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Official Episode Discussion: After Hours 5x08 (Nov 19)

  • Avatar of TesserT

    TesserT

    [1]Nov 18, 2012
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    Please use this thread to discuss episode After Hours. Enjoy!

    From ABC.go: While retrieving a murder witness, Castle and Beckett are ambushed, forcing them to take the witness on the run.

    Check out the promo over at ABC.com If I can figure out the code, we're golden! A mystery only Castle can unlock and a question only he can answer!
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  • Avatar of Canada_Michael

    Canada_Michael

    [2]Nov 19, 2012
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    The tension at the dinner was so unrealistic and out of character. Since when would Castle's mom be so rude & care that he likes baseball, it's not like she's being forced into going to or watching a game. It was a bad scene IMO. Why exactly is Kate always obsessing & worrying about theirrelationship, this early into it? Some doubts yes OK but this is beginning to be a regular theme. Castle really hasn't given her any reason to doubt him and his commitment to her, the fact he puts himself in harms way when he doesn't have to should prove it.



    Sure in the past he's been with lots of women & so what. I don't remember ever hearing that's why his marriages broke up, I was under the impression that he & his ex's drifted apart because they were young etc. Alexis's mom especially doesn't appear to be too keen even now to be a mother.


    On the whole it was an OK episode, but not great IMO.

    Edited on 11/19/2012 9:29pm
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    wildhoney66

    [3]Nov 20, 2012
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    i dunno if it was out of chracter or not. the idea was to cause drama for the show. and i dunno martha is a pretty blunt woman who doesn't always think on what she says, we do know that castle does the same thing so i'm guessing he gets that from her. also let me add that you left one thing out, kate hadn't made a comment about weather they made a mistake or not until that skinny dude i forget his name you know the witness/hitman said to her what he did and it planted the seeds of creating her doubt. before that she was i think just mad at martha and sticking up for her dad and he was just sticking up for martha.



    even thought it was martha's fault. and honestly i dunno if that was realistic or not maybe yes or maybe no. but i am grateful for them actually giving not only kate's dad some screen time in which he's only been in a very select few episodes. and we got more screen time than normal with the lovely susan sullivan. it's the most time on screen she's gotten all season so far. so i'm grateful i do wish Alexis was in it but i do get why this time she wasn't in it. it was a meet the parents episode and so they are forgiven.


    anyways, i loved the episode it was such a breath of fresh air compared to that horrible episode last week. and it does break my heart that there's only what 1 episode left of (2012) he he

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    haldrey

    [4]Nov 20, 2012
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    Of course it was a bit unrealistic, it was part of the light comedy that is always inserted to the cop drama storyline.
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    wildhoney66

    [5]Nov 21, 2012
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    oh i don't expect tv shows to be 100% realistic to be honest. they RARELY are! even the ones that are more truthful to life put in some stuff that


    isn't realistic. cause it ya know fits the story of the show. well the episode rather. another example would be CSI that show has a great deal of stuff that is real but it also has a great deal of stuff that is fake as well. so it's a bit of both ya know?

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    BarryWeen3

    [6]Nov 23, 2012
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    Canada_Michael wrote:


    The tension at the dinner was so unrealistic and out of character. Since when would Castle's mom be so rude & care that he likes baseball, it's not like she's being forced into going to or watching a game. It was a bad scene IMO. Why exactly is Kate always obsessing & worrying about theirrelationship, this early into it? Some doubts yes OK but this is beginning to be a regular theme. Castle really hasn't given her any reason to doubt him and his commitment to her, the fact he puts himself in harms way when he doesn't have to should prove it.



    Sure in the past he's been with lots of women & so what. I don't remember ever hearing that's why his marriages broke up, I was under the impression that he & his ex's drifted apart because they were young etc. Alexis's mom especially doesn't appear to be too keen even now to be a mother.


    On the whole it was an OK episode, but not great IMO.



    In regards ot his ex-wives, in Meredith's case it was because she cheated on him mainly, but also Meredith didn't really want to deal with being a mother either. As for Gina, I think their personalities clashed a lot. In both cases also, Castle loved both women but he wasn't in love with either of them like his first love Kira nor as deeply in love as he is currently with his true love Kate.


    With Meredith, he was young, she was young, they were having fun, and then she got pregnant and he felt he should marry her and thus the marriage ended up being part based on love on some level and a duty on another level. Meredith didn't want to deal with a child and kept to how she acted before the marriage, but Castle changed, so that marriage ended and obviously, Meredith cheating probably didn't help...


    As for Gina, my impression is that she was more serious than Meredith but as high maintenance and that Castle loved her because to a certain extent she kept him grounded as his publisher and he was probably looking at her as a possible mother figure for his young daughter. But I think the two of them were looking for different things from being together and that their personalities probably clashed too much.


    As to why Kate still worries at this point, I think she is fully committed to this relationship and is very much in love with Castle as much as he is with her. But somewhere in her subconcious she still has these sliver of doubts related to Castle's established past. I still don't think she really knows why his marriages ended and since she has declared herself a one-and-done girl, his past marriages and past womanizing ways are at the root of her doubts. I'm under the impression that this is a conversation that, hopefully, willoccur in the 10th episodewhen Castle returns in January.

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    wildhoney66

    [7]Nov 24, 2012
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    that's actually a pretty damn good way of putting it. i also don't think he's told her why his marriages ended either. he should have by now. but my guess is since this is a show the writers are having him tell her and us as viewers at the same time. when castle is ready i guess. or if it pertains to the episode maybe? either way it doesn't bother me that she's still got doubts since it still is a new relationship.



    and there's no doubt that he was a womanizer. she knows this as well. so that makes her nervous and i can understand this. but she also i think knows that to my knowledge he hasn't cheated on any of his women. even if they were short term relationships. as far as i know of course. and they are of course still learning about each other as well.



    he also never really talks about his past relationships either. with kira he kinda had to cause she was accused of murder. and him and kate were i think still friends but i don't think as close as they were later on. i dunno just a thought there.

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    BarryWeen3

    [8]Nov 25, 2012
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    The impression I got that even as a "womanizer" Castle was a gentlemen with any woman he's been with whether or not it wasa one-night stand. Look at how nice he still was with Ellie in "The Late Shaft" even after he realized that she was using him.


    And yeah, the only past relationships he's really discussed in any sort of details are Kira, his first love, and Meredith and Gina, his ex-wives.


    I also don't think he's been with as many women as Beckett might think he has been because of the most important female in his life, Alexis. Castle would go out of his way to protect his daughter from his liasons. I don't know if it was brought up in the show, I seem to recall it was, but didn't Alexis or Martha mention to Kate that she is one of the few females he's ever brought into the Loft and let interact with the Castle family to any large extent. I remember that was one of the things that Castle and Gina fought about was how he wouldn't let Gina into Alexis' life when they were married.

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    wildhoney66

    [9]Nov 26, 2012
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    i do remember that, i can tell you the episode but NOT the name of it. it's the episode where i believe Kate's apartment is blown up season 3 maybe? or season 2? one or other other i forget at the moment. and she's got no place to go and he demands to her in a way that she go back to his place and the next morning when i believe Kate is making breakfast i think it was Martha who said it to kate.



    and i believe kate was surprised to hear that. i also recall gina saying that as well. and castle did admit when he was dating gina again that she was right and he let her do stuff with alexis i believe. cause that was i believe a x-mas episode or it may have been for alexis b-day i forget but it was about concert tickets that i do remember.



    you may also be right about him not sleeping with as many women as she seemed to think he has. also i can't fault kate for that either cause when she 1st met him women were fawning over him pretty much and he was loving every minute of it. so she can only go by what she's seen with her own eyes. he did admit to giving the hamptons tour of the house in that one episode but he also didn't say how many women either.



    i am curious though how many women he's actually been with only cause it may if it's not a lot let beckett relax and realise he wasn't as big of a womanizer as she thought he was. you are prolly spot on about his marriages as well. but still i wish they'd do an episode sometime this or next season whenever. where he lets kate and us fans know info like this where we are only guessing.

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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [10]Nov 27, 2012
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    It's been theorized here and at other Castle sites and it's a theory I believe also that the image of Castle as a playboy and womanizer is just a facade/mask he portrays for publicity sake and to push sales of his books and may be an image that his publishing company wants him to portray.


    You know the saying "sex sells", so Castle as a single rich playboy womanizer living the "wild life" at clubs and such and signing boobs at book signings, and so on and so forth are all publicity methods of pushing sales of his books. Contrast that with what Castle has shown "off the stage" in being a caring and amazing father to produce someone as nice and mature as Alexis and the bond that you can see between the two of them and no matter how much Martha and Castle banter, you know the two really love each other. But the image of a stable family man is not going to sell as many books.


    That is why I believe that Castle hasn't been with as many woman as Beckett thinks, because I think that some of the women he's seen with are just for show and he hasn't really been intimate with as many of them as people think. I would guess that he probably had some flings after Kyra left him and his books started to sell, there's two forces at work at that period 1) he just broke up with his first love and 2) he's having his first experience withe seduction of fame. I would also guess that another period where he did something similar would be after his divorce from Meredith because she cheated on him although I would say he didn't do it for very long because the love and responsibility hehas forhis baby daughter Alexis. I don't think his divorce from Gina hit him as much as the break-up with Kyra or the divorce from DFT did.


    Castle's reactions after meeting Kate on the other hand are on another level. Here we see what being in love since Kira does to him as the Demming phase caused him to think reuniting with Gina was a good idea and he basically falls off the grid for several months. Things in the Josh/Gina part deux phase were better to an extent because Castle was in a relationship at the same time and I believe he matured some more and was able to handle seeing Beckett with Josh, not that it was double rainbows for him but he was able to handle it better. Then in the 4th season, his whole misunderstanding about why Beckett lied to him, he again goes off the rails with the stewardss and Detective Slaughter and distancing himself.


    Anyway, I think I'm rambling off my main point. That being how much of Castle's womanizing reputation is actually real? I think it's less than most people think. Especially after he started shadowing Beckett. His free time that isn't taken up with his writing, spending time with the daughter he loves, and all the time he spends helping out at the precinct, isn't really that much.


    Anyway, enough rambling on for now (too late. ).

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    Canada_Michael

    [11]Nov 27, 2012
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    The most important thing about Castle's past is not how many women he's slept with when not in a relationship, but the way he acts when in one. If cheating by him was a cause of his marriages breaking up then Beckett should be concerned. Since that's not the case her doubts are more about his status I think. He's a rich writer and she's a cop, I think she fears he will eventually get bored of her. They will obviously use this fear at some point to have them take a break from their relationship. It doesn't have to be anything earth shattering bad just something that makes Beckett feel uncomfortable. I can't imagine they wouldn't try to take advantage of a breakup story at least for a little while.

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    wildhoney66

    [12]Nov 27, 2012
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    didn't andrew marlow say something not to long ago that he wasn't going to go that route? that yes there will be ups and downs like in all relationships but that he isn't going to break them up.



    and again your theory sounds right. i do wish they'd use Alexis more though than have this season. she's barely in it. i loved this last episode well this one that this thread is about cause Martha was in quite a bit of it for once. i'm hoping that for the x-mas episode we will have some good screen time with alexis as well.

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    Canada_Michael

    [13]Nov 28, 2012
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    So I've heard but I don't think anything is written in stone or off the table. A one, two or three episode breakup wouldn't be a bad thing IMO, nothing long term. I think it would be really nice to see some scenes with Alexis and Kate.
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    BarryWeen3

    [14]Nov 28, 2012
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    Marlowe has said that he won't break them up in a several interviews. He will test the relationship with normal problems seen in any relationship, i.e. the ups and downs that normally occur. I think that is a much more realistic path to take as the whole "let's break them up then get them back together again" is so cliched and commonplace.


    As for how different they are as being part of her worries, I agree with that. Both of their romantic pasts are also going to be brought up. Hence the January episode "Significant Others" featuring the return of the DFT. As I said earlier, I hope they use this as an opportunity for a discussion on Castle's past marriages as I don't think that Beckett truly knows why those marriages failed.

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    wildhoney66

    [15]Nov 28, 2012
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    oh i agree and i can't wait for it either. i think it's honestly NOT only fantastic that's the only word i can think of at the moment that we have a show who is actually treating a relationship like it's realistic, but NOT doing the breaking them up and keeping them together over and over like most shows seem to love to do for some reason?



    i tend to get tired of that honestly. so it's nice and refreshing if Andrew Marlowe actually keeps his word.

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    BarryWeen3

    [16]Nov 29, 2012
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    My opinion on why the common pattern you see in couples with UST is get them together, break them apart, get them together, etc. is because there is some fear that they will lose the audience if they keep the couple together for any significant length of time and also because it is perhaps harder to havea couple in a relationship and still keep it interesting.


    Why I love what's happened on Castle is that Marlowe and the writers kept the couple apart just long enough, i.e. there is a certain point where a couple has to be put together romantically otherwise the couple either wanders into a "just friends" or "brother/sister" territory or the obstacles keeping the couple apart just become too obvious/unrealistic/etc. and they gave Castle and Beckett a natural progression in their relationship, i.e. collegues to friends to best friends to partners to lovers.


    I think AWM has said before that Castle is a grand love story wrapped inside of a procedural.

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    wildhoney66

    [17]Nov 30, 2012
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    i 100% agree with you on this, the best example is and yes i know i've said this before and if i have i apologize but it's the only time that i can think of where a show's creators actually admit they were wrong when it comes to keeping people apart. and that's the show "Friends' where it's creators said a few years back i think it was? on how they were surprised on how Monica and Chandler worked out so well. and how popular that was by fans. they also said that they broke Ross and Rachel up to fast. it was in season 2 they got together well the end of it anyways and halfway i think it was in season 3 they broke them up i believe. yet they show ran nearly almost a decade by the end of the show's run.



    from the time they broke them up until they got them together in the finale. and i think they had the idea of what you just said about how they feared fans would lose interest in the 2 of them together. they feared that the show would i'm guessing lose it's fan base so they kept the will they or won't they on until the finale. and i think they had those to sometimes sleep together and stuff like that to keep fans happy.



    my point is that i think if it's got the right writers and the right casting you can believe if certain characters are done well. with friends i think they were afraid of trying new things like "Castle's doing where we get the funny moments and the serious moments, and the fights in short like it's been said the ups and downs of a relationship;. and most show's don't get it right, i've been watching 'grey's anatomy' season 3 lately i've got the first 6 seasons on dvd. and on that show some of the relationships the writing is good and some of them were what were they thinking?



    such as any show. but as much as i love the show castle and the show is pretty much mostly about his and Beckett's relationship. i also don't want the writers or the creator to forget about the other characters of the show. and it's easier to do it i'm sure on a show like say 'friends' but with a show like 'castle' where it's a crime show you will get people complain oh it's not about the crime anymore but the relationship.


    with castle it's always been that really as the chracters have gotten closer. this doesn't bother me at all cause the show is about them and always has been. but i also would love if they paid attention to the other chracters as well. with a show like say "Bones' people complain


    that show is more about the relationships than the crime itself. i think the reason for that isn't cause the show's gotten bad in fact i have really loved this season so far. the writing on having booth and bones together has gotten immensly better than it was when they 1st got together.


    and we now have bones the character more human and her character is still continuing to develop further ahead instead of going backwards and forwards like it was doing before. which is how show's should run where the chracters continue to develop. like in the show 'castle' for example. but on bones i think the reason it moved to relationships more than it did in the first 3 seasons isn't cause the writing got bad than.



    it's more so like that the writers decided to make the show not only about the leads but also about the other chracters, in short have them be chracters instead of just in the background like it happens on some shows. but also pay attention to the crime as well. yes some seasons they have gotten carried away with the chracters instead of the crime. but when they write in a serial killer like the current one and they band together it's more believable that all this has happend and it shows why they care about each other. and the comedy doesn't bother me.



    castle's like that as well. were it's got more comedy than other episodes. it helps keep i think the chracters sane on what they do for a living.


    especially if your job is seeing dead people all the time and trying to catch who did it. it worked very well like that on 'boston legal' as well.



    anyways sorry about my ramblings here as well. but you get what i'm saying i'm sure. and for going off topic a bit here. sorry about that

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    BarryWeen3

    [18]Dec 7, 2012
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    Going off-topic on threads in TV.com forums? Pshaw, never happens...Wink

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    wildhoney66

    [19]Dec 12, 2012
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    well i say that cause you never know on some sites where some people i'm not saying anyone here can be pretty damn rude and mean if people do go off topic. so i just play it safe that's all. yes i know you are kidding i'm just saying that's all

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    BarryWeen3

    [20]Dec 14, 2012
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    It's not just here. I moderate a comic books forum called Millarworld (named after Mark Millar creator of Kick Ass, Wanted, writer of Ultimates, etc.) and let me tell you...threads get derailed pretty quickly over there, mainly due to the arguments that spring up and also due to certain posters that just love to argue for the point of arguing. And that other Castle forum I mentioned to you, CastleTV.net, I've also seen threads there derailed, but there it's due to people going off on random related tangents of the initial topicrather than arguments.

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