Ben 10: Ultimate Alien Forums

Cartoon Network (ended 2012)

"Couples Retreat" Episode Talkback

  • Avatar of gdan95

    gdan95

    [21]Feb 19, 2012
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    nyfan wrote:

    A little off topic, but I always thought that any next generation Ben 10 stories, that after Ben's (I would assume Julie but who knows) kid, Kevin and Gwen's kid,that Charmcaster kid would be the third member of the team to follow the old formula. If like a lot fan fics use it is Ken and Delvin as the next generation characters, Charmcaster kid would be a girl to balence things out, and if Delvin inherited his dads powers than we need a magic user to the team.What do you guys think? I know it has been done before probably, but I think it is an awesome idea. Who knows we might some episodes that takes place in the future in the next series since it does jump back and forward between time periods, but that is another story.


    After seeing this episode, I immedately eleminated Darkstar as a possible father. But than again, maybe in a moment of weakness against her better judgement Charmcaster had a one night fling with Darkstar and that produced a daughter. Which leads to one episode plot idea I thought of, as you would thinkCharmcaster's kid knows little about her father, Charmcaster naturally doesn't want her to know what an a-hole her dad really is. But being a rebellious child she does whatever it takes to find out, putting clues together something she has done for years, and finally finds Darkstar. The episode plot is Darkstar sinking even lower than he has ever had in my opinion and that is saying something, minipulates her and tries to suck out his own daughters powers. One thing to do that to girls you are not related to, but your own daughter.Naturally Ken and Delvin does save her. It is a dark episode or chapter that has her realising that her dad would such a thing and in tears and having to be consolt by her friends at the end.

    ...I suppose that would be cool.
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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [22]Feb 19, 2012
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    I would rather see why Dwayne McDuffie thought Darkstarwas the most dangerous of Ben's enemies to be honest Nyan. After watching this episode I find Morningstartoo be a nuisance than a threat at this point. In all his UA appearances he is beaten easily. His plan to steal Kevin's power was so predictable that Ben had Copper put a shut off switch that ended "Ultimate Darkstar" before he could even use his power. This episode he did such a poor job of using Charmcaster that it was a miracle that Charmcaster bought his act for as long as she did. Even with Charm giving him his power he didn't do much in comparison to his AF appearances. Michael was a much better manipulator and villain before IMO. Like Vilgax and the Forever Knights he seemed to have declined as a villain.


    I was expecting to learn more about Darkstar's origin and power. McDuffie said he wasn't a alien or even a Plumber's kid. He can be a far more interesting character if the writers dive into his past and motivation. The way they are using him now is kind of meh for me. It is such a shame since he was one of the best villains in Alien Force. Feel like all my favorite villains in Ben 10 franchise are destined to be made lame in the newest series. Vilgax went from badass in the original to cliche in Alien Force. Now Darkstar went from savy to predictable and pathetic in Ulimate Alien. If the pattern holds Aggergor will be as ineffective and stupid in Omniverse series.

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    TimeHeroLink

    [23]Feb 19, 2012
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    Y'know, I just realized how right Nyfan is: Charmcaster needs a happy ending, because UA has just been screwing with her mercilessly.


    Her endings in the original series weren't all that bad. "Tough Luck": quickly and painlessly knocked out. "A Change Of Face": sent to juvie and about to get into a fight with two inmates that she'd probably win. "Don't Drink The Water": a happy ending for her, with her officially usurping Hex. "Ben 10 vs the Negative 10": locked in a forcefield with seven others and (according to "Secret of the Omnitrix" commentary) they all escaped later with no reprecussions other than a thwarted revenge.


    Her two AF showings ended fine too. She gets justifiably defeated in her first, and in her second....nothing, as it was an alternate timeline that ends up never happening.


    But in UA? Crushed by an amusement park ride. Locked away in her homeworld in a life-threatening situation. Broken down emotionally after failing to bring back her father and realizing how corrupted she's become. Heartbroken by Darkstar and with her castle totally collapsed. Damn it, Charmcaster better end UA on an actual happy note, or else......I'm gonna break something! Yell


    Edited on 02/20/2012 9:16am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of nyfan

    nyfan

    [24]Feb 19, 2012
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    Just me or does Darkstar remind you of a drug adict? And magical powers represent drugs. His appearace at the beginning of "Absolute Power" when he was a bum desperate for scraps, to how he acts once he gets a taste of Charmcaster powers. Their relationship started to mirror something of someone dating someone else for their endless supply of drugs.


    Darkstar is a junkie.

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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [25]Feb 19, 2012
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    That is was my understanding of the character so far. However, junkies don't make epic villains in fiction.
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  • Avatar of DBTrilogy100

    DBTrilogy100

    [26]Feb 19, 2012
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    In this episode of Ultimate Alien, we get the return of 2 villains, whose team up has been long desired by some fans!


    *We begin the episode with the trio already in action and the return of Michael Morningstar/Dark Star!


    *Dark Star has stolen Gwen's magic book! But he only takes one page...


    *To catch up, Ben turn into...Fast Track...again *face palm*...


    *Dark Star initiates the spell on the page and the results are...the entrance to the Ledger Domain!


    *After previously appearing in the previous episode, Charmcaster returns. She seems more composed then when we last saw her and she seems to have taking an interest in (the unconscious) Dark Star...


    *Dark Star awakens to the company of Charmcaster. Based on his reaction to his reflection, I'm wondering if enough time passed since Absolute Power where his face became deformed again. In any case, she seems quite fond of him; I take it the fans of this particular ship are quite happy.


    *Ben saying the symbols on the page was quite funny. Kevin's thoughts on Dark Star in Charmcaster's territory was also pretty funny.


    *Charmcaster gives Dark Star a "tour" by having him battle her magical minions! Dark Star is getting a lot stronger (no doubt from all that mana) and Charmcaster seems very "playful". Hmm, I wonder...


    *Gwen indirectly talking to Kevin by talking to Ben was a Crowning Moment of Funny! Seriously, what happened to make Gwen so angry at Kevin?


    *Kevin wacking the magic door with a hammer hand with no luck and Gwen's snark was priceless!


    *Dark Star and Charmcaster continue sparring with her magical minions and win with their combined powers! Yep, Charmcaster isn't over the events of the previous episode as she seemed to be at first glance...


    *The young villains just locked lips, I bet the fans of this ship are cheering at the top of their lungs! Dark Star has his "Ultimate Look" now. Ah, I see where the writers are going with this relationship...


    *Ah, so now we know why Gwen is angry at Kevin. Come on Gwen, Kevin meant well!


    *Charmcaster wakes up to find no sign of Dark Star and sends her minions to find him. Seem familiar to anyone else?


    *Dark Star is trying to leave and Charmcaster catches him. He says he wants revenge and Charmcaster says she also loves revenge...with some hesitation and gives him a "key" to come and go. I gotta give the writers prop for putting this sort of thing in the show, very gutsy.


    *Dark Star appears at the power mill from his first appearance back in Alien Force and battles the trio.


    *Dark Star has become a "mana addict" and returns to Ledger Domain. Good ol' Ben was able to catch a glimpse of the symbol he used and the trio enter following after him...


    *Dark Star and Charmcaster kiss once again...with the trio walking in on them! Kevin's line about not being able to unsee it and everyone knowing everyone was a big Crowning Moment of Funny!


    *Uh Michael, it's not a good idea to gloat evilly with Charmcaster in ear shot...


    *Charmcaster's reaction to hearing "Lovely Gwen" and Gwen admitting to have dated him was something else! Uh oh!


    *Dark Star relishes his new found power...and Charmcaster points out that he's never said her name. Him saying Heather sheepishly was priceless, he had it coming!


    *The trio are back on Earth and Charmcaster throws the now powerless Dark Star out as well! Dark Star pleading to Charmcaster while still getting her name wrong was quite funny, as was the trio about to beat the tar out of him!


    *Charmcaster is alone again and sadly looks out to the horizon. If you (for whatever reason) didn't feel bad for her then, you definitely will sympathize for her now. Will we see her again in the near future? Only time will tell, I suppose...


    A well done episode. It definitely teaches a very important lesson to the viewers. That just leaves 6 or so episodes left.

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  • Avatar of nyfan

    nyfan

    [27]Feb 19, 2012
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    TimeHeroLink wrote:


    Y'know, I just realized how right Nyfan is: Charmcaster needs a happy ending, because UA has just been screwing with her mercilessly.


    Her endings in the original series weren't all that bad. "Tough Luck": quickly and painlessly knocked out. "A Change Of Face": sent to juvie and about to get into a fight with two inmates that she'd probably win. "Don't Change The Water": a happy ending for her, with her officially usurping Hex. "Ben 10 vs the Negative 10": locked in a forcefield with seven others and (according to "Secret of the Omnitrix" commentary) they all escaped later with no reprecussions other than a thwarted revenge.


    Her two AF showings ended fine too. She gets justifiably defeated in her first, and in her second....nothing, as it was an alternate timeline that ends up never happening.


    But in UA? Crushed by an amusement park ride. Locked away in her homeworld in a life-threatening situation. Broken down emotionally after failing to bring back her father and realizing how corrupted she's become. Heartbroken by Darkstar and with her castle totally collapsed. Damn it, Charmcaster better end UA on an actual happy note, or else......I'm gonna break something! Yell


    All we can do is root and hope for the best. No pun indented. I felt the same way for Riruka in the Substitute Shinigami arc of Bleach and if you read that arc you know how it turns out I won't spoil it but it is over now. All the energy and emotional investment I put into Riruka, I can now put into Charmcaster.

    Edited on 02/20/2012 9:46am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of TimeHeroLink

    TimeHeroLink

    [28]Feb 20, 2012
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    nyfan wrote:
    Allwe can do is root and hope for the best. No pun indented. I felt the same way for Riruka in theSubstituteShinigamiarc of Bleach and if you read that arc you know how it turns out I won't spoil it but it is over now. All the energy and emotional investment I put into Riruka, Ican now put into Charmcaster.


    I know, Riruka got herself a happy ending even when the going got tough, so hopefully Charmcaster can too.

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  • Avatar of nyfan

    nyfan

    [29]Feb 20, 2012
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    I wonder if Gwen sympathy and trying to get aunderstanding of Charmcaster that we have seen despite being killed by her, shows a lot of maturity on her part. She is the only one of our main three that has walked a mile in Charmcaster's shoes. She did that in the original series. It took 6 years of maturing and wisdom to get the lession that life was hard for Charmcaster. No one was every nice to her, her despearation to bring her father back was because he was the only one that was nice to her, her diving head first into a relationship with Darkstar trying to fill a void. I am not a psychologic. She wants someone that cares for her, she wants a friend,and like I said before the irony of it all the closest person still living to that person is Gwen, and Charmcaster is doing everything in her powerto push her away.


    What I am trying to say, that is all ties together. Gwen seeing how desperate Charmcaster was to bring back her father, her relationship with Darkstar, and lastly her own experience being Charmcaster and how people treated her, it all factors into Gwen's feelings of trying to understand her. Her 10 year old self didn't realise that at the time, but she still has those memories and now with more maturity and wisdom maybe that has a bigger impact now.

    Edited on 02/20/2012 10:09am
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  • Avatar of ultimatekey

    ultimatekey

    [30]Feb 20, 2012
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    nyfan wrote:


    Just me or does Darkstar remind you of a drug adict? And magical powers represent drugs. His appearace at the beginning of "Absolute Power" when he was a bum desperate for scraps, to how he acts once he gets a taste of Charmcaster powers. Their relationship started to mirror something of someone dating someone else for their endless supply of drugs.


    Darkstar is a junkie.


    I thought so too. Its like hes a celebrity, since he's apparently rich or something, and he takes drugs secretly, which could be the energy of the girls he absorbs. And I thought Michael was a Plumber's kid, you know just not an alien. In the first episode we were introduced to him, he had a badge.


    And I've been thinking, since Gwen and Charmcaster had a sisterly relationship, how about CharmcasterXKen? I know Ken does not seem like the one into aliens and stuff, but what about magic? It could happen. And maybe they could get married and have children and Hope could be in good terms with Gwen finally, who knows? I figure it would be like Charmcaster walks into a magic antique store and she and Ken grab an item at the same time. And they look into each other eyes....... And it turns out that Charmcaster is really a magician and Ken likes it, and Gwen does not approve of it, but after they save Ken from an evil villain who captures him (maybe Hex because he thinks Ken is a weak human), she sees how Hope cares for Ken and is happy with them being together.


    But yeah, I could see them having a daughter and the daughter would be the female of the trio. What do you think?

    Edited on 02/20/2012 7:56pm
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  • Avatar of gdan95

    gdan95

    [31]Feb 20, 2012
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    Man, everybody thinks Charmcaster's gonna have a girl.
    Can we not think too far ahead and stick to the fact that the writers implied sex on a kids' show just a little bit longer?
    ...
    Or was all that the fangirl in everyone talking?
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  • Avatar of TimeHeroLink

    TimeHeroLink

    [32]Feb 20, 2012
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    Please, no more fanfic ideas or "What If" scenarios!


    Let's focus on the actual episode.

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  • Avatar of nyfan

    nyfan

    [33]Feb 20, 2012
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    I just realised something. At the end, our heros get back to earth, than soon after that the door to Ledgerdormain appears and Darkstar is kicked out. Since time moves faster in Ledgerdormain, who knows how long Darkstar was in there and how long Charmcaster gave him his comeuppings.


    Charmcaster did say no one could break through her defensive into Ledgerdormain. Anyone think that is a setup for Digaon tojust mow thorugh that unbrekable defensive like he was a straw house. I still tihink Charmcaster ruling a world is a plot device to push her into the main story as a target for Diagon. The last scene shows me that her story is not over yet, it feels incomplete.


    I don't think Darkstar is going to be helping out in the final battle, first of all he has betrayed our heros so many times that no way they would ever trust him again, and secondly he is powerless now. He can't get anymore power on earth. I think this was the last we see of Darkstar in this series. A fitting end, he started an egotestical rich pretty boy, who now has nothing and is a literal bum. We will see if they bring him back in the next Ben 10 series, but I don't expect to see him again for a while.

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    Flashheat

    [34]Feb 21, 2012
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    I just have two comments.

    1.Why does it never occur to Ben when fighting powerful mana users to change into the mana-immune Terraspin? I know his offense laves much to be desired, but when their attacks suddenly don't work is a good to smack em a few times.

    2.Charmcaster-"I like revenge." Boy...Charm gets off on some odd ****.

    Alo, I noticed she had her bag from the original series. Coolio.
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  • Avatar of nyfan

    nyfan

    [35]Feb 21, 2012
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    The late McDuffie said Darkstar was the most dangerious villain. I think they were trying to empathise that in this episode, because Gwen was worried about Darkstar taking over Ledgerdormain. She was more concerned with him having that power than Charmcaster the person that you know killed her and her friends, if you count the alternative time line, killed her twice. Now that is saying something, that is a compliment to Darkstar like him or not.

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    Flashheat

    [36]Feb 21, 2012
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    Yeah, but like Raizen said, Darkstar really hasn't done much lately to show he deserves that spot.

    Also, as far as SomeGuyxCharmcaster, I have to say I honestly think Cooper could work. Bright kid, should know by now he stands no chance at getting Gwen. Not to mention he's pretty much the technology counterpart to Charmcaster.(She has complete mastery of magic, he's got complete mastery of technology)
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    TimeHeroLink

    [37]Feb 21, 2012
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    Flashheat wrote:
    .Charmcaster-"I like revenge." Boy...Charm gets off on some odd ****.


    That was just a cover, she was clearly about to say "I like you" to Darkstar, but stopped herself and said "revenge" instead of "you".


    Not to say she isn't experienced in the ways of revenge.....

    Edited on 02/21/2012 1:36pm
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    gdan95

    [38]Feb 21, 2012
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    Flashheat wrote:
    Yeah, but like Raizen said, Darkstar really hasn't done much lately to show he deserves that spot.

    Also, as far as SomeGuyxCharmcaster, I have to say I honestly think Cooper could work. Bright kid, should know by now he stands no chance at getting Gwen. Not to mention he's pretty much the technology counterpart to Charmcaster.(She has complete mastery of magic, he's got complete mastery of technology)
    While we're in the field of "Some Guy/Charmcaster": http://cadexcharmcaster.deviantart.com/
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  • Avatar of nyfan

    nyfan

    [39]Feb 21, 2012
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    I went into this episode thinking about Charmcaster past villain alliances and how they never ended well, and thought that maybe Darkstar would treat her with some respect compared to the other villains, boy was I wrong. He turned out to be the worst of them all. I guess unlike Hex and all the others, he did respect her powers the most. The others looked down on her, so maybe he treated her with the most respect of all the villains she teamed up with. But he treated her the worst. I gained some respect for Hex, Rojo, Animo, Zombozo, and all the rest. At least they are upfront with their feelings and attitude unlike that two face Darkstar.

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    Fourarms10

    [40]Feb 21, 2012
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    DBTrilogy100 wrote:

    In this episode of Ultimate Alien, we get the return of 2 villains, whose team up has been long desired by some fans!


    *We begin the episode with the trio already in action and the return of Michael Morningstar/Dark Star!


    *Dark Star has stolen Gwen's magic book! But he only takes one page...


    *To catch up, Ben turn into...Fast Track...again *face palm*...


    *Dark Star initiates the spell on the page and the results are...the entrance to the Ledger Domain!


    *After previously appearing in the previous episode, Charmcaster returns. She seems more composed then when we last saw her and she seems to have taking an interest in (the unconscious) Dark Star...


    *Dark Star awakens to the company of Charmcaster. Based on his reaction to his reflection, I'm wondering if enough time passed since Absolute Power where his face became deformed again. In any case, she seems quite fond of him; I take it the fans of this particular ship are quite happy.


    *Ben saying the symbols on the page was quite funny. Kevin's thoughts on Dark Star in Charmcaster's territory was also pretty funny.


    *Charmcaster gives Dark Star a "tour" by having him battle her magical minions! Dark Star is getting a lot stronger (no doubt from all that mana) and Charmcaster seems very "playful". Hmm, I wonder...


    *Gwen indirectly talking to Kevin by talking to Ben was a Crowning Moment of Funny! Seriously, what happened to make Gwen so angry at Kevin?


    *Kevin wacking the magic door with a hammer hand with no luck and Gwen's snark was priceless!


    *Dark Star and Charmcaster continue sparring with her magical minions and win with their combined powers! Yep, Charmcaster isn't over the events of the previous episode as she seemed to be at first glance...


    *The young villains just locked lips, I bet the fans of this ship are cheering at the top of their lungs! Dark Star has his "Ultimate Look" now. Ah, I see where the writers are going with this relationship...


    *Ah, so now we know why Gwen is angry at Kevin. Come on Gwen, Kevin meant well!


    *Charmcaster wakes up to find no sign of Dark Star and sends her minions to find him. Seem familiar to anyone else?


    *Dark Star is trying to leave and Charmcaster catches him. He says he wants revenge and Charmcaster says she also loves revenge...with some hesitation and gives him a "key" to come and go. I gotta give the writers prop for putting this sort of thing in the show, very gutsy.


    *Dark Star appears at the power mill from his first appearance back in Alien Force and battles the trio.


    *Dark Star has become a "mana addict" and returns to Ledger Domain. Good ol' Ben was able to catch a glimpse of the symbol he used and the trio enter following after him...


    *Dark Star and Charmcaster kiss once again...with the trio walking in on them! Kevin's line about not being able to unsee it and everyone knowing everyone was a big Crowning Moment of Funny!


    *Uh Michael, it's not a good idea to gloat evilly with Charmcaster in ear shot...


    *Charmcaster's reaction to hearing "Lovely Gwen" and Gwen admitting to have dated him was something else! Uh oh!


    *Dark Star relishes his new found power...and Charmcaster points out that he's never said her name. Him saying Heather sheepishly was priceless, he had it coming!


    *The trio are back on Earth and Charmcaster throws the now powerless Dark Star out as well! Dark Star pleading to Charmcaster while still getting her name wrong was quite funny, as was the trio about to beat the tar out of him!


    *Charmcaster is alone again and sadly looks out to the horizon. If you (for whatever reason) didn't feel bad for her then, you definitely will sympathize for her now. Will we see her again in the near future? Only time will tell, I suppose...


    A well done episode. It definitely teaches a very important lesson to the viewers. That just leaves 6 or so episodes left.

    Nice to see another anti-Fasttrack person.
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