Black. White. Forums

FX (ended 2006)

Bruno's video and Bruno in general

  • Avatar of Ellbee

    Ellbee

    [1]Mar 30, 2006
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    On last night's show (Hour 4), what Bruno really wanted by showing that silly video was to start a fight. Thankfully, The Sparks' knew that before it even started playing and took the high road. Bruno's wife and daughter were horrified and told him as much. Kudos to them! It's not that Bruno doesn't have the right to say what he feels, but the way he chooses to say it is always antagonistic, insulting and unnecessarily belittling. Who would listen to a man who did that every time he opened his mouth?

    Even though Bruno is what I call a "new age racist" (won't hang you, but won't hire you either), that's not his biggest problem. Bruno doesn't want to "get it". Getting it would mean that he would have to face the reality of the world he has denied living in for so long and how his attitude and actions may have contributed to making it a more difficult place for those of us who aren't lucky enough to be like him.

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    4gottn1

    [2]Mar 30, 2006
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    I totally agree with Mrs. Sparks. Regardless of what he was trying to convey, that was the most embarassing video I ever saw and if I was the daughter I would have left the room due to embarassment. I think the Sparks were so surprised that one person could be that stupid and ignorant that it obviously wasn't even worth arguing about. In other words he's beyond saving. What kind of dad would do that. I would punch my Dad in the face if he ever made some stupid video trying to rap. Old white guys don't rap...just like young black guys don't sing country, well actually there is that one rapping cowboy but he doesn't count because he has mental issues
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [3]Mar 30, 2006
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    It's interesting that both previous threads seemed to have a vast knowledge of Bruno's life and all the insinuated privileges that he surely has.

    Is it possible that Bruno was attempting to look as silly as he sees most rap artists as being? His message seemed no more offensive than the messages that hip hop sends to black
    youth.

    With the image that many African Americans portray and the blame that the rest of America gets for the problems that exist within that community, can you think of a legitimate reason that Bruno might not hire a young black individual?

    Has a black leader ever asked why other ethnic groups have a negative view of the black community? Have you noticed that blacks consistently demand that other ethnic groups look inside themselves for an answer to racism, yet demand they accept only the black perspective on the issue?

    The word "racism" has lost its meaning to many because it has been hi-jacked to mean that only whites can be racists.That negates any personal reponsibility that the black community has for solving its own problems, which in turn, becomes a haven for those who choose to make excuses.

    If a dialog is really what you really want, then you might consider using the word "racist" so often and so carelessly. Look instead at what part you and your community play in negative racial stereotypes and perceptions. And please, don't assume you know what race I'm from. Some may have had experiences similar to yours, but have come to different conclusions about racial fault and responsibility than you.
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  • Avatar of Ellbee

    Ellbee

    [4]Mar 30, 2006
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    GGordonKitty wrote:
    It's interesting that both previous threads seemed to have a vast knowledge of Bruno's life and all the insinuated privileges that he surely has.

    Is it possible that Bruno was attempting to look as silly as he sees most rap artists as being? His message seemed no more offensive than the messages that hip hop sends to black
    youth.

    With the image that many African Americans portray and the blame that the rest of America gets for the problems that exist within that community, can you think of a legitimate reason that Bruno might not hire a young black individual?

    Has a black leader ever asked why other ethnic groups have a negative view of the black community? Have you noticed that blacks consistently demand that other ethnic groups look inside themselves for an answer to racism, yet demand they accept only the black perspective on the issue?

    The word "racism" has lost its meaning to many because it has been hi-jacked to mean that only whites can be racists.That negates any personal reponsibility that the black community has for solving its own problems, which in turn, becomes a haven for those who choose to make excuses.

    If a dialog is really what you really want, then you might consider using the word "racist" so often and so carelessly. Look instead at what part you and your community play in negative racial stereotypes and perceptions. And please, don't assume you know what race I'm from. Some may have had experiences similar to yours, but have come to different conclusions about racial fault and responsibility than you.


    I don't think I made any insinuations about Bruno having any privileges - the only one he seems to have is that he's a member of the majority race in this country. And I do believe he was attempting to look silly in the video(mission accomplished) but his message would have been more enlightening had he not stated it in such a hateful and nasty manner. Just like Bruno tunes out when Brian becomes confrontational, aggressive and condescending, EVERYONE tuned out Bruno's video because he was being a jerk. His portrayal had no constructive message at all.

    Regarding rappers and their message to BLACK youth, there are millions of white kids running around with baggy pants & big jewelry idolizing Jay-Z and Ludacris too ya know. That's what teenagers do - they follow trends until they grow up and think for themselves. There are many positive black rappers (Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, D'Angelo, Maxwell), none of whom glorify violence, drugs or anything negative. Just an interesting note - one of the highest paid and most recognized rappers today is Eminem - a 32 year old white guy.

    Why not shake your finger at all those white rock bands that glorify drugs and alcohol and degrade women in their videos, or smash up hotel rooms and die of heroin overdoses? What message do they send to white youth? Rappers are part of the same entertainment industry as rock stars so please don't go there. Idiots come in all colors.

    As for the black leaders asking other ethnic groups why they have a negative view of the black community, that's just silly. How about whites leaders asking other ethnic groups whey they have a negative view of them? Believe it or not, many minorities don't necessarily trust white people, not just blacks. Does that mean their distrust is justified?

    And finally, I don't know any blacks that blame society or the white man for all of their problems. They know which ones they create and which ones they don't. All they want is acknowledgement from whites that racism continues to exist - and for them to reject it and stamp it out wherever they find it. That's all.
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  • Avatar of bcandy4life

    bcandy4life

    [5]Mar 31, 2006
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    It doesn't matter what race you are from. That is bull crap. The only thing that is different from the African American population and everyone else is that the African American population was kidnapped, rapped, beaten and killed to do what the Europeans wanted us to do. Namely come over here and take care of business. Yes some of them were nice to their slaves and some where not. Some rapped their slaves and some did not. So is it safe to generalize the entire population of Europeans as being nasty rapist to their slaves?

    You know you can't really understand anything you have never been through or had to deal with 100%. And everyone chooses to deal things the best way they can. Because a man cheated on his wife does that mean he will do it again but the majority of them do? Because you lie on your taxes does that make you a liar does it make everyone a suspect of that from the same zip code, age group, sex or religion?

    People are entitled to their own opinions and in order for you to fully understand something you would have to want to. I don't like country music, why because I listened to it and didn't. Case in point I tried, I stopped and listen and didn't opinion made. Should I have listened to someone else? Should I have listen to different years of it? I like R&B why because it helps me to relax. Does that make me part of the population that discriminates each other?

    Since it seems like you are a voter for Bruno and think he has a right to be a shame to society. Let me tell you what. I agree that he said he was a snake, so because he acts like one I shouldn't have been surprised. But to witness something and down play the effects means that you really don't care. You should have stayed the heck home then. Why try to be apart of something to TRY to understand something if you are going to keep your same feelings and EXCUSES based on a situation you have previously had nothing to do with.

    Have you ever been pulled over for nothing? Ask any black man in America. How many times have a business had a sign in the window and you ask for an application and they didn't have one? HOw many shoes stores have you been to that has helped you put your shoes on while considering to buy them? How many people nearly run across the street because you are coming in their direction? Where you surprised when that happened to the black dad?

    Have you watched the movie crash? Could you relate to any of the characters portrayed in the movie? Have you ever been a victim of a crime. Did you know that most crimes in the neighborhoods whites were by whites, and in black communities were by blacks. So why such criticism? Do you think that all of one is the same as the other? SO if you had a bag of apples and a few were rotten would they all be rotten?
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [6]Mar 31, 2006
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    [QUOTE="bcandy4life"]It doesn't matter what race you are from. That is bull crap. The only thing that is different from the African American population and everyone else is that the African American population was kidnapped, rapped, beaten and killed to do what the Europeans wanted us to do."

    There are very few ethnic groups on earth that can not trace their bloodline back to slavery at some point in history. Blacks are no more entitled to wallow in self-pity because of racism than any other ethnic group. At the very least, no forward motion will occur in the African American community if that continues to be the battle cry.


    "You know you can't really understand anything you have never been through or had to deal with 100%."

    This would indicate that neither yourself or anyone else alive today knows what it is to be a slave. It does mean however, that you reside in the most prosperous country in the world because of it. I am not suggesting that slavery was a good thing for any ethnic group who has endured it at any point in history. I am suggesting however, that those who cling to the idea that slavery has affected them personally could have easily been born and raised in Africa without it. That country has yet to build a civilization in which any human being has prospered.

    White Europeans did not ride their horses through the plains and jungles of Africa kidnapping the people there. Black tribal leaders, in their greed, bartered and sold their own people into slavery. By the standards of that day, those tribal leaders as well as the purchasers of slaves, all seem to see blacks on that continent as less than human. If blame is assigned to white Europeans for the slave trade, why is the same degree of fault not placed with the tribal leaders of that time or any other ethnic group that purchased slaves 200 years ago? These facts are not discussed because of its politically incorrect nature. Another reason that its left out of left wing college lectures is that blame could not be as easily placed in one place. Thereby the rationale behind the problems within the black community would necessarily have to be solved within that community.


    "Have you ever been pulled over for nothing? Ask any black man in America."

    A black individual may in fact be pulled over for no reason. However, since blacks demand that other races understand their plight and their history, then try to understand the plight and history of the officer in question.

    70% of all arrests in the US are black males under the age of 27. Noone within the black community can deny that there is a disrespect for the law and therefore a higher crime rate within that community. Young black males take some degree of pride in having been to jail in the first place. Along with that, there is a feeling in the young black community that doing well in school, being articulate and going to college are all associated with acting "white". Considering these facts regarding young black males, would you be any less apt to suspect that your next arrest would be that of a young black male?

    There are serious problems within the black community. It is not the responsibility of white society, or any other ethnic group, to solve those problems. If these simple facts continue to be denied, the African American community will continue on the same blame oriented path that it now finds itself on. Change comes from within. Change it.


    Edited on 03/31/2006 1:22pm
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  • Avatar of ItAintEazy

    ItAintEazy

    [7]Apr 1, 2006
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    GGordonKitty wrote:

    There are very few ethnic groups on earth that can not trace their bloodline back to slavery at some point in history. Blacks are no more entitled to wallow in self-pity because of racism than any other ethnic group. At the very least, no forward motion will occur in the African American community if that continues to be the battle cry.


    Name the plantation societies in history that was created in the scope that was done in the New World, which was so segregated by race.

    That's what I thought. If whites like to remember their heritage like the American Revolution or the Civil War, blacks have the same right to their heritage as well.

    :
    This would indicate that neither yourself or anyone else alive today knows what it is to be a slave. It does mean however, that you reside in the most prosperous country in the world because of it. I am not suggesting that slavery was a good thing for any ethnic group who has endured it at any point in history. I am suggesting however, that those who cling to the idea that slavery has affected them personally could have easily been born and raised in Africa without it. That country has yet to build a civilization in which any human being has prospered.


    More claptrap. Pick up a book about ancient African civilizations like Nubia, Mali or Songhai before making such ignorant statements again. And once again such solipsism denies the fact that blacks are more American than the Pilgrims, so why compare blacks to voluntary immigrants?

    :
    White Europeans did not ride their horses through the plains and jungles of Africa kidnapping the people there. Black tribal leaders, in their greed, bartered and sold their own people into slavery. By the standards of that day, those tribal leaders as well as the purchasers of slaves, all seem to see blacks on that continent as less than human.


    So you are saying that blacks are responsible for enslaving themselves?


    :
    70% of all arrests in the US are black males under the age of 27. Noone within the black community can deny that there is a disrespect for the law and therefore a higher crime rate within that community. Young black males take some degree of pride in having been to jail in the first place. Along with that, there is a feeling in the young black community that doing well in school, being articulate and going to college are all associated with acting "white". Considering these facts regarding young black males, would you be any less apt to suspect that your next arrest would be that of a young black male?


    Actually, 70 percent of all arrests in this country are white my Aryan brother, but don't let that get in the way of your BS justification for racial profiling.

    :
    There are serious problems within the black community. It is not the responsibility of white society, or any other ethnic group, to solve those problems. If these simple facts continue to be denied, the African American community will continue on the same blame oriented path that it now finds itself on. Change comes from within. Change it.


    If there are problems in the black community, why can't it be an AMERICAN problem.

    Because people like you can't see beyond race. Change it. It comes from within.
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  • Avatar of ItAintEazy

    ItAintEazy

    [8]Apr 1, 2006
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    link to the crime stats:

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/persons_arrested/index.html
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [9]Apr 1, 2006
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    ItAintEazy:

    I see you would prefer to break slavery down into Southern Plantation type situations. That's quite a narrow view of slavery given the nature and history, not to mention the wide range of ethnic groups who have been enslaved. I have included just a few paragraphs to illustrate that point. Most history books point this out as well. You can find them on the internet or in your local bookstore.

    Maybe I should have been more specific in my reference to arrests. Given the small number of blacks relative to the total population, there are a disproportionate number of arrests compared to other ethnic groups which constitute a majority population. In other words, there is more crime within the black community than within other ethnic settings. Especially violent offenses and arrests made relating to drugs. Most people within that community know this.

    Apparently, it would be difficult for you to assume that an individual who made these points could be any other race than Caucasian. I know what it means to be a minority among the majority. Thusly, I know there is some amount of discomfort associated with that situation. I also have seen, first hand, that focusing on that narrow view while residing in the most prosperous nation on earth will necessarily hold an individual, or group, in a self-induced state of stagnation.

    There really aren't any excuses left for the African American community not to have moved past events that occurred well over 150 years ago.

    In response to your question about whether Africans enslaved themselves or not, I don't think any individual within an ethnic group has ever chosen slavery for himself. My point was that no focus has ever been given to the fact that tribal leaders, who were of course black, sold their own people into slavery. It is worth notation, that only white Americans have been held accountable for slavery within the African American community. Perhaps current African leaders and those who have descended from those tribal leaders should be constantly reminded of their past sins as well.

    Americans have tried since the 1960's to solve problems FOR the African American community by sending tax payer money into that community. It seems now, that that community sees these government programs as an entitlement rather than assistance. Laws have been passed that have attempted to level the playing field for blacks, but are now viewed as a vehicle for guaranteed outcome.

    Problems within the black community is certainly an American problem. However, it is evident that there is a great divide between blacks and other ethnic groups within this nation. I think that choice was made by the black community itself. As long as blacks continue to demand that other races understand their plight and seek acknowledgment for perceived injustices, yet refuse to do the same, no forward momentum will occur relative to the race issue.



    "Although it is commonly held that slavery was rare among primitive pastoral peoples and that it appeared in full form only with the development of an agricultural economy, there are numerous instances that contradict this belief. Domestic slavery and sometimes concubine slavery appeared among the nomadic Arabs, among Native Americans primarily devoted to hunting, and among the seafaring Vikings. Some ascribe the beginnings of slavery to war and the consequent subjection of one group by another. Slavery as a result of debt, however, existed in very early times, and some African peoples have had the custom of putting up wives and children as hostages for an obligation; if the obligation was unfulfilled, the hostages became permanent slaves.

    Slavery in the Ancient World
    The institution of slavery extends back beyond recorded history. References to it appear in the ancient Babylonian code of Hammurabi. Its form and nature varied greatly in ancient society. It seems to have been common in the Tigris-Euphrates civilizations and in ancient Persia. In ancient Egypt slave labor was used in building temples and pyramids. The institution was familiar to the ancient Hebrews, according to passages in the Bible. ..."

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  • Avatar of ItAintEazy

    ItAintEazy

    [10]Apr 1, 2006
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    GGordonKitty wrote:
    ItAintEazy:

    I see you would prefer to break slavery down into Southern Plantation type situations. That's quite a narrow view of slavery given the nature and history, not to mention the wide range of ethnic groups who have been enslaved. I have included just a few paragraphs to illustrate that point. Most history books point this out as well. You can find them on the internet or in your local bookstore.


    And what you are attempting to do is to dilute the American experience with slavery with other types of slavery that bore little relation to what happened in this country. Without slavery, this country wouldn't be what it is today since almost 60 percent of the exports in 1860 were cotton.

    :
    Maybe I should have been more specific in my reference to arrests. Given the small number of blacks relative to the total population, there are a disproportionate number of arrests compared to other ethnic groups which constitute a majority population. In other words, there is more crime within the black community than within other ethnic settings. Especially violent offenses and arrests made relating to drugs. Most people within that community know this.


    But you weren't you went off half cocked with an entirely phony statistic designed to villanize black people. And considering the fact that more blacks that are poor and living in poor neighborhoods than there are poor whites living in poor neighborhoods, if anything blacks should be committing more crimes.

    :
    Apparently, it would be difficult for you to assume that an individual who made these points could be any other race than Caucasian. I know what it means to be a minority among the majority. Thusly, I know there is some amount of discomfort associated with that situation. I also have seen, first hand, that focusing on that narrow view while residing in the most prosperous nation on earth will necessarily hold an individual, or group, in a self-induced state of stagnation.


    Actually not, since apparently you need that type of invidious disdain for black people in order to really fit into the larger society. That's why New Orleans had a Chinese sheriff for a long time who was open and proud of his policy of profiling black people that he even went on the Tonight Show to advertise his bigotry. How else can a Chinese person become a sherriff in that part of the country?

    :
    There really aren't any excuses left for the African American community not to have moved past events that occurred well over 150 years ago.


    You're not going to tell a Jew to "move past" the Holocaust, so it's bemusing that you are telling blacks to move past slavery and the codified racism that was only abolished in recent decades. Yeah, I guess blacks should start pulling themselves from the bootstraps, except that it's pretty difficult when blacks who don't have felonies are less likely to get jobs than white felons.

    :
    In response to your question about whether Africans enslaved themselves or not, I don't think any individual within an ethnic group has ever chosen slavery for himself. My point was that no focus has ever been given to the fact that tribal leaders, who were of course black, sold their own people into slavery. It is worth notation, that only white Americans have been held accountable for slavery within the African American community. Perhaps current African leaders and those who have descended from those tribal leaders should be constantly reminded of their past sins as well.


    There you go again. Blacks are still "African" even to this day, not Americans who were wronged.

    :
    Americans have tried since the 1960's to solve problems FOR the African American community by sending tax payer money into that community. It seems now, that that community sees these government programs as an entitlement rather than assistance. Laws have been passed that have attempted to level the playing field for blacks, but are now viewed as a vehicle for guaranteed outcome.


    So the government was as committed to solving the problem of the black community like how it created the white middle class immediately after World War II with their home loans, educational loans and plum jobs reserved for whites? Good luck in selling that.

    :
    Problems within the black community is certainly an American problem. However, it is evident that there is a great divide between blacks and other ethnic groups within this nation. I think that choice was made by the black community itself. As long as blacks continue to demand that other races understand their plight and seek acknowledgment for perceived injustices, yet refuse to do the same, no forward momentum will occur relative to the race issue.


    You can either try to understand the experience of blacks because it's the right thing to do, or you can do it expecting some kind of quid pro quo like some total douche. You can either do it FOR blacks expecting them to lick your feet in return, or you can do it for yourself and the larger society that desperately needs an attitude change. It's your call.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [11]Apr 1, 2006
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    ItAintEazy:

    Most of us on this message board have exchanged ideas and communicated in civil tones. You have chosen to do anything but that. I will respond briefly and in-kind.

    I don't personally care whether you move on as an individual or continue to grovel in events that took place over 150 years ago. Black tribal leaders could have opted not to sell their own people into slavery. Europeans could have said, "no thanks" when faced with the option of purchasing said slaves. Of course if this had happened, you would likely still be living on the most backward continent in the world. Sitting in a field of dirt, flies circling your head, and your children being rented out to Christian Children's Network in order obtain food. Your life expectancy would be 1/2 of what is is now and your prayers would go out to God for white Europeans to send more money to save you from the AIDS epidemic so prevalent in the country that you never left.

    The Jewish people, that you apparently know nothing about, are still affected by the holocaust but have not used it as an excuse to remain stagnant and angry as you have chosen to be.

    If your communications on this message board are anything remotely similar to the communication style you use in your day-to-day life, you are as ineffective there as you are in here. Your disdain for whites is obvious. If you'll read other threads on this message board, you have managed to prove our points about certain black attitudes better than we could have.

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    4gottn1

    [12]Apr 1, 2006
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    Are you a proffessor or something? You seem too smart for these forums. You have a lot of good things to say but you're a little long winded. Try to sum it up a little more so average people can understand your point because you have a lot of good points.
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    ItAintEazy

    [13]Apr 3, 2006
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    GGordanKitty:

    You were the one who said black AMERICANS should thank slavery from saving them from that hellhole you call Africa, and you were the one who made up that crime statistic just to justify the demonization of blacks. If those types of affronts is what constitutes your idea of "civility" then you have no right to complain.

    Forget the Holocaust, Jewish people haven't forgotten or "moved on" from their slavery in Egypt. And as far as I know they are still active in stemming and reversing anti-Semitism. Should they be heaped scorn for that?

    And I am not anti-white, I'm anti-bigot. If you can't separate the two then we obviously have a huge problem on our hands.
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    vernonsr2004

    [14]Apr 3, 2006
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    That is very ignorant, not all of Africa is what you see on television. That is a racist comment in general, no matter how bad Africa may seem, it beats getting whipped with a whip, shackled from head to toe, and eating hot gritts with bare hands.
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    GGordonKitty

    [15]Apr 4, 2006
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    Have any of you ever been to Afica? Have you ever known anyone personally who's been there? I have and I can tell you the following:

    1) The most advanced areas of Africa are more backward than the worst "slums" in the U.S. If you feel your lot in life is unbearable here, I suggest you spend a year on the continent of your heritage.

    2) Many African natives have very little use for American blacks. They see the missed opportunities here from afar and are aware of the constant complaining of some in the African American community. Most would gladly switch places with any American black.

    Many of us, who can trace our ancestry back to slavery, choose to focus on the fact that WE ARE HERE. Slavery was bad, but we are here. Like it or hate it, because of the misery that some of our ancestors endured, we have opportunities that they could never have imagined.

    It is psychological suicide to focus on events that occured over a century ago. While other ethnic groups have made advances in science, medicine, the arts, architecture, and more, many blacks have chosen to remain stagnate and continually complain about how bad they have it. Or that they are a "minority" and feel "uncomfortable" within that context. What possible forward momentum can the black community gain if that continues to be the mindset?

    And to whom it may concern: The black crime percentage that I quoted was accurate within the context that I had intended. I may not have been as specific as I should have, but it was not an attempt to place blacks in a negative light. The black community has managed to do that without assistance .That includes assistance from blacks who have attempted to move forward and are equally tired of hearing the same old Jesse Jackson, "I'm a victim, give me something" political blabber from its own culture. A culture that never misses the chance to endlessly use like terms racist, bigot, or ignorant. What better way to keep from solving ones own problems? What better way to remain as one has always been?
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    minou_chere

    [16]Apr 10, 2006
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    ItAintEazy wrote:
    Forget the Holocaust, Jewish people haven't forgotten or "moved on" from their slavery in Egypt. And as far as I know they are still active in stemming and reversing anti-Semitism. Should they be heaped scorn for that?

    And I am not anti-white, I'm anti-bigot. If you can't separate the two then we obviously have a huge problem on our hands.


    I think what GGordonKitty was trying to say to you was that Jewish people aren't using the holocaust or their past slavery for that matter as a method for keeping their culture from moving beyond that time. Of course they remember the history of their culture, they remember the trials and tribulations, but rather than using it as an excuse they've used it as inspiration to make their lives better today.

    No one on this message board has said that black Americans shouldn't hold on to their history or make the effort to prevent future racism, however, it does seem to be a common sentiment that it's time to quit using it as an excuse for where a large percentage of the black community are today.

    In any struggle against adversity the fighters of that struggle have to change with the times, they have to adapt to find new ways to further their cause. It seems that a large majority of the black community, including most of the outspoken leaders are still in the same mindset as the 50's civil rights activists. Those activists had to stand up, they had to physically fight for change, but the times are different, the struggles aren't so openly visible, it's time to adapt and change the strategy. The black leaders should be turning towards their own people, saying "ok, you've got the chance, let's prove we're equal rather than just saying it", they should be teaching members of the black community that any job is a good job, work your way up, they should be instilling a disdain of welfare and a desire to make it on your own. They should be reinforcing positive black stereotypes and rallying against the negative ones.

    I think what we're seeing now among other Americans (of all races) is the beginning of disdain for the black community. People who once would've stood and fought for the black community are starting to think they don't deserve the help. They're also starting to wonder when they will stop blaming everyone else and start accepting some of the blame themselves. There is always a point in any struggle where people have to stop expecting help and learn how to make it on their own.

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  • Avatar of JLUVANIME

    JLUVANIME

    [17]Apr 15, 2006
    • member since: 03/22/06
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 163
    It's not about the fact that SOME of Africa is harsh, it's the whole idea of someone taking our race away from our homeland, bringing us to their country, selling us, and making us do their bidding. It's the fact that they treated the blacks like property that they could just use to their will. It's the fact that when the slaves were freed, the slave owners still held grudges, forcing us to obey unfair laws and endure cruel discrimination. It's the fact that generations after generations of children of slave owners picked up that same grudge that their parents had and THEY become racist against blacks. It's the fact that we had to fight for many years to earn simple rights as voting, sharing restrooms, and reading, rights that others had enjoyed for hundreds of years without a drop of blood shed. That's why people are still sore about racism today.
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    minou_chere

    [18]Apr 18, 2006
    • member since: 09/15/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 28
    JLUVANIME wrote:
    It's not about the fact that SOME of Africa is harsh, it's the whole idea of someone taking our race away from our homeland, bringing us to their country, selling us, and making us do their bidding. It's the fact that they treated the blacks like property that they could just use to their will. It's the fact that when the slaves were freed, the slave owners still held grudges, forcing us to obey unfair laws and endure cruel discrimination. It's the fact that generations after generations of children of slave owners picked up that same grudge that their parents had and THEY become racist against blacks. It's the fact that we had to fight for many years to earn simple rights as voting, sharing restrooms, and reading, rights that others had enjoyed for hundreds of years without a drop of blood shed. That's why people are still sore about racism today.


    Women were property for thousands of years, they were sold from father to husband and had no legal rights of their own in most countries until this century (some 50 years after slavery ended). Even after having the right to vote they were still seen as less than men until the 60's, although there were some advances made during WWII. Most husbands were allowed to physically beat their wives as a method for controlling the "feeble female spirit". They were expected to submit to their husbands and have no say in any aspect of their lives other than the trivial and even that could be dictated by their fathers or husbands. Obviously, sometimes they had a good life, someone who was understanding (just like not all slave owners beat their slaves) and sometimes they were not, regardless their husband was in control. Today, women still earn on average 25 cents less per hour for doing the same job as a man.

    If any of this sounds familiar it's because it's the same argument that most black people use for their resentment of whites. For just a second lets imagine that women decided they wanted to hold all men responsible for the thoughts and practices of those men in the past who were guilty of these things(by the way, there was much propoganda in the guise of science to prove that women were not as capable as men, just like the so called science that "proved" that black people were a seperate species that should be thought of as essentially a domestic animal), it sounds a little silly doesn't it. Why should men today be held responsible for the actions of their grandfathers, etc? As long as they aren't guilty of doing the same things, why should they be made to suffer for something someone else did?

    It's the same thing for blacks, slavery ended over 150 years ago, civil rights were granted almost 40 years ago, it's not a good excuse anymore. Why not take the rights you've won and use it to prove the past wrong, prove that there isn't any difference? Because as long as the past is highlighted those thought processes are going to stay active, people are going to continue to look at a black man and see color rather than just a man. Essentially, by the attitude of being "sore about racism" you're doing your part to keep it alive and well.
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  • Avatar of JLUVANIME

    JLUVANIME

    [19]Apr 19, 2006
    • member since: 03/22/06
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 163
    Listen, it's not about the slavery thing, it's mostly about the racism thing. You know the aftermath of slavery.
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    minou_chere

    [20]Apr 19, 2006
    • member since: 09/15/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 28
    JLUVANIME wrote:
    Listen, it's not about the slavery thing, it's mostly about the racism thing. You know the aftermath of slavery.


    I'll ignore the fact that you spent two paragraphs saying it was about slavery, that was why there is such anger towards whites. My response doesn't say it's about slavery either, it's just trying to make you aware that other groups have been victims of the same injustices (if not even worse ones) as black people, women still aren't earning the same as men today, some men still don't take women seriously. The difference is you don't see women sitting around complaining about it, they're graduating high school and going to college in higher numbers than ever, they're beginning to gain control of companies and starting groups to counsel young girls to get them to succeed.

    There isn't anyone in the world who can't claim to be a part of some group that suffers from bigotry; whether it's racism, sexism, religious intolerance, whatever, there's always someone who is going to hate you just because you are who you are.

    The question is how to overcome it, and I think most groups have realized that it's best to focus on the positive aspects of their group, to downplay the negative. The notable exception being the black community who continue to bring up past injustices like they happened to them this morning, like every white person is guilty of racism, like every white person is a direct descendent of a slave owner or trader and still has those ideals and should be punished for them. As long as the black community continues to hold anger towards whites that anger will continue to be returned, it's not very easy to sympathize with someone who hates you for something you didn't do.

    That being said, I do realize that there is still racism, but how do you ever get past that when even you use the color of your skin to justify hate and anger towards another person just because of the color of their skin, you do know what racism is don't you?
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