Black. White. Forums

FX (ended 2006)

Nicolas underachiever, that's racism in itself..

  • Avatar of ali082

    ali082

    [1]Mar 23, 2006
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    Brian tell your wife that both of you need to concentrate more on Nicolas, he is headed for 'jail' without an education. He is representing 'dumbness' and proud of it attitude. Nicolas is embarassing to the Young African American Men today.
    Thank God he doesn't represent all 'african american' young men.
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  • Avatar of ali082

    ali082

    [2]Mar 23, 2006
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    Those white people just don't get it (racism)...or is it that their too dumb to understand the difference...
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  • Avatar of xennaq

    xennaq

    [3]Mar 23, 2006
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    He really is an embarrassment. Someone should of took a picture of him doing nothing.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [4]Mar 23, 2006
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    Nicolas has the same mentality of those in New Orleans who refused to take responsibility for themselves and leave before the storm despite mandatory evacuations.

    It was the "dumb" white people who risked their lives to rescue them afterwards. I guess Nicolas will have the same expectations his future. Especially if continues to have his parents force their negative views about race on him.
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  • Avatar of Warnersisluver

    Warnersisluver

    [5]Mar 25, 2006
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    You should get the facts straight before you make statments about New Orleans and People in general. Yes it is true alot of people choose to stay behind but if you noticed most of the people who were stuck there in New orleans were Poor blacks who couldent afford to leave most did not have cars bush never sent buses for the people who couldent migrate the people who run the bus stations had already left the state and most of those people who died were black and white ELDERLY people who were left in there nursing homes waiting for help that never came.Surely you don't exspect old people with no family to take care of them selve thats why they were in the homes to begian with. Not everyone had money to leave the state and go to hotels.And you said they werent "taking responsibility". Suppose they did claim responsability how will that help fix New orleans to it's former state?the thats the president and goverments job to help them.

    Really you have your opininon but it dosent make much since.
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    Warnersisluver

    [6]Mar 25, 2006
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    NOW,about nick

    He is a teenage boy and typically teen males have one track minds and they only see what the want or what they think they need. In nicks case he keeps saying "i don't care about race". He thinks that race dosent have any effect on his life period. I think that is a wrong preeception. And event though his parents ar over the top with there views on racisim i think they are doing the right thing in teaching him about it and trying to get him to acknoledge it because he needs to know.

    Racism can effect everything you exsperence even if it's on a very low level.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [7]Mar 25, 2006
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    The fact that the people in New Orleans who didn't leave were poor is a tired excuse, whatever their race. When an entire generation of people rely on the government for sustainance, they will continue to be poor. They will continue to be without cars or even the knowledge that their lives could have been more than just existing.

    I don't think it's necessarily they're fault, but the government itself for handing out money to gain votes. This has been going on since the 1960's and will not stop until those who claim that it's the government's resposibility to take care of them look to themselves and become self reliant.

    The government was never intended to assume responsibility for an individual's income or the outcome of that person's life. That is called communism or socialism. It does not work because it takes away the incentive a person has to succeed. If everyone was promised the same mediocre outcome, nobody tries anymore. Nicolas seems to be one who is headed down that same "somebody take care of me" road.

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  • Avatar of Warnersisluver

    Warnersisluver

    [8]Mar 26, 2006
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    your talking about income being the an excuse for what?

    You say the entire generation relys on government assistants that is a stereotype and racist comment in it's self. why don't you just say what you really mean all those black people in New Orleans are poor and on welfare because they don't wish to better them selves is that what your saying.you say the goverment give them money to live off of than why didn't they have enough to leave the state.these people arent getting annual lottery money.Just scrap checks.

    even if that were true how does that change the fact. The people where still caught in katrina and needed help after the storm.No one was more rich or more poor during the after math EVERYONE was waiting for help but who do you think is still waiting that would be poor black people. It is not the point that the blacks made them selves stay poor or let the poverty continue it is the point that they were that way and that may have cause them to need goverment assistance but the point is the government failed to do it's job.

    It is constantly stipulated that the government was created for the people by the people but what was it created for now when the people can't use it and rely on it when there.

    Staying there in New Orleans and allowing their selves to suffer was not the wish of anyone in New orleans.So if the blacks had away out i'm sure they would have left poor,no car or what dosent matter.

    I have to say that everytime i see blacks on tv they are in a situation where they are complaining that "the man" i.e whites mainly in govenment are trying to keep them down. This is the same with Katrina victims and i get tired of hearing it but who is to say they arent right, when no one wants to help a bunch of black people you start to see what they mean.

    forget the fact they are poor or black. to the point when people are victimized we as human beings are suppose to want to help them. So why arent they being helped ny the government who was created "FOR THE POEPLE"suppositly.
    Edited on 03/26/2006 4:35pm
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [9]Mar 26, 2006
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    I realize this message board is supposed to be about the show, but I have to make one more attempt at this.

    The government was not designed nor was it intended to take care of people or guarantee a particular outcome for any individual. Especially not the guarantees that some in this nation have come to expect.

    If you insist on blaming government anyway, make sure you understand how each level of government works. Did you know that Mayor Nagin of New Orleans brought buses in but didn't use them to evacuate people before the storm? Governor Blanco (Louisiana) refused The Federal Government's assistance up until 5 days after the storm?

    Both Nagin and Blanco are Democrats. The same party that blacks have overwhelmingly voted into power since the 1960's?

    Having said all of this and knowing the reponse will be the same i.e."You're a racist because you're not saying what everyone is supposed to say",do not assume you know what race I'm from. That is a form of racism that no one talks much about. I know what "poor" is and why people fall into that category. I also know what it takes to get out of it.
    That does not include protesting that the government has not done enough for you and your group. It is making a choice to be independent of the government by having them do less for you. You will not become self-reliant as long as you expect the government take care of you financially or otherwise.

    This attitude about self-reliance is becoming extinct. Most government dependent people will have their wishes come true in the ten to twenty years. The government will become more powerful and people will become less in control of their destinys because of that dependence. Until there are fewer tax payers than tax money takers, anyway.

    Just read a little history about Russia, among others, and ask yourself if that's what you really want for yourself or your kids. If not, then join a protest to get government out of your life instead of more government into it. If the residents of New Orleans had done that years ago, they my have had the means to have escaped. Just like anybody else who didn't look to the government as a child looks to a father. Just like Nicolas in ten years.
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  • Avatar of Warnersisluver

    Warnersisluver

    [10]Mar 26, 2006
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    I did state you were racist but i drew that conclution without even attempting to decipher, your race. I my self have many views based on race aginst both my race opposing races this is a flaw in most humans.but i would never state my racist views aloud, for i would run the risk of sounding ignorant.

    Seems to me you forgot that the people have "LOST EVERYTHING" whether they were poor before or not.They have nothing now most don't even have identification.
    you are speaking on independence like it is ok to let yourself suffer and struggle after losing everything rather than recive help from others.Why go through that when someone can at least give you a starting point to get on the track to independence.

    70% of daily activities that a person partakes in is reliant on our government. Making store puchases. the amount of money they take from your wages, state parks bankwithdraws i could go on. (Laws)Basic regulations of what you can and cant do in your daily life stimulate from your government so no one person is independent whether they live in a Democracy or Communist country the goverment controls you.

    I only blame the govenment for one thing and that is the fact that poeple from all over are helping New Orleans and some people in New orleans are helping them selve Yet the the American citizens who were naive to think the could depend on the superior's of their country in a time of tragedy have not even gotten a small helping hand from the goverment who is capable of cleaning this mess up faster and more correctly.

    As for the mayor and any other New orleans political member i blamed the government and they are a part of that Body so yes i did know about the buses and that was still a goverment flaw that they were not used. say it with me(Mayor and Governer is part of the goverment) i am choosing to defend the peoples stand point and not any binding member of goverment.the people are the legs that the goverment stands on and that position demands respect.

    flat out the goverment is wrong in this situation and theres no way to defend their actions

    as for trying to get the goverment out of my life i'd love to but theres no way society would survive with out it.There would be wars and clames on everthing.

    Life is a building and the government is our structual skeleton you move one beam and the whole thing comes tumbling down slowly but surly.
    Edited on 03/26/2006 11:41pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [11]Mar 27, 2006
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    Dear Warnersisluver,

    You are absolutely right in your assertion that government is directly involved in our lives. It was ,however, not always that way. The Federal income tax law was not enacted until the early 1900's. It was originally put in place to build Federal Highways, preserve National Parks, and maintain an effective military. It wasn't until the 1960's that taxpayer money was used to build a safety net for those in need. It has since become an entitlement program and ever increasing demands by those seeking free money have put a strain on the American taxpayer. Who do you think is financing free medical care and social programs for illegal aliens? It is YOUR money Warnersisluver.

    Let's say you and Nicolas are neighbors. Let's also assume he has the same mentality that he exhibits on the show. Both of you have the same relative opportunities in life. Some have more and climb fewer steps to success, and some have fewer. They will have to climb more steps to the same level of success.

    You decide to go to college and apply for grants and student loans. You also get a part-time job. He doesn't take the time to do any of the three. During your trips to and from classes, he is standing on the street corner complaining about his lack of opportunity and about racism.

    When you leave college and secure a job, you notice that the government demands a hefty portion of your income to promptly be given to Nicolas. He still complains that the government is not doing enough.

    As your income grows, the government demands more of your income. It goes, among other places, to Nicolas who still complains that he's gotten a raw deal in life. After all, that's what his parents told him to expect.

    When the storm is in the Gulf of Mexico, mandatory evacuations are issued. You leave in the car you bought because you went to college, paid back your student loans, and secured a job years before the storm. Nicolas didn't leave because he had no car, no job, and because the government didn't do enough to help him.

    When do you become angry Warnersisluver? Will you wait until the government takes 40% of your income? What about 50% or more? At what point will you stop working so hard since your money is being taken from you and given to someone else anyway? All the while you're being called an "Uncle Tom" or a "racist". Those "scrap checks" as you call them come from YOU. They don't belong to the government or to anyone else whose claim is that the government is not doing enough for them. It is not the government's fault for anyone's station in life. As with the hypothetical example above, it was Warnersisluver's action and Nicolas' inaction and the issues each individual CHOSE to focus on that yielded two different results.
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  • Avatar of Warnersisluver

    Warnersisluver

    [12]Mar 27, 2006
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    Kitty i am well aware that it is my hard earned money that is used to fund welfare and any other government funding program that is sometimes useless.Your right other people should not have the luxury of living off of my money. But this has taken us further from the subject we started on i think we will understand each others points more if we ask questions.please bare with me i am enjoying learning about your opposing views.here are my questions i will appreciate questions from you as well.

    1)how do you belive that the distruction of state or land should be handled after a storm?If the people have already been taken care of and the only thing left is the damage.Who would you say is responsable for the clean up?

    2)Do you think that racisim is non-existant?If so Why?

    3)What is you views on crimes that have already been proven to be racially motivated?

    and i would also like to know what you think of this persons comment

    http://www.tv.com/black.--white./show/55381/reviews.html&review_id=164971&flag=1&order=

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  • Avatar of minou_chere

    minou_chere

    [13]Mar 28, 2006
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    I have to whole heartedly agree with GGordonKitty, I'm from Louisiana and saw the aftermath of Katrina first hand. I certainly won't make the mistake of lumping all the blacks of New Orleans in the same category, but a large percentage of them simply did not take action to avoid the storm.

    Most were complacent due to the narrow misses that New Orleans has had in the past, and simply did not actually consider Katrina that large of a threat. A small section actually saw the storm as an opportunity for personal gain (this is why there were people driving in from several hours outside of New Orleans hoping to have the opportunity for looting). Still others just didn't look into what resources were available for them to get out of town, they simply decided that they were stuck without actually trying to find a way out of town. Also, the city government of New Orleans (mostly black) didn't have adequate preparations for the very likely event of a flood in New Orleans (what happened after Katrina actually wasn't the worst case scenario, and they've had models showing what was possible since the 80's). e.g. the city ordered buses, but didn't allocate for bus drivers.

    What we see on black.white only reinforces the sense of entitlement that seems prevalent in the black community. It also ensures that racism will still exist because of the negative stereotypes that are reinforced, any one who goes to work day in and day out and sees an ever larger portion of his/her salary going to federal aid programs etc. will become angry and as long as you hear the angry black complainer who is espousing his/her entitlement, it will continue to reinforce racism.

    As for Katrina, how exactly did a hurricane become a race issue? Do you think that the poor blacks of New Orleans were the only ones who lost everything? Why does it seem to only be those poor blacks who think that the government was supposed to take care of everything? How many people do you think didn't have flood insurance and are now starting from scratch, but aren't on tv complaining about the government? Those are the people who ate into their savings in order to secure hotel rooms or apartments for the interim period, then applied to the aid programs that were available and prayed to God that their insurance would cover the damage they incurred. A lot of those people had to separate from their families, to make arrangements so that they could get back to work ASAP, or relocate entirely in order to start getting a paycheck to cover expenses again, they certainly weren't waiting around for the government to take care of everything, they went out and did what they had to do to make it through. Of course if you pay attention to the media, these people's stories aren't being told, you could almost get the idea that only blacks were affected by the hurricane and that all the other races in New Orleans simply went about their daily business with no changes whatsoever.
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  • Avatar of faitho113

    faitho113

    [14]Mar 29, 2006
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    I am a white school counselor with a degree in sociology as well. The concept that blacks are on welfare because "they choose to be" appears to be flawed in my opinion. The flaw in that thinking is that we as whites/dominant culture believe or are taught to believe that we all have the same oppoutunity to achieve and that's just not true. It is more difficult as a black/minority individual to achieve because the black/minority individual always has to live up to the expectations of white/dominant culture. From what I can see those that become successful have to acculturate to the dominant culture, which in our country is white. So many black/minority individuals feel they have to act and behave in a different way when they are at work versus when they are at home. Not bieng able to be who you are and believing that everyone has equal oppourtunity are great examples of racism. I remember bieng taught in history class that America was a "melting pot" that concept just isn't correct. What that really means is we as the dominant culture expect all others/minorities to acculturate to white/dominant expectation in order to create more oppourtunity for themselves. I'm not saying all whites as individuals are racist, what I am saying is this country is built on a systemic racism. We are responsible for breaking down those barriers.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [15]Mar 29, 2006
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    Warnersisluver,

    Thanks for your interest. This is how a hurricane clean might be handled and who might be responsible for it. Of course, to make this a realistic scenario, one would have to assume that ALL Americans were self reliant and didn't view the government as a babysitter or an entity designed to save them for their own unpreparedness and ineptness.

    1) Reimburse Federal taxpayers in the affected region the tax dollars that they have payed into the system. This amount should not exceed the amount that it would take to make their property whole again. Americans give away more than any other nation on earth in the form of charity. That along with private organizations could solve more problems than the government can.

    This would only entail extra effort on the part of government employees to process the paperwork for each homeowner and business owner.

    If an individual had not paid Federal taxes at all, or not paid enough to achieve this goal, government loans would be issued to those individuals and repayed based on income and personal circumstances. Failure to do so would result in imprisonment. This idea would alliviate the problem of fraud that occurs when the government doles out huge dollar amounts which rarely go where they're intended to go anyway. It would be far less expensive as well.

    Regarding whether or not racism exists;

    I do not believe racism exists under the current definition of the word, i.e. "Discrimination based solely on skin color." This term has been hi-jacked by the politically correct crowd and has become a blanket term to describe only Caucasians and has become a battle cry for the excuse makers.

    I do believe, however, that Culturalism exists. That is, a division of ethnic groups based on mannerisms, priorities within different cultures, and expectations of what role government should play within each culture.

    If those who claim that racism does exist and it is their constant tormentor, then ask these questions,"Why do other ethnic groups react so negatively to my group? Is there even a possibility that my group carries an image, based on behavior within my group, to cause this reaction? Should I consider what the other group's experience has been with my group instead of focusing only on the opposite?"

    These questions would require answers from within and a great deal of personal reflection. For that reason, these questions have not been, nor will they be asked.
    I expect the same reponse that these ideas have always encouraged. From those who assume I'm white, I'll be called a racist. If I'm assumed to be of any other group except black, I'll be called ignorant. A black person with these views is automatically "acting white" or an "Uncle Tom."

    No dialogue will occur. It will be just more of the same.

    We're all on the Titanic. Some of us are just too busy looking for a scapegoat to notice that we're all sinking together.

    the Titanic. Some are just too busy looking for a scapegoat to notice that we're all sinking together.
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  • Avatar of minou_chere

    minou_chere

    [16]Mar 29, 2006
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    faitho113 wrote:
    I am a white school counselor with a degree in sociology as well. The concept that blacks are on welfare because "they choose to be" appears to be flawed in my opinion. The flaw in that thinking is that we as whites/dominant culture believe or are taught to believe that we all have the same oppoutunity to achieve and that's just not true. It is more difficult as a black/minority individual to achieve because the black/minority individual always has to live up to the expectations of white/dominant culture. From what I can see those that become successful have to acculturate to the dominant culture, which in our country is white. So many black/minority individuals feel they have to act and behave in a different way when they are at work versus when they are at home. Not bieng able to be who you are and believing that everyone has equal oppourtunity are great examples of racism. I remember bieng taught in history class that America was a "melting pot" that concept just isn't correct. What that really means is we as the dominant culture expect all others/minorities to acculturate to white/dominant expectation in order to create more oppourtunity for themselves. I'm not saying all whites as individuals are racist, what I am saying is this country is built on a systemic racism. We are responsible for breaking down those barriers.


    The question is of course what your definition of racism is, in my opinion racism is a bias based solely on a visible physical racial characteristic. By that definition, I am not racist, nor are most others, by the definition you seem to be using any kind of discrimination based upon actions or other characteristics is racism. Using that definition would make almost everyone a racist. It seems to me what you're describing sounds more like anti-individualism than racism. Of course, through the history of time, group morals have been valued more than individuality, when and why did this change in our culture?

    If you view having to behave differently at work than you do at home in order to succeed as an example of racism then I have been a victim of racism too, I certainly behave in a different way in a professional environment than I do when I'm with family and friends. This seems to be a thought process that has been instilled in most whites over the last 40 to 50 years is that we are behaving in a racist manner by expecting others to behave a certain way when interacting with us. Again, it seems to be a problem of perception, you view this practice as asking other races to behave like "whites", where as I view it as asking others to develop a comfort zone, by speaking clearly and dressing in a manner that could not be offensive to others of any belief system. More at the root, you are exhibiting more of an example of racism by assuming that whites act a specific way in the first place. Is it a "white" characteristic to be dressed conservatively in a professional environment and to enunciate, or merely that our culture values the appearance of intelligence and non-threat provoking mannerisms?

    As a sociologist, your question should be to ask if in the absense of racial interaction and influence, would caucasions be the only racial group to exhibit these characteristics. I happen to believe that they wouldn't, it seems to me that most other races also value these ideals in the societies where they are the majority. So, by my belief, asking individuals to conform to a standard group ideal of action is far from being racist, in fact it's designed to make anyone from any culture or group feel welcomed and accepted rather than threatened and uncomfortable.
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