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Official Episode Discussion: A Deadly Game 2x24 (May 17)

  • Avatar of Auriken

    Auriken

    [21]May 17, 2010
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    Castle has always had luck with the ladies, did Kate expect him to just wait around while she was with someone else and pretty much doing all she could to make him believe she wasn't interested?


    Women really need to learn something important. If you make someone feel they're not wanted, even if you don't mean it, there is a huge chance that person will move on. No matter how much a man cares about you, there is a limit to how much most men will take before becoming frustrated. Men HATE heartache far more then women do, and we will give up if we feel like that ache is no longer worth it.


    Kate is a very strong minded, independent women but she has always made Castle feel unwelcome, and when she got a boyfriend he felt like he was less important to her, and she did absolutely nothing to assure him otherwise.


    So I can't really feel sorry for Kate. She kept stalling and this was the result.

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  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [22]May 17, 2010
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    BarryWeen3 wrote:
    nolefan32 wrote:
    And now that the second season is over, for the third season, I hope we don't see a lot of Beckett moping over Castle or getting pissy about him spending the summer with his ex - if this takes too much of a soap opera turn next season, I don't know that I'll be able to stomach it. I wouldn't mind more of an emphasis on a seasonal arc, some bigger storyline that runs for the whole season - we got a hint there might be that, with Beckett's mother's murder, but they only trot it out for an episode or so and then put it back into the closet. I'm reminded of the short-lived Women's Murder Club, which had a different case every week but then there was the Kiss Me Not Killer which cast a shadow over the whole show; for the Bones fans, there was the one season with the Widow's Son killer, referenced in some form in nearly every episode from the time he was introduced to the time he was killed (unlike Howard Epps, which was more akin to Beckett's mother's murderer, mentioned only in the handful of episodes that specifically dealt with him), even though most episodes were still not about him. Something of that nature would be excellent for keeping Castle and Beckett together as partners but distracted enough that they wouldn't have to deal with their personal baggage. Also for the third season, I hope they change up that little clip at the beginning. I get why it's there and it does do a nice job of introducing newbies to the fundamentals of the show in less than a minute, but having Castle and Beckett say their names a hundred times each gets very, very annoying, especially at the beginning of every episode.
    That would have been the Gormorgon killer(s). I actually liked Howard Epps and more recently the Gravedigger more than the Gormorgon storyline. Probably because of how the Gormorgon storyline was abruptly resolved (due to the writer's strike).
    Yeah, I know what the killer was called, but at first it was the Widow's Son and that's just so much easier to spell. And I do agree that the way that storyline was wrapped up was pretty crappy considering how much they'd been building up to it (we finally get the guy and he's "nobody important"? Geez!). Of course, Bones is another show that I've always felt had mediocre writing but which was saved by great acting (mostly Emily Deschanel in this case - David Boreanaz is not nearly as versatile as he clearly thinks he is).

    I only use that as an example because Epps and Gravedigger were handled so much differently by the writers. Except for the four or five episodes that Epps was actually in, it was as if he didn't even exist. Gravedigger wasn't much better - something like two episodes featured that killer, and maybe one or two more where Jack's moping about what he was put through. That's about how they're handling Beckett's mother's murder, it only gets mentioned in episodes that directly deal with it, maybe one or two more where Beckett has to tell Castle to stay out of it, etc., but the rest of the time, it's not even mentioned. Which is okay because that is a type of storyline that would get old fast if they kept drudging it up.



    But Castle and Beckett have reached a point where they've got three choices. (1) The writers can go the traditional route and keep coming up with BS reasons to interfere with them, a la Ross and Rachel. (2) The writers can let them get together and more than likely ruin the show as a result by spoiling the sexual tension. Or (3), give them some sort of overarching storyline for the whole season to keep them distracted from dealing with each other. A killer similar to Gormogon or Kiss Me Not would work nicely - always present, looming, but not necessarily the focus of each episode, just in the background enough to keep Castle and Beckett from dealing with their baggage.


    Having a serial killer out there would also give reason for Beckett and Castle to perhaps visit the serial killer from Tick, Tick/Boom, a la Silence of the Lambs, to get inside the head of the new guy. That was just too sweet of a storyline to be completely over - they need to re-visit it in some way, shape or form again.

    Edited on 05/17/2010 10:00pm
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  • Avatar of David8601

    David8601

    [23]May 17, 2010
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    Agreed, Kate pranced around with the Schlemming pretty much rubbing it in Castles face, I mean what did she expect would happen? Of course the guys going to move on. She was so either massively self deluded or massively self deceived or simply too selfish to realize what that was doing to Castle. I mean the clue should have been the two guys fighting in the coffee room and a ton of other things that the guys were doing. So either she knew which makes a gamer or she didn't which makes her massively self deluded. So much for being the keen detective. Castle decided to get out of the game Beckett was running and hooked up with someone else. You snooze, you lose and people will definitely move on. If one is going to be bound up with being so defensive then this is a very good example of losing things that matter. Hopefully S3 will bring better writing because the writers eviscerated the last few Ep's with this love triangle.

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  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [24]May 17, 2010
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    David8601 wrote:

    Hopefully S3 will bring better writing because the writers eviscerated the last few Ep's with this love triangle.

    Believe me when I say "uh, huh."

    I liked Demming in the first episode he was in, when they thought he was the killer. He made for a fun red herring. But since then, dullsville. He and Kate just didn't have any sort of spark that made me ever want to take him seriously as a rival for Kate's affections, and love triangles work best when there's chemistry all the way around. One of the best love triangles I've ever seen was Chuck/Ned/Olive from Pushing Daisies, but that was because even though I knew that Chuck and Ned were supposed to be together, I also found myself rooting for Olive. I never wanted to root for Demming.


    And the writers ended everything on a cliche, as well. I know this is a fan board for the show and I don't say this to be mean, only to be realistic - I just don't think the writers on this show are all that great. Nathan's great, and he's the type of actor I'd tune in each week to see him read the phone book, not to mention that he and Stana really click on camera, hence why I tune in - it's the two of them that make this show worth watching each week, as they take mediocre storylines and elevate them to goodness just by the power of their performances. But Castle is no Firefly, not even close.

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  • Avatar of sherv22

    sherv22

    [25]May 18, 2010
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    It's cliche, but it's not that much of a stretch. Beckett may be a detective for a living, but it doesn't mean she likes analyzing the people she works with like a case. Plus, I imagine she stopped paying quite as much attention to Castle while Demming was around until she got shocked into thinking about Castle not being around. Sorta the same theme they used for Castle, too; he did sleep with a starlet a few eps ago, after all. He didn't think about Beckett much until the new guy moved in on his familiar turf and got his competitive juices flowing.


    Which does make you wonder how serious Castle is, at least. He's slept with women before and presumably after the Demming incident, and he really only got interested when a threat presented itself. Beckett, on the other hand, is emotionally reserved, doesn't date much, and is a much bigger admirer of Castle's work (and now the person) than Richard is aware of, even from the start of the show.

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  • Avatar of gmx13

    gmx13

    [26]May 18, 2010
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    Fun episode. I know everyone is saying the ending was cliche and done before...but it kind of came out of nowhere...almost like it was decided on at the last minute.

    I wonder if it was because no one knew if S3 would get picked up so they had a couple endings ready to roll. One where Castle and Beckett end up with each other and the other (in case S3 did happen) was the lame "See ya' in three months" ending which we saw.
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  • Avatar of sherv22

    sherv22

    [27]May 18, 2010
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    It came from nowhere, but they basically dropped clues for the entire episode about his ex in the context of his book needing to be finished, enough to where I guessed what was going to happen when Castle started talking to Alexis about someone hopefully showing up. It helps if you watched the pilot and knew that his editor ex-wife happened to be a smoking hot blonde, of course.


    I've also read somewhere that they may be planning to explore why Castle's marriage with Gina failed, so this last-minute cliffhanger may be stuffed in to set up more than one of next season's plot lines. I'll admit to being curious, myself; Gina hasn't been around since the pilot, and I did wonder whether they were going to follow up with her and have her show up again like his other first ex, Alexis's mom, who clearly established why she wasn't compatible (makes Castle look responsible).

    Edited on 05/17/2010 11:31pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of Boomer76

    Boomer76

    [28]May 18, 2010
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    Horrible ending. Made no sense at all. One day he is asking Becket to go away with him and the next day he is asking someone he can´t stand to go with him because they talked for a few hours on the phone.. wtf


    They are making the same mistake the writters of Bones are doing with the lead characters of that show.


    They did not have to make Becket and Castle go away for the summer. They could have the daughter and Castle´s mom go with them. That would keep the tension for the lead characters while still giving a nice season ending.

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  • Avatar of David8601

    David8601

    [29]May 18, 2010
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    It came that quick because Kate told Castle that her and Tom were together now and didn't want things to be awkward (yeah right)
    After Kate said that I reckon Castle decided that's it....
    But I agree it was a very sharp turn to bring the the X in and if I recall in the pilot S1 they hated each other and now their off to the Hampton's for the summer??? (ho hum) S3 must be interesting.
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  • Avatar of sherv22

    sherv22

    [30]May 18, 2010
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    Why did it make no sense? It was abrupt because it was just one ep, but the logical flow through the episode was easy to follow:


    1) Castle discovers he's going to be alone in the Hamptons. Castle uses the opportunity to push the Hamptons to Beckett, who turns him down cuz she says she's working.


    2) Castle overhears Beckett talking to Demming and discovers she was lying and she actually turned him down to vacation with Demming.


    3) Beckett tries to explain to Castle that she lied because she doesn't want anything awkward at the office. Castle knows it'd be more awkward than Kate thinks, so he decides to use the Hamptons thing as an excuse to end his observation time. Beckett is shocked.


    4) Esposito lets Beckett in on the obvious thing she was oblivious to, that Castle was sticking around for her and not his book.


    5) Castle's poker buddies also wonder why he's sticking around with Kate rather than writing his book, since he's supposed to be there as part of his writing job. Castle wonder whether they're right and he should be doing what he's supposed to.


    6) Castle talks to Alexis before she leaves and establishes that he doesn't like to be alone and that he's never been alone for that long. Castle says he has a plan, which turns out to be him striking up a long conversation with his pesky editor-ex, Gina before.


    7) Kate decides to end her relationship with Demming after realizing she missed Castle more than she should.


    8 ) Kate tries to tell Castle how she feels and take him up on his Hamptons offer. However, Gina shows up since she and Castle have rekindled some spark now that Castle thinks Kate is going off with Demming, and Kate puts on a brave face, tells him she just wanted to wish him a happy summer, then fights back tears after he leaves. (Kudos to her, BTW, really sold it with the facial acting at the end.)


    So, it's one of those bad-timing situations where everyone mistakenly thinks the other has moved on. Castle apparently isn't much of a loner and decides to move on with his ex now that Kate's off the market (remember, he essentially quit first), not knowing she broke up with Demming for him. And Beckett unwittingly causes Castle to quit by lying to him about the Demming holiday thing, then doesn't realize the damage she's caused until it's too late and Castle's checked out from the job and trying to pursue her. They both were too scared to say anything because they thought the other was happy with someone else. Castle did move on pretty fast, but he did quit first while Beckett was still with Demming, and his ex-wife isn't just anyone off the street to him, even if she's a last-second appearance on the actual show to us.

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  • Avatar of fanofcastle

    fanofcastle

    [31]May 18, 2010
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    Ok, this is going to be a long rant so if people don't have the time and/or patience, here are the cliff/coles notes: this was a terrible episode and any one of us could have written a better ending.


    I have to admit that my harsh criticism of this show is in part due to the fact that I was looking forward to seeing this episode and even the nicest reviewer will say that this episode was mediocre at best.


    Ok, I'm going to skip the ending. It was been talked to death. It was Friend-ending and totally cliche (Castle = Ross; Beckett = Rachel; Gina = Julie; police station = airport). A "cop"-out. So, let's talk about the case. OMG. Another jealous significant other? Didn't we see this like 2 episodes ago (Food To Die For). And the wife/gf has the same line: Please don't tell my husband/boyfriend. And Beckett delivers the same line: Are you sure he already doesn't know? Holy cow. They could have given us a 2nd twist: the victim was a spy -- a corporate spy. He was trying to steal secrets so he could start his own spy-experience business. Or the business partner and the wife were in it together so they provided each other with false alibis. Anything but recycle material.


    Now, for the ending. Did the writers really need to "hurt" Beckett? I guess they're setting up for a season where Beckett is stone-cold to Castle and doesn't reveal her true feelings until he's shot in the season finale and he's in a coma. Of course he comes out but we don't know if he heard anything. It would be more interesting if she's shot and he's the one who figures out who shot her and goes after him/her by himself.


    I'm going to defend Beckett's actions. First, it's easy to see what's going out if we're on the outside. But when it's our feelings at stake, we don't see things clearly and actually distort our views. Now, in Beckett's case, we have to look at Castle like she does. He's obvious a playboy. She knows that he cares for her but can she tell that he loves her? No. He's always flirting and playing the "Big Bad Wolf" character. She can't trust him. And she can see he's jealous when she starts dating Demming but she thinks it's just his competitive side. He didn't get her - Demming did. But when Esposito tells her that she has to choose and he's not just after a one-night stand with Beckett, she does choose him. And then we get the stupid "Rachel-Ross-Julie" situation.


    Oh, nobody thought it was odd that while Beckett was breaking up with Demming, he didn't say something like: "It's because of Castle, right?"


    End of rant.


    First episode of Season 3: "A Shot Rang Out." Gina, Castle's ex, is found murdered in his beach house in the Hampton. Castle is arrested and charged with murder. It's up to Beckett to find out the true killer's identity.

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  • Avatar of kraylith

    kraylith

    [32]May 18, 2010
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    OH FOR F**** SAKE!

    -.-

    The tension between them is great but this back and forth.... c'mon.... You CAN overdo it...
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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [33]May 18, 2010
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    fanofcastle wrote:

    Ok, I'm going to skip the ending. It was been talked to death. It was Friend-ending and totally cliche (Castle = Ross; Beckett = Rachel; Gina = Julie; police station = airport).



    Does that make Demming = Paolo, and perhaps Espisito and Ryan are Chandler and Joey, and Lanie, hmmm...she has the fun side like Phoebe but has a steady job like Monica, but lack's Monica's neurotics and Phoebe's crazier tendencies. I think Demming = Paolo is a winner...
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  • Avatar of gmx13

    gmx13

    [34]May 18, 2010
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    LOL I don't see the writers being ballsy enough to kill Gina in the first episode of S3. More likley it'll take Castle about 10 seconds to tell Kate that he and the ex-wife quickly remembered why they became exes during their stay at the Hamptons.

    Castle goes back to flirting with Kate and Kate goes back to ignoring the fact that Castle is flirting with her while they solve another murder.

    I still say this ending was Plan B should the series not have gotten picked up for the next season. Plan A being Kate telling Castle how she feels.
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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [35]May 18, 2010
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    nolefan32 wrote:
    Nathan's great, and he's the type of actor I'd tune in each week to see him read the phone book, not to mention that he and Stana really click on camera, hence why I tune in - it's the two of them that make this show worth watching each week, as they take mediocre storylines and elevate them to goodness just by the power of their performances. But Castle is no Firefly, not even close.


    Of course Castle is no Firefly, there's not very many people like Whedon for great dialogue. The ensemble cast, which included Nathan Fillion, and the dialogue is what made Firefly so great. And I have to again throw in "DAMN FOX!!"...

    Inara (angrily): "What did I say about barging into my shuttle?"
    Mal: "That it was manly and impulsive?"
    Inara: "Yes, precisely. Only the exact phrase I used was 'don't'."

    Harrow: "You didn't have to wound the man."
    Mal: "Yeah, I know, but it was funny."

    Zoe: "Cap'n didn't make them fugitives."
    Kaylee: "But he coulda made 'em family. 'stead of keepin' Simon from seein' I was there. And I carried such a torch! And we coulda...goin' on a year now and I ain't had nothin' twixt my nethers weren't run on batteries!"
    Mal: (horrified) "Oh God! I can't know that!"
    Jayne: "I could stand to hear more."
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  • Avatar of addy91

    addy91

    [36]May 18, 2010
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    I loved the episode, but hated the ending.



    First of all - Castle watching 'His Girl Friday' at the beginning = WIN, it's one of my favourite movies!


    I really liked the case and the guy who was like "Am I REALLY in jail?!"


    The conversation between C&B about him leaving and then Ryan and Esposito showing up was great too.


    Oh and in the end when C&B went out to talk and the whole gang was watching them!



    The ending was exactly how I thought it would be and since of course I am not a talented writer of tv show scripts - IT WAS BAD.


    Season 3 will propably start with Castle and his wife already broken up, perhaps Beckett will have someone?


    I'm sure that she'll have problems trusting Castle again thinking that 'oh well, how can I trust a guy who supposedly has feelings for me but spends the summer in the beach house with his ex, blahblahlah'.


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  • Avatar of uk18flashback

    uk18flashback

    [37]May 18, 2010
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    The ending was like a cliche. The writers need to fix this problem. I love the show but there is only so much I can take!


    It wouldhave been better if they had ended with a cliffhanger like Kate saying 'I dumped Demming for you', showing Castle's reaction and END SCENE credits.


    But I have to say I love the poker games with the other crime writers.


    And the ex thing I was not really surprised cause we have been shown how Castle likes to revisit the past i.e Alexis's mom. So it doesn't seem that much of a stretch that Castle wants a little comfort from someone familiar to him.


    Kate only realising at practically the last moment she wants to be with Castle? Oh come on show us some respect!

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  • Avatar of SupremeLegate

    SupremeLegate

    [38]May 18, 2010
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    I enjoyed this episode, and I liked how the writers had Kate and Castle deal with their feelings for each other. Not with them confessing how they felt to each other, at least not verbally, but instead each of them coming to the realization of how exactly they felt about the other.

    In the last few episodes we saw Castle see how much he felt for Kate, sure he was attracted too her but now he realizes that it is more than a simple physical attraction.

    And I loved the scene where Kate makes the same realization in this episode, when Castle tells her he will be gone for the summer.

    As for the end, ok yeah it was kinda Ross and Rachel, but here it was done so much better. Here we have then both knowing how they feel for the other, and Kate knows at least knows how Castle feels toward her.

    But sadly when sadly when she is ready to admit her feelings he has made an attempt to move on. And on that note, I don't think anything is going to happen between Castle and his ex while they are away together. No real reason, just a feeling.

    I am not sure how things will be when season 3 picks up, but I figure they will both be single but be unsure how to proceed with the other.
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  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [39]May 18, 2010
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    BarryWeen3 wrote:
    Of course Castle is no Firefly, there's not very many people like Whedon for great dialogue. The ensemble cast, which included Nathan Fillion, and the dialogue is what made Firefly so great. And I have to again throw in "DAMN FOX!!"...
    I'll admit to not being crazy about Dollhouse - I think Joss finally built himself an Edsel there. But beyond that, Joss Whedon is one of the best show runners ever. You're right that he creates some of the best ensemble casts; I tend to be harsh about David Boreanaz' performance on Bones, but he was awesome as Angel, which to me shows that Joss had (a) casting directors that were great about finding the perfect actor to fit the role at hand (not to mention had tremendous chemistry as an ensemble), not necessarily the best all-around actors, and (b) writers that could write to the actors' limitations, as well as Joss himself and the other directors that could pull amazing performances out of not-so-amazing actors.


    Joss also has a great talent for writing material that always felt fresh. There's nothing new under the sun, everything out there's been done before, but never did I watch Buffy, Angel or Firefly and think, "I liked that scene better when I saw it on Gilmore Girls." But have you noticed how often we're on this board talking about Castle, and saying, "I liked that scene better when I saw it on Bones"? Or in this case, "I liked that scene better when I saw it on Friends."


    Now I don't mind it when those moments are clearly intentional, like "I was aiming for his head!" Those little homages are fun. But those moments also show that the producers are aware that there are a lot of us tuning in specifically because of Nathan, and the part that gets me is that if they know Browncoats are watching, why don't they also realize that our standards are higher than the kind of writing we're getting every week here? We're smarter than this.


    Of course, Castle isn't unique in the landscape of television. There's so few shows that do manage to rise above mediocrity, which is one of the reasons I don't tend to watch a lot of TV. Castle at least gets credit because even though the writing rarely rises above, it is loaded with performances that do rise above week after week. It's better than ABC's other show with a Firefly actor, V (featuring Morena Baccarin) - that show was just plain painful to watch, I gave up after the third episode (which hurts because I was really hoping to see Morena do a cameo on Castle, since she has a show on the same network, that sort of cross pollination is not uncommon).

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    d3x0x

    [40]May 18, 2010
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    Like many of you I found this episode to be a low point for the series, the writing was terrible and the resolution to the murder seemed to lack the panache of the episode's set-up with spies andassassins. Overall the last couple of episodes have been lacking in writing quality, one could possibly chalk that up to "Tick, tick, tick..." raising the bar.


    Many of you, like Mr Fillion himself, seem to think that if Castle/Beckett get together the show will loose it's appeal but I can't fully relate to that idea. In my mind it's the banter between them that make their relationship and the show interesting, something that Castle perfectly described with the help of Ying-Ying the panda. If the writers are good enough, something I'm doubting right now, the show can remain interesting even if they get together as the chemistry between Nathan and Stana is so great.


    However, Castle and Beckett getting together isn't something I'm expecting to happen soon. My guess is that the very impulsive Castle will finish the book in the Hamptons, alope with Gina and return unhappily married in the fall. Marrying Gina will of course be in response to believing he has lost Beckett, loosing his mother to Chet and feeling Alexis is slipping away. As Alexis is the foundation of Castle's existence it's only natural of him to run into the arms of someone familiar. Castle marrying Gina will reset the Castle/Beckett-relationship for season three and will easily provide the writers with a couple of more URST-filled episodes and a reason for Beckett to bury her feelings/moving on.


    The catch is how to bring the pair back together in a believable way, this will be a true test of the writers if they are to do it in a manner that is befitting the characters. Beckett asking Castle to come back seems out of character, Castle returning out of the blue also seems odd so I think the best way will be a crime. Like some of you I'm hoping for a season long arc, so a friend of Castle being murdered by what turns out to be a serial killer would restart their relationship and give them a reason to stay in each others orbit.


    Wow, didn't really intend to write this much but once the train of thought left the station I couldn't hit the brakes.

    Edited on 05/18/2010 6:02am
    Edited 2 total times.
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