the roles of romantic interst because they want to feel as though it is they themselves in that role, and they feel, or production feels, as though this affect cannot be achieved with a black actress. Yet, if a movie features both a black actor and black actress in romantic roles, then it is a "black movie" and white people will feel that it is not for them, and ignore it entirely. This is why there has been a ridiculous surge in the number of hispanic women in the roles of romantic interest. They can play to a black male (Hitch) or a white male (Monster in Law) and minorities will feel comfortable with it as well as white women. Also, as was mentioned, audiances don't respond well to black men with white women, as white audinaces do not feel empathetic to it and feel a need to be protective over the white woman. This stuff isn't just made it, it's quite real. Apparently the writer for Gray's Anatomy, a black woman, sent out a call for actors and the studio sent a bunch of white people. When the question "where are the people of color" arose, the studio replied with a "OH! Is this supposed to be an ethnic show!? Sorry!" and sent over some non white people. Then a call went out for writers and the same thing happened.

    America very much wears a white face, and i find it disagreeable when people dismiss that. Are all claims of racism valid? of course not. But I do very much hate it when white people respond in a kneejerk reaction to something they don't understand. It's not a character failing that they don't understand it, as they have no real reason to, but it is a situation where I wish they would, more often, say "Maybe I should listen here instead of talking because it's entirely possible that there is a whole side to life that I have no idea even exist".

    As for BSG, I don't have a huge problem with it. While I do beleive that we all have a right for television shows not to be racist, I don't neccesarily think that every show needs to be racially progressive. We've seen Boomer have a relationship with the Chief and with Hilo. We've seen Dee have a relationship with both Billy and Lee. We have charachters whos background I don't even have a clue about like Dee (I know people probably assume she's black, but she looks way more middle eastern to me) and Mr Gaeda. And more fantastically, we have no stereotyping at all of any charachter ethnicities. What more could you really ask for? I'm kind of glad, actually, that there aren't more minorities of any specific type on board the galactica because it makes it easier for them to resist the temptation to pair the charachters just because they are of the same race.

    I would, though, like to see more shows in general that have minority males hooking up with majority females. the inverse isn't really progressive since it's actually a lasting form of racism. Even back in the tv western days it was fine for a cowboy to have a relationship with an indian woman, but indian men were always portrayed as dumb and violent. Male conquest of minority females is, I think, also what the original poster was getting at as being racist.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [11]Feb 20, 2006
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    I don't think it's Ronald Moore's duty to fight racism that exists in the "TV system" and in every show everywhere. Why should that be his responsibility? You'd think that he was following in the footsteps of Leni Riefenstahl, according to some of the comments here. My problem is with the original poster implying that Battlestar Galactica is racist and "Aryan" because Boomer is no longer a black male. That really seems to be what is getting under that person's skin. I don't really see how making the character an Asian woman makes the show "Aryan." I only use that word because that was the word the original poster used.

    As for the Hispanic character, I'm talking about Adama. Although he is not necessarily Hispanic, you can't separate the character from the actor. Edward James Olmos is well known for his activism in Latino causes and he has not shied away from playing Latino characters throughout his career. It is a little insulting to say that he doesn't "count" as a minority because he's Hispanic. I doubt he would feel the same way as you do or as Syndicate does. Actually I know he feels differently because of his many speeches and campaigns on that very subject. I even saw him speaking about the topic in person once. He definitely gets VERY passionate about the subject.

    Does racism exist in the world? Of course it does, and among ALL groups. Is BSG racist? No, and I think it is unfair to imply that it is. Eddie Olmos, Grace Park and Kandyse McClure are not Anglo-Saxon actors and they have very key roles in the show. The point I made about Canadian actors was limited to their nationality/citizenship, NOT their race. Grace Park and Kandyse McClure are both Canadians (Grace was born in the U.S. but raised in Canada) but neither is white. The Canada/British angle is not a racial one. It is a question of nationality/citizenship only. There are Canadians of many races and accordingly there are Canadian actors on the show of different races and ethnicities, including Asian Indian/South Asian.
    EDIT-As additional evidence of the multiracial makeup of Canada, the current Governor General of Canada (the de facto head of state, although Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom is the constitutional head of state) is a black Haitian immigrant, Michaƫlle Jean. The previous Governor General was Adrienne Clarkson, an immigrant from Hong Kong and ethnically Chinese. The Governor General has largely ceremonial duties, similar to those of the Queen of England, but it is significant that these two women are the public face of Canada. Interestingly, both women are married to Caucasian men, something that seemed to bother the original poster here.

    More facts about Canada: 9% of Canadians are of Asian heritage. An additional 4% are members of other racial minorities.

    As far as black women in romantic roles goes, Halle Berry, for one, seems to appear in an awful lot of movies, in romantic roles, in action roles, in dramatic roles. Thandie Newton, a very attractive black actress, appears in romantic roles in mainstream projects. (I can't call her African American because she is Zambian and British, both by blood and by past residence.) Queen Latifah and Oprah Winfrey are both enormously successful and in demand, in both movies and on television. That puts the lie to the claim that it is "nearly impossible." Are there difficulties involved? Yes, but there are difficulties for every actor other than those select few on the A List. I'm not really sure what this has to do with BSG so I'll move on.

    I don't like the way that some people try to tar others with the "racist" label just because they don't like everything about their work or because one of their favorite characters changed. Quite frankly it's slanderous and unfair. If someone has a problem with the TV system, then talk about the "system." Don't blame Ronald Moore for all the world's ills and sins. He certainly isn't adding to them with his show. And saying so doesn't make me a racist.
    Edited on 02/26/2006 6:39pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of Parae434

    Parae434

    [12]Feb 20, 2006
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    Word
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [13]Feb 20, 2006
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    I think the guy who started this thread was over the top but at the same token. I can see how a fan of the original would be disappointed at how this show unfolds like every-other one. It would be nice if non-white characters took a greater role kinda like Star Treks view of human utopia and male ones especially. I don't disagree with what the thread starter said only how he applies his points.
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  • Avatar of czar999

    czar999

    [14]Feb 20, 2006
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    I am sorry in which part of the Constitution do "we all have a right for television shows not to be racist." I must have missed that one in my civics class. That is the biggest load I have heard in a long time. Maybe it is in the U.N. Charter? People need to get a grip. If you do not like a show because it does not have enough minorities or to many women being sluts stop watching. The off button is a powerful thing. If you have lost the remote the switch on the TV still works. Although I am pi$$ed now because the only black man on Stargate Atlantis is now a freak alien and not on the show any more.
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    danharr

    [15]Feb 21, 2006
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    czar999 wrote:
    Although I am pi$$ed now because the only black man on Stargate Atlantis is now a freak alien and not on the show any more.


    Which can be a form of tv racism in itself, wonder why black men can't be normal characters on a show and stay? Ah well at least Ronan can pass as black!
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [16]Feb 21, 2006
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    Ford is much more interesting now that he is a Wraith-enzyme addict. He was pretty boring before. It would be nice to see him more often though.
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  • Avatar of BisquickDynamo

    BisquickDynamo

    [17]Feb 21, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 02/21/2006 4:21pm
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  • Avatar of BisquickDynamo

    BisquickDynamo

    [18]Feb 21, 2006
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    czar999 wrote:
    I am sorry in which part of the Constitution do "we all have a right for television shows not to be racist." I must have missed that one in my civics class. That is the biggest load I have heard in a long time. Maybe it is in the U.N. Charter? People need to get a grip. If you do not like a show because it does not have enough minorities or to many women being sluts stop watching. The off button is a powerful thing. If you have lost the remote the switch on the TV still works. Although I am pi$$ed now because the only black man on Stargate Atlantis is now a freak alien and not on the show any more.


    Did I ever say it was in the constitution, or written down anywhere? Of course I didn't. That wasn't my point, intent, and I don't even feel that someone could misconstrue that as being my point.

    Stop ranting.
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [19]Feb 21, 2006
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    123home123 wrote:
    Ford is much more interesting now that he is a Wraith-enzyme addict. He was pretty boring before. It would be nice to see him more often though.


    But the question is why does he need to be a wraith-enzyme addict to be intresting? Teyla is from another planet but human and intresting. Why not ford, why did they let his character fall into mediocrity until they had no choice but to make him a monster?
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [20]Feb 21, 2006
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    danharr wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    Ford is much more interesting now that he is a Wraith-enzyme addict. He was pretty boring before. It would be nice to see him more often though.


    But the question is why does he need to be a wraith-enzyme addict to be intresting? Teyla is from another planet but human and intresting. Why not ford, why did they let his character fall into mediocrity until they had no choice but to make him a monster?

    Not everything is a secret conspiracy by the writers. Why does any character fall to the wayside? The writers, the producers or the audience lose interest in them. Ford wasn't that spectacular a character to begin with. He's just an ordinary soldier. He doesn't have the Ancient gene, he's not a brilliant scientist, he didn't have extraordinary hand-to-hand fighting skills and he's not an alien. Atlantis has become a two-man show, with the focus on Sheppard and McKay.

    As for Ronon, Ford's "replacement," his character has completely stagnated. Although I didn't see last week's episode (in the U.S.), his character doesn't do much anymore other than swing his sword around with fancy moves. Is that racism? Most of the other characters are underused, including Teyla, Weir and Beckett, who has been known to disappear for weeks at a time, despite being listed as a primary cast member. Is there a conspiracy against Beckett? Or against Weir? No, and there wasn't one against Ford either. The writers just chose not to make Atlantis an ensemble show like BSG is. Is that a wise move? That's up to everyone to judge individually, but that is not a racist move.

    The definition and status of a series star is much more fluid on BSG. For example, Baltar and Number Six disappeared for two weeks in a row at one point, and we saw much more of Dee and Billy. Kara, Sharon and Adama have disappeared from some episodes. On the other hand, even though Tyrol, Dee, Billy, Cally, Crashdown and Col. Tigh are not listed in the primary cast, there have been episodes that focused on each of them.

    I guess what bothers me about the "persecution complex" that some people have is that it is so often used to justify extreme actions and unfair actions. The idea is that if one has been treated unjustly, then one has complete authority/justification to exact revenge. I don't claim to know whether anyone here thinks like that, but I see this in real life. In my view, a self-described "victim" loses any moral authority he thinks he has when all of his self-righteous rhetoric is just loosely disguised revenge. Some people use the victimhood to justify acts of violence, others create an atmosphere that is conducive to acts of revenge (bordering on incitement) and others try to tar people with the evil "racist" moniker willy-nilly. I don't like it and that's why I'm probably going on about this topic more than I should. Anyway those are more of my thoughts on the matter.
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