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Syfy (ended 2010)

This series makes no sense

  • Avatar of pgold38

    pgold38

    [1]Feb 1, 2010
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    In BSG we learned that when they found earth (the middle of the final season) it was dead, but the "final five" cylons lived on that planet many many years earlier (cannot recall how many). If this is the case, cylons pre-date the events of Caprica by thousands of years, and those models were the "parents" of the other skinjobs. They also seem to have some sort of control of the cylons that apparently are being created in the current series.

    So my question is, how does this all fit with what we know of BSG history?

    Thanks

    Phil

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  • Avatar of aidorrocks

    aidorrocks

    [2]Feb 1, 2010
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    *SPOILER ALERT. DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED ALL 4 SEASONS OF BSG* although there is no good reason not to have watched them all by now!

    anyway, i know what you mean. after BSG was over i was asking the same thing. as i remember it (someone please correct me if i'm wrong on any of this)

    * humans evolved on kobol

    * there they created cylons (i'm asssuming both toasters & skinjobs, not sure)

    * the cylons rebelled & they all eventually left on spaceships, the humans formed the 12 colonies & the cylons went to earth (the original)

    * the toasters on earth rebelled against the skinjobs & wiped them all out. (confused here - if thats the case where did the original toasters go & why were there so many toasters dead on the planet too?)

    * 5 of the original skinjobs managed to get the old resurrection technology from kobol sorted for themselves so that they'd be reborn into new bodies (tigh, ellen etc.)

    * approx 3500 years later humans on the 12 colonies had forgotten all about the original cylons, but coincidentally created incredibly similar robots to do their bidding.

    * they rebelled too & started a nasty war, which was stopped by the orginal 5. they done this by going to the cylons & promising them the technology for creating skinjobs & resurrection. so the cylons left the humans alone.

    * about 40 years later BSG starts. the cylons come back to wipe them out etc.

    wow, that was lengthy and doesn't really help. i suppose it could be looked at as "god" played a part in it & was all part of his/her plan. but that could just be seen as a cop out! maybe we'll see the head people (baltar & six) playing a role in it, influencing people etc. although they may not actually be played by the same people, but be the same kind of characters - messengers of "god" for want of a better name.

    Edited on 02/01/2010 8:20pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of pgold38

    pgold38

    [3]Feb 3, 2010
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    Is this your thoughts or is this part of BSG/Caprica canon? I would love to get an idea of the official word.
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  • Avatar of Timewhisper

    Timewhisper

    [4]Feb 4, 2010
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    pgold38 wrote:
    Is this your thoughts or is this part of BSG/Caprica canon? I would love to get an idea of the official word.


    Part of the cannon.
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  • Avatar of aidorrocks

    aidorrocks

    [5]Feb 4, 2010
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    pgold38 wrote:
    Is this your thoughts or is this part of BSG/Caprica canon? I would love to get an idea of the official word.


    well no one has corrected me on any of the history of the bsg/caprica universe, so i presume its accurate, tho i'm not sure about who wiped out the cylons on the original earth. maybe (and this is just an idea)the humans came from the 12 colonies & wiped them out & any record of ever having created them. anyway, thats just a theory i had. the stuff about "god" is just speculation as to an explanation for humans creating cylons, then thousands of years later forgetting all about them & creating them again.

    if anyone else has any theory about who destroyed the cylons on earth, please post it!
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  • Avatar of Invader_of_53

    Invader_of_53

    [6]Feb 5, 2010
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    I'm honestly not trying to be insulting or rude, but if you've seen Battlestar Galactica I really don't know what's so hard to understand.

    It's literally history repeating itself. Mankind keeps creating machines to do their bidding and God was trying to help both human and Cylon break the cycle that started all the way back on Kobol with the second Earth holding the potential to take a different future. Man and Cylon started all the way back on Kobol, split up, with both human and pseudo-humans creating and enslaving machines. The difference is that five of the people on the original Earth got a warning from "messengers" about what was going to go down and recreated resurrection technology to prep themselves for download when the entire planet is nuked. They take this knowledge to the humans on the Twelve Colonies, but were too late and found them at war with their machines as well. It's been long established before and after the revelation of the 13th tribe of Cylons from Kobol that the Twelve Colonies created their own as well and as far as the Colonials knew until that point, they were the first. In fact, the very existence of Kobol seemed to be relegated to scripture until it's discovered in "Kobol's Last Gleaming". Quite frankly, it's hard to say exactly what transpired on Kobol since it's recited in all vague, metaphoric mumbo-jumbo, but the revelations of "No Exit" put it in a little bit clearer context. However, none of this is needed to know to watch Caprica, but it adds quite a bit of depth for fans to know what has and will happen... again.

    The only outright fluke in aidorrocks assessment is that I don't believe the humans on Kobol created the skinjobs. Recall in "Valley of Darkness" that there were reported human sacrifices on the planet. After seeing the experiments being carried out by the Guardian Centurions on humans in "Razor", I believe this was the Cylons trying to develop human form by trying to retro-engineer the human body.

    Also, the destruction on the first Earth was clearly perpetrated by the Cylons as whole, a total annihilation on both parts, which is believed to be a possibility in nuclear exchanges here on our Earth.
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  • Avatar of Helostwin

    Helostwin

    [7]Feb 5, 2010
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    What makes no sense to me is how they mix advanced technology and a 1950s type society in this series. Of course, they mixed advanced technology and a 1970s type socirety in BSG too.
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  • Avatar of ebony_kunoichi

    ebony_kunoichi

    [8]Feb 10, 2010
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    thank you invader. It makes perfect sense to me if you've watched all of BSG. If you are confused about the mythos then go online and read battlestar Wiki. It helps a lot.

    I do believe the colonist on Kobol created the Cylons first and for some reason we humans are wired to keep creating robot slaves over and over again. I have no idea why everything repeats. Perhaps Capricia will come close to clearing this up.

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  • Avatar of aidorrocks

    aidorrocks

    [9]Feb 11, 2010
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    Invader_of_53 wrote:
    I'm honestly not trying to be insulting or rude, but if you've seen Battlestar Galactica I really don't know what's so hard to understand.

    It's literally history repeating itself. Mankind keeps creating machines to do their bidding and God was trying to help both human and Cylon break the cycle that started all the way back on Kobol with the second Earth holding the potential to take a different future. Man and Cylon started all the way back on Kobol, split up, with both human and pseudo-humans creating and enslaving machines. The difference is that five of the people on the original Earth got a warning from "messengers" about what was going to go down and recreated resurrection technology to prep themselves for download when the entire planet is nuked. They take this knowledge to the humans on the Twelve Colonies, but were too late and found them at war with their machines as well. It's been long established before and after the revelation of the 13th tribe of Cylons from Kobol that the Twelve Colonies created their own as well and as far as the Colonials knew until that point, they were the first. In fact, the very existence of Kobol seemed to be relegated to scripture until it's discovered in "Kobol's Last Gleaming". Quite frankly, it's hard to say exactly what transpired on Kobol since it's recited in all vague, metaphoric mumbo-jumbo, but the revelations of "No Exit" put it in a little bit clearer context. However, none of this is needed to know to watch Caprica, but it adds quite a bit of depth for fans to know what has and will happen... again.

    The only outright fluke in aidorrocks assessment is that I don't believe the humans on Kobol created the skinjobs. Recall in "Valley of Darkness" that there were reported human sacrifices on the planet. After seeing the experiments being carried out by the Guardian Centurions on humans in "Razor", I believe this was the Cylons trying to develop human form by trying to retro-engineer the human body.

    Also, the destruction on the first Earth was clearly perpetrated by the Cylons as whole, a total annihilation on both parts, which is believed to be a possibility in nuclear exchanges here on our Earth.


    although i have seen every episode of bsg & the specials, i think it's foolish to think that just because someone is watching caprica they must have seen all the eps & remember everything about the history.

    i have a few points to make with your post.

    1. you say that "messengers" came to the original 5 & told them what was going to happen. can you tell us who said that & in which episode?

    2. you say that the 5 went to the 12 colonies with the ressurection technology but found they were at war. did they not just go straight to the cylons & promise them the tech in order to stop the war? they helped the cylons create skinjobs & it was the cavil skinjob who put them on the 12 colnies. did the 5 say that their original plan was to go to the 12 colonies to give the humans the tech?

    3. you say "The only outright fluke in aidorrocks assessment..." now to me a fluke means something that was lucky/right. i said i presumed that they created both toasters & skinjobs but wasn't sure & you disagreed. how is that a fluke? also what do the human sacrifices have to do with whether there were skinjobs there or not?

    4. you make mention of things we saw in razor. yes, of course that was the cylons (that had been created by the 12 colonies) attempting to create skinjobs, but it doesn't confirm that kobol didn't have them.

    5. you say that the attack on the cylon earth was "clearly" perpetrated by the cylons. why? was it the toasters rebelling against the skinjobs? if so, how crap were they if they managed to destroy every single one of themselves as well as the skinjobs? if they didn't completely destroy themselves where did the rest of them go?

    i'm not saying you're wrong, i would just like a bit of clarification on your statements.
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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [10]Feb 12, 2010
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    Sorry to jump in here, but this is my understanding of the history to COME, as i know it...SPOILERS.

    Humans on Caprica will create the Cylon Centurions.(one model so far Zoe) At some point there will be enough of them to start a war with twelve colonies. Enter the Final Five from BSG. They get to the twelve colonies, hoping to prevent the Humans from even making Cylons, or at the very least to stop them from enslaving them. They get to the 12 colonies, only to discover that they are already at war. So they decide the best thing to do is make a deal with them. They have already been experimenting with Skin Jobs, and have been unsuccessful, so the 5 models agree to teach them how to make skin jobs, and resurrect. In return the Cylons agree to stop the war and leave the 12 colonies. they retreat to the mothership, and i are not heard from for 50 years, until they attack and destroy the 12 colonies. Because Cavil, sabotages the final 5 erases their memories, and puts them with the humans..

    This is the History as i know it will happen. the whole Kobol thing, 13 tribes start fighting(on Kobol),as the 13th tribe believes their ONE GOD is better. 13th leaves for earth (all Cylon skin jobs), 12 leave to form 12 colonies. Something happens on earth causing the extinction of the cylon skin jobs of earth. (nuclear war) The 5 leave to prevent everything from happening again. at the remaining 12 colonies.

    confused? so am i. But it does make sense...

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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [11]Feb 12, 2010
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    Sorry one thing to make clear....The "New" Earth the one that they settle on in the finale of BSG is the new Kobol, as there is humans and Cylon skin jobs living together again. So if history were to repeat, they would eventually form the 13 tribes of "earth", and eventually the Cylon skin jobs would get sick of the humans belief in many gods, and take their one god to another planet, and the 12 remaining tribes would separate and form the 12 colonies. Would eventually create Cylon Centurions, and war with them etc etc etc.
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  • Avatar of haldrey

    haldrey

    [12]Feb 12, 2010
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    I am still not diggin' this show. Feels like a 1950 sitcom of the future, sort of 'Days of our Future Live'. It is extremely slow plus the things that always baffled me of BSG, a very advance society with very old fashion cars, wardrobe and architecture. I do hope to see improvements in the show I do like the basic storyline.
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  • Avatar of MikeOrangeman

    MikeOrangeman

    [13]Feb 12, 2010
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    Only way I would explain it is that we are told throughout the series that "this has all happened before and will happen again". I think that opens the door to your imagination. Maybe the first Earth pre-dates Cobal and the Cylons were there....they were created again on Caprica...and they are being created 150,000 later on present day Earth...someone better call Honda, they've got to dimantle ASIMO!
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  • Avatar of MikeOrangeman

    MikeOrangeman

    [14]Feb 12, 2010
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    Only way I would explain it is that we are told throughout the series that "this has all happened before and will happen again". I think that opens the door to your imagination. Maybe the first Earth pre-dates Kobol and the Cylons were there....they were created again on Caprica...and they are being created 150,000 later on present day Earth...someone better call Honda, they've got to dimantle ASIMO!
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  • Avatar of Necromancer78

    Necromancer78

    [15]Feb 13, 2010
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    MikeOrangeman wrote:
    Only way I would explain it is that we are told throughout the series that "this has all happened before and will happen again". I think that opens the door to your imagination. Maybe the first Earth pre-dates Cobal and the Cylons were there....they were created again on Caprica...

    True, since the old earth had been through the annihilation cycle thousands of years ago, it's unlikely it descended from Kobol. But since Kobol had the temple and all which had hints to Kobol, they may have been connected at some time, maybe for example Kobol was founded by an offshot of old earth. Wonder how so many native races develop space travel aand then don't get much done for the next hundreds of years. For some reason though humans evolve time and again across the universe, independently. The people that lived on old earth were not skinjobs themselves I think, they were regular flesh and bone until the five figured out resurrection which they used to escape their apocalypse("figured out"..they didn't all strike me as scientists, but yet seem to have equal part in creating the tech..so it..don't know..was given to them in pieces?). With being resurrected though the five had to switch tonow bodies, which had to be artificially grown, which still doesn't make them the cylons we know but rather simply "artificial-body-people".They wandered around for a long time afterwards (and did what? we were never told) and finally stumbled across the twelve colonies, which were already at war with their own breed of machines. Too late to warn them to be careful when making that technological leap. So they turned, as pointed out before by others, to the cylons, promise to give them artificial body tech which can be used to create human looking cylons (which the machine-cylons were already working on but failing) (did the monotheism solely come from the groups like SofTO or did the five add some lore to the mix to make their new cylon buddies more balanced?). (BTW, why human looking cylons at all? It's nice to play hide and seek and all, but it certainly didn't help their evolution much, they got new, fragile and less capable boddies, only resurrection keeps them going. So I'd pinpoint this on some sort of religious motivation ("God made man in his own image" etc etc)

    After a couple of years Cavil, one of the created skinjobs turns on them. Somewhere along the timeline someone manages to to equip the machine-cylons with control devices (mental inhibitors it was called in the series) in order to keep them under control, so the skinjobs really take the lead of the cylons altogether. I wonder how much of Zoe's avatar/programming was/is still present at the time of BSG.

    As for BSG and Caprica in general, they both heavily rely on characters, the "science" from the "science-fiction" part is taking a back seat on this one. As is reason a lot of times. There are tons of things never fully explained (the first regular BSG ep for example, why was it 33 minutes now? never 31, never 42 or something else. Whatever happened to the Olympic Carrier while it was gone?)

    So as much as I liked the series, if they ever re-imagine the reimagination, maybe 20 years from now, they should think about continuity and making sense in the long run more :-)

    The suspense and all those question marks which popped up made it for interesting viewing though.

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  • Avatar of Invader_of_53

    Invader_of_53

    [16]Feb 15, 2010
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    Well, there seems to be a lot of theorising since my last looksee. My head is being torn apart about where to start, especially in the inaccuracies in the post by Necromancer78, which I'd dissect if I had time, but for now, I'm sticking with the immediate reply to aidorrocks:

    1) The "messengers" were mentioned in "No Exit" by Sam when he was expositing the backstory as memories were flooding in after taking that shot to the back of the neck. These beings warned what would become the Final Five about the annihilation that was about to go down, giving them time to rebuild resurrection technology. There is a reasonable amount of assumption that they may have been related to or even be the same spectre versions of Caprica-Six and Baltar of each other because it's mentioned that there was a man and a woman (and in the finale we see only these same two, making notes about their observation dating back to Kobol). If so, this might explain the look of the Sixes, but kind of confusing regarding how a being can take the form of a man who'd not be born for thousands of years and why Ellen, who recovered her memories, never made a deal of it. Oh, well. Maybe it's one of those pieces of the mythology that isn't necessary to detail.

    2) The Final Five raced to the Twelve Colonies in order to warn the colonials about treating their own A.I.s better, to not make the same mistake they did. The details about their interaction with the Centurions when they arrived is another one of those fuzzy things. But they figured that the least they could do is give the Centurions something they wanted (again, in "Razor" they were said to have tried themselves, but met failure) in exchange for leaving humanity alone.

    3) The human sacrifices were the people who were used by the Cylons to study human anatomy and eventually allowed them to "intelligently design" themselves to humanoid form. The revelation that Kobol was littered with such brutality lends one to the idea that, at the least, this when the Cylon began to tinkering with human design.

    As for the use of "fluke", I think I was trying to articulate with another f-word and "fluke" sprung to mine for some reason and I went with it. I usually double-check these things, but that one slipped by me. My mistake.

    4) I think I answered this with the above... or I didn't understand it.

    5) Well, seeing as how the whole theme has been Cylon rebellion and the planet was clearly radioactive like it had been nuked, just like the nuclear bombings on the Twelve Colonies, then I think an assumption bleeds into simple deduction. Yes, the toasters were uprising against a type of slavery being perpetrated by the humanoid form Cylons (just like in the Twelve Colonies). And while there is a perceived idiocy in killing yourself along with the pests, as I mentioned before, this is a likelihood when it comes to real-life warfare. If anything, the fate of that Earth is a good forewarning for what could easily become of our Earth. And again, this is why the messengers warned the Final Five, so that there would be survivors.
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