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Syfy (ended 2010)

Lingering Questions After the Finale (spoilers)

  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [1]Jan 5, 2011
    • member since: 07/02/03
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    I figure here would be a good place to list questions about specifics between the end of Caprica and the beginning of Battlestar Galactica, or even the events that led up to the first Cylon war.


    First, I think the finale did a good job considering the time constraints. It wrapped up enough story lines and hinted enough at the future with the final dialog and montage. One wouldn't have to imagine very much to see how it all plays out, especially now that we see Clarice was fueling the whole monotheistic beliefs.


    But there are some questions, mostly specific things about characters. It's compounded by the oddity that Caprica's basic plots and characters were already decided before the end of BSG's run, yet I do not recall even a vague nod to Zoe or the Graystones by either the cylons. At least if the first Hybrid was a female, then the whole "Some might call me God" would fit in with one of Zoe's final lines and we could assume she uploaded into the first body (and why she had a loyal army of toasters). But instead it was an old man.



    My list:


    Other than getting a new body, what happens to Zoe after the events? Specifically her role in the war(s).
    Does she lead the charge against humanity, does she try to keep the peace, does she sacrifice herself (delete) for her children, how long does she survive?


    What about Zoe's avatar-friend Tamara?
    Similar to Zoe's questions, but at least with Zoe we saw her reunited with her parents in a new body. I don't recall seeing Tamara in any of the montage screens. Granted, her role in the series was quite small in comparison, but I imagine she had some sort of importance to events.


    In BSG the skin-jobs talk a lot about religion and a lot about the past. However even in the end of the series when Caprica's general plotline was already constructed we don't get a mention of Zoe or a hint about a female progenitor.
    Was memory of her wiped from the race like the original 5? Is she not considered important from a technical or religious point of view?


    Was that avatar-Zoe watching Clarice in the V-temple? Or was it just the viewer seeing one of the Angels watch events unfold like Angel-Balter and Angel-Six at the end of BSG?
    I believe Angel-Zoe made anappearance in flashbacks, as the entity that gave Zoe the idea for creating life and supposedly appeared to her during the fire from her childhood.



    Edited on 01/05/2011 6:27am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of Helostwin

    Helostwin

    [2]Jan 5, 2011
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    More points: don't get how Clarise escaped the roundup that obviously followed the failed bombing. I'm sure her house was raided, she was so scared of it happening earliier.Surely the Global Security chief was arrested after publicly proclaming the Greystones terrorists, I'm sure they loudly accused him.

    2) How did Clarise remain so powerful? With Lacy the new "Blessed Mother" (who hates Clarise) & doesn't want any more terrorist killings (after seeing so many KIDS her age butchered) I'm suprised she didn't have Clarise & all the other terrorisrts killed. Or did Clarise kill Lacy & they don't show it?

    3) I think they had to re-write the Will Adama part because of the cancellation. They kill Will 58 years before the FALL and a new younger brother is given the same name. OK but when Admiral Adama was shot it was REPEATEDLY stated that he was in his 70s. The original Willie would be that age, the new younger brother is about a dozen years too young. So they screwed up the timeline. 4)Like KANNIBALLL said ^^ why don't the Cylons remember Zoe? Furthermore why don't the HUMANS know about skin jobs until Raganar Station if the Greystones made a skin job Zoe half a century before?

    5) Yes, what happened to Tamara? They don't show anything.
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  • Avatar of mattgus

    mattgus

    [3]Jan 5, 2011
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    all good questions...i had trouble with this series in the beginning,then i felt it got much better and i was looking forward to it just as they announced it's demise..the final 5(no pun intended)eps were very exciting and seemed well done. i was glued to the dvd i recorded and up late watching it...i think the simple answer to many of the questions is that they ran out of time to tell the story and there are lose ends...there were alot in the BSG series also. i never felt completly satified i understood it wholely...anyway i did think the last 5 eps were very entertaining,and i would have cont. to watch ...i never did get the time lines in this or the last series anyway..and myt list of questions would be way too long...it was fun to see the 2 guys from sanctuary as evil instructors at the camp...what a scene with the red headed boy being taken out to be shot in blowback. so many fine actors on board for this series...well enough and good-bye...other shows to watch....
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  • Avatar of Scarzaster

    Scarzaster

    [4]Jan 5, 2011
    • member since: 01/20/08
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    No Way That Was A Awesome Ending if they have to end witch would suck!!!!


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  • Avatar of Scarzaster

    Scarzaster

    [5]Jan 5, 2011
    • member since: 01/20/08
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    mattgus wrote:
    all good questions...i had trouble with this series in the beginning,then i felt it got much better and i was looking forward to it just as they announced it's demise..the final 5(no pun intended)eps were very exciting and seemed well done. i was glued to the dvd i recorded and up late watching it...i think the simple answer to many of the questions is that they ran out of time to tell the story and there are lose ends...there were alot in the BSG series also. i never felt completly satified i understood it wholely...anyway i did think the last 5 eps were very entertaining,and i would have cont. to watch ...i never did get the time lines in this or the last series anyway..and myt list of questions would be way too long...it was fun to see the 2 guys from sanctuary as evil instructors at the camp...what a scene with the red headed boy being taken out to be shot in blowback. so many fine actors on board for this series...well enough and good-bye...other shows to watch....

    Helostwin wrote:
    More points: don't get how Clarise escaped the roundup that obviously followed the failed bombing. I'm sure her house was raided, she was so scared of it happening earliier.Surely the Global Security chief was arrested after publicly proclaming the Greystones terrorists, I'm sure they loudly accused him.

    2) How did Clarise remain so powerful? With Lacy the new "Blessed Mother" (who hates Clarise) & doesn't want any more terrorist killings (after seeing so many KIDS her age butchered) I'm suprised she didn't have Clarise & all the other terrorisrts killed. Or did Clarise kill Lacy & they don't show it?

    3) I think they had to re-write the Will Adama part because of the cancellation. They kill Will 58 years before the FALL and a new younger brother is given the same name. OK but when Admiral Adama was shot it was REPEATEDLY stated that he was in his 70s. The original Willie would be that age, the new younger brother is about a dozen years too young. So they screwed up the timeline. 4)Like KANNIBALLL said ^^ why don't the Cylons remember Zoe? Furthermore why don't the HUMANS know about skin jobs until Raganar Station if the Greystones made a skin job Zoe half a century before?

    5) Yes, what happened to Tamara? They don't show anything.


    [QUOTE="kanniballl"]

    I figure here would be a good place to list questions about specifics between the end of Caprica and the beginning of Battlestar Galactica, or even the events that led up to the first Cylon war.


    First, I think the finale did a good job considering the time constraints. It wrapped up enough story lines and hinted enough at the future with the final dialog and montage. One wouldn't have to imagine very much to see how it all plays out, especially now that we see Clarice was fueling the whole monotheistic beliefs.


    But there are some questions, mostly specific things about characters. It's compounded by the oddity that Caprica's basic plots and characters were already decided before the end of BSG's run, yet I do not recall even a vague nod to Zoe or the Graystones by either the cylons. At least if the first Hybrid was a female, then the whole "Some might call me God" would fit in with one of Zoe's final lines and we could assume she uploaded into the first body (and why she had a loyal army of toasters). But instead it was an old man.



    My list:


    Other than getting a new body, what happens to Zoe after the events? Specifically her role in the war(s).
    Does she lead the charge against humanity, does she try to keep the peace, does she sacrifice herself (delete) for her children, how long does she survive?


    What about Zoe's avatar-friend Tamara?
    Similar to Zoe's questions, but at least with Zoe we saw her reunited with her parents in a new body. I don't recall seeing Tamara in any of the montage screens. Granted, her role in the series was quite small in comparison, but I imagine she had some sort of importance to events.


    In BSG the skin-jobs talk a lot about religion and a lot about the past. However even in the end of the series when Caprica's general plotline was already constructed we don't get a mention of Zoe or a hint about a female progenitor.
    Was memory of her wiped from the race like the original 5? Is she not considered important from a technical or religious point of view?


    Was that avatar-Zoe watching Clarice in the V-temple? Or was it just the viewer seeing one of the Angels watch events unfold like Angel-Balter and Angel-Six at the end of BSG?
    I believe Angel-Zoe made anappearance in flashbacks, as the entity that gave Zoe the idea for creating life and supposedly appeared to her during the fire from her childhood.




    Are you People That Watch desperate house wife's crap sh^t you shouldn't even be opinionated on Caprica, You are the people that ruin Great Shows Bug Off Bidget!!!! Must Be IDiotS or SomeThing ,,|,
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [6]Jan 6, 2011
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    Scarzaster wrote:


    Are you People That Watch desperate house wife's crap sh^t you shouldn't even be opinionated on Caprica, You are the people that ruin Great Shows Bug Off Bidget!!!! Must Be IDiotS or SomeThing ,,|,



    Wow, where'd THAT come from? I hate Desperate Housewives, plus your statement is uncalled for in general.


    Caprica was ended prematurely, but given the situation they did an OK job wrapping up the story-lines.


    Considering I was such as big fan of the Battlestar Galactica remake, and was looking forward to this show answering some questions about how the war started in the first place, I was sad that it ended before it could tell its whole story.


    Sometimes when this happens, the writers chime in during an interview and say what they envisioned happening. The show "John Doe" comes to mind, and I vaguely recall others.



    I didn't care whether Lost explained everything, I was more than fine with its final episode. It's just some things here and there, things that *should* have connected Caprica to Battlestar Galactica but didn't. Such as Zoe, such an important character to the creation of the Cylon race, was never even alluded to in the closing BSG episodes.

    Edited on 01/06/2011 7:23am
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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [7]Jan 9, 2011
    • member since: 09/10/05
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    The Biggest thing you have to remember, is the original 5 skin jobs from BSG came from the destroyed earth found in the BSG series. They Travel to the 12 colonies in the hope of stopping or preventing a Cylon War. Once they arrive they find they are too late and the Cylon war has already begun. They than offer to give the cylons, the skin job technology and give them ressurrection. The Cylons agree and leave the 12 colonies. Until the start of the BSG mini-series. It is sometime before those events that those 5 original skin jobs are boxed. and have their memories wiped.



    So really the Cylons skin jobs from BSG could possibly have no connection too ZOE. The one thing Caprica does establish is how all the Cylons have come to believe in the ONE god. They are getting it from Clarice and from "Mother". We would need another season to see how the Grey Stones, and Zoe fit into all of this. Clearly Daniel was the first one on Caprice to create a skin job, but obviously the other Cylons had no knowledge of it, until the 5 show up from earth. Zoe's fate is unknown and hopefully they can wrap it up in Blood and Chrome. As i really did enjoy her character, even if i did want to spank her the odd time.



    Tamara is a mystery she unfortunately was completely abandoned. I have no idea what the plan for her was, she apparently is off in V world somewhere, and although Zoe worked so hard to be friend her, she was able to just as quickly abandon her. Obviously this was just a casualty of being cancelled early. If they didnt have enough time to wrap the story, they didn't. The same can be said for he GDD agents, and Daniels second in command that allowed them to escape. They did what they could with the time they had. They wrapped up and showed anything that could connect to the BSG series. Too bad it did not catch on, because like BSG it was a great series, like a fine wine you just needed to give it some time to breath. I would loved to see them wrap all the threads as they intended too. Too bad no one other than Syfy has the stones to air this, i think total viewers is the problem on Syfy in general. Oh well love the BSG universe glad they keep kicking the can, can't wait for Blood and Chrome. SO SAY WE ALL

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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [8]Jan 10, 2011
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    palpatine19 wrote:


    The Biggest thing you have to remember, is the original 5 skin jobs from BSG came from the destroyed earth found in the BSG series.


    ...


    So really the Cylons skin jobs from BSG could possibly have no connection too ZOE



    Trust me, I know :-)


    While the skin jobs didn't exist until 50-some years later, the Cylon collective did. I imagine that either the new 7 skinjobs got or downloaded some history / knowledge / etc from their toaster brethren.


    And I believe I mention the possibility that her existence was simply wiped from the "7's" in a similar manner that the identities of the "original 5" were wiped from the "7's".


    But considering the 7 models have talked about their religion and their past, I'm surprised that not even a shout out was made to Greystone Technologies or even a vague reference to Zoe since during the final season the writers at least had the broads strokes down for Caprica. Even something vague like "the first to turn" or "our first mother"



    Edited on 01/10/2011 7:07am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of sfviewer

    sfviewer

    [9]Jan 10, 2011
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    is the finale of caprica hinting on a tv movie? it looks like a lot of things were left unanswered.

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  • Avatar of haldrey

    haldrey

    [10]Jan 10, 2011
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    Questions, questions everywhere and if you want them answered better use your imagination. At least they gave us some kind of closure and a bridge between Caprica and Galactica.
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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [11]Jan 11, 2011
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    They may even get a chance to answer some of the questions with Blood and Chrome, as it is really only going to jump 18-20 years in the future, so hopefully they have some time to tie up some loose threads and fill in some holes from the original (new) BSG series. Specifically Zoe, Lacey, Greystones and Tamara. All in all great universe to play in, just wish more people would pick it up, before it gets cancelled.

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  • Avatar of Helostwin

    Helostwin

    [12]Jan 11, 2011
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    I hope so. For a while Laceys BF Keon Gatwick seemed to be a very intriguing, complex personality but Lacey actually has more levels than him it seems.
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  • Avatar of charenNZ1

    charenNZ1

    [13]Jan 23, 2011
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    I was really excited when news of this show started coming to light and I had such high hopes for it, now granted it was a little unimpressive, but the final 5 episodes certainly made up for it, they tapped into the vain of what made BSG so great. I think the reason it failed was because for a large part of it the series focused on the drama element, which is an important part of any series, but for the most part it lacked in the action and the suspense which it gained in the final episodes, if the network had let the final episodes run before making a decision to cancel the show or not, I am almost certain that those final episodes would have redeemed the series and saved it for a continued successful run. However sadly we won't get to see the future of this potentially great storyline, at least not in the same way.


    We will soon see the future of this franchise with the new BSG pilot Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome:



    Battlestar Galactica Blood and Chrome - Synopsis wrote:


    Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome takes place in the 10th year of the first Cylon war. As the battle between humans and their creation, a sentient robotic race, rages across the 12 colonial worlds, a brash rookie viper pilot enters the fray. Ensign William Adama, barely in his 20′s and a recent Academy graduate, finds himself assigned to the newest battlestar in the Colonial fleet' the Galactica. The talented but hot-headed risk-taker soon finds himself leading a dangerous top secret mission that, if successful, will turn the tide of the decade long war in favor of the desperate fleet.


    You can learn more at Battlestar Galactica: Blood and Chrome on Wikipedia


    This series fast forwards to the beginnings of the Cylon war, hopefully this series will outlast it's predecessor, and maybe we will see some nod's to Caprica now and again. Fingers crossed!


    A just a note that I wanted to make, in BSG we find that humans don't know about humanoid cylons until Raganar Station, so what about Zoe?


    You'll notice that the Zoe cylon seen in the final episode of caprice is a "slimmed-down" toaster/cylon - her internal anatomy, under the synthetic skin is all mechanical, yes she may have been an early ancestor to the "skin jobs" seen in BSG but she wasn't one of them, they are anatomically similar to humans.


    Zoe may have been the only human made, humanoid cylon - unique until the cylons made themselves in our image, just as god did us, we obviously don't know - perhaps the shows creators can do a web conference where they answer the fan's questions and let us know the future of the series had it been allowed to continue, here's hoping!


    Thanks to Ronald D Moore, Remi Aubchon, Alessandra Torresani, Eric Stoltz, Polly Walker, Sasha Roiz, Magda Apanowicz, Paula Malcomson, Sina Najafi, Avan Jogia and all the cast & crew for a great run. I had a fun time watching and wished it could continue, I wish you all the best for the future.

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  • Avatar of hoobydictator

    hoobydictator

    [14]Jan 23, 2011
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    charenNZ1 wrote:


    I was really excited when news of this show started coming to light and I had such high hopes for it, now granted it was a little unimpressive, but the final 5 episodes certainly made up for it, they tapped into the vain of what made BSG so great. I think the reason it failed was because for a large part of it the series focused on the drama element, which is an important part of any series, but for the most part it lacked in the action and the suspense which it gained in the final episodes, if the network had let the final episodes run before making a decision to cancel the show or not, I am almost certain that those final episodes would have redeemed the series and saved it for a continued successful run. However sadly we won't get to see the future of this potentially great storyline, at least not in the same way.



    I suspect that how the story was being told may not have been fully understood by all the viewers that saw it. This lead to the "soap opera" accusation that has been repeatedly thrown about with regards Caprica.


    There is a post somewhere in which the writer states that they found the characters unlikeable. In reality, none of these characters were really meant to be likeable. These are the people who influenced the attitudes of the Cylons, sentient machines who later go on to all but wipe humanity out, so quite how they were supposed to be nice folks is beyond me.


    In BSG, there is the line which states that children exist to replace their parents. The storytelling in Caprica basically operates from the premise that you are showing what the parents taught their children; what did the children learn that made them react in the way that they did? Most of Caprica dealt with the protagonists pursuing their overlapping agendas to the detriment of others. There was back-stabbing, violence, manipulation, greed and extremism in their actions all of which would have contributed to the Cylon psyche and their attitudes towards their creators. The Cylons in BSG were heard to look down upon human behaviour as if they had risen above it, so we now have the beginnings of how they came to judge humanity in this way.


    Perhaps if there had been some explanation of this in the same way that the BSG titles explained that humanity created the Cylons it would have made Caprica a little more accessible. That said, I have no problems with how it was written. They even managed to get to the point where they could pull an "Oh ****!" moment which does rather make me resent the fact that the show is at an end (I'm referring to the bit at the end of Ep14 where Lacy looks at the Cylon; it looks back and you suddenly realise that it knows her, that every Cylon knows her, and that she has the power to control them all).


    charenNZ1 wrote:


    This series fast forwards to the beginnings of the Cylon war, hopefully this series will outlast it's predecessor, and maybe we will see some nod's to Caprica now and again. Fingers crossed!



    I have the uncomfortable feeling that no amount of finger-crossing will save it. Sorry to be cynical, but we are into Babylon 5 territory here and Caprica was BSG's Crusade. My suspicion here is that the pilot gets made and is either not picked up as a series, or only manages half a season before being cancelled by the numbskulls at SyFy. Yes, remember which channel we are dealing with here. If it winds up being too intelligent for the WWE fans, then it's all over.


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    DygitalNinja

    [15]Jan 29, 2011
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    I didn't notice until this year (I only watch SyFy for BSG and Caprica) but SyFy is a haven for REALLY stupid television. It is amazing that BSG/Caprica ... that tackle such heavy hitting issues so directly ... got on this channel. As it is probably airing a marathon of mutant croc movies right now.

    But then again, Caprica's story was jumping forward to the first year of the war. And B&C is set in its 10th ... so they could weave some of the Caprica stuff in there.

    BSG had flashsback to before "The Fall" all the time. If B&C ever wants to explain how the war started, they pretty much have to explain how Caprica would have ended.
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