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AMC (ended 2013)

Discussion Thread: 5x08 "Gliding All Over"

  • Avatar of aldaros23

    aldaros23

    [1]Aug 22, 2012
    • member since: 02/15/07
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    Airs September 2nd, 2012. Beware spoilers below.


    That's it for about 6 months! Make sure you are watching in mid-Spring 2013.

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  • Avatar of BenParrish

    BenParrish

    [2]Aug 27, 2012
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    The name of episode 8 is "Gliding Over All", not "Gliding All Over".


    Thank you.

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  • Avatar of aldaros23

    aldaros23

    [3]Aug 27, 2012
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    Oh well, can't change it now. LET IT BE KNOWN. This episode is called GLIDING OVER ALL.
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  • Avatar of BenParrish

    BenParrish

    [4]Aug 27, 2012
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    Well, it's not just this forum thread, it's like, all over tv.com the name is wrong.


    Obviously this is the most important thing in the history of the universe.


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  • Avatar of Exophagy

    Exophagy

    [5]Sep 3, 2012
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    Awesome ending!

    I think the book came from Gretchin Black (her maiden name). Hmm, Gretchin Black, Walter White and in between them, Gray Matter, hmm. http://i.imgur.com/LLRqS.jpg

    Ep 306, Walt meets Gale, Gale talks about a Whitman poem, Walt goes home and reads it in his book! He already had the book it seems.

    It fits with the general story telling this show has employed. There have been numerous coincidences that if they didn't occur would have made the story fall apart.

    Crazy 8 escapes the basement only to run into Walt driving home, Walt running into Jane's dad at the bar(edit; actually this one might not have affected story much), Walt over hearing that the lawyer is about to flip.

    I'm sure there are more coincidences, now, Hank puts the pieces together based on the incorrect assumption that GB is Gale.

    And it takes away the "Walt leaves a book from Gale lying around where anyone could find it" sloppiness out of the equation.

    Gilligannnnn!!!!
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    CjTl2005

    [6]Sep 3, 2012
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    Exophagy wrote:
    Awesome ending!

    I think the book came from Gretchin Black (her maiden name). Hmm, Gretchin Black, Walter White and in between them, Gray Matter, hmm. http://i.imgur.com/LLRqS.jpg

    Ep 306, Walt meets Gale, Gale talks about a Whitman poem, Walt goes home and reads it in his book! He already had the book it seems.

    It fits with the general story telling this show has employed. There have been numerous coincidences that if they didn't occur would have made the story fall apart.

    Crazy 8 escapes the basement only to run into Walt driving home, Walt running into Jane's dad at the bar(edit; actually this one might not have affected story much), Walt over hearing that the lawyer is about to flip.

    I'm sure there are more coincidences, now, Hank puts the pieces together based on the incorrect assumption that GB is Gale.

    And it takes away the "Walt leaves a book from Gale lying around where anyone could find it" sloppiness out of the equation.

    Gilligannnnn!!!!


    Wow. I hadn't even thought of Gretchen as "the other G.B.". You gotta go way back to realize this one. Amazing attention to detail, both you and Gilligan. Now we have a situation where Hank knows, but has no actual proof. It probably won't be difficult for him to get it at this point, but it's still going to be interesting going forward.
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    DingDingFring

    [7]Sep 4, 2012
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    Exophagy wrote:
    Awesome ending! I think the book came from Gretchin Black (her maiden name). Hmm, Gretchin Black, Walter White and in between them, Gray Matter, hmm. http://i.imgur.com/LLRqS.jpg Ep 306, Walt meets Gale, Gale talks about a Whitman poem, Walt goes home and reads it in his book! He already had the book it seems. It fits with the general story telling this show has employed. There have been numerous coincidences that if they didn't occur would have made the story fall apart. Crazy 8 escapes the basement only to run into Walt driving home, Walt running into Jane's dad at the bar(edit; actually this one might not have affected story much), Walt over hearing that the lawyer is about to flip. I'm sure there are more coincidences, now, Hank puts the pieces together based on the incorrect assumption that GB is Gale. And it takes away the "Walt leaves a book from Gale lying around where anyone could find it" sloppiness out of the equation. Gilligannnnn!!!!



    Very well spotted sir. I didn't sit quite right with me to be honest, but I admit to not having the very keen eye to which you obviously possess. It makes perfect sense for the initials G.B -to actually be Gretchin. I don't ever recall Gale handing Walter that book throughout the series, and I don't for one second believe that the ridiculously meticulous Mr White could ever be so lapse. Especially after masterminding the abrupt end of all the 'loose ends'.


    A quite brilliant observation, thanks for the enlightenment.


    Edit - Just a quick one though, where does it state Gretchin's maiden name was Black ? I don't ever remember seeing that to be honest.

    Edited on 09/04/2012 9:34am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of BreakingBad23

    BreakingBad23

    [8]Sep 4, 2012
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    DingDingFring wrote:


    Exophagy wrote:
    Awesome ending! I think the book came from Gretchin Black (her maiden name). Hmm, Gretchin Black, Walter White and in between them, Gray Matter, hmm. http://i.imgur.com/LLRqS.jpg Ep 306, Walt meets Gale, Gale talks about a Whitman poem, Walt goes home and reads it in his book! He already had the book it seems. It fits with the general story telling this show has employed. There have been numerous coincidences that if they didn't occur would have made the story fall apart. Crazy 8 escapes the basement only to run into Walt driving home, Walt running into Jane's dad at the bar(edit; actually this one might not have affected story much), Walt over hearing that the lawyer is about to flip. I'm sure there are more coincidences, now, Hank puts the pieces together based on the incorrect assumption that GB is Gale. And it takes away the "Walt leaves a book from Gale lying around where anyone could find it" sloppiness out of the equation. Gilligannnnn!!!!



    Very well spotted sir. I didn't sit quite right with me to be honest, but I admit to not having the very keen eye to which you obviously possess. It makes perfect sense for the initials G.B -to actually be Gretchin. I don't ever recall Gale handing Walter that book throughout the series, and I don't for one second believe that the ridiculously meticulous Mr White could ever be so lapse. Especially after masterminding the abrupt end of all the 'loose ends'.


    A quite brilliant observation, thanks for the enlightenment.


    Edit - Just a quick one though, where does it state Gretchin's maiden name was Black ? I don't ever remember seeing that to be honest.



    Her surname is NOT 'Black.' It's just something the internet trolls have been posting around on the IMDB message boards. Walt is seen reading that book for the first time in episode six of season 3. It can only be assumed that Gale gave the book to Walt off camera (i.e. we didn't see it).


    Gretchen has nothing to do with it, it's just people trolling.


    It's the same people who insisted that Jesse didn't actually shoot Gale (because the camera angle looks like he's moving the gun to the left). Or that Walt didn't actually poison Brock (apparently, the two henchmen you see outside his house in Face Off planted the Lily plant there to frame Walt).


    Maybe Walt could lie and say to Hank the book was from Gretchen if he interrogates him about it, but it's from GALE.

    Edited on 09/04/2012 11:10am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of DingDingFring

    DingDingFring

    [9]Sep 5, 2012
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    BreakingBad23 wrote:


    DingDingFring wrote:


    Exophagy wrote:
    Awesome ending! I think the book came from Gretchin Black (her maiden name). Hmm, Gretchin Black, Walter White and in between them, Gray Matter, hmm. http://i.imgur.com/LLRqS.jpg Ep 306, Walt meets Gale, Gale talks about a Whitman poem, Walt goes home and reads it in his book! He already had the book it seems. It fits with the general story telling this show has employed. There have been numerous coincidences that if they didn't occur would have made the story fall apart. Crazy 8 escapes the basement only to run into Walt driving home, Walt running into Jane's dad at the bar(edit; actually this one might not have affected story much), Walt over hearing that the lawyer is about to flip. I'm sure there are more coincidences, now, Hank puts the pieces together based on the incorrect assumption that GB is Gale. And it takes away the "Walt leaves a book from Gale lying around where anyone could find it" sloppiness out of the equation. Gilligannnnn!!!!



    Very well spotted sir. I didn't sit quite right with me to be honest, but I admit to not having the very keen eye to which you obviously possess. It makes perfect sense for the initials G.B -to actually be Gretchin. I don't ever recall Gale handing Walter that book throughout the series, and I don't for one second believe that the ridiculously meticulous Mr White could ever be so lapse. Especially after masterminding the abrupt end of all the 'loose ends'.


    A quite brilliant observation, thanks for the enlightenment.


    Edit - Just a quick one though, where does it state Gretchin's maiden name was Black ? I don't ever remember seeing that to be honest.



    Her surname is NOT 'Black.' It's just something the internet trolls have been posting around on the IMDB message boards. Walt is seen reading that book for the first time in episode six of season 3. It can only be assumed that Gale gave the book to Walt off camera (i.e. we didn't see it).


    Gretchen has nothing to do with it, it's just people trolling.


    It's the same people who insisted that Jesse didn't actually shoot Gale (because the camera angle looks like he's moving the gun to the left). Or that Walt didn't actually poison Brock (apparently, the two henchmen you see outside his house in Face Off planted the Lily plant there to frame Walt).


    Maybe Walt could lie and say to Hank the book was from Gretchen if he interrogates him about it, but it's from GALE.




    Ah...........Ok. Thanks for the heads-up.


    So, any idea's as towhether or not the book was left intentionally ? As I personally can't see how Walter could have been so sloppy. It certainly doesn't ring true with anything he has done previously. It doesn't really make sense. Also, the handwriting looks to be different on the 'Leaves of Grass' book to the scribe on Gales 'Lab-Book' ?


    I'm a little puzzled here, as I don't feel that Gilligan would offer up such a cheap 'gimme' in that regard.


    Thought's ?

    Edited on 09/05/2012 4:29am
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  • Avatar of Exophagy

    Exophagy

    [10]Sep 5, 2012
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    BreakingBad23 wrote:


    Her surname is NOT 'Black.' It's just something the internet trolls have been posting around on the IMDB message boards. Walt is seen reading that book for the first time in episode six of season 3. It can only be assumed that Gale gave the book to Walt off camera (i.e. we didn't see it).


    Gretchen has nothing to do with it, it's just people trolling.


    It's the same people who insisted that Jesse didn't actually shoot Gale (because the camera angle looks like he's moving the gun to the left). Or that Walt didn't actually poison Brock (apparently, the two henchmen you see outside his house in Face Off planted the Lily plant there to frame Walt).


    Maybe Walt could lie and say to Hank the book was from Gretchen if he interrogates him about it, but it's from GALE.


    I'm not sure if I understand your use of the word trolling in this context. I have only ascribed trolling to those actively trying to disrupt social discourse. Whereas your cited examples are of theories or ideas that people have come up with, which serves to add to the discourse. And yes, like any theory or speculation, it may turn out to be wrong. So the people who proponed the wrong theory are retroactively labeled as trolls? To be fair to you, you did specifically mention imdb, which I've never visited but have heard of it's reputation. So is the trolling reference directed only to those on imdb, or are you including me with them?



    Now to the theory itself, you are correct, her maiden name was not Black. But her current name is. Schwartz is German for Black. Walt mentions this early on in the series as the way the name Gray Matter came into being. As in White, Black and thus Gray. Of coarse, none of that speaks to whether the theory is accurate or not. So we are left with one unknown, Gretchin's maiden name. And you have to concede that it could start with a B. But, I preempt you saying, we don't know for sure. Again, you are correct, well played sir. But if we are only going to consider known factors, there is also no reason to presume it was given to Walt off camera, right? That is really just another theory, and I don't see how Gale would have written a message like that after one meeting with Walt. There are no known factors to back that up.



    Especially if you consider how Walt was actively trying to not get involved with Gale on a personal level, since he still wanted Jesse to be there. It wasn't until the moment Gale talked about the "magic" of chemistry, which leads to Gale reciting the poem, that Walt began to give him the time of day. Just because we remember how Walt and Gale did come to respect each other, don't forget how it was a patchy beginning to their relationship.



    This is Breaking Bad we are talking about, as well as having characters that evolve, they also show relationships develop and evolve. What you are effectively suggesting is that Vince and crew wrote them as bff's from day one, with no development of their relationship until Walt's "he dies or I do" realization.



    That doesn't jibe with me. And I agree with DingDingFring (haha nice name), the handwriting does not look the same, but I'm no expert. So unless you have inside knowledge from someone working on the show itself, I don't see why you feel confident to state your speculations as being more factual than any other. In fact, your idea has less basis in what has been shown than mine, and so has less credibility (not zero, just less).



    And really, the difference is almost moot. Whether from Gale or Gretchin, Hanks gray matter is firing up, the wheels are turning. The only relevance to which path lead him there, for me, is the implication that Walt was so careless. I have a hard time reconciling that with the man that we have come to know over the series run. Yes, it could be pointed out that, had Walt not have been so proud as to put Hank back onto the case a couple seasons ago, he could have been in the clear. But Walt's pride has been a source of conflict in his character before, again, it's a known factor.



    So instead of denigrating those who offer a different view than your own, can't we say that it highlights what a superbly written show this is that even if one person thinks a situation is black and white, another could make the case for it being white and black? We do have 10 months to fill in, let the speculations run rampant as far as I'm concerned.

    Edited on 09/05/2012 8:12am
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  • Avatar of DingDingFring

    DingDingFring

    [11]Sep 5, 2012
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    Exophagy wrote:


    BreakingBad23 wrote:


    Her surname is NOT 'Black.' It's just something the internet trolls have been posting around on the IMDB message boards. Walt is seen reading that book for the first time in episode six of season 3. It can only be assumed that Gale gave the book to Walt off camera (i.e. we didn't see it).


    Gretchen has nothing to do with it, it's just people trolling.


    It's the same people who insisted that Jesse didn't actually shoot Gale (because the camera angle looks like he's moving the gun to the left). Or that Walt didn't actually poison Brock (apparently, the two henchmen you see outside his house in Face Off planted the Lily plant there to frame Walt).


    Maybe Walt could lie and say to Hank the book was from Gretchen if he interrogates him about it, but it's from GALE.


    I'm not sure if I understand your use of the word trolling in this context. I have only ascribed trolling to those actively trying to disrupt social discourse. Whereas your cited examples are of theories or ideas that people have come up with, which serves to add to the discourse. And yes, like any theory or speculation, it may turn out to be wrong. So the people who proponed the wrong theory are retroactively labeled as trolls? To be fair to you, you did specifically mention imdb, which I've never visited but have heard of it's reputation. So is the trolling reference directed only to those on imdb, or are you including me with them?



    Now to the theory itself, you are correct, her maiden name was not Black. But her current name is. Schwartz is German for Black. Walt mentions this early on in the series as the way the name Gray Matter came into being. As in White, Black and thus Gray. Of coarse, none of that speaks to whether the theory is accurate or not. So we are left with one unknown, Gretchin's maiden name. And you have to concede that it could start with a B. But, I preempt you saying, we don't know for sure. Again, you are correct, well played sir. But if we are only going to consider known factors, there is also no reason to presume it was given to Walt off camera, right? That is really just another theory, and I don't see how Gale would have written a message like that after one meeting with Walt. There are no known factors to back that up.



    Especially if you consider how Walt was actively trying to not get involved with Gale on a personal level, since he still wanted Jesse to be there. It wasn't until the moment Gale talked about the "magic" of chemistry, which leads to Gale reciting the poem, that Walt began to give him the time of day. Just because we remember how Walt and Gale did come to respect each other, don't forget how it was a patchy beginning to their relationship.



    This is Breaking Bad we are talking about, as well as having characters that evolve, they also show relationships develop and evolve. What you are effectively suggesting is that Vince and crew wrote them as bff's from day one, with no development of their relationship until Walt's "he dies or I do" realization.



    That doesn't jibe with me. And I agree with DingDingFring (haha nice name), the handwriting does not look the same, but I'm no expert. So unless you have inside knowledge from someone working on the show itself, I don't see why you feel confident to state your speculations as being more factual than any other. In fact, your idea has less basis in what has been shown than mine, and so has less credibility (not zero, just less).



    And really, the difference is almost moot. Whether from Gale or Gretchin, Hanks gray matter is firing up, the wheels are turning. The only relevance to which path lead him there, for me, is the implication that Walt was so careless. I have a hard time reconciling that with the man that we have come to know over the series run. Yes, it could be pointed out that, had Walt not have been so proud as to put Hank back onto the case a couple seasons ago, he could have been in the clear. But Walt's pride has been a source of conflict in his character before, again, it's a known factor.



    So instead of denigrating those who offer a different view than your own, can't we say that it highlights what a superbly written show this is that even if one person thinks a situation is black and white, another could make the case for it being white and black? We do have 10 months to fill in, let the speculations run rampant as far as I'm concerned.




    I'm loving the whole Schwartz/Black thing, although I may need to concede, that what I initially believed to be the case, may well now not be as it seemed.


    From my original casual viewing, I genuinely thought there was a difference in the handwriting between the two memo's. But now, with this damning evidence, I'm now swaying towards the theory, they were actually scribed by the very same hand. That of Gale.


    http://i.imgur.com/ALpMK.jpg


    I'm not sure what is irritating me more right now, that fact this looks like an obvious half-season cliffhanger 'gimme', that has ran against the grain,or the fact I have to wait7-9 months to find out the truth.


    My head hurts.

    Edited on 09/05/2012 8:42am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Exophagy

    Exophagy

    [12]Sep 5, 2012
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    The Y's look different to me. The lab notes has the vertical line extending from the center of the curve, in the book it extends from the top right portion of the curve. Arguments can be made either way, nothing has been damned.
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    DingDingFring

    [13]Sep 6, 2012
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    Exophagy wrote:
    The Y's look different to me. The lab notes has the vertical line extending from the center of the curve, in the book it extends from the top right portion of the curve. Arguments can be made either way, nothing has been damned.



    I found the same theory from another poster on the Rolling Stone website. And I quote ...


    "In the "Gray Matter" episode it is revealed that Gretchen's maiden initials are G.B. Black (Gretchen) and White (Walt)
    make gray and that is apparently how Walt came up with the name for the company. Seems like too much of a coincidence to me. I wonder if Walt will eventually claim that Gretchen was the one who gave him the copy of Leaves of Grass and wrote the inscription. I doubt Hank remembers Gale's handwriting, although the inscription looks too new to appear to be dated back to when Walt was in grad school. Maybe he claims it was arecent present and that opens up a whole new can of worms with Skyler.


    I always had a sneaking suspicion that Skyler was somehow involved in Walt's departure from Gray Matter and that was the root of his
    suppressed resentment for her. "



    Interesting..........




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    pubjoe

    [14]Sep 6, 2012
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    Exophagy, that's a very good idea and made me think, but I think you should concede that the book's definitely from Gale. Look at the language, it's obviously written by Gale to someone who he holds great respect for. Gretchen had a very different relationship. Considering the quite messy tension between her and Walt, she wouldn't use the word 'fondly', she wouldn't use initials, she wouldn't advertise her married name in such a gift and she certainly wouldn't translate her name to English. You just have to bend too much for it to be true. Plus the handwriting is very male, can you really see Gretchen writing like that?



    As for Gale, it matches his notebook message not only in his handwriting, but in his language, in his habit of using initials and in his open admiration for Walter.



    The Y's are different? Come on. In both messages, the general handwriting is neat, meticulously spaced, all capitals and has a very subtle upward tick. They're obviously written by the same person. Do you really think that Gretchen would have virtually identical handwriting except her Y's are slightly different?



    Yes Walt made a mistake leaving it lying around, but it's completely believable. Walt's not that perfect and he's been scrappy in execution many times. Luck has been on his side all through the show. The book is a good example of his narcissistic personality, keeping a heartfelt gift from a professional admirer as a toilet book - even after he had the man killed. Walt probably paid little attention to the message and simply forgot about it when the book found it's way to the toilet without him foreseeing Hank nosing through it.


    Edited on 09/06/2012 9:19pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of DingDingFring

    DingDingFring

    [15]Sep 7, 2012
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    And now the plot thickens...........


    http://i.imgur.com/Dv38v.jpg

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    Exophagy

    [16]Sep 7, 2012
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    Pubjoe, based on your post, I don't feel the need to concede. Based on Vince's own words however;

    http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2012/09/the-9-biggest-revelations-about-breaking-bad-we-learned-from-vince-gilligan-interviews-this-week/

    "Gale gave Walt the book"
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    pubjoe

    [17]Sep 8, 2012
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    Lol!



    Ok.

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  • Avatar of DingDingFring

    DingDingFring

    [18]Sep 8, 2012
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    This is great piece, that actually delves further into the scene and Gilligan's reasoning behind it ....



    http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/q-a-breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-goes-deep-on-the-final-season-20120906

    Edited on 09/08/2012 2:50am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    No1Slayerette

    [19]Sep 11, 2012
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    Haha, well I'm glad that's solved... Breaking Bad fans are all so intense. I was afraid people were going to start taking calligraphy classes in an attempt to solve things. As a casual viewer, it never occured to me that it might have been Gretchen, and plot wise, it's common sense that Gale gave Walter the book. Otherwise, as someone stated, Walter could easily explain and prove to Hank that Gretchen gave him the book and Hank would have no reason to be suspicious of Walter at all.

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    ldsdbomber

    [20]Nov 23, 2012
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    actually No1 it would have totally been in line with some of the coincidences in the show if Hank made the fit based on a wrong ID there, would have been kinda neat actually!
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