Ben 10: Ultimate Alien Forums

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"The Enemy of My Frenemy" Episode Talkback

  • Avatar of perualonso1

    perualonso1

    [1]Feb 2, 2012
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    Gwen and the gang set out to rescue Charmcaster.


    Prepare yourself for "Magic Madness" with your favorite spellbinding sorceress gone from villainess to heroine!

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    Endoplasmic888

    [2]Feb 3, 2012
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    Yay Charmcaster is back. I didn't think they'd return her.
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    Flashheat

    [3]Feb 7, 2012
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    Well, that's a surprise. Hope this goes well.
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    Nicktoons2

    [4]Feb 10, 2012
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    Sounds OK. One thing i HATE ITS ON SATURDAYS NOW!!!


    I hated it being on Saturdays on alien force. Now its on Saturdays for ultimate alien! GREAT


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  • Avatar of perualonso1

    perualonso1

    [5]Feb 11, 2012
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    Nicktoons2 wrote:


    Sounds OK. One thing i HATE ITS ON SATURDAYS NOW!!!


    I hated it being on Saturdays on alien force. Now its on Saturdays for ultimate alien! GREAT




    I didn't make this discussion board so someone couldsay that he or she hates Saturdays! I for one happen to love Saturdays.

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    RaizenYusuke

    [6]Feb 11, 2012
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    Charmcaster is beyond awesome. She actually succeeded and killed everyone in that world and brought her dad back. Of course her dad being the noble fellow he is returned so everyone else could live, but before telling her he loves her despite her fall from grace. Great episode. I know Charmcaster was the new boss when they said what's his name was overthrown. Lol at Kevin and Ben's discussion on villains never changing. I love that the writers are now acknowledging Kevin's villain past. I laughed when Ben pointed out that he trusted Kevin. Kevin's defense of being a kid was sort of weak. No offense to Kevin fans, but he was way worse than Charmcaster in the original, but he was insane back then, when he gained his sanity he did steal and sale weapons to dangerous destructive aliens which is still pretty evil lol. Too bad for Gwen that her arch enemy won't be joining the team like Kevin did, but at the same time I like Charmcaster can still be a potential villain. I would miss her if she turned good.
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  • Avatar of srebak

    srebak

    [7]Feb 11, 2012
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    I'm not sure about this episode, it seemed interesting, but i felt it was a step backwards for Charmcaster, as well as a huge heartbreaker for her.



    I myself don't see what can be done with her or how they could be done. On one hand, after the events of "Where Magic happens" i can't really see her as a villain anymore, and after her beloved Father showed a mild disdain for what she had become, i don't see why she'd want to be bad anymore. But on the other hand, after what she did, i don't see her working with the good guys any time soon, which is odd because Kevin himself threatened countless lives in the past, Ben and Gwen included.


    This makes me a little worried about the next episode, where Charmcaster is said to appear and as a villain once more.

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  • Avatar of Evil

    Evil

    [8]Feb 11, 2012
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    srebak wrote:


    I'm not sure about this episode, it seemed interesting, but i felt it was a step backwards for Charmcaster, as well as a huge heartbreaker for her.



    I myself don't see what can be done with her or how they could be done. On one hand, after the events of "Where Magic happens" i can't really see her as a villain anymore, and after her beloved Father showed a mild disdain for what she had become, i don't see why she'd want to be bad anymore. But on the other hand, after what she did, i don't see her working with the good guys any time soon, which is odd because Kevin himself threatened countless lives in the past, Ben and Gwen included.


    This makes me a little worried about the next episode, where Charmcaster is said to appear and as a villain once more. I don't see Charmcaster ever turning good and i don't see her ever working with the good guys at all.


    Edited on 02/11/2012 2:30pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of gdan95

    gdan95

    [9]Feb 11, 2012
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    Anybody got a link?
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    TimeHeroLink

    [10]Feb 11, 2012
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    I agree with Srebak. Turning Charmcaster back to the dark side was pointless. It undoes her development from "Where the Magic Happens" and all it does is dig a ditch as to how to use the character now. She can't go back to the villain she was before since they've made her so tragic, but now that she temporarily killed the heroes (among 600,000 others!), turning good again would be jarring. It pisses me off that Kevin was ALOT worse than Charmcaster wasin the original show, yet he gets to stay consistently on the good side, while Charmcaster is maderidiculously more evilin order to keep her off of it.


    So much of this episode did not gel with how Charmcaster was portrayed in "Where the Magic Happens". Back then, she clearly had a genuine desire to free her people, but now she enslaves and kills them. Back then, she said she didn't want Gwen dead anymore and grew more fond of her,but now she kills her andtreats her like dirt again. Back then, shemissed her father, but it was never indicated that ressurecting him was her life's ambition.....and if she realized that he wouldn't want her to commit suicide, shouldn't she have realized he wouldn't want her to commit mass murder!?


    Also....Hex LOVES his niece? Since WHEN? He ordered her around, insulted her, and threatened her on a regular basis! That's not love, that's flat-out abuse!


    This episode was stupid. 1 whole year of waiting for theCharmcaster-Ledgerdomain plotline to be resolved and THIS is what we get!? Then again,"Ultimate Alien" has suckedever since "Absolute Power" ended on the stupidest note possible, so why am I surprised?


    And next week, Charmcaster and Darkstar team up. Oh, joy...........-_-



    Edited on 02/11/2012 5:03pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [11]Feb 11, 2012
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    It doesn't have to be pointless. Charmcaster really needs to take a hard look at her life now and see what she wants to be. Having her a gray character without a clear path makes her more interesting than if she just bece a good guy. Redemption is also Another theme a theme he writers dropped with Kevin and swept his villainous deeds under the rug. The writers probably won't go there since Charmcaster is a villain again in the next episode.
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  • Avatar of DBTrilogy100

    DBTrilogy100

    [12]Feb 11, 2012
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    Today's episode of Ben 10: Ultimate Alien marks the return of two classic magic-themed villains!


    *This episode begins in a similar manner as the Alien Force episode, Time Heals, where Gwen enters Hex's mansion/library while wearing her Lucky Girl costume. Ah, I see they're using the good ol' "honey comb shield" effect from video games; it particularly reminds me of the Protect Spell from Final Fantasy X.


    *Hex makes his Ultimate Alien debate capturing Gwen as she tries to check out a book! If memory serves me right, this is the first time he calls her "Gwendolyn" (unless he did so in Time Heals).


    *Gwen explains the events of Where The Magic Happens to the elder spell caster...who actually releases Gwen, allows her access to his books and shows concern for his niece! You really got to hand it to the crew for making Hex sympathetic!


    *Gwen asks Hex for help, who feels he wouldn't live to make a difference and fears the worst for his niece. Although Dwayne had already told us about 2 years ago, it's nice to here in-show confirmation that Charmcaster's dad is Hex's brother. I am still impressed with how sympathetic Hex is, I really feel sorry for the poor guy and I can see how the incident hit him harder then it did Charmcaster (though it still hit her pretty hard).


    *Kevin points out the trouble Charmcaster has caused them, though Gwen points out how she redeemed herself last time they met. Ben and Kevin's contrasting answers to Gwen's question was a Crowning Moment of Funny!


    *Ben asking Gwen if she's "pirating magic" and referring to her as a "magic hacker" was a Crowning Moment of Funny! It was also a Crowning Moment of Heart Warming when Ben said how cool his cousin is!


    *I knew 3rd time would be the charm...caster (lame pun, I know).


    *Kevin casually saying he was going to regret this was a Crowning Moment of Funny!


    *The trio are magically tied together and Ben transforms into...Fast Track. Come on, I can't be the only one who wanted to see XLR8!


    *The trio run into a rock creature...who is actually friendly! He introduces himself as "Ignatius".


    *Ignatius acts as "Mr. Exposition" explaining what happened since Where The Magic Happens. Despite apparently disappearing, Adwaita appears to still be alive. Ignatius agrees to act as a guide for the trio.


    *It's probably because I've recently played it, but Gwen sensing Adwaita's aura reminds me of Fi's dowsing from Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword.


    *At last our 4 heroes find Adwaita...who is held captive and has lost his "magical look"! Someone won the rebellion alright!


    *Kevin grabs hold of the idiot ball by throwing the jewel that will alert the usurper of their presence even after hearing what it will do! Gwen follows Ignatius' advice and magically "cuffs" Adwaita.


    *Kevin claims teaming up with villains never work well...only for Ben to point out Kevin was once one of his greatest enemies...only for Kevin to play the "Freudian Excuse Card"...then for Ben to list of their rogue gallery and Kev mentioning how their team ups ended up. Big Crowning Moment of Funny!


    *Adwaita demonstrates why magical imprisoning a magic user isn't the wisest idea...


    *Bens turns in Eatal, who finally gets to do something useful! He seems like an Upchuck ripoff.


    * Poor Ignatius gets a broken arm! He assures the trio that he will heal in hours and suggests they follow Adwaita.


    *Looks like some "magic mining" is going on and Awaita demands to challenge the usurper! No, there's no way the usurper is...


    *...Yep, it is none other then Charmcaster, back to being evil! Seems quite odd giving how Where The Magic Happens went through a lot of effort to redeem her...


    *In any case, she effortlessly defeats Adwaita and is very much aware of the trio's presence!


    *Ah, so she is trying to bring her father, Spellbinder, back to life...and using extreme measures to it! So they went with the "Darth Vader angle" for her...


    *Kev asks Ben to toss him some metal, which he does so...which also hits the creature in the process! Priceless!


    *Ben goes Chromastone and touches the magic from the machine...


    *Oh my! Did they just...kill Ben...on screen? How unsettling!


    *Woah, did Kev just bite it too? It's hard to look at!


    *Gwen busts out her Anodite Form...only to die too! Good Lord!


    *Gwen makes a bargain with the (unseen) "Dark One" to bring her father back to life by sacrificing 600000 souls!


    *After hearing his voice in Where The Magic Happens, Spellbinder finally appears! Charmcaster definitely resembles her dad.


    *At long last, we finally learn Charmcaster's name and it's *drum roll*...Hope!


    *Spellbinder is shocked and saddened how far to the Dark Side his daughter has gone with her efforts. He truly is a good man by refusing to return with this terrible price paid. But before he leaves, he assures Charmcaster/Hope that he still loves her. Quite a tearjerker!


    *With her whole goal gone, Charmcaster is unsure of what she'll do now...


    *The trio discuss whether to show sympathy or not for the young spell caster. Kevin even notes how she and he are not so different...


    A great episode, definitely one of the best episodes in Ultimate Alien! It will certainly be great to see if the two spell casters will appear again!

    Edited on 02/11/2012 7:55pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of TimeHeroLink

    TimeHeroLink

    [13]Feb 11, 2012
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    RaizenYusuke wrote:
    It doesn't have to be pointless. Charmcaster really needs to take a hard look at her life now and see what she wants to be. Having her a gray character without a clear path makes her more interesting than if she just bece a good guy. Redemption is also Another theme a theme he writers dropped with Kevin and swept his villainous deeds under the rug. The writers probably won't go there since Charmcaster is a villain again in the next episode.


    I'm sorry, but given these writers' track record, I find it hard to believe they'll push for redemption if Charmcaster's going to be a villain again. Even if they wanted to, with Dwayne McDuffie gone and a new team taking over with "Omniverse", Charmcaster's storyline isn't likely to be resolved in a satisfactory way, if at all. Unless Charmcaster redeems herself in the next episode, I doubt it'll ever happen. A character with a perfectly good story and reason for redemption gets screwed over, while Kevin, who had none of that until Ultimate Alien's first season (well after his redemption), gets to stay good. The world is a stupid place sometimes.

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    LAT98

    [14]Feb 12, 2012
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    gdan95 wrote:
    Anybody got a link?



    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLViN8QJTQ&context=C33b2819ADOEgsToPDskKxDbk0gHjDeEUoGlCfBM_A


    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXkZYP_B7sA&context=C353212bADOEgsToPDskIkmp4uDrnAc4s65LlXAlZu

    Edited on 02/12/2012 6:12am
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  • Avatar of gdan95

    gdan95

    [15]Feb 12, 2012
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    I dunno whether or not I should sympathize with Charmcaster, er, Hope, here.
    On one hand, took years to spend what ended up being a few seconds with her father.
    On the other hand, six thousand souls for one is NOT a fair bargain.
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  • Avatar of TimeHeroLink

    TimeHeroLink

    [16]Feb 12, 2012
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    ^ I sympathize with her, because I think the writing for this episode screwed her over! Cry


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    pokemonmonmon

    [17]Feb 12, 2012
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    now that charmcaster literally has NOTHING to losei think that empty void will drive her insane and make her an even worse villain. the only way for ben and co to win is if they dont fight her in her own territory

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    pokemonmonmon

    [18]Feb 12, 2012
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    TimeHeroLink wrote:


    I agree with Srebak. Turning Charmcaster back to the dark side was pointless. It undoes her development from "Where the Magic Happens" and all it does is dig a ditch as to how to use the character now. She can't go back to the villain she was before since they've made her so tragic, but now that she temporarily killed the heroes (among 600,000 others!), turning good again would be jarring. It pisses me off that Kevin was ALOT worse than Charmcaster wasin the original show, yet he gets to stay consistently on the good side, while Charmcaster is maderidiculously more evilin order to keep her off of it.


    So much of this episode did not gel with how Charmcaster was portrayed in "Where the Magic Happens". Back then, she clearly had a genuine desire to free her people, but now she enslaves and kills them. Back then, she said she didn't want Gwen dead anymore and grew more fond of her,but now she kills her andtreats her like dirt again. Back then, shemissed her father, but it was never indicated that ressurecting him was her life's ambition.....and if she realized that he wouldn't want her to commit suicide, shouldn't she have realized he wouldn't want her to commit mass murder!?


    Also....Hex LOVES his niece? Since WHEN? He ordered her around, insulted her, and threatened her on a regular basis! That's not love, that's flat-out abuse!


    This episode was stupid. 1 whole year of waiting for theCharmcaster-Ledgerdomain plotline to be resolved and THIS is what we get!? Then again,"Ultimate Alien" has suckedever since "Absolute Power" ended on the stupidest note possible, so why am I surprised?


    And next week, Charmcaster and Darkstar team up. Oh, joy...........-_-




    and i agree with this 100% one thing i really dont/didnt like about alien force and ultimate alien is all the retcon. i really hate how everyone who has a special power is labelled alien and how they took away that factor that added to gwens resourcefulness from studied magician to "inexperienced alien" i really hope the writing improves. the only thing they did right was giving it a good plot but they couldve done it with other characters

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    syrusfan

    [19]Feb 13, 2012
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    Overall it wasn't bad. I was not 100% comfortable with the angle they went with Charmcaster to begin with, so I was not as mixed when she turned evil again, but it still feels very inconsistent. She gets props for killing the crew, but it is retconed anyway.

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    TimeHeroLink

    [20]Feb 13, 2012
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    .......Well, I'm feeling much better now.


    Apparently, the credits to this episode reveal that Diagon was the Old One Charmcaster was dealing with. Diagon, who is confirmed to be the main villain of Ultimate Alien's finale. It's more likely now that Charmcaster will be joining in the fight to redeem herself. Her father was ashamed of her for making the deal with Diagon....what better way for her to redeem herself to his spirit than to help defeat Diagon?


    This episode was still badly written, IMO, but now there's a high chance for it to be made up for.

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