Bleach Forums

TV Tokyo (ended 2012)

Manga Discussion (Spoilers up to current chapter in Japan)

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    titanmaniac05

    [10381]Mar 4, 2013
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    I was actually thinking along those lines. I mean his Getsuga concentrated into a piercing arrow barrage could be damaging, but I think the most important aspect would be the Quincy ability to control reishi. It might be the key to getting back the other Captain's bankais and countering the power some of the more powerful Quincies have. Not to mention, since they have shown that they can still a bankai once they know about it and/or understand it, it's probably for the best that he hasn't gotten Zangetsu fixed yet. So I guess once he learns the truth, it's likely that Uryu and his father might be able to help train him or awaken his Quincy powers.


    Also I'm guessing that Ichigo's mother is the reason that Ryuken and Isshin are on decent terms considering the whole Shinigami/Quincy issue. I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if Ryuken was related to her in some way. I'm also starting to think that Isshin abandoning his powers may have had something to do with one of Urahara's special gigais so he could live peacefully with Masaki as opposed to my initial thought of it having to do with the Final Getsuga...Although it could be both.

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  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [10382]Mar 5, 2013
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    Judging by the fact that he even has powers I would assume Urahara's Special Gigai. I never thought about the Final Getsuga until you just now mentioned it. I would expect that if he had used it, then Urahara or perhaps Ryuken had given him rietsu to regain his power similar to Ichigo during the last Arc.

    I am very interested in seeing Ichigo using his 'bow' and obliterating everything using Getsuga Tenshou Arrows. If Uryu can shoot 1000+, imagine the onslaught Ichigo would cause with just 100?
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    MatejDijanin

    [10383]Mar 5, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    Judging by the fact that he even has powers I would assume Urahara's Special Gigai. I never thought about the Final Getsuga until you just now mentioned it. I would expect that if he had used it, then Urahara or perhaps Ryuken had given him rietsu to regain his power similar to Ichigo during the last Arc.

    I am very interested in seeing Ichigo using his 'bow' and obliterating everything using Getsuga Tenshou Arrows. If Uryu can shoot 1000+, imagine the onslaught Ichigo would cause with just 100?


    I like this development but I would prefer if he stayed with a sword... No real reason other than my preference for swords over bows
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    invisiblish

    [10384]Mar 6, 2013
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    MatejDijanin wrote:
    invisiblish wrote:
    Judging by the fact that he even has powers I would assume Urahara's Special Gigai. I never thought about the Final Getsuga until you just now mentioned it. I would expect that if he had used it, then Urahara or perhaps Ryuken had given him rietsu to regain his power similar to Ichigo during the last Arc. I am very interested in seeing Ichigo using his 'bow' and obliterating everything using Getsuga Tenshou Arrows. If Uryu can shoot 1000+, imagine the onslaught Ichigo would cause with just 100?
    I like this development but I would prefer if he stayed with a sword... No real reason other than my preference for swords over bows
    Agreed! I'm actually very disappointed with the last bow Uryu had. Wasn't really my think, besides the swords are awesome comparatively. I wonder if Ichigo could improve his speed using Shunpo and the Quincy version together? Not that he needs more speed but it would be interesting how far he can take his Quicny-Shinigami traits and especially mixing them.



    Well the new chapter is up and has confirmed some of the basic theories out there: Isshin was the 10th Division Captain (Hitsugaya was his 3rd while Matsumoto was his 2nd). He was also Captain after Aizen, Gin, and Tousen all assumed their positions of the 5th, 3rd, and 9th Captain seats respectively. What still remains to be seen is if Yourichi was still Captain of the 2nd. It can be assumed that he has been a Captain during the the TBTP Arc (Love, Shinji, Urahara and co.).


    We've also confirmed that Isshin is a Shiba not a Kurosaki. Perhaps Kurosaki is Masaki's last name? This would explain the Kaien resemblance. I do wonder if Isshin is the elder sibling or father of Kaien, Kukaku, and Ganju. Isshin's relation to them also brings into question what happened to the Shiba family, did his actions lead to their fall or did Kaien's death? Perhaps both?


    Finally, it seems to be likely that Masaki's death is a direct result of Aizen's experiments. Using Hollows to lure out Shinji's group and/or Urahara's group is quite the plan.

    Edited on 03/06/2013 7:16am
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  • Avatar of titanmaniac05

    titanmaniac05

    [10385]Mar 6, 2013
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    Even if Ichigo gets a bow, he doesn't necessarily have to lose his zanpakuto. Both that Juha (the leader guy. I forgot how to spell his name) guy and that guy they fought in Hueco Mundo had some type of sword that they used in conjunction with their Quincy powers. It's likely he could go that route.


    Also Yoruichi left around the same time Urahara and company was "banished" so she likely wasn't around during this particular flashback since Aizen, Gin and Kaname being captains means this happened after she saved them but was around when he was probably still a Captain during the TBTP arc.


    And I don't remember, but did they ever mention anything about the Shiba house becoming disgraced or something? Because if so, Isshin probably had a hand in that too because of this Quincy and Shinigami abandonment business.

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    Fishbulb13

    [10386]Mar 6, 2013
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    I thought they became disgraced because Kaien was absorbed by a hollow, but I could be mistaken. Whoever called that, and whoever called Isshin being the former Squad 10 captain get 100 internets apiece.

    I'm a little worried about what Ichigo's new powers are going to be like. It seems like every time Ichigo gets a power upgrade, it's replaced by something else. He becomes a shinigami, then undergoes hollowfication. He learns bankai, but that's supplanted by learning how to control his hollow transformation, which is marginalized by him going full on vasto lorde. And that gets replaced by learning the "final" getsuga, which gets replaced (out of necessity) by his fullbring. And now all of those abilities are apparently going to be overshadowed by whatever Quincy abilities Ichigo is about to learn. It's even worse than DBZ's Kamehamea > Kaio Ken > Genki Dama > Super Saiyan > SSJ2 > SSJ3 progression.
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    ghost_face99

    [10387]Mar 6, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    Perhaps Kurosaki is Masaki's last name?


    This was already confirmed last chapter when Masaki introduced herself to a wounded Isshin.
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    MatejDijanin

    [10388]Mar 6, 2013
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    Fishbulb13 wrote:
    I thought they became disgraced because Kaien was absorbed by a hollow, but I could be mistaken. Whoever called that, and whoever called Isshin being the former Squad 10 captain get 100 internets apiece.

    I'm a little worried about what Ichigo's new powers are going to be like. It seems like every time Ichigo gets a power upgrade, it's replaced by something else. He becomes a shinigami, then undergoes hollowfication. He learns bankai, but that's supplanted by learning how to control his hollow transformation, which is marginalized by him going full on vasto lorde. And that gets replaced by learning the "final" getsuga, which gets replaced (out of necessity) by his fullbring. And now all of those abilities are apparently going to be overshadowed by whatever Quincy abilities Ichigo is about to learn. It's even worse than DBZ's Kamehamea > Kaio Ken > Genki Dama > Super Saiyan > SSJ2 > SSJ3 progression.


    I called it My opinion is that it won't be a replaccement of powers.. I rather think that it will be a combination of them since it's the final battle and the conclusion of the storyline of bleach so it's logical to assume that Kubo will try to incorporate all of the powers so that Ichigo and the entire series goes out with a bang since based on the pacing of the story I'm pretty sure that Bleach will end within a year(maybe even less)..

    My only hope for the conclusion is that there will be a time skip to show what happened after the end of the battle..
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    invisiblish

    [10389]Mar 7, 2013
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    I'd like to see another battle with Aizen... sad to say but I really miss him as a bad guy. Juha is doing a damn good job compared to Ginjo.

    Good call, I totally missed her saying first and last name in the last chapter. Heh... So much for Ichigo being a cousin to Uryu. Distant relative is still probable...

    I believe that Byakuya mentions the Shiba clan's fall when he attacks Ganju way back during the Soul Society arc. I think that Kaien mentions trying to restore his family's name, the reason he joined the 13 Squads in the first place. I could be mistaken (though an earlier mistake seems to be right on: Masaki was capable of seeing apparitions and ghosts) but I was quite sure he mentioned it to Rukia, that or Kukaku mentions it...

    This brings up a new question though... since they are related, why didn't Kukaku react to Ichigo? Did she know Isshin had a son that resembled Kaien so much? I guess it's fair to say that Yoruichi may have used this fact to sway her help. It's also possible that Ganju was too young to remember his brother fairly well... just a lot of questions that have very little meaning I 'spose.
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    Fishbulb13

    [10390]Mar 8, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    I'd like to see another battle with Aizen... sad to say but I really miss him as a bad guy. Juha is doing a damn good job compared to Ginjo.

    Good call, I totally missed her saying first and last name in the last chapter. Heh... So much for Ichigo being a cousin to Uryu. Distant relative is still probable...

    I believe that Byakuya mentions the Shiba clan's fall when he attacks Ganju way back during the Soul Society arc. I think that Kaien mentions trying to restore his family's name, the reason he joined the 13 Squads in the first place. I could be mistaken (though an earlier mistake seems to be right on: Masaki was capable of seeing apparitions and ghosts) but I was quite sure he mentioned it to Rukia, that or Kukaku mentions it...

    This brings up a new question though... since they are related, why didn't Kukaku react to Ichigo? Did she know Isshin had a son that resembled Kaien so much? I guess it's fair to say that Yoruichi may have used this fact to sway her help. It's also possible that Ganju was too young to remember his brother fairly well... just a lot of questions that have very little meaning I 'spose.


    Presumably, there will be some sort of resolution for that. After all, Kukaku is training Gangnam and the rest of the Fullbringers, so it would make sense that they will factor into the final battle with Fuhrer Juhabach. I honestly can't remember where it was mentioned that the Shiba clan was disgraced. I nominate someone to reread the early chapters (Not it.).
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    invisiblish

    [10391]Mar 9, 2013
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    As I have yet to actually read them, damn my anime based knowledge, I'll accept the responsibility. Forgive me if I come back with stupid ideas like Orihime's power is based somewhat on Quincy techniques. It will be some foolish idea of mine that creates all of these 'theories'.
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    MatejDijanin

    [10392]Mar 11, 2013
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    Fishbulb13 wrote:
    invisiblish wrote:
    I'd like to see another battle with Aizen... sad to say but I really miss him as a bad guy. Juha is doing a damn good job compared to Ginjo.

    Good call, I totally missed her saying first and last name in the last chapter. Heh... So much for Ichigo being a cousin to Uryu. Distant relative is still probable...

    I believe that Byakuya mentions the Shiba clan's fall when he attacks Ganju way back during the Soul Society arc. I think that Kaien mentions trying to restore his family's name, the reason he joined the 13 Squads in the first place. I could be mistaken (though an earlier mistake seems to be right on: Masaki was capable of seeing apparitions and ghosts) but I was quite sure he mentioned it to Rukia, that or Kukaku mentions it...

    This brings up a new question though... since they are related, why didn't Kukaku react to Ichigo? Did she know Isshin had a son that resembled Kaien so much? I guess it's fair to say that Yoruichi may have used this fact to sway her help. It's also possible that Ganju was too young to remember his brother fairly well... just a lot of questions that have very little meaning I 'spose.


    Presumably, there will be some sort of resolution for that. After all, Kukaku is training Gangnam and the rest of the Fullbringers, so it would make sense that they will factor into the final battle with Fuhrer Juhabach. I honestly can't remember where it was mentioned that the Shiba clan was disgraced. I nominate someone to reread the early chapters (Not it.).


    Byakuya says it when he encounters Ganju on the bridge to senzakyu(hope I spelled it correctly)... He also added that since Ganju is a member of the Shiba family that he(byakuya) is disrespectful for not going full power aganst ganju.. it still is weird to me that only 2 people so far in the series commented on ichigo's likeness to kaien, while Ganju and Kuukaku did not
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    invisiblish

    [10393]Mar 11, 2013
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    That gives me reason to think that Kaien was a little removed from the other 2. I thought that Kukaku mentioned something to Ganju when training Ichigo for the cannon. I'll look for it at some point...
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    Fishbulb13

    [10394]Mar 13, 2013
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    New chapter is up.

    Is it just me, or does that mysterious hollow that we have to wait two weeks to find out what it is look an awful lot like Ichigo's full vasto lorde state?

    So, Ryuuken and Masaki were arranged to be married, and she fell in love with Isshin. Should have seen that coming. On the other hand, now we've met Ishida's grandmother. I can sort of see where he gets his dour personality from.
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    MatejDijanin

    [10395]Mar 13, 2013
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    Fishbulb13 wrote:
    New chapter is up. Is it just me, or does that mysterious hollow that we have to wait two weeks to find out what it is look an awful lot like Ichigo's full vasto lorde state?
    It's not just you.. Hell, I'm certain that Isshin or masaki or both were marked in some way by that hollow and that transfered somehow on to ichigo
    Fishbulb13 wrote:
    , Ryuuken and Masaki were arranged to be married, and she fell in love with Isshin. Should have seen that coming. On the other hand, now we've met Ishida's grandmother. I can sort of see where he gets his dour personality from.
    I can see now why Ryuken is the way he is.. But he(Uryuu) does look a lot like his grandmother Hmm.. I wonder will the fact that Ichigo is the son of a pure quincy and a pure shinigami have an impact...

    Edited on 03/13/2013 8:04am
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    titanmaniac05

    [10396]Mar 14, 2013
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    Fishbulb13 wrote:
    New chapter is up. Is it just me, or does that mysterious hollow that we have to wait two weeks to find out what it is look an awful lot like Ichigo's full vasto lorde state? So, Ryuuken and Masaki were arranged to be married, and she fell in love with Isshin. Should have seen that coming. On the other hand, now we've met Ishida's grandmother. I can sort of see where he gets his dour personality from.


    Yeah it was definitely noticeably similar to his vasto lorde. Like the guy mentioned below, it's likely the hollow that tainted Masaki in some way. Only adding the the mixed up-ness that is Ichigo Kurosaki. I mean at this point, he pretty much has been every canon spiritual being in the series. His spiritual body must be a cellular mess. I guess a vasto lorde would force a quincy/shinigami team up to forge some good ol' forbidden love.


    As for Ichigo looking like Kaien. It's likely that Ganju and Kukaku noticed but just didn't want to make a big deal out of it because they probably figured there are plenty of people who look alike in the world and they more than likely didn't know he was Isshin's son or that Isshin had a son since he abandoned his position before Ichigo was born. It was probably more for the readers anyway to kind of foreshadow the current arc and Isshin's backstory.


    And from what little we've seen, Uryu's grandmother and grandfather are basically night and day in comparison of personality. I guess opposites really do attract.

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    MatejDijanin

    [10397]Mar 14, 2013
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    titanmaniac05 wrote:


    Fishbulb13 wrote:
    New chapter is up. Is it just me, or does that mysterious hollow that we have to wait two weeks to find out what it is look an awful lot like Ichigo's full vasto lorde state? So, Ryuuken and Masaki were arranged to be married, and she fell in love with Isshin. Should have seen that coming. On the other hand, now we've met Ishida's grandmother. I can sort of see where he gets his dour personality from.


    Yeah it was definitely noticeably similar to his vasto lorde. Like the guy mentioned below, it's likely the hollow that tainted Masaki in some way. Only adding the the mixed up-ness that is Ichigo Kurosaki. I mean at this point, he pretty much has been every canon spiritual being in the series. His spiritual body must be a cellular mess. I guess a vasto lorde would force a quincy/shinigami team up to forge some good ol' forbidden love.


    As for Ichigo looking like Kaien. It's likely that Ganju and Kukaku noticed but just didn't want to make a big deal out of it because they probably figured there are plenty of people who look alike in the world and they more than likely didn't know he was Isshin's son or that Isshin had a son since he abandoned his position before Ichigo was born. It was probably more for the readers anyway to kind of foreshadow the current arc and Isshin's backstory.


    And from what little we've seen, Uryu's grandmother and grandfather are basically night and day in comparison of personality. I guess opposites really do attract.



    Well that's how it goes in the real world.. They bounce off each other... Complete themselves so to speak.. Uryuu's grandmother is a to the point no holds barred kind of a person, and his grandfather is a mild mannered and relaxed person.. She is Lois Lane to his Clark Kent if you will... (had to make a superman reference )

    Edited on 03/14/2013 3:16pm
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    invisiblish

    [10398]Mar 20, 2013
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    I wonder if we will see any of the Quincy decimation during this blast from the past. Why did Masaki and Ryuken survive? Is Uryu's mother Katagiri or Masaki? Yes I'm still rambling about Ichigo and Uryu being brothers.

    On an unrelated note... I'm looking to see if there is any mention of exactly when Urahara, Yoruichi, and Tessai left Soul Society. I found that Urahara was exiled because of the Gigai he made and eventually lent to Rukia. My overall reasoning is this: Urahara had to have a reason to meet and implant the Hougyoku into Rukia. Thus he couldn't possibly have left before she joined the Gotei 13. Unless he waited until Ichigo took her powers, which wouldn't explain why Aizen was looking for her in the first place.

    It could be that Urahara left sometime after Isshin. Isshin could be the reason Urahara was exiled: following the theory that Urahara was exiled for a Gigai he created that Isshin probably used to become human and be with Masaki.
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    MatejDijanin

    [10399]Mar 21, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    I wonder if we will see any of the Quincy decimation during this blast from the past. Why did Masaki and Ryuken survive? Is Uryu's mother Katagiri or Masaki? Yes I'm still rambling about Ichigo and Uryu being brothers. On an unrelated note... I'm looking to see if there is any mention of exactly when Urahara, Yoruichi, and Tessai left Soul Society. I found that Urahara was exiled because of the Gigai he made and eventually lent to Rukia. My overall reasoning is this: Urahara had to have a reason to meet and implant the Hougyoku into Rukia. Thus he couldn't possibly have left before she joined the Gotei 13. Unless he waited until Ichigo took her powers, which wouldn't explain why Aizen was looking for her in the first place. It could be that Urahara left sometime after Isshin. Isshin could be the reason Urahara was exiled: following the theory that Urahara was exiled for a Gigai he created that Isshin probably used to become human and be with Masaki.



    He definetely left after Isshin.. and urahara and co. left soul society during the ''turn back the pendulum'' arc, which is to say around 110 years prior to the current events...



    And he was exiled because of the hollowification of Hirako Shinji and the rest of vaizards from what I remember...

    Edited on 03/21/2013 3:37pm
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    invisiblish

    [10400]Mar 22, 2013
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    So I went back and was reading Aizen's confessions to Ichigo (just before getting the Hogyoku and leaving Soul Society) and he refers to Urahara as being exiled for his Gigai creation (specifically non-spiritual matter material bodies he created).

    Later when Isshin defeats the Grandfisher Arrancar he talks to Urahara about never finding the Vaizard group.

    Sadly I haven't been able to read the TBTP Arc, only watch it in the Anime, assuming it is faithful to the Manga:

    Tessai, the 8 Arrancar, and Urahara all leave at the very end. Yoruichi stays behind, telling Tessai that she can escape when she feels like it. This was the day after he saved Hirako and co. from Aizen and was accused of experimenting on them.

    With all of that we know that Isshin left sometime after this, what's more is that he left at max 40 years ago. Assuming that Masaki was young (14-15) and that Ichigo was born when she was in her 20s or 30s and is now 18 (at most, he started at 15 and some timeskips for the Xcution and current Quincy Arc) we get 10/20+18 for a max of 38. And that is assuming that he left Soul Society before Ichigo was born. It's entirely possible that he was still in Soul Society the day Masaki died, hence his regrets.
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