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Re-watch Observations (spoilers)

  • Avatar of adiav

    adiav

    [1]Jul 21, 2008
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    I'm introducing my mother to the wonderful world of BSG, starting with the Mini Series, and am watching it along with her. Watching back over the series with the knowledge of what's going on at the break in Season 4 is interesting, and little bits and pieces stand out more this time around than they did when I first watched it.

    I can't be the only person re-watching BSG in this seemingly-endless break, so I wanted to make a thread dedicated to observations that are more interesting with the value of hindsight added.

    For example, in the briefing room when Lee joins the crew for the first time. Starbuck is in the brig for punching Tigh, and when discussing the program for the decommissioning ceremony, the CAG says, "We've got a few changes to the flight plan: Lieutenant Thrace is being replaced in the slot by Lieutenant Anders."

    It's probably nothing, most likely just a matter of them using a name once, liking it, and using it later for another character, but I thought it was interesting considering the relationship that Samuel T. Anders and Kara Thrace end up having - and that it's not the same Anders.

    A lot of importance has been ascribed to the person that Caprica Six turns to in the Mini Series and says, "It's about time. Wondered when you'd get here." With this in mind I watched the lead up to this scene carefully, studying the background for clues. Again, it's probably nothing, but amongst all the families and couples meandering through the square, a lone man stood out: He was leaning against the pilon in the background, reading a book. Loitering, when everyone else was doing something. I'd guess him to be about 6'-6'3", Caucasian, brown hair, wearing a light grey hoodie. Is it anything? Probably not.

    One thing worth pondering is that, if this person that Caprica Six speaks to is indeed the final Cylon, they obviously cannot have been on Galactica or otherwise in space at the time. They had to be on Caprica. That rules out Starbuck (who was in the brig), Apollo, Helo, Cally, Dee, Bill Adama, Billy, Laura Roslin (as Billy and Roslin were en route to Galactica for the decommissioning ceremony), Gaeta, and Baltar (because he just left Caprica Six on Caprica).

    We already know that Boomer, Tyrol, and Tigh are Cylons, so I'm not counting them.

    That's it so far, I'm only at the end of the first part of the Mini Series. If anyone notices anything else or wants to throw their 2 credits in, feel free.

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  • Avatar of adiav

    adiav

    [2]Jul 29, 2008
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    Two more things as of the end of the Mini Series:

    1: Commander Adama and Colonel Tigh both pronounce Gaeta's name differently in the Mini Series. At first I thought it was just Tigh being drunk, but lo and behold, Adama calls him "Guy-ta" instead of "Gay-ta" as well. It's a little jarring, and I'm wondering why it changed. I'll also be interested to see just when it changes to "Gay-ta", the pronunciation we're all used to.

    2: After Six points out to Baltar the "Cylon device" ("Oh look, a Cylon device!") in the CIC, identical to the one from her briefcase, they have a conversation about setting someone else up as a Cylon, because, as it wasn't Six's job to install it, there's obviously another Cylon aboard the ship. Baltar suggests Aaron Doral (because he had just interrupted him in flagrante delicto with Six in the CIC and made him feel embarrassed ("Are you alright? You look a little flushed..")), and their conversation goes like this:

    Six: "What are you thinking?"

    Baltar: "I'm thinking someone else might need to be implicated as a Cylon agent."

    Six: "He doesn't seem the type and I don't remember seeing him at any of the Cylon parties..."

    Six grins.

    Baltar: "Funny."

    Sound familiar? Yeah, it's very similar to the conversation Cavil has with Tyrol, about how Tyrol can't be a Cylon, as Cavil hasn't seen him at any of the meetings. That can't be a coincidence.

    This actually makes me wonder if there's something in the Cylon programming that makes them deny that somebody is a Cylon, even if they are. It would've been easy for Six to say that yes, Aaron Doral is a Cylon, seeing as Baltar was going to implicate him anyway - but she didn't. We can argue that Cavil didn't know that Tyrol was a Cylon, but Six undoubtedly knew that Aaron Doral was, so why did she deny it?

    Have there been any other times that known Cylons have denied that someone was a Cylon, and they either were or later turned out to be a Cylon?

    If this is the case, it actually wouldn't surprise me to know that Cavil knew who the Final Five were, and denied it anyway... he's a scheming old bastard, as it is.

    Anyway, even if it's not significant (and I'm totally open to it not being significant), I thought it was a cute little tie-in.


    Am I the only one re-watching BSG? Or am I just the only one posting about it?
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  • Avatar of adiav

    adiav

    [3]Jul 29, 2008
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    Oh yeah, one more thing:

    Baltar and Six have a conversation on Caprica where, when Baltar asks her what she wants him to do, she replies,

    "I want you to love me, Gaius, because god is love."

    Because I think too much, this makes me wonder:

    If it's just Six's desire to live a good, god-loving, Cylon life; or

    If it's some allusion to Baltar's later role as a prophet of sorts for the Cylon monotheistic religion; or

    If Baltar actually plays a greater role in the Cylons' religion than we as yet realise. (The phrase could be read that she's grooming him to act a certain way, to become something he's not... yet.)

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    Carl_Barrass

    [4]Sep 29, 2008
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    Several points to make.

    Like I've said before, When Six made her comment about "it's about time you got here", it's just the use of an old theatre trick. You have the character speak something out loud that expresses there current thoughts, allowing the audience to know what they're thinking.

    It's 100% certain that there was no one stood next to her, or anywhere near her who would have any understanding of what that comment meant. That comment was made solely for our, (the audience's), benefit so that we know the rest of the Cylons have finally arrived, (and thus big crap is about to take place).

    Even assuming there was someone there, 6 could not know they where the 5th, and I think we all agree he/she/it, (if they even existed which I'm certain they didn't, but I'm humouring you anyway), was in on the plan somehow, so that limits them purely to the known 7 models.

    Things like the pronunciation and Anders and the rest of them are just random littlie things that got dropped in, I suspect that said Lt. Anders was originally supposed to fulfil the role Anders now fills, but they changed their minds after the miniseries as to how and when they wanted to introduce him. In a similar Vein I suspect the pronunciation change stemmed from a simple accent issue, whoever first pronounced the name to everyone probably had an accent that would pronounce it like that, and it later changed naturally to it's current form.

    Again, the conversation between 6 and Baltar is irrelevant, we know categorically he is not the 5th, the most we can say is that they maybe planned to make him a final 5 originally and changed there minds.

    Your last point is interesting but skims over something much more substantial. Baltar's Head 6 knows things about the overall plans of the Cylons that Bltar, (and at the time of original airing, us the viewer), didn't know about. Given that 6 had no real chance to tell him all that, (and it's obviously new info to Gaius), that means head 6 cannot be a figment of his imagination. She knows the overall Cylon plan too well.

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    MrBovineOrdure

    [5]Sep 30, 2008
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    I think it's a mistake to assume that head-6 is the same as Caprica-6 with all her memories. I tend to think it's a means for whoever is running this gambit to make a line of communications with a human. She may not have all the memories of Caprica-6. Then again, whoever is running this would surely know the identities of all the Cylons. Also as I mentioned before, Caprica-6 may have known the person she turned to saying "It's about time...". My thoughts are that the plan to bring down the mainframe may have required the involvement of the final one. Since memory wipes seem to be common among the Cylons, it's certainly within the capability of the final one to use Caprica-6 for as long as she was needed, then wipe her mind when everything was set.

    Another instance of a Cylon denying the existence (though omission) is when they went back to Caprica to rescue Anders and his party. Brother Cavil introduced himself into the crowd (wonder why none of Ander's troops caught the addition of this stranger, they couldn't have thought he came with the landing party, after all, why would a rescue party need a pastor; one not heavily armed and flack-jacketed) Sharon didn't identify him. Adama sused that out right away when Cavil made it back to the Galactica, was immediately IDed and Adama pointed to Sharon and said; "Take that thing to the brig" knowing she knew about Cavil and not saying anything about it. She DID say she would never identify another Cylon later, and she had the added hatred of having lost her baby.

    Yes, I'm currently rewatching the episodes too. I'm just staring season 3. I've mentioned that with all the clues dropped, I think the final one is Ellen. One thing I didn't realize is that she must be the one who murdered the would-be assassin of Rosalyn on Cloud-9. Apart from Zarek (who ended up telling Rosalyn that he wasn't responsible for killing him) Ellen was the only other one who knew about this. Sure Zarek could have been lying. My gut tells me he wasn't. It's still a mysery as to why she did that. On the surface, it may have been to protect Zarek whom she preferred to be president, but if she's the final one, why mess with the Dying-leader predictions unless the Cylon plan is to break the cycle of time?

    Its truely a joy to go through these episodes!

    Mr BO

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    Carl_Barrass

    [6]Sep 30, 2008
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    While it may well be possibble that the 5th used 6, I just don't see it as likly, it's grasping at straws trying to make the one line in the miniseries mean somthing. Likewise, it dosen't really matter if head 6 shares real 6's memories, or if cylons have lied via ommishion before.

    It's conclusivly established, both in and out universe tht non of the 7 originols knows who the 5 are, sop it's pretty irrelevent overall. 6 does not know who the 5 are, so your brain wipe theroey aside even if there was somone there, (and theres no reason to belive there is if your familiar with the technique i mentiond), it wasn't the 5th.

    Also what head 6 does and does not klnow is irrelevent to the fact that head 6 told Baltar key points about the Cylon's plans and belifs, long before anyone else in-universe, or in-the-audiance knew of those facts. Many people belive head 6 is baltar's imagination, but head 6's knowlage of things baltar could not possibbly know proves she isn't, (and him beibng the 5th dosen';t work because A) we';ve had it stated he's not, and B), they where going to make Kara return as a "head Kara" with lee, so unless you want him to be the 6th missing Cylon it dosen't fly bvery well:p).

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    hazelnut144

    [7]Oct 1, 2008
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    Also, keep in mind the fact that they probably didn't have the whole "Final Five" thing planned out back in the miniseries, or even the first season really. I mean the cylons weren't even really characters until "Downloaded". And also, the four were mostly "who would shock the audience" random picks. So although I do believe that the final cylon may well have been planned out since the beginning (I believe I read something to that extent somewhere), I don't think that the whole "Final Five" plot was planned that far back. Most tv shows really only plan out a season in advance or so. I mean, Kara dying, was just like "Oh you know what would be really fun? If we killed Kara, and really kept it secret...the fans would FREAK OUT"
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    Carl_Barrass

    [8]Oct 2, 2008
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    Moore has stated that they knew the basic outline of what they where going to do from day 1.

    So allthough they probably hadn't decided it was Kara they where going to off, or who the five where, many of the other elements where allmost certianly pre-planned in broad strokes.

    Edited on 10/02/2008 8:22am
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    jugglepuff

    [9]Nov 3, 2008
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    I have a quick question - at the beginning of Series 4 when Starbuck comes back why was she now sent to the Doctor, who in Series 3 was able to tell that Bulldog was human and not a cylon. It would have saved alot of hassle. Did no-one think of this??
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    MrBovineOrdure

    [10]Nov 4, 2008
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    The fact that they have several means of telling a Cylon from human comes and goes with the convenience to the story.

    Baltar's Cylon detector DID work. It's just no-one really trusts it because he wasn't honest with anyone about the results. Since his presidency was such a disaster, noone (in command) would trust anything he'd say anyway.

    But he did map out Cylon Blood-types. This is what saved Rosalyn from cancer in the first place. You'd assume they can test for that blood type.

    That and the fact that they have Silicone pathways for a nervous system (mentioned in the mini-series, but never mentioned again). They have Fiber-optic connections in their forearms (Done in 2 episodes). You'd think they'd come up with a test they'd trust by now.

    Mr BO

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