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Adult Swim (ended 2008)

nathan

do you think he is divas and sayas mother's chevalier?

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    sinjaceheroes

    [1]Mar 27, 2008
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    nathana is not divas chevalier, my best guess he is the chevalier of divas and sayas mother. he himself said to amshel, ''what do you think about the pasts queens chevalier? do you think they are still alive?''

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    ImKagetsu

    [2]Mar 27, 2008
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    I don't remember his exact words, but I do remember he said something that gave me the idea the he was older than amshel. It's possible.
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    SsriTelQuessir

    [3]Mar 28, 2008
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    I suspect that he is either their mother's chevalier or their aunt's chevalier - er go, their father.
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    SCW_secret

    [4]Mar 29, 2008
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    SsriTelQuessir wrote:
    I suspect that he is either their mother's chevalier or their aunt's chevalier - er go, their father.

    ...Or the "brother" of their father. He also seems too flamboyant to be their father.

    Edited on 03/29/2008 9:23am
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    SsriTelQuessir

    [5]Mar 30, 2008
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    That would depend on how aggressive the queen was.
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    fisher100000

    [6]Mar 30, 2008
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    SsriTelQuessir wrote:
    That would depend on how aggressive the queen was.

    That's a good point--if the queen really wanted a baby I don't think that being "flamboyant" would matter, any more than (as we've already seen) age would matter; if she could overpower you, she would....

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    SCW_secret

    [7]Mar 30, 2008
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    I always assumed the queens would be reasonable people unless they were locked in a tower by Joel the first.
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    nopperabo

    [8]Mar 30, 2008
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    I am also not sure that Nathan's "flamboyance" may be as indicitave as we may think. If Nathat is indeed Chevalier to Saya's mom or aunt he's older than even Amshel. Depending on how long he was with which ever one he was with he could be a lot older than Amshel. We know the current queen genration has been around since the 1850's so a long run may be normal for Queen/Chevalier pairings. Therefore it is possible that Nathan's human life could have been in the late 17th early 18th century. Back then a man could be suprisingly effeminate in both dress and manners and not elicit comment (apart from possibly being called a "fop" or a "macaroni" (yes that's where the line in "Yankee Doodle" comes from) neither of which was a particulary great insult.) This is especially true if as I suspect Nathan is French himself (Just becuse Saya's mom's body was found in Scandanavia doesn't mean that that was her normal stomping grounds) Rember the time we're talking about would have been the age of Louis XIV-XVI when being effete was a sign of being a member of the aristocracy. While Nathan may have chaged his dress since then (in fact he seems to be the only Chevalier who doesnt wear more or less the exact same clothes he did when he was "turned" (he can't be; they didn't have cowboy boots back then) but maybe his mannerisms are more deeply ingrained.

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    SsriTelQuessir

    [9]Mar 30, 2008
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    I think that Nathan has to be much, much, much older than just the 18th century. As I recall, the body of the Saya's mother was mummified...which can happen naturally in certain climate conditions. It can happen artifitially, for examples the Egyptians and Inca from antiquity, but even that process of drying/mummification still can take a very long time to be complete. We don't know how long Saya's mom was dead before she was found. If the authors came out and said that Nathan was a 1000 years old, I would not need to suspend disbelief to accept that.

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    nopperabo

    [10]Apr 1, 2008
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    I'm not going to say Nathan isn't 1000+ but he doesnt have to be. Egyptian mummification took around two to three months (the actualy drying in the natron powder took around 40 days, most of the rest was take up with the washing sewing and wrapping. In favoralbe condtions (and the Scandanavian Permafrost would count as favorable) the cold wind could dry out and mummify a body within the space of a season and it would remain in that state as long as the condtion reamin unchaged for millenia (remember Unzi the prehistroic snowman they found in Switzerland about 10 years ago) She doesn't even have to be a wind mummy, Norway has a lot of peat Bogs so she could be a bog mummy like Tollund man (though I admit that the cucoons would have to be quite impervios to peat water for that to be the case. we simply cant know how long sayas mother was mummified when Joel got her.
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    sinjaceheroes

    [11]Apr 2, 2008
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    well when sayas mom was found she was mummified, yes, but she was also missing half of her face, which meant she was in a battle and thats how she died. by this we can concur that her mumification process would have taken seconds, by the means of her sisters poisonous blood. so if the writters wanted they could say that the battle which ended in sayas mom's death took place a few days before she was found or even a few hours! i would not be surprised.

    another thing is that this would also mean that the babies are only in danger of each others blood, ergo their aunts blood which nkilled their mom did not affect them but as their mom's body was mumified by the blood, the coocoons being part of the queens body mumified as well. and their brief contact with joels blood awaken their mumified bodies, it was not hibernation as so many think. i mean it could have been hibernation and not mumification but then why would they hibernate without even being born?O.o

    and another thing, i read a few comments up that a queen would not be naturally agressive towards her twin sister, but this may not be true. yes saya and diva are enemies, but diva was evil because of amshel, joel was NOT THE ONE WHO CHAINED HER TO THE TOWER, it ws amshel, even he himself says it in the episode 48. but saya does not hate diva even though they are enemies, saya still loves her, and we can see this in episode 49 when she goes to her after impaling her with her bloody sword. saya was as she was because she had a ''family'', joel, but diva only had herself, even though amshel was obbsesed with her, he did not care for her as she should have been. should diva had have a family when she was born as saya did, she would not have been evil.

    but then heres the thing, saya's mom, or Queen Saya, died at the hands of her sister, there was not amshel, no joel, and no prison tower, there was only them. what i like to think of chiropterans is that their epoch evolutrion happened at the same time as ours, as we evolved so did they, they could not have existed before us, because they need us to survive. and throughout millions of years they have existed side by us, hidding. but then throughout those millions of years, the twins have always have the ''only one can exist'', i think that this is just nature's way of keeping balance in the blood plus universe. by a twin killing the other, it will make our species prosper while their species will barely hang on to existance.

    what i want to say with that is that the twins are born with that drive, its part of their genetic make up, part of their soul you could say. and with no one to teach them human emotions, the twin s can never learn to co exist. i mean how many times did saya try to talk to diva to sway her from evil and join her family, to live in peace? that is because of joel the first. he taught saya human emotions and so, her chiropteran instincts were overpowered by the new more powerful human emotions. i mean she let out diva out of the tower because she CARED that diva was alone!

    finally, what i want to say with all of this is that the queens's bloodline are destined to forever fight and kill each other, should a human not intervine. kai stepped in and cared and is caring for the new twin queens, his nieces. they will grow up to be, maybe, the first queens in existance ever to coexist peacefully with each other. i mean what could await the planet, in the blood plus universe, now that not only are twin queens befriended by one another, but also befirended towards the entire planet. *excited smile* now that i would have loved to see!!!

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    SsriTelQuessir

    [12]Apr 3, 2008
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    well when sayas mom was found she was mummified, yes, but she was also missing half of her face, which meant she was in a battle and thats how she died. by this we can concur that her mumification process would have taken seconds, by the means of her sisters poisonous blood.

    I disagree. Then Joel and the human Amshel cut into Saya's mother, she was not crystalized...she was simply dead and dried out. Dead, presumably from having her head crushed. She could not have possibly been killed by her sister's blood.

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    jsmith000

    [13]Apr 3, 2008
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    Dear Sinjaceheroes.

    You've got some excellent points there. For awhile I thought there seems to be some genetic hostility that's inbred between the two sister queens. But one factor that I'm trying to reconcile. Since in a way, they "choose" each others husbands (or who the fathers of their children are) doesn't that insure that they will always have some sort of impact on each other's lives. In order to have children, they might either have to totally get along or be at constant war with each other. I'm not sure if there's a middle ground.

    JThree

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    sinjaceheroes

    [14]Apr 5, 2008
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    JThree

    yes, they have to have some sort of 'middle ground', im trying to remeber in which episode it was but, since the beggining of the series divas chevaliers almost never if not ever, used their true power against haji, the reason being only haji could father divas children, but that changed when riku was turned. diva saw her chance and took it, after that every time divas chevalier or the corpe corps attack haji they do so without any holdback.

    so yes, they must always be a kind of line that both sisters must follow and never break, otherwise the survival of the species would hang in the balance and by nature, (in the series saya does not display this, possibly because of joel's raising) they always have the survival of the species as a top priority.

    p.s. there is a major part of the plot which was never told. at some point or another it was decided that haji would marry diva and solomon would marry saya, but they never explained or showed any of it. sad...it would have been amazing to see it.

    Edited on 04/05/2008 3:05pm
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    Misuto_Horuda

    [15]Apr 12, 2008
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    One thing about Nathan is... I believe he is the chevalier of Saya and Diva's aunt, not mother. Something disturbs me about the way their mother died. Dried up with half her head gone. Nathan always seems to know more than he conveys... especially in areas of disposing of chevaliers and queens. I think Nathan might have killed their mother in a similar fassion as Carl tried to do with Saya... only perhaps with a lot more resistance.
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    sinjaceheroes

    [16]Apr 27, 2008
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    so that could mean that nathan may be sayas and divas father? interesting!
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    cyber-tooth

    [17]Jun 15, 2008
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:
    p.s. there is a major part of the plot which was never told. at some point or another it was decided that haji would marry diva and solomon would marry saya, but they never explained or showed any of it. sad...it would have been amazing to see it.

    Really? I remember Solomon mentioned something along those lines at the Zoo, but it was very breaf and I assumed he was just trying to screw with them or get Saya on his side. Was something like this explained more in the manga or something, cause I'd really like to see that!

    On the case that Nathan was Diva and Saya's mother/aunt's chivalier, I agree. He didn't crystalize when Saya cut him and we saw him in the epilogue type thing as a reporter, being as laid back and flamboyant as ever. He always had something more up his sleeves. As I said on another thread, looks like Diva's twins aren't going to be rid of Grandpa Nathan anytime soon!

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    novarockfreak

    [18]Jun 29, 2008
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    cyber-tooth wrote:

    sinjaceheroes wrote:
    p.s. there is a major part of the plot which was never told. at some point or another it was decided that haji would marry diva and solomon would marry saya, but they never explained or showed any of it. sad...it would have been amazing to see it.

    Really? I remember Solomon mentioned something along those lines at the Zoo, but it was very breaf and I assumed he was just trying to screw with them or get Saya on his side. Was something like this explained more in the manga or something, cause I'd really like to see that!

    On the case that Nathan was Diva and Saya's mother/aunt's chivalier, I agree. He didn't crystalize when Saya cut him and we saw him in the epilogue type thing as a reporter, being as laid back and flamboyant as ever. He always had something more up his sleeves. As I said on another thread, looks like Diva's twins aren't going to be rid of Grandpa Nathan anytime soon!


    What I don`t understand is: If Nathan knew that he wouldn`t die, why did he ask Saya to kill him? It doesn`t make sense to me. Though I like the theory of Nathan being Sayas and Divas uncle, or even father...
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    SsriTelQuessir

    [19]Jun 29, 2008
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    This is entirely wishful thinking. But why, you ask, did Nathan do that? Well, I like to think that he did that because that would provide a plot premise for the next series.
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    novarockfreak

    [20]Jun 30, 2008
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    Hopefully. There are still so many unanswered questions.
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