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Syfy (ended 2010)

Ron Moore interview on Cicago Tribune-Kara explanation

  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [1]Mar 24, 2009
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    I just wanted to update the people on here as to what Ron Moore and David Eick has being saying about the finale. On the Chicago Tribune feature blogs, there is a reporter that is a big fan and looks to be very connected to Ron Moore, because his aswers there were not the stock answers he gave in others I read. When asked about Kara, he stated :

    MR: There's part of you that likes ticking off the fans a little bit, right? [laughs] Do you ever anticipate it? Are there moments when you go, "I'm OK with this development, it works for me, and I think it'll really tick people off!"

    RDM: As long as I'm pretty secure in what it is and the reasons why we're doing it, as long as we're not doing it just to tick them off. This is very much in that ballpark. We had lots of discussions about it, we explored lots of different avenues, and they were just all unsatisfying. If she just sprouted wings and flew up to the clouds, it would not be a satisfying ending. It just wouldn't. We never heard and I have yet to hear a concrete definition of Kara Thrace that becomes more satisfying than what we have.

    What we have a has a sort of poetry and mystery to it and preserves the mystery and sort of lets people debate and think and wonder what she meant and where she came from and what that was all about. And it's also clear that she was about getting them to their salvation. She was the harbinger of death, and brought them to that, and she was the harbinger of life and brought them to that as well.

    MR: I know that you don't let yourself be guided by what you think the fan reaction might be, and you do what you feel is right for the show, but the ending of Kara - her just disappearing like that. That'll certainly be a starting point for debate.

    RDM: Oh yeah, it'll be controversial. There will be people who will absolutely hate it and think that we failed in our mission. We debated it in the [writers] room, I thought about it a long time, and I had sort of the same answer. And the more I struggled to give definition to it, the less satisfying it became. There various avenues we went down, discussions, saying she's specifically this or that. And every time it felt uninteresting and kind of pedestrian.

    It felt like, if she's truly connected to the Eternal, if she's connected to this other power, this other thing in the universe, as long as you know she's connected to it and she's fulfilled her destiny, brought us to this place, brought us to two Earths, really, that's enough. That should just be left to your imagination, left to your inquiry, left you to try to fill in the blanks we leave. That was my answer and I'm sure -- I know - people will debate it.

    Starbuck MR: It worked for me, but I also wondered, has she been a Head character this whole time?

    RDM: That's a legitimate way to look at it too. We talked about that, that is a legitimate way to read it.

    MR: But the Head characters can't actually interact with the world, so it's not quite that.

    RDM: This is a different thing, so it doesn't fit neatly into that category either.

    MR: The more I think about it, the more I think the Starbuck debate might set the Internets on fire.

    RDM: I have more than accepted the fact that there will be people who will never quite get over that.

    Just some fun info for people still looking for answers, thought I would bring it to this forum. The main thing I got from it was she was the harbinger of death as she lead them to Earth 1 and the harbinger of life when she led the to Earth 2.

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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [2]Mar 24, 2009
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    Thanks for this. It helps with my assumption of why Ron did what he did. Not speaking for everyone else, but for me personally.. I never asumed that he has everything laid out in a greater plan.. but had a general idea.. and made the rest up as he went along.

    For me, this is how I think of it. One of the biggest things that made the show great is the realism of the characters. Put yourself in their situation. " What would YOU do. Your friends, home family, posessions.. everything you knew, or thought was important is gone. The human race is pretty much wiped out. You're trapped in a small metal ship, overcrowded, on the run every moment of every day, the constant threat of annihlation . You're best friend could be your enemy, and every day could be your last. What do YOU do? You'd be prety fracked up. And so are these people."

    Those were Ron Moore's words to describe the show at the beginning. You start with that. Once that's in place, the writing has to go with letting the characters write the show. Let their decisions have consequences and let that drive the script. That said, the overall course of the plot surrounding that HAS to be secondary. Once there, you outline the story a season at a time. Season one.. episode thirteen. "Okay, we're on Colonial one.. Tigh Lee, and the marines VS the Pres. Guns all out. What now?"

    " Let's have Lee pull a gun on Tigh. We're gonna have him mutiny. "

    " Okay.. just to let you know. If we do this, realistically, you know what we're gonna have to deal with for the first half of season two, right?"

    "Yep."

    "Okay.. let's do it" .

    By this time, you already have a basic outline for season two.. a list of things, basic story elements you wish to explore in the next season. But now you have to alter that quite a bit by what Lee has just done to make it seem realistic. Some things will just be altered, other's scrapped comepletely. Maybe we'll come back to them.. maybe we won't. It depends on what happens in the season.

    So, did they have a general plan? Yeah. But since it's " the characters, stupid" .. ( a direct Moore quote, and not to call any viewer stupid, BTW, for those who know), then that plan is constantly being warped, re-shaped, and otherwise altered from day to day, episode to episode, season to season.

    This is why, when it came to the finale, Ron's mind sort of shorted out when he tried so hard to figure out the ending for the story.. gave up, and declared, " It's the characters, stupid".

    Now, I can see how a decent segment of the audience feels betrayed because now the ending does not go where they think it would. But if the writers stuck to the laid out plan without letting actions and consequences of the characters drive the story.. I think the series would have failed a long time ago. And some people feel it did anyway. Most of these seem to center around the time they started lifting the veil on the mysteries surrounding the Cylons in season three or so. Others feel it was the Final Five and the return of Kara. If you were loyal enough to stick atround until the end, and didn't like the explainations, or lack thereof, you were really pissed about that, as we found out this past weekend.

    I'm personally of the opinion that if they explained everything, we wouldn't have that much to talk about. This is one of the things I love most about this forum. I have never seen such an influx of intelligent talk, well thought out theories, friendly, and not so friendly debates, as I have here. And the varied reactions to the finale are the mighty culmination of that.

    And, for good or bad, right or wrong.. that's been one of the joys this show has been about for long time. I can understand being upset to a point, but personally, I can't understand letting that ruin the entire show for you. Maybe some will calm down, and re-watch it, and see things differently.. and maybe they won't. Maybe it won't change a thing. But one thing I do know.. Ron and David have given fandom some interesting things to talk about for a long time to come.. and that's another thing in a long line that will ultimately, I feel, make Battlestar Galactica a classic which will endure for ages.

    Edited on 03/24/2009 5:12pm
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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [3]Mar 24, 2009
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    Thanks for posting this. Even before I read any interviews or anything after the finale, where Ronald Moore talked about his reasons behind the decisions, I had a feeling that these would be the basic reasons behind Starbuck disappearing, this did help to shed even more light to it.

    As somebody who had to think of some of the decisions that were made before coming up with an opinion on them, but ultimately ended up loving the episode and ideas behind it, I have to say that I loved this decision from the moment I saw it. I do understand why some people hate it, but for me personally, I think it was a great decision.

    That being said, with as much thought as I put into the finale, how it affected the series as a whole, and trying to come up with ways that some of the things would make sense, or at least as much as it could make sense within a sci-fi/fantasy show, I honestly did not think of the first Earth being the meaning behind the "harbinger of death" phrase. I kind of believed in the dividing theory, where she was the "harbinger" and was "of death." But this makes much more sense.
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  • Avatar of MetaLuna

    MetaLuna

    [4]Mar 25, 2009
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    I just hope this settles it. Really, what would have been better? I agree with RDM - anything else would have just felt pedestrian.

    I think he was trying to work within the original mythos of BSG. Can someone confirm this? Didn't the original have Starbuck dying and coming back to life as a "light being"? Really, how else could RDM have worked that concept in without it seeming utterly stupid?

    Keep in mind, too, that Richard Hatch owned the original rights, didn't he? And I seem to remember that he was very picky about what direction this one got to take.
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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [5]Mar 25, 2009
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    MetaLuna wrote:
    I just hope this settles it. Really, what would have been better? I agree with RDM - anything else would have just felt pedestrian.

    I think he was trying to work within the original mythos of BSG. Can someone confirm this? Didn't the original have Starbuck dying and coming back to life as a "light being"? Really, how else could RDM have worked that concept in without it seeming utterly stupid?

    Keep in mind, too, that Richard Hatch owned the original rights, didn't he? And I seem to remember that he was very picky about what direction this one got to take.


    There was something like that in the original, yeah. I don't think (or at least don't remember ) that it was a "light being" that they replaced Starbuck with. I just think that they brought him back to life. But still, it does make sense that he might have been thinking about this when he came up with the idea, since he's used some elements from the original (in story, not just references) before, and obviously there are a lot of similarities between the ideas.
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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [6]Mar 25, 2009
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    MetaLuna wrote:
    I just hope this settles it. Really, what would have been better? I agree with RDM - anything else would have just felt pedestrian. I think he was trying to work within the original mythos of BSG. Can someone confirm this? Didn't the original have Starbuck dying and coming back to life as a "light being"? Really, how else could RDM have worked that concept in without it seeming utterly stupid? Keep in mind, too, that Richard Hatch owned the original rights, didn't he? And I seem to remember that he was very picky about what direction this one got to take.

    Close. It was Apollo, but not as a light being. They just restored life to his dead body as they were holding his soul in limbo.

    Universal has the rights to any television series, Hatch has a license on the written books, and Glen Larson has the movie rights. A clause in that states that any movie which comes out from this series has the right to be aired only once, and must be released on DVD within one week of airing. Which is why Razor was right away after airing, as will The Plan.

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    AegisAtreyu

    [7]Mar 28, 2009
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    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    There was something like that in the original, yeah. I don't think (or at least don't remember ) that it was a "light being" that they replaced Starbuck with. I just think that they brought him back to life. But still, it does make sense that he might have been thinking about this when he came up with the idea, since he's used some elements from the original (in story, not just references) before, and obviously there are a lot of similarities between the ideas.


    The pristine white viper links in nicely to the white uniforms and protective Aura's the gods gave Apollo in the original. I kind of made this link nearing the end of the first 10 eps. When Starbuck burns her body though that was confirmation for me that she must be some sort of Angel resurrected by the Cylon God. It just made sense. Her just disappearing at the end therefore didn't bother me at all.

    The Harbinger of death thing though, I'm glad RDM has now confirmed that cos I was confused by it.
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  • Avatar of alfridavella

    alfridavella

    [8]Mar 28, 2009
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    I`m still confused. Still alot of question not had been answered kara Starbuck is my favorite character and just disappeared not satifying for me or any information only driven by higher power that lame
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  • Avatar of Bionetic

    Bionetic

    [9]Apr 2, 2009
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    I agree, Starbuck just disappearing wasn't satisfying for me either. Of course having her sprouting wings wasn't a great idea either. Having her disappear might have worked if they padded it with a feasible way to rationalize it that leaves room for speculation. Maybe having Apollo have a dream like hallucination with her leaving in the night and her not being there when he wakes up or something like showing Apollo hallucinating and seeing Kara sprout wings or something. But just having her disappear was too abrupt and unsatisfying. I think a dream showing she is an angel would have worked out better because the importance of 'dreams' was a major theme in the series and typically biblically speaking angels always appeared in dreams and/or hallucinations.
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    ophee

    [10]Apr 6, 2009
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    I think it was done perfectly - she finished what she came for and then went. No stupid sprouting of wings and flying away.

    I do wonder if she disappeared at the same time as Laura died - was her purpose to support the dying leader find Earth? If so then as soon as Laura died she could be released.

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  • Avatar of sheli20

    sheli20

    [11]Jun 5, 2009
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    very disappointing
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  • Avatar of findusfunk

    findusfunk

    [12]Jun 7, 2009
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    More BS from Moore, unfortunately. There's 'ticking off the fans' and then there's making a mokery of fans investment in the show.
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  • Avatar of marto_dd

    marto_dd

    [13]Jun 24, 2009
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    I think Kara's ending was A LOT like Cordelia's ending in Angel.

    In Angel, Cordelia just woke up from a coma, she was never expected to wake up from, and she came to Angel and helped him with his mission. Then, at the end, she said "I am on a different road right now... The Powers owed me one and I didn't waste it." and she disappeared, just like that. Then there was a telephone call and Angel answered it and it was from the hospital and they said Cordelia have been there the whole time and she just died.

    With Kara it was the same. Kara just died there, during season 3. Then the Gods sent her back, just so she could do her last mission. And when she did, it was her time to go. And she even said something in that direction, I don't quite remember the exact thing, but it was something kind like Cordelia's "I'm on a different road."

    So I loved them both
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  • Avatar of sheli20

    sheli20

    [14]Jun 26, 2009
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    marto_dd wrote:

    I think Kara's ending was A LOT like Cordelia's ending in Angel.

    In Angel, Cordelia just woke up from a coma, she was never expected to wake up from, and she came to Angel and helped him with his mission. Then, at the end, she said "I am on a different road right now... The Powers owed me one and I didn't waste it." and she disappeared, just like that. Then there was a telephone call and Angel answered it and it was from the hospital and they said Cordelia have been there the whole time and she just died.

    With Kara it was the same. Kara just died there, during season 3. Then the Gods sent her back, just so she could do her last mission. And when she did, it was her time to go. And she even said something in that direction, I don't quite remember the exact thing, but it was something kind like Cordelia's "I'm on a different road."

    So I loved them both


    so on top of it all, you're saying it wasn't even an original thought?
    he just copied it from another show?????

    even more disappointing
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