Black. White. Forums

FX (ended 2006)

This show should be called just "Black."

  • Avatar of la820

    la820

    [1]Mar 29, 2006
    • member since: 03/30/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7
    The description on the home page of this website says "...two families trade places to get a taste of how the other one lives." So far on the show, I've only seen the white family trying to see how blacks live. It's like the blacks just assume that they already know how whites live and that they don't need to be educated about our "culture." But, hey, all whites live on Easy Street, right? We were all born with silver spoons in our mouths. Isn't that the assumption? We have no problems, no strife, no prejudice, no difficulties in our lives, only black people do. Right. And, of course, there is no such thing as blacks being prejudiced against whites. Right.

    I totally agree with Bruno's (the white dad's) philosophy. He acknowledges that there is racism, but he also knows that it is how you present yourself in the world that makes the difference. If you walk around with an attitude or a chip on your shoulder, just waiting to be a victim, then that is how people will view you. And what I see is Brian and Renee (the black parents) trying to instill victimization in their son, Nick, trying to make sure, absolutely sure, that he feels victimized, even when he doesn't.

    There are all kinds of "isms" in this world. I'm a woman and was in the Army in the early '80s. Talk about experiencing sexism (some of it by black guys, I might add -but I guess they're allowed)! But I never let it bother me, never let it bring me down or feel sorry for myself, never let it control my life in any way. I just ignored it. And about slavery and prejudice, I'll say this: Read some world history and you'll find that just about every race, ethnic group, culture, religion, etc., has at some point in history experienced slavery, indentured servitude, prejudice, ethnic cleansing, victimization, etc. Blacks don't own title to prejudice or victimization. And, if I recall history correctly, African blacks sold their own people into slavery.

    So, please, please, enough of this bad white people crap. I'm so sick of it. Move on and get a life.

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  • Avatar of Rack

    Rack

    [2]Mar 30, 2006
    • member since: 09/18/05
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 31
    I have to agree with you on how they're portraying whites. It seems everytime they show a white "thing" it's all upper class type of stuff. Like that etiquette class. WTF? I've never even heard of an etiquette class.

    And I can assure you I haven't lived on easy street. I grew up on a border town (born and raised) in south texas. 99% hispanic (mexicans and mexican/americans). I've most likely experienced more racism then anyone on that dang show. Yes, I got my a** kicked a lot when I was a kid. Yes I got called all the names a kid can think of growing up. Never saw a teacher in school do a dang thing about it either. Just let it happen.

    Crap like that didn't stop until I hit a growth spurt. Even then it didn't "Stop". It just wasn't out in the open (to my face) very often. I'm 34 years old now and just the other day while I was at work some guy used a racist comment towards me.

    The way this show is portraying whites and blacks is annoying.
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  • Avatar of Ellbee

    Ellbee

    [3]Mar 31, 2006
    • member since: 12/06/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 89
    Hi La820

    Just wanted to respond to your post. Sometimes I read this board and think I'm watching a different show. To me, both families are annoying for different reasons. Anyone who has ever picked up a newspaper or watched television knows that whites are unsually not wealthy - that stereotype went the way of Dynasty and Dallas. And all of those reality, court and talk shows we've been addicted to for years highlight the whole host of problems whites deal with regularly, so that one's out too. I also must say that white stereotypes of being filthy rich and having no problems is not exactly negative. How about trading yours for lazy, dumb and criminal minded and see how THAT feels.

    As for your army experience, I'm also a woman so I know what it's like to be mistreated because of my gender and how that makes you feel. However, in the army, you did your time and got out. Blacks can't do that - their time is permanent.

    Imagine living your entire life in the army, moving up the ranks and now you're a Major and so the men there generally don't disrespect you. Then you go home - to Manville USA - and your rank means nothing. The men there still think you're only good for cleaning their floors and cooking their food - that's what you do best. Not all of them feel this way, but you can't always tell which do and which don't. You're a bright, successful officer at work, but when you leave, everyone assumes you don't have a brain in your head. That's how many successful blacks feel every day. Most blacks have a decent amount of success and are not stereotypes like you see on tv. Our subordinates can't act the fool at work or they'll be out of a job, but outside of the office, we're drug suspects, assumed to be fatherless, uneducated and worse.

    On one episode, Bruno talked about his experience in college where he played basketball and the black guys would never throw him the ball because he was white. He said he played better than any of them but was penalized because of his skin color. It made him angry but he insisted that he "did something about it". His wife specificially asked him what he did. He didn't have an answer. Because he COULDN'T do anything about how others perceived him - all he could do was graduate from school and not play basketball with them again. Again, blacks can't do that. In their lives, some whites treat blacks like Bruno was treated by those basketball players. They hardly ever get the ball, and when they do, they're expected to hit the basket perfectly every time or they don't get another shot. That's unrealistic and automatically sets them up for failure. Blacks don't necessarily want special treatment, just an equal shot.
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  • Avatar of la820

    la820

    [4]Mar 31, 2006
    • member since: 03/30/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7
    Hi Ellbee,

    Believe it or not, I understand and "get" what you're saying. And, also, believe it or not, I was once what would be called a dyed-in-the-wool, bleeding-heart liberal (sympathetic to black people). I have moved more towards the middle over the years, however, for a variety of reasons.

    I think the frustration that I (and other whites) feel about the race issue is that it is seemingly a no-win situation, no matter how we approach it. It seems that whites are always wrong on this issue, no matter what we say or do. There seems to be no room for common sense discussion, where we can acknowledge that, yes, there is racism, but perhaps the answer to moving beyond racism lies within the black community itself. Note that I did not say "overcome" racism, because I don't think that will ever happen -- nor will discrimination in its many forms ever be completely eradicated. This is where it becomes up to the individual to rise above and make positive choices in their life, not to allow themselves to become victims and wallow in self-pity or to act out in socially unacceptable ways.

    One thing that I have to say is that I think most whites are tired of being apologetic for the sins of our forefathers. However, keep in mind that really only a very small percentage of white people in this country have ancestors who committed those sins, and even they are not to blame for their ancestor's transgressions. My maternal grandparents came over on a boat from Ireland in 1911 and resided in the North. On the paternal side of my family, our roots are traced to Scotland.

    That said, I ask you what exactly it is that you want me and other whites to do about racism? I ask this seriously. I can only account for my own actions, in which I think I am fair and respectful to all people I meet. And I've raised my children with the same belief system. But what I've said repeatedly, in the several posts I've made on this forum, is that, basically, blacks need to start taking responsibility for how they handle racism (real or perceived), and, perhaps, also for the fact that the actions of a lot of blacks have exacerbated racism or caused justified anger/frustration/fear, etc., on the part of whites, which is then "perceived" as racism by blacks.

    I brought up the fact that I have experienced sexism to illustrate that blacks do not own title to discrimination. You said that I only experienced it for the years I was in the Army, which is not true. And I mentioned that I experienced sexism from some black men to illustrate the fact that blacks are not beyond reproach when it comes to discriminating. It happens all around us in all forms. I'm sure that within the black community itself, discrimination is no stranger, with blacks discriminating against other blacks, for whatever reason. The same is true within the white community.

    So Ellbee, to me, the bottom line of this issue is that black people need to start taking responsibility and make better choices with how they handle their lives. I can't do it for them.




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  • Avatar of vernonsr2004

    vernonsr2004

    [5]Mar 31, 2006
    • member since: 10/01/04
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 5
    I am a black male my age is 23 years old, i have a son and I work for at&t. I agree with your reply's alot but one thing, I have to say is when you say we(as in black people)need to take control of our lives it's true but it's harder than words. Example if you look at the ratio of children graduating from high school in the white or suburbs,(black live in the suburbs as well) the graduating percentage is high. Why because if you look at the way the money is spent, and all the programs that are in the schools,the way the teachers try to reach out and help the students, it's a better learning process. Now if you went in the inner city,(there are white people living in the ghetto as well)and went to school there the school results are a big difference. In the inner city the education lacks so much, the city schools are learning things later than suburb schools. Also in city schools not many teachers care about the students, they pass students that clearly don't understand/have the skills to the next education level. Inner city schools here in america, are overlooked by the Board of educations everywhere. I think if we as a human race want to rid(well i don't think we can ever get rid) racism, we need to start at HOME. I think EVERYONE in this world has a little racism in them(it's natural to down something/or someone different. I think we as Parents need to let our children know yes there is a difference and if another race does something bad to them, let them know that all people of that race are not like that. The reason i know how the system works is because i lived it, i lived in the ghetto with my family, no father, mom always away, grandparents taking care of me, going to public/inner city schools and get f's in a class and pass that class. Lucky for me i have a uncle who lives in the suburb in another state(so that way i can have a fresh start)and wanted to show me the diffrence. When i got to school down there, the classes were very hard, the students were learning things i never heard of. And i had to work extra hard because i didn't know much, so my lack of knowledge caused me to do poorly and i did not pass some classes. It hurt knowing my senior year, i couldn't walk across the stage because i had to go to summer school. But now that i'm older, i'm glad they didn't pass me because they felt sorry for me, if i didn't go to summer school and work my butt off maybe i wouldn't have known the material to have the job i'm at now.(i'm 23 making $50,000 a year in missouri that's great). i think the show should be more open to racism on both families not just the black family(cause black people believe it or not we say/think/do pretty harsh things to whites just because they are white and vice versa
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  • Avatar of vernonsr2004

    vernonsr2004

    [6]Mar 31, 2006
    • member since: 10/01/04
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 5
    I am a black male my age is 23 years old, i have a son and I work for at&t.
    I agree with your reply's alot but one thing, I have to say is when you say we(as in black people)need to take control of our lives it's true but it's harder than words.

    Example if you look at the ratio of children graduating from high school in the white or suburbs,(black live in the suburbs as well) the graduating percentage is high.

    Why because if you look at the way the money is spent, and all the programs that are in the schools,the way the teachers try to reach out and help the students, it's a better learning process. Now if you went in the inner city,(there are white people living in the ghetto as well)and went to school there the school results are a big difference. In the inner city the education lacks so much, the city schools are learning things later than suburb schools. Also in city schools not many teachers care about the students, they pass students that clearly don't understand/have the skills to the next education level. Inner city schools here in america, are overlooked by the Board of educations everywhere.

    I think if we as a human race want to rid(well i don't think we can ever get rid) racism, we need to start at HOME. I think EVERYONE in this world has a little racism in them(it's natural to down something/or someone different. I think we as Parents need to let our children know yes there is a difference and if another race does something bad to them, let them know that all people of that race are not like that.

    The reason i know how the system works is because i lived it, i lived in the ghetto with my family, no father, mom always away, grandparents taking care of me, going to public/inner city schools and get f's in a class and pass that class. Lucky for me i have a uncle who lives in the suburb in another state(so that way i can have a fresh start)and wanted to show me the diffrence.

    When i got to school down there, the classes were very hard, the students were learning things i never heard of. And i had to work extra hard because i didn't know much, so my lack of knowledge caused me to do poorly and i did not pass some classes. It hurt knowing my senior year, i couldn't walk across the stage because i had to go to summer school. But now that i'm older, i'm glad they didn't pass me because they felt sorry for me, if i didn't go to summer school and work my butt off maybe i wouldn't have known the material to have the job i'm at now.(i'm 23 making $50,000 a year in missouri that's great).

    i think the show should be more open to racism on both families not just the black family(cause black people believe it or not we say/think/do pretty harsh things to whites just because they are white and vice versa
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  • Avatar of Ellbee

    Ellbee

    [7]Mar 31, 2006
    • member since: 12/06/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 89
    Hi again la820,

    No point in rehashing what was said previously. I think you really do want to "get it" but judging from your post, which makes some good points, you still don't. Here's why.

    You bring up the point that your ancestors didn't own slaves. Lots of whites make this argument. Slavery may have ended in 1864, but the Civil Rights Act, which allowed us to earn a decent wage and vote (which you couldn't do in the south) came along in 1964, one hundred years later. That was only 42 years ago, a very short time in terms of history. So, for the record, it isn't about slavery. In 2006, we still have substandard educational facilities, limited access to housing (home owners in nice areas don't always sell to blacks, even if they have the money), access to management positions for qualified candidates, low expectations sight unseen, the list goes on and on. I'll tell you one thing. If we were as crazy and angry about slavery as white people say we are, white folks would have been massacred years ago. The fact that you're all still here and an uprising is NOT on our agenda speaks volumes for our willingness to let things go.

    Now - about crime. Yes, blacks commit crimes. So do whites. Yet the punishment is not equally distributed. Most teenagers are idiots when they're young and they do stupid things. White kids get second chances while black kids do not. When I watch shows like Judge Judy or Judge Mathis, I am always saddened by how many whites admit that they have sold drugs or assaulted someone, been arrested and received 6 months of community service (thanks to their highly paid attorneys), while minority kids get arrested for the same or less drastic crimes and receive serious prison time - which affects their record, which affects their ability to become gainfully employed. Should justice be handed out based on who can pay for the best lawyer? Justice should be handed out based on the crime and it isn't.

    OK - I'm pretty much done. Just one more thing. Your final comment about us taking responsibility for our lives - well, what about those of us - MANY of us - who have and still experience racism? We're educated, have decent jobs, are law abiding and mentor our youth. I don't know how much more responsible we can be. Maybe it's time whites took more responsibility for THEIR role in other people's hardships. What do you teach your children about black people? Do you avoid hiring blacks because you worked with one that had an "attitude"? Do you grab your bag when a black man approaches? Lock your car door? We didn't get here by ourselves. You guys helped a lot.

    Hope we're still cool!
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [8]Mar 31, 2006
    • member since: 03/17/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 28
    Ellbee:

    I know whites all over this country will be relieved to know that blacks could have massacred them at any point, but decided not to do so. I'm sure they all thank you for your mercy.

    It might be useful to remember that blacks comprise only 12% of the total population of this country. It would have been, at the very least, a poor military judgment given those numbers. It's comments like yours that perpetuate the impression, that most whites that I know, have about violence within the black community. It would also be a relief (and quite a surprise) to know - in your own words - that "it isn't about slavery". Given that black tribal leaders sold their own people into slavery, and that white Europeans have typically been solely accountable for those events, one could understand why slavery would cease to be a valid excuse anymore.

    As far as your assertion that inner-city schools are inferior, one could ask why wouldn't they be? Given that most young blacks consider academic achievement, being articulate and having a legitimate job are perceived to be white. Is it any wonder that teachers would give up?

    It is simply time that the black community took responsibility for the problems that originate in that community. It is not the responsibility of white America, nor any other ethnic group, which blacks have categorized as racists, to solve that communities problems for them.

    These same worn out excuses have not worked for the African American community in the past. They have only served as a wall that keeps this segment of society from moving forward.

    I have a feeling that white America has grown tired of throwing money at problems within the black community. It seems that enough laws have been written to tip the scales in the favor of blacks who now feel entitled to a particular outcome. Why would white America try anymore given that they are considered racists no matter what they do anyway.

    If voting rights is the latest beef, please re-read the 15th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

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  • Avatar of la820

    la820

    [9]Apr 1, 2006
    • member since: 03/30/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7
    Yes, Ellbee, we're still cool. Discussion is good.

    I do realize that there are educated, responsible blacks with good jobs who are raising their children to be responsible human beings. I regret the fact that there are ignorant people who are disrespectful or mistreat you simply because of the color of your skin. I do know this happens, and it stinks.

    I also have to say that discrimination exists in many forms, though. White people experience it too, though usually for different reasons (although they do, also, experience racism from blacks). But does it matter if the reasons are different? Discrimination is discrimination no matter what form it takes. I think the problem that a lot of white people have is that there is a segment (pretty large) of blacks who are very vocal about blaming every bad experience in their lives as being directly related to racism (and, yes, slavery – I’ve heard it said many times), where in many cases it may just be that they have made bad choices in their lives and chosen to wallow in self-pity or denial.

    I think this segment of blacks is mainly poor and uneducated, although not always. However, there is a segment of the white population (any population, for that matter) that is also poor and uneducated. However, the whites don’t have racism to use as their rallying flag to draw attention to themselves or to blame for their situation. Once again, I think a lot of them have just made poor choices in their lives. Realistically, I know that it goes deeper than that (socially, economically, psychologically). But my point is that a lot of whites feel that blacks use racism as an excuse; they take advantage of it and try to profit from it in certain ways and use it as a means to not move forward in their lives.

    Many whites, like me, feel that we have exhausted all means of trying to help blacks get a leg up. I can’t change the racist attitudes that some white people adhere to; I can’t change their minds for them. But, basically, blacks now have the same opportunities available to them that whites do, including legal recourse where discrimination is involved.

    I came from a liberal household. One of my sisters was a social worker (in the ‘80s) in a predominantly black area of Mississippi. She quit after two years because of her frustration from the attitude of so many blacks who demanded (DEMANDED) money and good jobs (for which they were not qualified). Any help she tried to give them (like encouraging taking education seriously) that didn’t directly involve a handout was met with scorn and anger. My brother (a bleeding heart) is now thinking of quitting his teaching job of nine years because of the difficulties he has in dealing with the black students. (His school in Mississippi is almost 50/50, black/white.) He says the majority of them are rude, hateful, and disrespectful. They are disruptive. They are threatening. They have no desire to learn. And all of it is done with this sense of entitlement, this sense of “White people owe me something.”

    So where does that leave us? When even a lot of us “bleeding heart liberals” have been turned off, what does that leave? It leaves the responsibility directly in the heart of the black community.
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  • Avatar of HVGirl

    HVGirl

    [10]Apr 17, 2006
    • member since: 09/07/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 49
    All I want to say is what a great discussion ) I have read others and you get people on there who just "push" what they think is racism. I said it before, racism and stereotypes are a BIG misconception! *claps* good job on a great discussion )
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  • Avatar of HVGirl

    HVGirl

    [11]Apr 17, 2006
    • member since: 09/07/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 49
    LOL those faces were supposed to be smiles, not look like I'm hollaring LOL!
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  • Avatar of jxsilicon9

    jxsilicon9

    [12]May 23, 2006
    • member since: 05/27/03
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 416

    la820,first of all this show sucks and it really solved no problems. It was just a controversial ploy to make money.Maybe you should do more studying up on history.So let me get this straight. Your reasoning is that because all races in the world have experienced problems that it justifies slavery. Or that some African tribes joined the Europeans and traded people for weapons that justifies the slavery.The african slave trade was the biggest forced migration in human history. With 10's of millions traded over the world and millions more died on the trip. Second, the inequalities in this country between blacks and whites are huge. And they have been that way since the beginning. The system was never changed but just added on too. There has been dozens of studies from independent research organizations,colleges,etc that continue to still today find these inequalities to be true. Unlike the Japanese,jews,etc blacks were never payed reparations. Blacks were released from slavery with nothing but the clothes on their backs because they didn't earn anything.Look up two acres and a mule.It seems whites love trying to use slavery and say its over. But they seem to forget the years after slavery. It wasn't until the 1960's and years later laws were passed against discrimination,abuse,attacks,etc. So lets see we are talking about 100+ years in slavery and several decades until you can get so-so treatment. I haven't even went into the numerous lynchings,assasinations,mass destruction of black towns(Tulsa,rosewood,etc). Mob killings of any blacks who tried to get a high position or buy property,which there were alot of,I could go on but it would take several pages.

    Whites didn't just magically decide to give blacks rights. It was fought for by blacks for more then half of this countries inception. Beginning in the 1930s and 1940s, the federal government created programs that subsidized low-cost home loans, opening up home ownership to millions of Americans for the first time. At the same time, government underwriters introduced a national appraisal system tying property value and loan eligibility to race, inventing "redlining," and effectively locking nonwhites out of home-buying just as most middle class white Americans were beginning to purchase homes. Federal affirmative action guidelines specifically prohibit quotas. Beginning in the 1930, the Federal Housing Administration and related programs made it possible for millions of average white Americans to own a home for the first time and set off the post-WWII suburban building boom.

    The government established a national neighborhood appraisal system, explicitly tying mortgage eligibility to race, a policy known today as "redlining." The FHA and other government policies made possible the post-World War II all-white suburbs, while people of color and in central cities were denied loans. Government policies and practices helped create two legacies that are still with us today: segregated communities and a substantial wealth gap between whites and nonwhites, much of which can be traced to the differential value of their homes. Probably no one statistic better captures the cumulative disadvantage of past discrimination than wealth. Even at the same income levels, whites still have, on average, twice as much wealth as nonwhites. Much of this difference is due to the different rates of home ownership and the different values of homes in white and Black neighborhoods. But wealth is not only the end point, it's the starting line for the next generation - helping finance your children's education, helping them through hard times, or helping with the down payment of their own home. Economists estimate 50-80% of one's lifetime wealth accumulation can be traced to this head start. As wealth gets passed down from generation to generation, the legacy of past discrimination accumulates, giving whites and nonwhites vastly different life chances. The Civil Rights Act made racial discrimination in public places illegal.

    The other programs are all examples of racial preferences - for white people. Over a 40-year period, the Homestead Act gave away, for free, 270 million acres of what had been Indian Territory, almost all of it to white people. The Naturalization Act allowed only "free white persons" to adopt citizenship, thus opening our doors to European immigrants, but barring Asians and other groups. Racial barriers to citizenship were not removed until 1952. The Federal Housing Administration made it possible for millions of average white Americans - but not others - to own a home for the first time. And the Social Security Act specifically exempted two occupations from coverage: farm-workers and domestics, both largely non-white.

     According to the 2000 Census, whites are more likely to be segregated than any other group. This is largely a result of past housing discrimination, but it is perpetuated today by unfair practices such as predatory lending, racial steering and a substantial wealth gap between black and white families. Today, 71% of whites own their own home, compared to 44% of African Americans. Black and Latino mortgage applicants are 60% more likely than whites to be turned down for loans, even after controlling for employment, financial, and neighborhood characteristics. On average, nonwhites who are approved for mortgages still pay higher rates.

    I'm not even going into police brutality,the differences in criminal sentencing between blacks and whites. Along with alot of other things. Because it will take forever to write all of that information up. I've been studying world history for years and continue to research all views. And the truth it that Americans don't like confronting their past and it shows. When people in this country see this is an American problem and not black or white. We can then make a hell of alot more progress. You can try that America has no more racial problems with something as less educated as you on this problem. But you can't try that on someone like me that has been researching this for years. 

    Why don't you read up on your history and you try and lie to yourself that this countries history and present inequalities have nothing to do with it?

    Edited on 05/23/2006 12:13am
    Edited 5 total times.
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  • Avatar of nessa-winter

    nessa-winter

    [13]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 10/30/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 1

    You
    are misinterpreting what the black family is saying, the society is dominated
    by the white race, & don't you think you would feel intimidated by them at
    times & you should think about where their points of view are coming from.



    Blacks
    are stereotyped the most & did you notice whites really aren't stereotyped
    in a negative way that much compared to other races (Because of being the
    dominate race).



    Anyway,
    racism stands different in all societies, all over the world. I don't think you
    will be able to understand anyone’s point of view or experiences (to do with
    racism, gender, ethnicities etc) even if you are put in similar situations or
    the same situations the most you can do is have an open mind. Right.



    -
    I'm not black, nor I guess white, I am half philippino and half white, I'm a 14
    year old girl.. & I guess the only way you can stereotype me is as being
    myself - Vanessa.

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  • Avatar of MeyaP

    MeyaP

    [14]Jan 31, 2007
    • member since: 01/29/07
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 41

    Ellbee wrote:
    Hi again la820, No point in rehashing what was said previously. I think you really do want to "get it" but judging from your post, which makes some good points, you still don't. Here's why. You bring up the point that your ancestors didn't own slaves. Lots of whites make this argument. Slavery may have ended in 1864, but the Civil Rights Act, which allowed us to earn a decent wage and vote (which you couldn't do in the south) came along in 1964, one hundred years later. That was only 42 years ago, a very short time in terms of history. So, for the record, it isn't about slavery. In 2006, we still have substandard educational facilities, limited access to housing (home owners in nice areas don't always sell to blacks, even if they have the money), access to management positions for qualified candidates, low expectations sight unseen, the list goes on and on. I'll tell you one thing. If we were as crazy and angry about slavery as white people say we are, white folks would have been massacred years ago. The fact that you're all still here and an uprising is NOT on our agenda speaks volumes for our willingness to let things go. Now - about crime. Yes, blacks commit crimes. So do whites. Yet the punishment is not equally distributed. Most teenagers are idiots when they're young and they do stupid things. White kids get second chances while black kids do not. When I watch shows like Judge Judy or Judge Mathis, I am always saddened by how many whites admit that they have sold drugs or assaulted someone, been arrested and received 6 months of community service (thanks to their highly paid attorneys), while minority kids get arrested for the same or less drastic crimes and receive serious prison time - which affects their record, which affects their ability to become gainfully employed. Should justice be handed out based on who can pay for the best lawyer? Justice should be handed out based on the crime and it isn't. OK - I'm pretty much done. Just one more thing. Your final comment about us taking responsibility for our lives - well, what about those of us - MANY of us - who have and still experience racism? We're educated, have decent jobs, are law abiding and mentor our youth. I don't know how much more responsible we can be. Maybe it's time whites took more responsibility for THEIR role in other people's hardships. What do you teach your children about black people? Do you avoid hiring blacks because you worked with one that had an "attitude"? Do you grab your bag when a black man approaches? Lock your car door? We didn't get here by ourselves. You guys helped a lot. Hope we're still cool!

    jxsilicon9 wrote:

    Maybe you should do more studying up on history.So let me get this straight. Your reasoning is that because all races in the world have experienced problems that it justifies slavery. Or that some African tribes joined the Europeans and traded people for weapons that justifies the slavery.The african slave trade was the biggest forced migration in human history. With 10's of millions traded over the world and millions more died on the trip. Second, the inequalities in this country between blacks and whites are huge. And they have been that way since the beginning. The system was never changed but just added on too. There has been dozens of studies from independent research organizations,colleges,etc that continue to still today find these inequalities to be true. Unlike the Japanese,jews,etc blacks were never payed reparations. Blacks were released from slavery with nothing but the clothes on their backs because they didn't earn anything.Look up two acres and a mule.It seems whites love trying to use slavery and say its over. But they seem to forget the years after slavery. It wasn't until the 1960's and years later laws were passed against discrimination,abuse,attacks,etc. So lets see we are talking about 100+ years in slavery and several decades until you can get so-so treatment. I haven't even went into the numerous lynchings,assasinations,mass destruction of black towns(Tulsa,rosewood,etc). Mob killings of any blacks who tried to get a high position or buy property,which there were alot of,I could go on but it would take several pages.

    THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I was first going to try to refrain from commenting on this topic because I knew I would just get frustrated and end up typing up a year's worth of response to this topic...

    Then, based on the first few comments, I felt HIGHLY COMPELLED to respond because I couldn't believe what I was seeing...

    But...thank GOD for people like Ellbee and jxsilicon9!!  Couldn't have said it better myself.

    And although I know that this topic has been dormant for several months now, ha...and that the two people above pretty much touched on a few things I was going to mention...there are just a few other things I wanted to throw out there.

    #1...Racism, discrimination, slavery and injustice throughout history has been wrong in every way, shape and form - there is no denying that.  However...as somewhat already mentioned, although it was done many times to many different people in the past, Blacks in America are the only ones who were completely stripped of their native religion, language, culture and customs and even, in many cases, their family.  Everyone else who has suffered from some type of slavery or large-scale racism or genocide have managed to bounce back...because they were not comPLETEly stripped of practically EVERYthing...

    Personally speaking, African slavery for black people is not a crutch, as far too many people mistakingly label it, but is instead motivation....and serves as something that did in fact happen in this country's history....and, just as the Jews make SURE no one ever forgets about the Holocaust (and with good reason, of course), blacks want to have the same, when it comes to slavery, the whole Civil Rights era and any other periods throughout this country's history that heavily dealt with the massive wrongdoings of African and black people...

    Keep in mind, also, that blacks' ancestors endured CENTURIES of madness - not just some years....not even some decades...but CENTURIES - HUNDREDS of years...

    and the on-the-surface madness didn't even end until just a few decades ago...

    and as already said, that was just on the surface - imagine what all still lies beneath!

    Many of those people from the '40s, '50s and '60s and such who protested against blacks gaining rights, having equality and integrating into more of American culture and still alive and well today......and to make matters worse, are passing on a lot of that mentality down to their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

    #2...Many blacks do know that not all white people are racist or out to get them....but...as best said by the comedian D.L. Hughley once when asked by Bill O'Reilly why blacks always think that whites are out to get them, whereas many groups of people who have been discriminated against throughout history have a few main figureheads they can point at for their unfair treatment, torture and years of misery (i.e. Adolf Hitler for the Jews)...blacks do not have that........because it was always not just one or two people starting full-fledged hateful acts against blacks, but it was everyone from the KKK to a church pastor; from the president or governor, down to the elementary school custodian; from the 65-year-old sheriff and all or at least most of the police officers under him, to the 5-year-old classmate in kindergarten in class...

    In other words, it was the majority of whites - all types, classes, ages, religions and occupations....

    #3...In addition to that, my own observation is that even in 2007, while many people claim that blacks are always so quick to pull the "race card," the question is: can you blame us?

    Yes, perhaps in some cases, it may be much, but overall....think of how many times - not even 50 years ago, but ten years ago....5 years ago....that something was blatantly held from us or done against us collectively or individually, because of our color?

    Just like the whole Hurricane Katrina controversy - my whole thing was, yeah...just like many things, there is always the possibility that the government didn't purposely wait around to help those people, solely because of the fact that they were mostly black.....but at the same time, there is also the possibility (a much stronger possibility, at that - based on this country's history and tendencies) that that really was the reason...so, how do we really know?  The thing is, we don't...because that is how this country designed it to be.  Only about 30 years ago were we blatantly discriminated against and before that, we didn't catch a break since we were first forced over here centuries prior, so what else do you expect?  You expect people to get over that in just some years - even when many of us still experience it - either on or below the surface - everyday?  We must be realistic.

    #4...As a woman, I do understand the whole sexism thing...It is definitely real and exists...HOWEVER...

    Throughout history and even today, in comparison and generally speaking, sexism has not been the cause of massive beatings, hangings, castrations and rapings - being spat on...having feces and urine thrown at you....being hosed and unfairly tried and convicted for crimes you didn't even commit.........having to take different entrances into buildings...and use low-quality versions and areas of public facilities - if you could even use them at all...

    Yes, some degrees of sexism have led to humiliation, embarassment and being stripped of one's dignity, such as rape, which I do of course believe is horrible in any way, shape or form...and although, unquestionably, none of it is right.....that discrimination and hatred is always on an individual-by-individual basis - not on the basis of an entire population of people....

    Just explaining the difference...

    And if you want to compare the discrimination to modern day...let's just use the mere example of....a black man walking into a room full of white people...compared to a woman walking into a room full of men.....

    What would be some of the average thoughts of the white people in the first situation, versus the thoughts of the men in the second one?

    Enough said.

    There is just NO comparison...

    I am a woman, yes, and still, I know that there is no comparison....

    I have many female friends and acquaintances - old and young - from all over the country who will say the same thing...

    No comparison.

     #5...And I saw that the reparations argument was mentioned - Amen to that!  Not only have there been no reparations, but no real and genuine atonement for what happened...

    Many of the apologies have come out of the feel of obligation and political correctness...but there have been no large atonement or even the real ability for the black community to massively heal from all that happened in the past....

    #6....A for the comments about many of our youth being "rude" and "disrespectful," which is why we can't get but so far...well, first of all, it is interesting because many blacks would say the same thing about white youth.  Many blacks - and other races, not to mention - think that white youth, from toddler to teenage, are rude, disrespectful, out of control, spoiled and have little to no discipline....but the fact of the matter is, maybe we just don't understand them...just like it is clearly the case that many whites do not understand our youth, when they are quick to write them off as another "delinquent."

    As much as you might be trying to help or whatever else is the case, you cannot come into black neighborhoods with the rules that you've always known to work for you.  Many times, not all, but many of these people "trying to help" have not gone through what these young kids have gone through...seen what they've seen...or been where they have been.

    and finally....last but not least, #7....All I have left to say is that, although the media has been making quite the fuss about Barack Obama...the reality is that it is 2007, and it is STILL not 100% (or even 75%, if you want to get technical) safe for a BLACK MAN to become president of this country!  And it sure ain't just because of the "president" title, either!

    But even worse, there has never even been anything but a middle-to-upper-class white man as president....and it is 2007, for crying out loud!

    Talk about a fact about this country that speaks volumes...

    And, that is all.  Glad to get that all out - Have a nice day .

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