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TV Tokyo (ended 2012)

Would You Consider Byakuya As The First Main Antaganist

Would You?

  • Avatar of anti4kids2000

    anti4kids2000

    [1]Sep 10, 2009
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    Would you consider Byakuya as the FIRST main antagnist of the series? I would say yes.

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    KingofIPirates

    [2]Sep 10, 2009
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    I suppose..
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    Fishbulb13

    [3]Sep 10, 2009
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    Maybe.
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    peaceknuckle

    [4]Sep 10, 2009
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    Grand Fisher probably. He was in around 5 manga chapters, the subject of an OVA, and has more appearances later in the series. The fact that he killed Ichigo's mom makes him a worthy antagOnist. That event has pretty much set the tone for the series, with the tragic single or no parent syndrome that the Karakura crew seems to suffer from.
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    anti4kids2000

    [5]Sep 10, 2009
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    peaceknuckle wrote:
    Grand Fisher probably. He was in around 5 manga chapters, the subject of an OVA, and has more appearances later in the series. The fact that he killed Ichigo's mom makes him a worthy antagOnist. That event has pretty much set the tone for the series, with the tragic single or no parent syndrome that the Karakura crew seems to suffer from.
    Oh crap, my bad. I mispelled Antagonist. You do have a point with the Grand Fisher being the first main antagonist.
    Edited on 09/10/2009 7:07pm
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [6]Sep 10, 2009
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    You can always edit it.
    Edited on 09/10/2009 7:49pm
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    SsriTelQuessir

    [7]Sep 11, 2009
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    Yeah, that sounds reasonable. There was more back story on Byakuya and he was a presense in the storyline as an antagonist through his defeat.
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    S-Shield

    [8]Sep 11, 2009
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    I think that is true. Byakuya was the first "bad guy" who beat Ichigo, whom Ichigo swore to defeat and trained and fought for a good part of the series to get at. Antagonist is a good word, since he's not really a "bad guy" at all, he's just on the opposite side of the hero.

    Grand Fisher could work, but Ichigo stumbles on him and beats him in one sitting. His history with Ichigo almost makes him like the criminal who shot Batman's parents. Sure he's important, but I wouldn't call him Batman's first enemy.

    Maybe if Ichigo had fought Grand Fisher on his return, I'd give it to him. Byakuya was the first person who's defeat was a long-term goal for Ichigo.

    It's like how Toriyama said that Piccolo was the first real villain in Dragonball. And he meets the same requirements I spelled out above.

    Edited on 09/11/2009 3:45pm
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    dancingbeatle

    [9]Sep 15, 2009
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    I would have to say yes, but he was unknownly. Considering from the point of view of Soul Society Ichigo and his friends were in the wrong for trying to save Rukia. Though we later find out that the real villian is Aizen.
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    Ranemoraken

    [10]Sep 15, 2009
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    S-Shield wrote:

    I think that is true. Byakuya was the first "bad guy" who beat Ichigo, whom Ichigo swore to defeat and trained and fought for a good part of the series to get at. Antagonist is a good word, since he's not really a "bad guy" at all, he's just on the opposite side of the hero.

    Grand Fisher could work, but Ichigo stumbles on him and beats him in one sitting. His history with Ichigo almost makes him like the criminal who shot Batman's parents. Sure he's important, but I wouldn't call him Batman's first enemy.

    Maybe if Ichigo had fought Grand Fisher on his return, I'd give it to him. Byakuya was the first person who's defeat was a long-term goal for Ichigo.

    It's like how Toriyama said that Piccolo was the first real villain in Dragonball. And he meets the same requirements I spelled out above.

    By that standard, the guy who killed Batman's parents was Bruce Wayne's first enemy. However, because Batman didn't exist yet, it wasn't the "icon's" first villain. One might say that Ichigo didn't don his superhero disguise until after Urahara's training.
    Edited on 09/15/2009 10:41am
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  • Avatar of peaceknuckle

    peaceknuckle

    [11]Sep 15, 2009
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    S-Shield wrote:

    I Byakuya was the first person who's defeat was a long-term goal for Ichigo.

    Watch the "Memories in the Rain" episodes again. Ichigo makes some kind of vow to defeat Grand Fisher, otherwise he won't be able to look at his mother again or something along those lines. If avenging your mothers murder doesn't qualify as a long term goal, then I don't know what would. If not for his mothers death, Ichigo wouldn't be the character he is. Grand Fisher has had a much greater impact on Ichigo's life than Byakuya ever will. We still haven't seen the resolution of the matter, since he doesn't know about his father yet.

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    titanmaniac05

    [12]Sep 17, 2009
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    peaceknuckle wrote:
    S-Shield wrote:

    I Byakuya was the first person who's defeat was a long-term goal for Ichigo.

    Watch the "Memories in the Rain" episodes again. Ichigo makes some kind of vow to defeat Grand Fisher, otherwise he won't be able to look at his mother again or something along those lines. If avenging your mothers murder doesn't qualify as a long term goal, then I don't know what would. If not for his mothers death, Ichigo wouldn't be the character he is. Grand Fisher has had a much greater impact on Ichigo's life than Byakuya ever will. We still haven't seen the resolution of the matter, since he doesn't know about his father yet.

    I agree. Ichigo really took that protecting people thing to heart due to the fact that he wasn't able to do so for his mother when Grand Fisher killed her. Grand Fisher has probably had the biggest impact on Ichigo than many of the other characters in the series. Hell Grand Fisher even got Isshin to come out of retirement and we still don't know how that's going to affect future storylines.

    Also Byakuya was merely doing his job as a member of the Gotei 13 when he fought Ichigo just like Kenpachi, Ikkaku, and Renji. While they were all antagonist in the technical sense, they weren't the main "bad" guy as they were trying to keep order in the Soul Society like they were supposed to as the Gotei 13. If anything Yamamoto was the one giving the orders to stop the intruders and Aizen wasn't helping the cause with his manipulation of the Central 46 place thingy and ordering Rukia's execution in the first place and causing this mess. I've never considered Byakuya as a main antagonist since he was merely another obstacle standing in Ichigo's path to save Rukia. Byakuya himself was conflicted with his own issues that lead up to the fight and Ichigo essentially represented the side of him he couldn't act on because of his vow he made to always follow the laws even though it went against his vow to protect Rukia.

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    S-Shield

    [13]Sep 18, 2009
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    Well, the thing is Ichigo defeated Grand Fisher, and made him retreat. Also, I don't remember Ichigo vowing to kill Grand Fisher one day, I remember him telling Rukia to let him keep his powers for a while longer since he wanted to keep helping people. Might be a translation issue.

    When I think of Main Antagonist, I think of someone like Skeletor, Frieza, Megatron. Dudes that last. Grand Fisher's impact on Ichigo's life can't be understated, but they only fought for a few episodes, and then Ichigo "forgets" all about him. Never mentions him again.

    Byakuya whipped the floor with Ichigo. Ichigo then spends a good deal of the series obsessed over defeating Byakuya, training and preparing and vowing, etc. I still say Byakuya.

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    S-Shield

    [14]Sep 18, 2009
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    Oh, wait. Ichigo does swear to kill Grand Fisher one day, I just looked it up. I guess I should have said Byakuya is the first opponent Ichigo vows to defeat and then follows through on it. He still forgets Fisher like a New Year's Resolution.

    But the fact that Ichigo vows to kill him one day and then the nex scene (in the manga) is GF being turned into an Arrancar seems to imply that Kubo meant for him to come back as a main villain. But again, the fact that he is never mentioned again and only gets taken down to show off how powerful Isshin is, I just can't equate that as a main antagonist.

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    titanmaniac05

    [15]Sep 18, 2009
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    He didn't forget about Grand Fisher, he's just been preoccupied, you know with Orihime getting kidnapped and Aizen trying to destroy his entire town and all
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    S-Shield

    [16]Sep 19, 2009
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    titanmaniac05 wrote:
    He didn't forget about Grand Fisher, he's just been preoccupied, you know with Orihime getting kidnapped and Aizen trying to destroy his entire town and all

    Right, it was a joke. Or an exaggeration to prove a point. I know he didn't just forget about the dude that killed his mom. But the end result is the same, he never mentioned him again. Some Main Villain...

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    Fishbulb13

    [17]Sep 19, 2009
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    S-Shield wrote:
    Some Main Villain...


    There's a bit of a difference between "main villain" and "antagonist."
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    S-Shield

    [18]Sep 19, 2009
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    Sigh.

    "Some first main antagonist..."

    Edited on 09/19/2009 8:45am
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    Fishbulb13

    [19]Sep 20, 2009
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    S-Shield wrote:

    Sigh.

    "Some first main antagonist..."



    It's semantics, I know, but while the main villain is always an antagonist, an antagonist is not always the main villain.
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    S-Shield

    [20]Sep 21, 2009
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    True. Grand Fisher was a villain. Byakuya was an antagonist.
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