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Official Episode Discussion: Always 4x23 (May 7)

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    TesserT

    [1]May 5, 2012
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    Please use this thread to discuss Monday's season finale Always . Enjoy!

    from ABC.go.com: Castle tries to protect Beckett as she pursues the man who shot her. The 12th precinct is forever changed as feelings and secrets are revealed

    Check out the promo over at ABC.com They will kill you Kate! Head over heels! I remember everything!
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    heytiger93

    [2]May 6, 2012
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    I'm a spoiler whore, so naturally I've watched all six sneak peeks and all ABC and CTV promos . GAH, I am definitely going to be an emotional puddle after Always. It's been the world's worst distraction from uni, I swear. I'm not too worried about the hiatus as I get a month off uni from late June to late July so I'm headed to New York then . That's one thing to look forward to during those 4 months . But OHHH MYYYY GAAWWWDDD is this finale going to be epic, or what?! Aaaaand I honestly think season 5 is going to be the most amazing one yet. Ugh, I need to calm down, still over 24 hours to go .
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    NiallB31

    [3]May 6, 2012
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    I can not wait for this episode. I also watched the sneak peeks and it made me think I want Monday here right now. Forget that I want to have seen the episode already. The promo looks so good. Its going to be an epic finale. But once the episode airs we have nearly 5 months until we find out what happens next.


    This finale and the Desperate Housewives finale are the two finales I am looking most forward to this year. Castle has kept me on the edge of my seat since season 1 and in the last few weeks I have been rewatching the first 3 seasons (6 more in season 3 to go) and here in Ireland we are only on 4-10 so I have a bit of a wait until the finale but I am looking forward to reading the reviews for the episode.

    Edited on 05/06/2012 3:32pm
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    TylerA46

    [4]May 8, 2012
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    Average episode. At least now, they won't be able to ignore this storyline, since the killer won't ignore it either.

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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [5]May 8, 2012
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    actually i enjoyed it. but to each their own i guess.

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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [6]May 9, 2012
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    Yeah, I can finally post again.


    I loved the finale. Really intense from start to finish.


    Two favorite scenes were Castle's confession in the middle and of course Beckett's confession at the end.


    Liked the appearance of Helo/Agent Ballard, too bad he's the bad guy now.


    This should be an interesting season 5, with the team fractured, Beckett off the force, the mysterious conspiracy coming after her without any restraint, and what developments will there be the Caskett relationship.


    This would be a good time to introduce Castle's father...

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    Canada_Michael

    [7]May 9, 2012
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    I don't understand why Ryan was given the cold shoulder, since if he didn't tell Beckett would be dead. Also the fight on the roof didn't really make sense, the object should be to escape not actually talk to Beckett. The damaging evidence is still with the mysterious man at that point, so if Beckett died whoever is behind theconspiracywould be in trouble. Sure the guy attacking Beckett is only hired by the person behind all this but even he would know what would happen to him, if Beckett died before they had the evidence.

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    giggs92

    [8]May 9, 2012
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    I loved this last episode and finally they are together at least for now although for a second I thought Castle was going to reject Kate at the end. I find the conspiracy is getting more and more complicated which I guess will be the theme in season 5.

    Edited on 05/09/2012 12:01pm
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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [9]May 9, 2012
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    Canada_Michael wrote:


    I don't understand why Ryan was given the cold shoulder, since if he didn't tell Beckett would be dead. Also the fight on the roof didn't really make sense, the object should be to escape not actually talk to Beckett. The damaging evidence is still with the mysterious man at that point, so if Beckett died whoever is behind theconspiracywould be in trouble. Sure the guy attacking Beckett is only hired by the person behind all this but even he would know what would happen to him, if Beckett died before they had the evidence.



    But at this point the mystery man doesn't want to not only find the evidence that Capt. Montgomery had but he wants Beckett dead period. Cole Maddox was already tracking down Mr. Smith and didn't really need to know what Beckett know. And it's not that Bekcett knew that much considering Castle was the one who knew of the evidence and was hiding the existence of both Mr. Smith and the evidence from her. He said as much in his confession speech.


    So yes, the fight made sense as Beckett at this point is marked for death and they were already trying to find Mr. Smith through Capt. Montgomery's laptop and the wedding photo album and it was Castle not Beckett who had the direct connection to Mr. Smith.

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  • Avatar of nutcrackr

    nutcrackr

    [10]May 10, 2012
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    Episode was good, seems the majority love it based on the 9.7 rating. The writers are intent on dragging this johanna beckett conspiracy for as long as possible. I don't think the show needs it anymore and if anything it kinda drags it down. In those early seasons, with dick coonan etc it was fresh and interesting. Now it's just a step in an endless ladder. After beckett got beat down it made sense for mr army dude to walk away, best case would be beckett hanging on for 5 mins and falling to her death while he escapes. He can always get her later. Some of the character reactions weren't great for me. I really think they needed to make the episode into a 2 parter anyway.

    It will be interesting to see how they start the next season. They could "unwrite" the last section if they really wanted to but I'm not sure they'd go for it. Took 80 episodes for caskett to passionately embrace each other. Not bad going, Chuck jumped the shark when the two leads married and eloped. In that show, the writers were good enough to make the rest of the series slick and funny although never quite as good. We will see how clever the Castle writers are soon enough. My hunch is that they will simply find a way to restore the status quo with little damage done.
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  • Avatar of TylerA46

    TylerA46

    [11]May 10, 2012
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    BarryWeen3 wrote:


    This would be a good time to introduce Castle's father...



    Yeah, they really need some CIA help, but this retarded Castle didn't think of it all this time, he only stared at a useless screen with some pics.


    Canada_Michael wrote:


    I don't understand why Ryan was given the cold shoulder, since if he didn't tell Beckett would be dead.



    Because Esposito is an idiot? He should thank Ryan. Some things the writers do really doesn't make sense and doesn't fit with the reactions of real people.

    Edited on 05/10/2012 4:20am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Canada_Michael

    Canada_Michael

    [12]May 10, 2012
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    BarryWeen3 wrote:

    Canada_Michael wrote:


    I don't understand why Ryan was given the cold shoulder, since if he didn't tell Beckett would be dead. Also the fight on the roof didn't really make sense, the object should be to escape not actually talk to Beckett. The damaging evidence is still with the mysterious man at that point, so if Beckett died whoever is behind theconspiracywould be in trouble. Sure the guy attacking Beckett is only hired by the person behind all this but even he would know what would happen to him, if Beckett died before they had the evidence.



    But at this point the mystery man doesn't want to not only find the evidence that Capt. Montgomery had but he wants Beckett dead period. Cole Maddox was already tracking down Mr. Smith and didn't really need to know what Beckett know. And it's not that Bekcett knew that much considering Castle was the one who knew of the evidence and was hiding the existence of both Mr. Smith and the evidence from her. He said as much in his confession speech.


    So yes, the fight made sense as Beckett at this point is marked for death and they were already trying to find Mr. Smith through Capt. Montgomery's laptop and the wedding photo album and it was Castle not Beckett who had the direct connection to Mr. Smith.



    They are trying to find him is not the same as finding him. All that would have to happen is the man with the evidence hears Beckett is dead, & he goes & mails the evidence. The deal has nothing to do with what Beckett knows, she stays alive package is not sent she dies it is. A fight of some sort had to happen for the guy to get away I guess for the guy to get away, but once he had the opportunity to run he doesn't take it. He stays and talks to Beckett even though he has no idea if backup is coming.
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  • Avatar of CrazyAsian1080

    CrazyAsian1080

    [13]May 10, 2012
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    Canada_Michael wrote:
    BarryWeen3 wrote:


    Canada_Michael wrote:


    I don't understand why Ryan was given the cold shoulder, since if he didn't tell Beckett would be dead. Also the fight on the roof didn't really make sense, the object should be to escape not actually talk to Beckett. The damaging evidence is still with the mysterious man at that point, so if Beckett died whoever is behind theconspiracywould be in trouble. Sure the guy attacking Beckett is only hired by the person behind all this but even he would know what would happen to him, if Beckett died before they had the evidence.



    But at this point the mystery man doesn't want to not only find the evidence that Capt. Montgomery had but he wants Beckett dead period. Cole Maddox was already tracking down Mr. Smith and didn't really need to know what Beckett know. And it's not that Bekcett knew that much considering Castle was the one who knew of the evidence and was hiding the existence of both Mr. Smith and the evidence from her. He said as much in his confession speech.


    So yes, the fight made sense as Beckett at this point is marked for death and they were already trying to find Mr. Smith through Capt. Montgomery's laptop and the wedding photo album and it was Castle not Beckett who had the direct connection to Mr. Smith.


    They are trying to find him is not the same as finding him. All that would have to happen is the man with the evidence hears Beckett is dead, & he goes & mails the evidence. The deal has nothing to do with what Beckett knows, she stays alive package is not sent she dies it is. A fight of some sort had to happen for the guy to get away I guess for the guy to get away, but once he had the opportunity to run he doesn't take it. He stays and talks to Beckett even though he has no idea if backup is coming.


    Actually the deal was as long as Becket didn't keep digging the evidence would keep them from trying to kill her. That's why Castle stays and tries to prevent Becket from investigating further.

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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [14]May 10, 2012
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    Canada_Michael wrote:
    BarryWeen3 wrote:


    Canada_Michael wrote:


    I don't understand why Ryan was given the cold shoulder, since if he didn't tell Beckett would be dead. Also the fight on the roof didn't really make sense, the object should be to escape not actually talk to Beckett. The damaging evidence is still with the mysterious man at that point, so if Beckett died whoever is behind theconspiracywould be in trouble. Sure the guy attacking Beckett is only hired by the person behind all this but even he would know what would happen to him, if Beckett died before they had the evidence.



    But at this point the mystery man doesn't want to not only find the evidence that Capt. Montgomery had but he wants Beckett dead period. Cole Maddox was already tracking down Mr. Smith and didn't really need to know what Beckett know. And it's not that Bekcett knew that much considering Castle was the one who knew of the evidence and was hiding the existence of both Mr. Smith and the evidence from her. He said as much in his confession speech.


    So yes, the fight made sense as Beckett at this point is marked for death and they were already trying to find Mr. Smith through Capt. Montgomery's laptop and the wedding photo album and it was Castle not Beckett who had the direct connection to Mr. Smith.


    They are trying to find him is not the same as finding him. All that would have to happen is the man with the evidence hears Beckett is dead, & he goes & mails the evidence. The deal has nothing to do with what Beckett knows, she stays alive package is not sent she dies it is. A fight of some sort had to happen for the guy to get away I guess for the guy to get away, but once he had the opportunity to run he doesn't take it. He stays and talks to Beckett even though he has no idea if backup is coming.


    Taunt is probably more like it than talk...


    True the deal worked out by Mr. Smith was probably no evidence (collected by Montgomery)is mailed as long as they leave Beckett alone. But the other part of that deal was that Beckett would stop investigating the conspiracy behind her mother's murder which is what Castle has been trying to steer Beckett away from all year.


    We know from previous experience and also Kate's response to Castle's confession that she wasn't going to stop now that she had this new lead. And the mystery man behind the conspiracy knew that too. I mean we know Kate later comes to the realization that solving the conspiracy behind her mother's murder doesn't have to be all that her life is about, but that's later.


    My guess is that the mystery man wasn't going to let the blackmail/deal with Mr. Smith stand and by initiating the break-in at Capt. Montgomery's house, he was both trying to find Mr. Smith and the evidence and then he was going to have Beckett killed, deal or no deal. The sniper, Cole Maddox, said as much right at the end of the episode when Mr. Smith says "We had a deal!", "No, what you have is blackmail."


    At the time of the fight, Cole had already determined who he was looking for and also where Mr. Smith was I believe, so the fight was both for a means of escaping as you say but also an opportunity to kill Kate. And so he stayed and taunted her a bit and then went after Mr. Smith. He was a professional so I'm pretty sure he was aware that backup might be coming so he didn't stay that long and if she didn't die then, he could always kill her later.


    One of the reasons Kate kept the investigation among the four of them was her fear of other cops being on the mysterious man's payroll and if there were eyes and ears in the 12th precinct, information could have been relayed that the team was going the investigation alone. And that too could have influenced how things played out on the rooftop.


    Anyway...


    Still a great finale in my mind. Gonna be a long summer as there are so many interesting threads to pick up next season.

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    wildhoney66

    [15]May 10, 2012
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    i agree it was a great finale. if you read some of the posts on the IMDB boards. people are already picking the flaws to death of the episode. it's NOT even funny. i loved it like you did. i also liked how Castle at first stopped her when she was kissing him. i also am curious how they will do next season as well. i read in an interview last week that Andrew Marlowe did & he said that are going to bring back the topic of Castle's dad again next season. he of course didn't say that we'd find out who his father is.



    but i didn't expect him to either to be honest. & also i hope they don't do the have the have them sleep together. than have something happen that drives them apart, like them being blackmailed or something i dunno yet, that keeps them apart. to drag that on the rest of the run.



    that i think would piss a LOT of people off. & turn them off as well. i have no evidence they will do this of course. i am just saying i hope they don't go that route. what would be great is if castles dad is in the CIA weather he's retired of still active. if they find him & he helps them finish find who did it. if they don't go that way. i can live with that. but it'd be great if they finish it off in the season 5 premire. also i dunno if anyone has noticed here. but Castle has offically been renewed!

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    BarryWeen3

    [16]May 10, 2012
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    I agree it's time that Castle's father enters the picture. I wonder if they'll go the route of Castle's father helping them against the conspiracy.


    Here's a weird idea, what if Mr. Smith is actually Castle's father? Nah...


    Now that Beckett's out of job, how about they join the CIA to search for Castle's father? Heh, heh...


    But yeah, I saw the Castle renewal along with the Once Upon a Time renewal on The Futon Critic.


    Now I'm only wondering about Body of Proof (probably going to be cancelled), CSI: Miami and CSI: New York (likely NY is cancelled and Miami will be renewed for one more season, although I would prefer it the other way around as I like the NY cast and storylines more than Miami), Sanctuary (in limbo due to the Comcast-Universal merger/takeover), and Unforgettable (probably going to be cancelled).


    I'm sad that Flashpoint and Fringe are ending at 5 seasons each.

    Edited on 05/10/2012 10:53pm
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  • Avatar of Nat6386

    Nat6386

    [18]May 11, 2012
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    OMG i tried to reply as soon as I watched the show but it wouldnt let me I LOVED IT, barryween you are right, the two scenes, castle telling kate directly he loves her and there fight and then that end scene WOW, ive watched the episode SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE FINALLY ANDREW MARLOWE DELIVERED ON HIS PROMISE on getting them together and can i just say...

    BONES HAS NOTHING ON CASTLE IN THE SHIPPER ASPECT!!!!! it was just perfect

    also i think ryan was right in doing what he did, but espo got angry cause he just got put on admin leave by his best friend/partner technically, ryan should have been there and he could have helped beckett on the roof i think thats where esposito is coming from cause he feels like ryan betrayed him and i think that would be a real reaction, especially for a cop who relies so much on his partner, but im glad ryan did tell the captain also i think, with all the black ops style of working, that now more than ever, Castles dad IS the 'sleeping dragon' or else involved in a big way....

    but am loving to see where the show will go now with beckett not a cop and espo on leave and the guys who is hunting her down!!

    LOVE Castle and Beckett !!!
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    BarryWeen3

    [19]May 11, 2012
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    Yeah, for some reason the website was having problems from I think Sun till about Wed. I couldn't post either. The tv.com representative I talked to just said to keep checking as they were aware of the problems. The weird thing was that not everyone was affected as I noticed some posters were still able to post as normal during that time period. Hence, why the forum traffic died down for a while.

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    Canada_Michael

    [20]May 11, 2012
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    I hope the don't do a reset on their relationship, I don't think those type of things ever work well. I believe they will keep them together, because otherwise there would be no logical reason for Castle to stick around. They have established Castle is no longer their forresearch but because he loves Beckett, & you can't put that genie back in the bottle. There will be ups and downs in therelationship but I can't see a protracted breakup, & IMO the coming season will probably be its last. The relationships on this show are positive & upbeat overall I can't see them ending the series with Beckett & Castle not together.

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