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Official Episode Discussion: Always 4x23 (May 7)

  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [21]May 11, 2012
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    If you read what Andrew Marlowe has said about what's being planned going into season 5 about their new relationship and what he's said in the past, you wouldn't fear them doing the whole put-em-together-break-em-apart dance with these two. Marlowe has always said he considers the Castle/Beckett aspect of the show a love story along the lines of The Thin Man and such. He thinks that even after you put the two together, their opposite dominant personalities will still make for good storytelling even being in a relationship.

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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [22]May 12, 2012
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    i do remember him saying something like that. i do remember his saying in season 3. well right before it started actually that this season meaning season 3 those 2 won't get together. & at the time i do remember being dissapointed, but at the same time i was thrilled that he let us fans know ahead of time rather than be pissed about it come seasons end.



    he said that Castle & Beckett but mainly Castle isn't there quite yet to be in the type of relationship that a woman like beckett normally has. or something along the lines of that. so when i watched season 3 i at least wasn't expecting with those 2 to actually happen. but i didn't read or see any interviews for season 4 saying that. before it started i mean. or hell even after it started. but he has said the reference to "The Thin Man" many times & he's the 1st guy who runs a show like this who i can think of who thinks that way.



    i mean if you look at the "Thin Man" films though they are married in the films & later the tv show. you see them bicker with each other. & sometimes fight, but there's also a LOT of good comedy in the material as well. so i think if he thinks that way i think it will work having them together. i dunno why everyone thinks next season will be it's last. cause each show is different. sometimes it does kill a show but NOT always,



    i mean look at "Bones' they FINALLY put those 2 together. & it i don't think killed the show. the ratings for that show if you look them up going back to the 1st season. has never been "Fox's" highest show during any timeslot they put it in. regardless if people prefer the early seasons or still enjoy it now. that's a bit like "Castle" it's the same way it's never had 20 million viewers either. & some may say that "Bones" this season isn't their best. but actually i think it's a LOT better than last season. & unlike "Hart Hanson" who for some reason didn't want us fans to see them at least kiss well in the sense that we got from the finale on "Castle'



    'Andrew Marlowe" at least listens to his fans. most of the time. i dunno how often he does. but he was smart enough NOT to drag it out to 6 seasons like "hart Hanson" did. to be fair. & as for "Bones' it's coming back next season. so there are fans still out there for it. regardless if there are fans who tuned out. that show as much as i still love it, has made a lot of mistakes to be fair. but i still enjoy it. the finale to "Castle' i'm sure has flaws but i'm not really trying to pick it to pieces. it was either way a great episode. sorry for my ramblings here. by the way do you have a link to his interviews?

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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [23]May 12, 2012
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    Here you go wildhoney66,


    Here's the EW one: The Inside Story on the Moment


    Here's a link to several articles that wetpaint.com has on the creator, cast, and crew reactions to the finale and what's coming for season 5: Castle


    Those are the main ones I've looked at, they're probably are more.

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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [24]May 13, 2012
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    thanxs for the links. man i can't wait until next season. a LOT of people say & with good reason to be fair. on how on how some shows when they put characters together it can destroy a show. & they would be right. sometimes it does. but NOT always. i think on some shows they wait far to long to put them together. no need NOT to mention the show "Bones" for example or hell even "The X-Files" as another example where they waited far to long. than he got kidnapped! or something like that.



    it's been awhile since i last watched the show. but this time i dunno, it feels like it won't kill the show. i don't expect them NOT to have troubles cause that wouldn't be realistic if they didn't. but i like the idea of more scenes of 'Castle" being mature in some parts. than in others he can also joke around as well. in short i don't want him to be immature like he was in season say season 1.



    i am curious how they will handle it when they are at the station though. the writers i mean. what will 'Gates" reaction be? the guys prolly will say it's about damn time! but anyways i think everyone here can agree with me on one thing though. i'm curious on how he is in an actual relationship? i mean sure we've seen hints of him being in one. but it was never with the right woman. anyways thanxs for those articles.


    i was stunned that "Andrew Marlowe' admited that it would have been bad story telling if they waited any longer! that's a 1st for a show runner to be honest! he's right too. he in another interview said they had also run out of idea's to keep them apart. & they didn't want to start repeating themselves. which is also smart. cause let's face it a LOT of shows do tend to do that. some may say that 4 seasons is to long to keep them apart. i actually disagree. cause let's face it the 1st season had only 10 episodes for one. 4 seasons i can live with. now on "Bones" them waiting 6 seasons that's far too damn long! anyways thanxs for the links again

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  • Avatar of Nat6386

    Nat6386

    [25]May 13, 2012
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    BarryWeen3 wrote:

    Yeah, for some reason the website was having problems from I think Sun till about Wed. I couldn't post either. The tv.com representative I talked to just said to keep checking as they were aware of the problems. The weird thing was that not everyone was affected as I noticed some posters were still able to post as normal during that time period. Hence, why the forum traffic died down for a while.



    Yeah I know me too! thanks for letting me know it wasnt just me!
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  • Avatar of Nat6386

    Nat6386

    [26]May 13, 2012
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    wildhoney66 wrote:

    i mean look at "Bones' they FINALLY put those 2 together. & it i don't think killed the show. the ratings for that show if you look them up going back to the 1st season. has never been "Fox's" highest show during any timeslot they put it in. regardless if people prefer the early seasons or still enjoy it now. that's a bit like "Castle" it's the same way it's never had 20 million viewers either. & some may say that "Bones" this season isn't their best. but actually i think it's a LOT better than last season. & unlike "Hart Hanson" who for some reason didn't want us fans to see them at least kiss well in the sense that we got from the finale on "Castle'



    'Andrew Marlowe" at least listens to his fans. most of the time. i dunno how often he does. but he was smart enough NOT to drag it out to 6 seasons like "hart Hanson" did. to be fair. & as for "Bones' it's coming back next season. so there are fans still out there for it. regardless if there are fans who tuned out. that show as much as i still love it, has made a lot of mistakes to be fair. but i still enjoy it. the finale to "Castle' i'm sure has flaws but i'm not really trying to pick it to pieces. it was either way a great episode. sorry for my ramblings here. by the way do you have a link to his interviews?



    Personally I dont watch bones anymore! I used to not watch Castle cause I didn't have time for it, but then caught a few eps and LOVED IT and continued to watch it. Bones i loved from the get go but I watched the first few episodes of this season, and its been pathetic really. HH did drag it out too long and then didnt even give us fans the moment we were hoping for! I know im over the show, the first time this has EVER happened to me cause i like to watch a show till its close, but I dont even miss that Im not watcing! Andrew marlowe, I think is a FANTASTIC creator and ideas man because you're right he listens to his fans and keeps them watching!!
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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [27]May 13, 2012
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    for awhile it did seem like he wasn't doing that to be honest. & i may Love the show 'Bones" but i do freely admit that they've done stupid things.


    actually this season is a LOT better than last season. to be honest. anyways, i do LOVE his remark when last season ended, i think he said it either before or after it aired. where he said he was going to turn off his twitter account for awhile cause fans were going to be pissed. he was right. & i wonder if he did do just that. some people may not have liked season 4 as good as the other seasons. but let's be honest. we had the other seasons where it was mainly Castle slowly falling in love & admitting it to himself. & others too.



    this season we had kate finally admitting to herself that she has feelings for him. & to a shrink too. i think it was a good season to be honest.


    & a season like this NEEDED to happen for them to get together. i also liked how Castle was the one who told her all the secrets & she didn't hear it from anyone else. & why he did it. so it was something that wasn't hanging over them after they got together. so that's always a plus. to start a relationship honest ya know?



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  • Avatar of JonathonWolf

    JonathonWolf

    [28]May 13, 2012
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    I'm glad they got Beckett and Castle together now versus dragging it out as well. Feels more natural. Bones dragged it out too much without any real obstacles and then threw them together only because Emily Deschanel got pregnant. So, the fans got what they wanted but not really how they wanted. And then you have another side which I haven't seen mentioned in these discussions is a situation like Micha and Pete on Warehouse 13. These are two characters that interact in a way that you know they love each other, but the fans won't get mad if they don't get together because it's already been established as a very strong friendship. If they do get together, great; if not, it won't really feel like a betrayal.
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  • Avatar of Canada_Michael

    Canada_Michael

    [29]May 13, 2012
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    I think Beckett & Castle have a lot better chemistry, & are far more enjoyable to watch then Bones & Booth are. The whole fish out of water thing got tedious after awhile on Bones, & the whole relationship felt awkward IMO. For me when they made Zack a serial killers accomplice was when the show started going down the tubes. Castle & Beckett have a mutual respect for one another that comes through in their scenes, whereas with Bones I often got the impression she thought Booth was beneath her.

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  • Avatar of CjTl2005

    CjTl2005

    [30]May 13, 2012
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    I find on the issue of character relationships on TV shows, that the show cannot last much longer after they finally get together. The main reason I say this is that the shows tend to get plenty of mileage out of the question of whether they actually will hook up. That has been the main element of Castle from day 1.

    After the characters do hook up, there's two or three ways to deal with it.

    One way is you can remove the characters from prominence in the show. This will not happen because Castle and Beckett are the most important characters on the show.

    Another way is to break them up again later on. Lots of stress this way. They care about each other but they just don't work together for whatever reason. But when you get into the whole "they're together. They're not. OK Now they are", flip flopping -- your trying to maintain interest after that element was resolved. It becomes tiresome and people lose interest.

    Lastly is to try to keep the stable, committed relationship intact. Jim and Pam from the Office has gone this way, but the show as a whole has kind of fallen apart lately.


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  • Avatar of pscf3

    pscf3

    [31]May 14, 2012
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    TylerA46 wrote:

    BarryWeen3 wrote:


    This would be a good time to introduce Castle's father...



    Yeah, they really need some CIA help, but this retarded Castle didn't think of it all this time, he only stared at a useless screen with some pics.


    Canada_Michael wrote:


    I don't understand why Ryan was given the cold shoulder, since if he didn't tell Beckett would be dead.



    Because Esposito is an idiot? He should thank Ryan. Some things the writers do really doesn't make sense and doesn't fit with the reactions of real people.



    Are you kidding? Esposito got supended for his job, he has every right to be mad.
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    Canada_Michael

    [32]May 15, 2012
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    Not really because if Ryan didn't say anything Beckett would be dead right now. It would be different if he wasn't knocked out & Beckett wasn't in danger. If Ryan hadn't said anything and Beckett died he & Ryan would've been fired. I see Ryan as being the same as Castle in this situation, he cares about Beckett and is willing to make a decision that could cost him friendships.

    Edited on 05/14/2012 11:21pm
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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [33]May 15, 2012
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    I agree with you, I don't think what Ryan did was wrong. I also don't see anything wrong in Esposito's response either.


    It's the same way how you can see both sides of the argument Castle and Beckett had in her apartment.


    The secrets and the deal Castle made was done to protect Beckett and because of his love for her. Her anger at him for trying to run her life and lying to heris also valid.


    Similarly, Ryan telling Gates what was happening and providing back-up was the right thing to do. Espisito's heat of the moment reaction to what he felt was Ryan's "betrayal" was also valid.


    Like I said, you can see both sides.

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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [34]May 31, 2012
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    3 weeks later, and this episode is still blowing up parts of the internet.


    The Caskett shippers especially are going through serious Castle withdrawal, at least according to the comments I've seen.

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    wildhoney66

    [35]May 31, 2012
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    you better believe it, & so much so that i had a dream recently where i watched the season premire of next season!Laughing

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    NiallB31

    [36]Jul 10, 2012
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    Always a perfect episode in every way. It is the best episode of the entire series so far. The episode was perfectly written, they story was easy to follow and after a season of no knowing, we see the face of Kates sniper.


    Loved every moment of the episode that I watched again straight after I first watched it. There were a lot of strong Kate/Castle scenes. When Beckett told him to leave, that we are done for good, I couldnt believe it. I cried also. Such a powerful scene. And the last scene is the scene that we all wanted for 4 seasons and 80 episodes. It was perfect. And everything that happened at the precinct with Ryan and Esposito. Loved it. And Gates suspending Kate and Esposito was amazing. Gates had not many powerful scenes in the season but they gave her one memorable one.


    We were promised an Unforgettable season finale and trust me the promo didnt lie. 10 out of 10. Perfect in every way. Roll on season 5.

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    wildhoney66

    [37]Jul 15, 2012
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    well ladies & gents. in the newest issue of tv guide that i got in the mail last week. in the premiere or rather i mean in the NEW season. they aren't going to just have them sleep together apparently. they will be in a relationship! i guess Castle will be trying NOT to screw it up & i'm using what Andrew Marlowe said about next season. meanwhile Beckett will be apparently worrying about becoming his 3rd wife!



    also since he's already said back when the finale aired either before it or after it i forget when i read this online. they will of course touch upon who his dad is. the GOOD NEWS is & yes that does deserve to be capitalized! he he. anyways i guess we will FINALLY LEARN who killed Beckett's mom!



    apparently. & if you are going to ask me if they plan on doing this in the premiere the answer is i have no idea to be honest. my theory is that it prolly won't be until sweeps until either November or Feb. maybe? either way that's my guess. though i honestly prefer them just say screw it & reveal it in well maybe a 2 hr. season premiere. i doubt we will get a 2 hr. one but hey a guy can dream can't he? using Marlowe's words is he said he wants to give Beckett some form of Closure. & it also will go hand in hand with her telling Castle that her emotional wall she's working on. yes in the finale i think it was? or close to it she said it's no longer there. i just meant that if they keep them as a couple



    to have her mothers' case solved we won't have to worry about Castle hiding anything from her if he is forced to. or really anything like that. on curious thing he did say was in the case of say "Moonlighting" he said the mistake they made in that show is having the leads sleep together. & than break them apart instead of putting them into a relationship. so that's i think why he is partly putting them together. to avoid all that.



    honestly i don't think i ever even saw that show. but he may be on to something to be honest.

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    NiallB31

    [38]Jul 16, 2012
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    Season 5 sounds like its going to be a great season. I definitly dont want them to do a Moonlighting thing and break them up after a few episodes.


    I think the writers should wrap up Becketts moms murder in November in a 2-hour episode (Castle do amazing 2 parters, just imagime what they could do in a 2-hr episode!!!). November would be perfect to wrap that up. I think Beckett and Castle should keep their big night a secret from the others for a while and the viewers will be wanting them to tell everyone and the build up would be nice.


    As long as the dont get married too soon. I do think a marraige would ruin the show. I can see the show being renewed for a 6th season today, but that depends on Season 5's ratings, and if season 6 happens it might be the last and they could get married near the end of the season. Now thats only my thought on the whole thing, you can agree with it or disagree with it. I will probably find myself changing my opinion when I actually see season 5.


    Edited on 07/16/2012 9:36am
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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [39]Jul 16, 2012
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    1stly by the impression i got from Andrew Marlowe when i read that & various other interviews he did around the time of the finale. i pretty much got the impression that he'd have them together for at least awhile. yes there will i'm sure be drama on some stuff. but comedy as well.



    so i really doubt he'd have the break up right away. i do like the idea of them keeping their relationship a secret but i really doubt they will be able to keep it from say Alexis or Martha. i did forget to mention i think that in that same article in tv guide he also said that Alexis will still be working with Lanie. which i love. so if they do keep their relationship a sercret. i'm sure Lanie or even Alexis will figure out something's different between them. my guess is they may do the same thing when oh sh*t i can't spell his name right now it escapes me the spelling of it, anyways when he was with Lanie. & they tried to keep it a secret. yet EVERYONE knew about it. & pretty much was waiting for them to tell them.



    yea that would be copying themselves. but honestly the BEST i've seen a show do with that was on the show"Friends" when "Monica & Chandler" were keeping their relationship a secret & the way they revealed it was i think the funniest i've ever seen a show do! anyways i think you talking about them getting married is waaaaaaaaay to far off. if they had them get married it would ruin the show. cause it's just to soon.



    if the show is still on in a couple of years from now & they still have them as a couple than yes i DO think they should have them get married. again on the show "Friends' they waited a couple of years before they finally had them hook up. & i liked that. it was more believable & it gave us fans a chance to see that a show can work with stuff like that happens when they put characters together. as for the 2 hr. episode if they don't do it in the premire. which i doubt than i agree they should do it in prolly november. cuz if that dude that looks like he's about to get whacked at the end of the finale gets killed than i'm sure they will have in due course open the premiere with Castle & beckett



    my guess in bed & than at some point maybe gun fire? that dude going after beckett. though that sounds like the only i can think of them starting the new season. i also hope they don't destroy or rather attack his home. oh i'm sure if you read some of my posts back i already said that. but that's the only way i can think of them starting the season. others may have different ideas & that's fine. i'm all ears.



    i think waiting as long as they did for "Castle" was long enough to be honest. i say that NOW since i've learned they are going to be written as a couple. but if you look on either this site or on the IMDB forums you will find people saying they waited to long. yet they will also complain that getting them together can ruin a show as well on the next breath. at least they did it right on "Castle" i love the show Bones yet they did a terrible job at getting them together. & HOW they got together was even more stupid. plus they waited far to long as well. 4 seasons & under 100 episodes unlike say Bones is long enough i'd say.



    anyways. it also sounds like we are pretty much on the same page don't you think? he he

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    shoestring25

    [40]Jul 16, 2012
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    well finally got round to watching it disliked most of season 4 so stopped watching it half way thought the series. episodes 20, 21 and 23 werent to bad and the finale was ok thought they dealt with castle and becket getting together really well. the reason i stopped watching was it really started to take its self too seriously gone are the banter and funny situations of series 2 now its a cop show all about the crimes. and this Johanna becket thing is really beginning to drag now.



    they need to step up their writting from the lazy uninspired writing of season 4 or they could be in danger of not getting a season 6

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