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Syfy (ended 2010)

Tents? (Episode 2-20 possible spoiler)

  • Avatar of Pedroff

    Pedroff

    [21]Mar 15, 2006
    • member since: 06/13/05
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    DocMartigan wrote:
    Pedroff wrote:
    DocMartigan wrote:
    Pedroff wrote:
    sven-jolly wrote:
    Pedroff wrote:
    Relax, I didn't say he was your regular capitalist, I said that he's your ultimate capitalist in that he's using capitalism in the worst and most corrupted way possible.

    Sorry. It didn't seem like you knew what capitalism meant (still doesn't really), so I posted links for you to look up definitions and understand how capitalism and other economic systems fit. Take away from it what you're able to I guess. My final word (hopefully), the black market was capitalism, New Caprica with Baltar controlling resources and means of production (what limited it is), is NOT capitalism.


    What you need to understand that their is good and bad in everything, you can use a gun for good or bad same goes for capitalism and almost everything in life, you can use it for bad or good.


    What does that have to do with what he is saying?

    You don't understand what capitalism is... be it good or bad


    Ofcoarse I understand but you don't understand that it could be used for good or bad just like anything in this world.


    NO YOU DONT. I don't care about your stupid "good or bad" thing... it's got nothing to do with the discussion. You said Baltar was a capitalist. HE ISN'T. Therefore you have no idea what capitalism is. Good Lord. And it's not "coarse" it's "course."


    Well anyway , since this is getting a little off topic we'll have to agree to disagree and that be the end of it.
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  • Avatar of Azarai

    Azarai

    [22]Mar 17, 2006
    • member since: 11/13/05
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    Pedroff, I think you missed his point. The reason it isn't capitalism is precisely what you state as a supposed "ultimate" or "corrupted" version of capitalism. If you have one man, like Baltar, controlling resources, production, and anything else, then it is far from capitalism. If you haven't noticed, the government doesn't control how much fast food you buy, or how many hours you work. What Baltar is doing, makes him more like Stalin than anyone else, only an apathetic version of Stalin (at least he isn't having people killed directly, I'll give Baltar one for that). No offense, but it seems like you miss the point when you steer the conversation away from the definition of Capitalism, to the struggle between good and evil. That has nothing to do with it. Lol. In Capitalism, force of will doesn't make the world go 'round, money does. If Baltar paid everyone to get his way, then it'd be slightly more like Capitalism. I don't know how to make it any more painfully obvious, but Capitalism means you go for what you want, individually, it doesn't mean you get yourself elected as leader and hold back resources and oppurtunities for employment. Honestly, go to wikipedia.org and type in 'capitalism', and you'll get the point.
    On another note, I wish people would've cleared their heads a little more before they let Baltar into positions of power constantly. I think 6's plans for him, or what she claims are God's plans for him, are muddling up the fleet constantly; what with his cowardice and incompetence. The guy gives troubled but brilliant people a bad name. I think the next episode is going to start off with the Cylons helping people (antibiotics, etc), but implementing new rules. I bet cruel irony will have 6 or a sharon teaching the kids, in a makeshift school. I would like to know what'll happen to Baltar, Roselyn, and also people from Galactica and Pegasus who came to live down there, instead of stay on the ships. Heh....It should be good.
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  • Avatar of Goliathfan1

    Goliathfan1

    [23]Mar 17, 2006
    • member since: 11/07/05
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    Well when I saw everone on New Caprica I immediatly thought "Gheto," well that's what it is, and personally I saw Baltar completely screwed the colonies because of everything that happens in part 2 of the season finale.
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  • Avatar of Pedroff

    Pedroff

    [24]Mar 17, 2006
    • member since: 06/13/05
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    Azarai wrote:
    Pedroff, I think you missed his point. The reason it isn't capitalism is precisely what you state as a supposed "ultimate" or "corrupted" version of capitalism. If you have one man, like Baltar, controlling resources, production, and anything else, then it is far from capitalism. If you haven't noticed, the government doesn't control how much fast food you buy, or how many hours you work. What Baltar is doing, makes him more like Stalin than anyone else, only an apathetic version of Stalin (at least he isn't having people killed directly, I'll give Baltar one for that). No offense, but it seems like you miss the point when you steer the conversation away from the definition of Capitalism, to the struggle between good and evil. That has nothing to do with it. Lol. In Capitalism, force of will doesn't make the world go 'round, money does. If Baltar paid everyone to get his way, then it'd be slightly more like Capitalism. I don't know how to make it any more painfully obvious, but Capitalism means you go for what you want, individually, it doesn't mean you get yourself elected as leader and hold back resources and oppurtunities for employment. Honestly, go to wikipedia.org and type in 'capitalism', and you'll get the point.
    On another note, I wish people would've cleared their heads a little more before they let Baltar into positions of power constantly. I think 6's plans for him, or what she claims are God's plans for him, are muddling up the fleet constantly; what with his cowardice and incompetence. The guy gives troubled but brilliant people a bad name. I think the next episode is going to start off with the Cylons helping people (antibiotics, etc), but implementing new rules. I bet cruel irony will have 6 or a sharon teaching the kids, in a makeshift school. I would like to know what'll happen to Baltar, Roselyn, and also people from Galactica and Pegasus who came to live down there, instead of stay on the ships. Heh....It should be good.


    Read my last post, that goes for you too.
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  • Avatar of Delameko

    Delameko

    [25]Mar 18, 2006
    • member since: 06/18/05
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    To be build huts and structures you need organisation. With that many people you can't just build your own hut, because where are you going to live while it's being built? Are you going to leave the hut you're building at the end of the day while you got back to your tent? Because on a planet as nasty as that people are desperate and you're most likely to come back the next morning and find some other desperate person/s inhabiting it.

    To be successful they should have taken people down in groups of maybe a 100 at a time and completely organised to build the structures and establish a community. Instead Baltar plonked down almost 40,000 people on the planet, with no strong leadership, everyone is out for themselves, making building a civilisation near impossible.

    Plus, I'm assuming the people that could have got everything organised; the people that could have made it a success are the people that most likely stayed with Galactica and Pegasus for as long as possible; the people Baltar managed to make enemies of.
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  • Avatar of DocMartigan

    DocMartigan

    [26]Mar 18, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
    Edited on 03/18/2006 11:09am
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  • Avatar of icanfix

    icanfix

    [27]Mar 18, 2006
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    all this individual long speach stuff alienats new chat

    anyway i wnat baltatr o get what he deserves, not just a bullet to the head when they get rid of him,
    kind of like that episode of outer limits where the uguy has to live the simulaton of pain over and over again,

    it would be cool if they turned baltar into a cylon as far as humans where conserned and they treat him like a cylon even though he would be human
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  • Avatar of JamesYucca

    JamesYucca

    [28]Mar 18, 2006
    • member since: 08/28/05
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    Delameko wrote:
    To be build huts and structures you need organisation. With that many people you can't just build your own hut, because where are you going to live while it's being built? Are you going to leave the hut you're building at the end of the day while you got back to your tent? Because on a planet as nasty as that people are desperate and you're most likely to come back the next morning and find some other desperate persons inhabiting it.

    This would only hols true in a society that does not have some kind of otherwise unemployed labor force, and some kind of police force. With the labor force you have people who are building everyone's hut (well, apartment buildings would be much wiser then huts), and with the police you have a way to remove the squatters. The problems you raise would not occur (or could be prevented easily) in a society as centralised and orgnaized as New Caprica.

    About capitalism,
    I wrote:
    "CAPITALISM" = "PRIVATE PROPERTY"

    if this is the case then free markets pop up and you have capitalism. Government, greed, money, evil robots, they all are unnecessary, they might show up, they might not. If they do it's capitalism, if they don't it's still capitalism
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  • Avatar of Agent_J69

    Agent_J69

    [29]Mar 18, 2006
    • member since: 06/10/03
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    Pedroff wrote:
    Baltar is your ultimate capitalist, only cares about himself rather than the people.

    Pedroff wrote:

    Relax, I didn't say he was your regular capitalist, I said that he's your ultimate capitalist in that he's using capitalism in the worst and most corrupted way possible.


    capitalism is a free-market system; an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit

    Pedroff, would you still use the term "ultimate capitalist" to describe Baltar after reading this definition
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  • Avatar of DocMartigan

    DocMartigan

    [30]Mar 18, 2006
    • member since: 02/18/04
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    Agent_J69 wrote:
    Pedroff wrote:
    Baltar is your ultimate capitalist, only cares about himself rather than the people.

    Pedroff wrote:

    Relax, I didn't say he was your regular capitalist, I said that he's your ultimate capitalist in that he's using capitalism in the worst and most corrupted way possible.


    capitalism is a free-market system; an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit

    Pedroff, would you still use the term "ultimate capitalist" to describe Baltar after reading this definition


    Pedroff's response will be like...

    "It's about how things are used for good and evil!"

    lol
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