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So what are Baltar's Head-Six and Caprica's Head-Baltar?

So what are Baltar's Head-Six and Caprica's Head-Baltar?

  • Avatar of Bionetic

    Bionetic

    [1]Mar 21, 2009
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    So what are Head-Six and Head-Baltar? I have read a few vague suggests that they were agents from the future, but i was hoping to find out how other people interpreted the scenes. I was under the impression that they were some type of transmission from the future. Basically, I'm leaning towards the idea that Baltar and Caprica survive for 150,000 years and ultimately send messages back to themselves paving the way for humanity's.

    I believe this because Baltar has had this uncanny instinct for survival from the start. I honestly don't think it's far fetched that he could find a way to survive for another 150.000 years with Six. Even though he doesn't have the tech, it always possible that the Centurions come back. And with Baltar's technological no how, kazaam!

    It would be a great way to explain where all the prophetic visions were coming from. It could also explain why so many integral characters managed to escape the holocaust in the 12 colonies. (For example, all 5 final cylons survive. )

    I also believe this because in past episodes, when Baltar was on Kobol, Head-Six told him how they would have children. To me Sol-Earth's (as in sol = the Sun) humanity is Baltar's and Caprica's children.

    There are other possible explainations, but that's my favorite possible explaination.

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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [2]Mar 21, 2009
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    In the final scene Caprica Six refers to "Gods plan" and Baltar reminds her that "It" does not like to be referred to by that name. Thus letting us know that they are both timeless beings who are associated with (work for?) an entity of some higher order of existence, who we perceive of as "God".

    At least thats my take on it.

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    blackclown98

    [3]Mar 21, 2009
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    IMHO it is obvious from their conversation at the end, that Head Baltar & Head Six are agents of some higher being.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [4]Mar 21, 2009
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    I think they were angels as stated by Baltar in the CIC. Maybe not angels as we traditionally view them but as agents or messengers of a mysterious higher power. Ronald Moore wisely did not try to explain this completely. it would just be too difficult. Regardless of whether you are a Christian, Buddhist, Jew, Muslim, agnostic, atheist or other, you have to admit that there is a lot out there beyond our comprehension.

    Though science has a lot of sway in the modern day, the scientists haven't even begun to answer some very basic questions of creation and existence. The current theory of creation, the Big Bang, merely states that the entire universe came from a singularity of infinite density and infinite mass. But they don't have a clue about what that singularity was or why it "decided" to explode at one point. You could probably drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out.

    Even if you set aside the issue of creation, you have to think about the nature of the universe. Does it have a "boundary"? Of course that question seems strange but what is at the "edge" of the universe? The astronomers have also created the concept of dark matter to explain the fact that their calculations of gravity and mass are off by about 90 percent. They say that 90 percent of the mass of the universe is "dark matter" but they don't have the least idea what that dark matter is. They can't measure it or see it. It's the same with dark energy, another placeholder category to describe something that fouls up all the calculations. This is why I think that theoretical physics involves just as much "faith" as traditional religion.

    With the serious approach of Battlestar Galactica, it would be highly presumptuous for the writers to fully explain the mysterious higher power on the show. It might come across as too cheesy. It's much better for Ronald Moore and company to leave some of those questions unanswered. Something caused the Big Bang to happen but no one knows. The universe came from somewhere but our physicists don't know where. These mysteries will probably never be solved by science. Thus, I'm glad that BSG chose to leave those ambiguities about the "angelic" creatures. If they explained too much, it might look too much like the detailed explanations of the Q from Star Trek: TNG or the Asgard from Stargate SG-1. I always thought that those two races/concepts were a weak point of those series.
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  • Avatar of Timewhisper

    Timewhisper

    [6]Mar 21, 2009
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    I thought the finale was great but it did take something away when it was revealed that head Caprica and head Baltar were not actually in their heads after all.
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  • Avatar of MetaLuna

    MetaLuna

    [7]Mar 21, 2009
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    Bionetic wrote:

    So what are Head-Six and Head-Baltar? I have read a few vague suggests that they were agents from the future, but i was hoping to find out how other people interpreted the scenes. I was under the impression that they were some type of transmission from the future. Basically, I'm leaning towards the idea that Baltar and Caprica survive for 150,000 years and ultimately send messages back to themselves paving the way for humanity's.

    I believe this because Baltar has had this uncanny instinct for survival from the start. I honestly don't think it's far fetched that he could find a way to survive for another 150.000 years with Six. Even though he doesn't have the tech, it always possible that the Centurions come back. And with Baltar's technological no how, kazaam!

    It would be a great way to explain where all the prophetic visions were coming from. It could also explain why so many integral characters managed to escape the holocaust in the 12 colonies. (For example, all 5 final cylons survive. )

    I also believe this because in past episodes, when Baltar was on Kobol, Head-Six told him how they would have children. To me Sol-Earth's (as in sol = the Sun) humanity is Baltar's and Caprica's children.

    There are other possible explainations, but that's my favorite possible explaination.



    Leave it to a Lost fan to explain away whatever the writers messed up.
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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [8]Mar 22, 2009
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    I did like the fact that God didn't like to be called that....

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [9]Mar 22, 2009
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    well, that is an interesting alternative explanation, but the consensus, and mine as well, is that they were angels, or messengers of a higher power. Why were six and baltar signaled out for such help? well maybe because they needed it the most. Six changed alot since the baby neck snapping evil of the miniseries. They were the characters with the most guilt as they were the ones most responsible for killing twelve billion people. God worked in mysterious ways to heal them. The finale scene with Baltar (not the angel one) where he breaks down saying "I know about farming" really carried emotional weight because he finally became a real person and changed. He is no longer the narcisist. God wanted them to find a new home, but went about it in the mysterious way he does. He (or whatever) didn't just snap his fingers but created the conditions for it to occur, with starbuck. This is maybe not satifying to those like this poster that wanted a sci-fi expanation for everything, but it was true to the spititual nature of the show, so I am satisfied with it.

    Baltar in Six in the fture confirmed they were angels to me. They obviously cannot die since they are supernatual and they are still chatting about whether humanity can survive. If you notice, noone else seemed to notice them, so were they really there, or invisible to everyone but the viewer? I believe the latter.

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  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [10]Mar 22, 2009
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    Oh, and I agree completely with 123home123. Showing the man behind the curtain (god) would have run the risk of being cheesy, or a Q ripoff from TNG. They did the right thing leaving it up to the imagination. I think it is enough that God (or whatever it is since it hates being called that..lol) worked in mysterious ways to give humanity and cylons a new home.
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  • Avatar of Bionetic

    Bionetic

    [11]Apr 2, 2009
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    MetaLuna wrote:
    Bionetic wrote:

    So what are Head-Six and Head-Baltar? I have read a few vague suggests that they were agents from the future, but i was hoping to find out how other people interpreted the scenes. I was under the impression that they were some type of transmission from the future. Basically, I'm leaning towards the idea that Baltar and Caprica survive for 150,000 years and ultimately send messages back to themselves paving the way for humanity's.

    I believe this because Baltar has had this uncanny instinct for survival from the start. I honestly don't think it's far fetched that he could find a way to survive for another 150.000 years with Six. Even though he doesn't have the tech, it always possible that the Centurions come back. And with Baltar's technological no how, kazaam!

    It would be a great way to explain where all the prophetic visions were coming from. It could also explain why so many integral characters managed to escape the holocaust in the 12 colonies. (For example, all 5 final cylons survive. )

    I also believe this because in past episodes, when Baltar was on Kobol, Head-Six told him how they would have children. To me Sol-Earth's (as in sol = the Sun) humanity is Baltar's and Caprica's children.

    There are other possible explainations, but that's my favorite possible explaination.



    Leave it to a Lost fan to explain away whatever the writers messed up.


    LOL, I'm not explaining it away. That's just how I interpreted the scene. That was one of the few parts of the finale that I was satisfied with. I guess I'm alone in my presumption. The thing is why show them in the future then? I mean if they are angels, (and I'm not saying there not) what is a significance of there presence in the modern world. There wasn't anything that suggested that they were invisible to the people walking down the street. I honestly think they were physically present in the modern world. And we know that the Final 5 managed to survive for 2000 years so I don't think it's a far stretch to think they could survive for 150,000 years. It would also explain the source of all the prophesies throughout the series. I don't think the concept makes the prophecies less miraculous. In essence there is a miracle in every baby that's born and in every sunrise and there are miracles in technology as well. God was working through them, but as corporeal beings using tech to influence the past through dreams and hallucinations.
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    tribalchic

    [13]Apr 3, 2009
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    [QUOTE="Bionetic"][QUOTE="MetaLuna"]
    Bionetic wrote:

    LOL, I'm not explaining it away. That's just how I interpreted the scene. That was one of the few parts of the finale that I was satisfied with. I guess I'm alone in my presumption. The thing is why show them in the future then? I mean if they are angels, (and I'm not saying there not) what is a significance of there presence in the modern world. There wasn't anything that suggested that they were invisible to the people walking down the street. I honestly think they were physically present in the modern world. And we know that the Final 5 managed to survive for 2000 years so I don't think it's a far stretch to think they could survive for 150,000 years. It would also explain the source of all the prophesies throughout the series. I don't think the concept makes the prophecies less miraculous. In essence there is a miracle in every baby that's born and in every sunrise and there are miracles in technology as well. God was working through them, but as corporeal beings using tech to influence the past through dreams and hallucinations.

    In most depictions of Angels they are able to appear to those who need them, but they can also choose to remain unseen. This is very much the case in the final scene. The guy (Ron Moore) reading the newspaper could not hear them speaking right over his shoulder as they were talking about him, the same way others couldn't hear/see their influence on Caprica or Baltar.

    The perfect example of this was in season ones 'Six Degrees Of Separation' where she corporialized herself as Shelley Godfrey to test Baltar an ultimately lead him to asking for forgiveness in a God he lost faith in. Ofcourse, no one knows for sure if it was her or not, but looking back on that episode it sure looks to be that way given what we know now.

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  • Avatar of ophee

    ophee

    [14]Apr 6, 2009
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    I don't think the angels/entities were actually Six and Baltar. When Baltar needed guidance an angel appeared to him in a familiar guise - Six. Same thing for Six - she got Baltar.

    The final 5 didn't live for 2000 years, they travelled for 2000 years at the speed of light, meaning their own experience of time was much less. And there's nothing to suggst that all 5 of them survived the attack on the colonies - both Ellen and Sam could have died and been resurrected by Cavill.

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  • Avatar of Bionetic

    Bionetic

    [15]Apr 7, 2009
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    ophee wrote:

    I don't think the angels/entities were actually Six and Baltar. When Baltar needed guidance an angel appeared to him in a familiar guise - Six. Same thing for Six - she got Baltar.

    The final 5 didn't live for 2000 years, they travelled for 2000 years at the speed of light, meaning their own experience of time was much less. And there's nothing to suggst that all 5 of them survived the attack on the colonies - both Ellen and Sam could have died and been resurrected by Cavill.



    I never remember hearing anything about them being in a state of suspended animation? I was under the presumption that they simply died and resurrected themselves repeatedly as they made the 2000 year journey.

    About Ellen and Sanders, but if they did die and resurrect wouldn't they have regained their memories?
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  • Avatar of bsj2099

    bsj2099

    [16]Apr 14, 2009
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    I just watched the season 2 2-parter "Home" and the Baltar side story in that was who or what is Six. She first said she was a cylon chip planted in his head disproved after he got a brain scan. Next, she said that his unconsciece mind made her all up and that he was crazy. At the end of the episode when he finds out that what she said would happen was gonna happen (Hera being born in the brig) he looks to her and asks her what she is and she says that she's an angel of the Lord sent to guide him. Exactly what she did during the course of the entire show. "Head" Six and Baltar are angels, end of line.
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    kanniballl

    [17]Apr 15, 2009
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    Bionetic wrote:
    I never remember hearing anything about them being in a state of suspended animation? I was under the presumption that they simply died and resurrected themselves repeatedly as they made the 2000 year journey. About Ellen and Sanders, but if they did die and resurrect wouldn't they have regained their memories?

    Ellen didn't say suspended animation, but I vaguely recall her mentioning relativistic effects.

    When she was telling them the missing pieces, she said that the sped from Earth to the colonies to warn them about creating artifical life and not treating them as equals might lead to civil war.

    She added that since they hadn't developed Jump technology that the trip took a very very long time. And I believe that she threw in a line saying that due to the relativistic effects of travelling near light speed that the time they experienced was relatively shorter.

    Then again, I also recall her telling Saul that they lived hundreds of years together (or whatever) and the fact that he doesn't remember is sad. So I could be wrong.

    Edited on 04/15/2009 11:39am
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    jackfloyd1973

    [18]May 12, 2009
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    likely of supernatural origin, living over 100 thousand years for a physical being is unlikely, could also be jinn (unclear about lifespan) or other supernatural being. as for the reference of creator not liking being called god, that term is also used for other lifeforms and idols that were worshiped instead when there is only one god, hence the term "the god", translated from Allah which is the word used my Muslim's, christians of the arabic traditions, other monotheists (to a much lesser degree), and arabs of the pagan era.
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    C3ltic_83

    [19]May 17, 2009
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    What I like most about those two, is that they were both main characters in nuclear holocaus, while one was doomed to live in shame and quilt, the other was famed 'bout her deeds. I think that Baltar and Six were in fact manifestations of these angels, just like Kara was later. Remember Baltars speech at hangar deck about rebirth and Kara? He was the same one and also was Six. Why didn't they just disappear to thin air at the end on Earth? Because their work was not yet completed, they needed to have children, to envolve. So if Baltar and Six were manifestations of angels, then headbaltar and headsix were themselves in form of other angel. On timeless word, time has no relevance, spirits can exist in one plane at different manifestations at once.
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