Black. White. Forums

FX (ended 2006)

Why Another Stupid Racial Show?

  • Avatar of vickase

    vickase

    [1]Mar 16, 2006
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    This show is another blacks against whites show, these people look really stupid. It is so racists for anyone to do a show like this with all the controversy that goes on between black and white people, did we really need to cause more tension. Everyone understands what happened to the black race so many years back, but what about the Indians they still get treated like crap and no one is doing a show called Indians and Whites. Honestly if you took a white person out of there white trash hillbilly trailer park and put them on Rodeo Dr. they would be treated the same way you are trying to show that some black people are treated by some white people. It is ridiculous, in the real world today and in most neighborhoods people are people and nobody looks at the color of your skin, black people went through a lot to get rights but you know what so did women and women are still fighting. Why is it always a black or white thing because people who have nothing better to do than act like their life is so bad they have the money and power to act as if their life to get where they are should be voiced, well hello news flash EVERYONE did and still are , but aren't we all taught not to dwell on the past or fight a war that has already been fought, or even fight someone else's war, some black people scream racism and look how you treated our people, and in turn keep the racism going and have hatred for all white people but you know what I see no color and give every person the benefit of the doubt until that person and who they are do something to cause me pain Im not going to write their entire race off I just will not be a friend to that one person. So thank you Ice Cube and who ever that white guy is who thought it was a great idea to get ratings this way, and the next time their is a racial war be assured your show probably had something to do with it. Instead of saying can't we all just be friends it should be please t.v. show producers stop badly influencing our children and let us live in peace with ONE ANOTHER!!!!!!!!
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  • Avatar of SociologyNut

    SociologyNut

    [2]Mar 16, 2006
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    are you kidding me!? Racism is still an enormous problem in the world that we live. Yes! even in 2006! Its not like after the civil rights movement happened and the voting rights and civil rights acts passed in 65' all racism just packed its bags and walked out the door. If you watched the show you may realize that this is true. Even as a white male who lives a very priveldged life because of my race, social class, and gender must admit that I am advantaged by that. I would live another life with different constraints if my skin were simply black and to deny that fact is incredibally nieve. Shows like this give us an up front look at the persistance of racism and the effect that it is having on real individuals, through this upfront discussion we can have a better understanding of where we stand in the world and how we can as individuals can fight the inherant inequalities that exist in this society. Everyone from birth dosen't start on an equal starting line, and race staggers that starting line to a great extent. If you want proof, I have tons of journals and academic studies to back it up with. It sounds like somebody would benefit immensely by watching this show and realizing that racism is REAL and its engrained in both you and I. When we realize this we are better equipted to fight it, but it certainly takes acknowledgement first.
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  • Avatar of vickase

    vickase

    [3]Mar 17, 2006
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    Your privileged and white right? Like you said you have advantages well so do all races, not just white. I am a white female I grew up in what you would call the ghetto my family was very poor, I was the only white kid in an all black school even all the teachers were black and I was never treated badly by my teachers nor my peers and race was never an issue, my parents never acted any different towards any people of any color and because of that had many friends of many colors, your research is crap to me because I lived it. People teach their children about racism and of course it grows and causes very upset and angry people, what about all the other people that got treated like crap in the same era by the same so called "white people that migrated to the U.S.", before that whites were treated the same way blacks are saying they are treated today they were called poor people, oh wait they still are. It is people like you who do these stupid research data crap in areas of problem people that make the U.S. look like a giant cesspool of racial angry people that the rest of the world want nothing to do with, if we think this way about our own people how are we going to get along with other countries. Not only that, blacks and whites are so busy blaming each other for their problems that they are slowly becoming the minorities of this country, so yes all snobby privileged white people think you know but you don't you think your research is good but it is not you know nothing until you lived it and fought your way out of it like everyone else who lived it no matter your color, race, or religion. People who are in the same situations tend to flock together and fight together no matter the color of their skin and the people they fight against are the ones who are different from themselves which in turn also as you should know creates racism. And by the way if you are learning so much from this show (and yes I watched it) then you are not living in the real world and if you think that because the color of a persons skin makes them above or below another and that white people are more privileged look around times have changed and eventually when people stop teaching their children that people of color are bad including t.v. I believe we will finally be able to live peaceful among one another.
    Edited on 03/17/2006 11:27am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [4]Mar 18, 2006
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    Stop using the word "racism" for Gods sake. Everybody is sick and tired of the whining; the word has lost its meaning it is used so much. The frictions between races is not caused by differences in skin color, but differences in attitude and cultures. Whether these people are actors or not, it does not seem to be scripted and appears to illustrate a microcosm of society as a whole. The black family has already folded its arms and stopped trying to particiapte. Each situation has become less a learning experience for them and more about their desire to prove their view point about racism to be the only truth. Instead of helping the white family to intergrate into the black culture, they instead allow mistakes to be made, knowing full well they are being made at the time (at least in the black family's mind) and proceed to ridicule the white family afterwards. I.e. the b***h situation and the shopping spree at an authentic "afro-american" clothing store. The white family, on the other hand, like true bleeding hearts everywhere, spend the majority of their time apologizing for being white and trying desperately to be liked by the black family. They come off as less than courageous and embarassingly stupid in their attempts, especially white mom and daughter. The black family never asks the question "why?" do whites respond to blacks the way they do? Is there a problem in the black community with crime and a lack of desire for education, or is there not? Are black males and willing black women apt to form family units, or are they not? When someone asks these questions instead of making the usual excuses about mindless racism, that is when answers will finally come from a place of honest dialogue. Now, call me a racist and continue your whining. Thank you.
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  • Avatar of vickase

    vickase

    [5]Mar 20, 2006
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    There is no whining on my part, I was simply pointing out that the show is causing more racism, I am not racist and I believe most people are not. But shows like this definitely cause racial tension among our young people. Things happen in the U.S. everyday that are way more important than this, the argument is based on color and yes is way more than just skin color anymore, now it is a fight of separation just like in the beginning of it all, ours and theirs or theirs and ours, Whites have t.v. shows, blacks have t.v. shows, whites have music awards, blacks have music awards and so on, but the thing I have to say is, people keep doing it they themselves are causing the separation wether it be t.v. radio, news media, government, or people in our own neighborhood. It is up to us as a new generation to create a togetherness and not a separation. And by the way that show is so stupid, people who live for every word that is said on their t.v.'s and believe everything they see and hear from it are those who will suffer the most, and 90% percent of them are children, why teach children about separation when communities, teachers, churches, and parents are trying to teach a sense of togetherness?
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [6]Mar 20, 2006
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    I could not agree more.
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  • Avatar of mizmarymack

    mizmarymack

    [7]Mar 24, 2006
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    Well, I could not disagree more. Why is the subject matter of the program "stupid"? Your comments remind me of the white guy in this program, simply chalking up the experiences of others as "whining". What does he constantly say? "Let it go, move on..." Easy to say...especially when you're not impacted. Why do people today want to discount history and de-value the experiences of others...just because its not your experience? Saying race doesn't matter, doesn't come CLOSE to making it so.You'd better read Cornel West's book, "Race Matters". The primary factor in race bias, bigotry and prejudice is visual identity coupled with stereotypes, of course. So what's the solution? Until people begin to first, look at themselves and their own personal biases, this issue of race will never be resolved. Don't discount it....address it...realistically and honestly....because if you don't your just a part of the ongoing problem.

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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [8]Mar 27, 2006
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    mizmarymack,

    Valid points. I do think ,however, that stereotypes are too often more accuarte than not, regardless of race.

    For example,the apologetic liberal white mother who tries so hard to win the hearts of the black family. What about Nicolas? He is a classic black stereotype i.e. Spends every penny he has on jewelry, thug-like appearance, inarticulate.

    I don't think race is or ever has been the issue. It is, rather, a difference in culture that creates the divide. Race may be the cause, or simply a by
    -product of that divide. As long as people continue to throw the word "racist" at anything and everyone who has a different viewpoint than they do, the word will continue to lose it's true meaning.

    It will only be associated with the never ending excuses made by those who choose to focus on anything but they're own choices.

    Before you throw the term "racist" at me, (and that will likely be the classic reponse) don't assume that you know my race. After all, the term has been redefined to mean only a "white" individual can possibly be classified as a racist.
    If I were black, I would automatically be considered an "Uncle Tom" for holding such views.

    It would make NO difference at all whether my view was correct or not, only that it was politically incorrect.

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    minou_chere

    [9]Mar 28, 2006
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    I totally agree, I began watching Black.White with a silly optimism that maybe a reality show would finally show true interaction between two races that have had such animosity between them. Instead we get yet another show that paints the black family as intelligent, understanding and world-wise and the white family as naive, bigoted and ignorant.

    In todays world it's not PC to have a show where neither side is totally right. Does racism exist? Of course it does. Is it to the degree that some black people claim? No way.

    Of course the problem is that every show like this only serves to enhance racism for both sides. The blacks watching the show have a renewed sense of justification, they have their sense of what goes on in the world reinforced. The whites watching are angry at how they are portrayed and frustrated that race is still an issue at all, and feel like the negative stereotypes against black people are reinforced and any feelings of racism they do have are made stronger.

    When will people see that the only way to defeat racism is to take its power away, when people quit pulling the race card at every hurdle and blaming their race for why things aren't perfect that's when you'll stop seeing racism happen. As long as either race are constantly reminded of the color of the other person's skin, racism will continue. Why does it have to be because someone is black or white? Take the focus off the skin color and onto issues that can be changed, like ignorance and poverty!

    The sad thing is that most other minority groups have gotten that concept, this and their communties labor hard to present positive stereotypes rather than negative ones, it seems that the black community has been sadly remiss in this, they put their support behind leaders who keep them in the same position they were in 60 years ago and leaders that would speak out against continuing to use race as an excuse are quickly silenced. Unfortunately black.white is just another media outlet that is keeping racism alive.
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  • Avatar of minou_chere

    minou_chere

    [10]Mar 28, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 03/28/2006 2:57am
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [11]Mar 28, 2006
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    minou_chere,

    Your writing skills and ability to articulate your views are incredible. I don't say this because I happen to agree with you on most of your points, but because I find myself looking for your threads elsewhere.

    Hopefully, you'll continue to contribute. Alternate views are sorely needed here, but expect to be ridiculed by the PC police and classified as, of course, a racist.
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  • Avatar of mizmarymack

    mizmarymack

    [12]Mar 29, 2006
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    Hey GGordonKitty,

    I appreciate your thoughtful feedback. Again, if we don't discuss the issues calmly, how can we ever resolve them? I hear you in regard to issues of culture...but I see them more as issues of class. To label you a "racist", which so many people do these days to get people to backoff of their opinions, is simply too easy. Racism is systematic institutionalized discrimination, you know that. America has again, taken a word and loaded it improperly to describe a variety of ills that are far from being remedied! Although we may not want to admit it, we're all bigoted to some degree and we prejudge people on a daily basis. Its simply human nature to be more comfortable with those like US. Furthermore,its engrained in our society...we judge people based on what we SEE initially...and what we have programmed into our heads about what we are seeing. Let's remove race from the discussion for a moment and use an overweight person as an example. What the first thing you think? That person is lazy, and must eat ALL OF THE TIME, right? But the person could have a thyroid condition or some other medical malady that causes their girth. How is that different when you throw race on the table? I have to disagree with you on your point about stereotypes being close to correct. I don't know how old you are, but those of us that have grown up in this post WWII American TV age have been socialized by TV images/characters. Personally, I don't know any people who fit into the so-called racial stereotypes, but that's my life and my experiences.I'm very fortunate to live & work in a very diverse environment, but at the same time, I am very in tune with my identity and my history. I KNOW that I stand on the shoulders of many who came before me, so I walk with my head high EVERYDAY! I owe it to my ancestors to be the best person I can be! I don't think that Black kid on the show is even close to being a real "thug". He is trying to emulate today's rap culture that is a by-product of prison culture. Most of these little suburban kids (and he is one) don't even understand where the "fads" come from and to me, its so sad. He has a lot of growing to do. I disagree with the person who said this program or programs like this "cause" racial disparity. If this program does nothing but make people think and discuss the issues, then its a success. If you don't want to discuss the issues and pretend that they don't exist, what good will that do? Ignorance is not bliss, by any stretch!

    Thanks for the exchange GGKitty! Peace!

    From MizMary Mack-Real Strong & Black!!
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  • Avatar of faitho113

    faitho113

    [13]Mar 29, 2006
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    I too have a degree in Sociology, I'm also a school counselor whom deals with racial issues everday. I have to agree that racism is still an enourmous issue. I do believe it is my job to help bridge this gap and this tv show, even with its' imperfections, will help create great discussion that will hopefully break down barriers. At the very least this tv show gets people to think about and evaluate racism. My hope is that my community becomes more aware and can move forward in a more positive direction.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [14]Mar 29, 2006
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    MMMack,

    Your experiences with race is shared by a vast number of people in this nation. It's a shame that the national media only reports the politically correct stories on this subject. This happens at the expense of others who have come to valid conclusions about race relations, but are ignored. This does nothing to further a dialogue and causes even deeper divisions between different ethnic groups.

    A perfect example was in tonight's episode. Bruno's views about race are not only being ignored, but minimized because of its politically unpopular platform. No one seems to ask the question that would begin a real dialogue, if not solve the racial problem with some ongoing effort."Why do other races perceive my race in a negative way?"

    This, of course would require soul searching instead of blaming. That's why the question has not been, nor ever will asked.

    My comments about stereotypes being sometimes accurate can best be explained by a statement Chris Rock made recently during one of his comic performances, "If you want to hide money from a black thief, hide it in a book. Books are like Kryptonite to a black person."

    Obviously, Rock is black and can make that joke without political fallout, but he recognizes an unfortuneate truth within his own culture. Hence, the stereotype comes from a place with at least a grain of truth to it. One only has to look at young blacks and their perception that succeeding in school, going to college, and working hard is percieved as "acting white".

    Where are the so called black leaders like Jackson, Sharpton and others on this issue? One might conclude that the black community itself doesn't want to hear it or take responsibility for it. If reponsible African Americans in the community would insist that the problem should be solved from within, there would be no need for antagonists like Jackson or Farracon.

    Hopefully,I've explained myself and my views regarding stereotypes more thoroughly with this post.

    I look forward to hearing more of your ideas here. Have a good one.
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  • Avatar of minou_chere

    minou_chere

    [15]Mar 29, 2006
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    GGordonKitty,

    Thank you for your discourse, it's a nice change to see someone who can have a discussion with intelligent thought rather than resorting to using name calling and making a judgment of other's belief systems as seems to so often be the case in online forums.

    I do agree with most of what you've said above, I tend to think of my own biases less as racist and more as anti-ignorance, which is part of the reason I find the white family on black.white so annoying. (Really, couldn't they have found a white family who could articulate their views and not come across as weak and naive?)

    My point about the steretypes could perhaps be about my background, growing up in an area of the south that was very socially divided, the blacks I came in contact with were very often caricatures of these stereotypes. This does tend to leave a tendancy to at least be wary of blacks, or at least young black men who tend to portray a certain image with their manner of dress or speaking. Does that make me racist or cautious?

    When you see a culture that seems to applaud violence and to dismiss crimes as a necessary evil or even as just a way of life, I think most intelligent people would avoid others who make clear their association with that culture in such an obvious way. Does that mean every black suburbonite is a "thug" because he wears lots of jewelry and baggy pants? Of course not, but why would I waste my time trying to differentiate between a copycat and the real thing?

    Fear is obviously at the heart of any type of racism, but black.white is trying to say that the fear is out of difference rather than a fear of safety, and that our desire to see articulate, well dressed blacks is a desire to assimilate them into white culture. Of course most whites feel more comfortable around black people who dress and talk like them, but I know I have the same disdain for whites who don't speak or dress properly, it really has nothing to do with the color of their skin and more to do with how they are able to communicate with me.

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  • Avatar of Ellbee

    Ellbee

    [16]Mar 30, 2006
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    vickase wrote:
    Honestly if you took a white person out of there white trash hillbilly trailer park and put them on Rodeo Dr. they would be treated the same way you are trying to show that some black people are treated by some white people.


    Yeah, but if you cleaned that white trash up - gave them a shower and shave and put them in some fashionable clothing - I'll betcha they would've gotten a JOB APPLICATION from that store that wouldn't give one to any of the black women!
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [17]Mar 30, 2006
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    mchere,

    Along with your threads, there is one other individual I look forward to reading. That's mismarymack. Find her if you can. She's quite articulate has has valid input regarding these subjects.

    You are so right on your take regarding the white family. Especially the females. They are so weak and naive, they punctuate perfectly the stereotype of the white liberal mindset, i.e. "run to the nearest hilltop and hold a candlelight vigil to solve any serious problem". That's only after they've shed tears because someone might actually not like them.

    I will say, however, that they are trying diligently to understand black culture. That is more than I can say for the black family who has hi-jacked the show to prove their own point of view to be the only valid one. They have put NO effort into trying to understand white culture. More importantly, they have not tried to understand why people of other cultures might perceive blacks in a negative way. Would that not be the most important question to be asked if one claims unfair treatment by another race?

    Your point about "fear" playing a part white America's alleged treatment of black culture is also true. I do think, however, that white America fears the law more than the black culture itself. Although blacks constitute only twelve percent of the total U.S. population, this ethnic group is responsible for almost seventy percent of all crimes committed in the nation. While one could conclude based on this statistic that there is less regard for the law within some segments of the black community, blacks are more protected than whites where perceived injustices between races are concerned. Hate crimes are a good example here. This crime classification has only been used, so far, to prosecute white criminals.

    No doubt, any criminal of any race should be prosecuted, but let's drop the "hate" out of crime laws if it applies to one race and infers that another ethnic group is incapable of the same motivation for committing the same crime.

    Although this information and these stats are true and can be found in any National Crime Statistic forum, it will still be offensive to some. That's part of the problem though, isn't it? We've all reached the point that even the truth offends us while we seek to rewrite it rather than address it.

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  • Avatar of Ellbee

    Ellbee

    [18]Mar 30, 2006
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    GGordonKitty wrote:
    That is more than I can say for the black family who has hi-jacked the show to prove their own point of view to be the only valid one. They have put NO effort into trying to understand white culture. More importantly, they have not tried to understand why people of other cultures might perceive blacks in a negative way.


    I'm sure blacks already understand white culture if they live in America they do. American culture IS white culture. I don't think The Sparks have hi-jacked the show, rather the producers try to make it more interesting by showcasing the more controversial issues. To me, The Sparks just seem exasperated with the whole Bruno "not getting it" and dealing with Carmen's inappropriate "compliments". And how could blacks NOT know why other cultures perceive them in a negative way? They're reminded on a regular basis (biased news reporting, etc.). If Winona Ryder steals clothing, the poor girl needs help. If Queen Latifah does it, ALL blacks are theives.

    GGordonKitty wrote:
    Although blacks constitute only twelve percent of the total U.S. population, this ethnic group is responsible for almost seventy percent of all crimes committed in the nation.


    This should be changed to read that this ethnic group is PROSECUTED for almost seventy percent of all crimes committed in this nation. Lack of access to expensive lawyers and local government connections certainly account for a lot of who goes to ccurt and who gets a slap on the wrist (Michael Jackson and O.J. are black but could afford the best attorneys and are as free as birds as we speak). Minorities certainly don't bring illegal drugs into this country yet the drugs keep coming. You'll get far more jail time for selling a thumbnail full of crack ($15) than for a half pound of cocaine (who do YOU think is selling and/or using the cheaper stuff?). See the link below for more info on that topic:

    http://www.hartfordinfo.org/issues/documents/crime/htfd_courant_022405.asp)

    And as for hate crimes, gays seem to be the victims of far more hate crimes lately than blacks and they come in ALL colors. I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water on this one.

    Though I can see both sides of the issue while watching this show, I just wish people would be more open minded about things they know nothing about. It's silly for a white person to try to dismiss racism without truly living as a person of color (permanently, not for a few weeks, with all the baggage that entails) and just as silly for a black person to blame society for all their troubles when so many opportunities exist today.
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  • Avatar of GGordonKitty

    GGordonKitty

    [19]Mar 30, 2006
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    Hello Ellbe,

    Consider these two items:

    1) The white female did not return to the store (as a white female)to submit a job application. Have you considered the possibility that the store was simply not hiring at the time?

    2) If race was the deciding factor in the store's rejection of her, then why are we so hesitant to question the black community as a whole about what role it plays in those decisions? Does that community play no role at all in the image they might portray? (The black girl next to Rose was slouched over and chewing gum with her mouth open. What image did that portray and did it help Rose?)

    a)What had the store manager's experiences with blacks been leading up to that moment. Were they mostly positive or negative? We don't hesitate to question the black experience regarding whites, but we seldom see the reverse.

    b)Is there anything within the black community that could be done to improve race relations? We are quick to assume that it is solely white America that must expend the energy to understand the black perspective, but once again, the reverse is seldom true.
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    Ellbee

    [20]Mar 30, 2006
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    GGordonKitty wrote:
    Hello Ellbe,

    Consider these two items:

    1) The white female did not return to the store (as a white female)to submit a job application. Have you considered the possibility that the store was simply not hiring at the time?

    2) If race was the deciding factor in the store's rejection of her, then why are we so hesitant to question the black community as a whole about what role it plays in those decisions? Does that community play no role at all in the image they might portray? (The black girl next to Rose was slouched over and chewing gum with her mouth open. What image did that portray and did it help Rose?)

    a)What had the store manager's experiences with blacks been leading up to that moment. Were they mostly positive or negative? We don't hesitate to question the black experience regarding whites, but we seldom see the reverse.

    b)Is there anything within the black community that could be done to improve race relations? We are quick to assume that it is solely white America that must expend the energy to understand the black perspective, but once again, the reverse is seldom true.


    Hello GGordon Kitty,

    My response:

    1) Generally if a store is not hiring, they say they are not hiring immediately. It's also pretty unlikely that they ran out of applications, don't you think? I've also seen a few news shows where a black person with the same or better credentials than a white person applies for an apartment and gets the boot while the white one gets the ok. They should have had Rose go back the next day for an application. Too bad they didn't follow through with it. It would have made my case one way or another.

    2a) Why wouldn't the applicant's qualifications and appearance be the ONLY deciding factors? The clerk's experiences with any black other than the one applying for the job should not be a factor at all. By your reasoning, if your great great grandfather enslaved my great great grandfather, then I should distrust all whites because of what your grandpa did, even though it had nothing to do with you personally. Isn't that what whites generally say when the issue of slavery is brought up? I didn't do it - it wasn't me! Shouldn't I judge you based on how YOU treat me? Not how some other white person treated me?

    Even if the black girl was slouching and chewing gum, SHE wasn't the one asking for an application so what difference would that make?

    2b) It seems as if you're saying that the clerk's hesitance in giving the black woman an application was the black woman's fault somehow. Again, by your logic, since the majority of serial killers are white, then I should not ever hire a white person until I am sure that the one who comes into my store for an application PROVES himself not to be a serial killer. My first impression of a friendly white man coming into my store would not be that he is a murderer, but we assume that the black woman who came into the clothing store legitimately looking for a job should not be trusted because of what some OTHER black person may have done to the clerk? Now that's a double standard.

    Ok - I'm done. Any rebuttal?
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