Finally, someone agrees this storyline is just like Angel. (Season 4 with Jasmine) To be honest, I think many storylines of Charmed near the end are getting unoriginal. Or too similar to Buffy/Angel for my liking. Anyone else agree with me? An alright episode though. I like Season 4+5 best.
Avatars are neutral, they cause the entire world to be happy everyday. Whatever they do, humans won't get emotionally involved. Just like what happened to Piper when Leo is killed. What the crap is this? Didn't the writer of this episode realize how stupid this episode is? especially after the episode "Extreme Makeover: World Edition"? An episode full with rubbish and nothing happened. Leo tells Phoebe that she can change everything, so why don't the avatars do something after they realize Phoebe knows, as they are watching the sisters? Are the avatars so stupid? This is the WORST EPISODE in this series.
Both were wonderful, but a little predictable, Bad guys not really the bad guys but the good guys, then the bad guys that turned into the good guys really were the bad guys. The girls hate them at first then they trust them, then they dont trust them.
It was a good story line, but I knew what was going to happen way before it happen.
Rose does it to me everytime, She did it when Richard took his power stipping position and she did it when Kyle died. Her voice gets really soft and sad and I can hear the tears in her voice. I just cry like a two year old. She is such a wonderful actress..
Like the demons and men on the show (other then Leo) Knowing that most of them do not last long I try not to get too attached, but of course I always do. Oh how I wanted Kyle to last longer on the show. How did Piper say it? 'they are blessed as witches but cursed as woman". That is so right..
In EMWE how funny was it to see the sisters paranoid? Piper asking if Leo was seeing someone else, Paige saying "Im not? Then, who am I? after Piper said she wasnt herself.. And Pheobe just generally freaking out. It was commical.
Of the two charmageddon was by far my favorite. Mostly because of Pheobe's premonition, Seeing Andy and their grandmother and Cole ( Oh My God Cole!) and Big Chris even if it was to see them die, It was just so awsome. Sady like always all we got to see of Prue was her tomb stone. I doubt that will ever change. One can only hope.
Leo said it the best, before he vanished, "it suppose to hurt" What we think as perfect my not be perfect. Good has to have bad, How would we know one from the other with out both.?
My Bits and Pieces.
Is Holly feeling fat? she had a over sized coat on in Charmageddon and in Emwe. a very ulgy sports coat and it looked like she kept putting her purse in front of herself..
What was it with that snow globe? They must have picked it up about five times and made it a focal point at least twice.
Paige seemed more upset that Kyle was dead then Piper did about Leo. That could have just been me.
How old is Wyatt now? How come he doesnt have any lines let?
they started well (with extreme makeover world edition) buti don't think i well be able to sit through this episode again and i have watched nymphs just want to have fun several times. So in charmageddon everything starts of fine but then everything gets dull and when someone dies everybody is just like no that's okay i will be alright and nobody even cares that people are dead. There was one goos part to this episode when the charmed ones and zankou the charmed ones go to the avatars hide out and piper and zankou start blowing them up and throwing energy balls at them.
For a storyline thats ha lasted since Cole in season 5, this finishing of the storyline could have been a whole lot better. For an episode that was promoted so well it was a true disappointment. The storyline was one of the worst i have ever watched, Brody is a whitelighter? Absolutley pointless, although that may be because I am not a huge fan of the character. But the thing that annoyed me most was the fact that there was absolutley no showdown between the charmed ones with Zankou and the avatars, they seemed far too receptive to the idea of giving up all they had worked for not even attepting to fight them for it. Overall it was a disappointing episode, but it ended the avatar storyline and tht is why it deserved a 5.
As a conclusion to the Avatar arc, this is an energetic, well-written episode of Charmed. Charmageddon (love the title!) brings the story to a close with the sisters realising that the Avatars were up to no good all along and coming to terms with the fact that Utopia just isn't possible.
Charmageddon has Leo discovering that the Avatars kill people in the new Utopia who show signs of their inner demons rising to the surface. Leo manages to tell Phoebe what they are doing but just before Zankou's demons attack a party at the manor and kill Leo.
It's a good development to have the sisters working with Zankou to bring down the Avatars and it was creepy seeing Piper (her mind altered in Utopia) so happy despite her husband's murder. It's slightly predictable that Leo gets resurrected at the end but for some reason, the Avatars tell the sisters that they can't resurrect Brody.
It's disappointing that whenever Leo or one of the sisters is killed on the show, they can be immediately brought back to life but when it's with a boyfriend of either Phoebe or Paige, they have to stay dead due to production costs and how much money the guest star wants. It was nice resolution to the Paige and Brody storyline however when, at the end, Brody returns to Paige and reveals that he has been made a whitelighter. I personally can't see why the Elders would grant that duty to somebody who has displayed psychotic tendencies in the past few episodes but I'll just let that one go. Charmageddon is an interesting and exciting episode which, thankfully, ends the Avatar arc, which I was getting extremely bored by.
when leo realizes that the avatars were holding back information and utopia is morally wrong...he joins forces with zankou to stop utopia, meanwhile trying to convince the sisters that they must go back to fighting demons.
i have to say...having the whole avatar thing come in and leo become an avatar behind the elders' backs was okay because it's something new..but the plot seemed really dragged out and all i have to say is THANK GOD that plot ended the way it did because i was sooo tired of hearing "he's moved on to a better place" in this episode.
i almost started to cry when Leo was telling Phoebe to remember the losses and the pain of lossing the people you love to evil. then he told her to go to the book of shadows, which she did, and the premonition she got of all the people she loved who died was sooo incredibly sad.
It is nice to see the writers in action in this small series. That what started as a little thing with McMahon/Cole, turned into a decent storyline.
Things go good and bad for all the right reasons, and here you see a group that is not evil, because they fight it, but at the wrong price. In the end, you can question the issues of free will and the effects of choice. But it is stated in a nice way. Freedom comes at a high price, we should never forget this.
The people playing here did an excellent job, especially the extra\'s (visiting guests).
Wow, a new world utopia. In this world everyone was helpful and if people were mean and caused conflicts the Avatar had erased them. They would just disappear. Just like Leo. Leo wanted the world back the way it was even if they were to deafeat evil.
in the new world everyone was happy and helpful and nice to other people. the three sisters were blissful because there was no demons anymore. But if the people were not like that then the Avatars would erase the person. Leo wanted the world back how it was even if he were to fight evil everyday. Leo didn't feel something right; he thought something was wrong but what. Leo took Phoebe to Kyle's apartment to show her how kyle died. But Phoebe knew that there were reasons behind why Kyle was killed by an Avatar. But at the end the world is back to normal.
I want to like this episode but it had so much bullcrap in it.
Firstly, I believe Leo being skeptical. He knew they were creating utopia and no demons but perhaps he didn't see this lack of free will and mind control, especially of those he loves.
SERIOUSLY at Brody... I mean god just effing hell. His death was completely justified. He was a homicidal maniac who was willing to hurt Paige and Phoebe to kill an avatar (only they don't remember that). He found out the truth and didn't seem to change AT ALL he was still convinced they're horribly evil. He basically summons an avatar just to kill her.. No real reason, not like Beta had done anything wrong either. AND HE BECOMES A WHITELIGHTER. I feel like that's a joke to everyone else that wanted to be one. But the elders hated the avatars so they probably made him a whitelighter just because, not that he'd actually done any good (um hello, sheridan?).
This episode was wayyy too reminiscent of the Angel episode when the characters tried to achieve a sort of paradise but it ended up being more like hell. The world seemed perfect at first, but then they realized that there was no free will, and that the "goddess" was killing people every day. Similarly, in this episode, they made paradise, found out there was no free will and that the Avatars were killing people. The only difference was that in Angel, they implied that by setting the world back to normal, the team ruined world peace, whereas in Charmed, setting the world back to normal was seen as the right decision. There have always been similarities between Charmed and the Buffyverse...it would just be nice to see a little more originality.
This was a good episode, it was exciting and unexpected. But what was the point of even having the Avatars if they were just going to reverse the change. It was 6-8 episode we had with the Avatars, so about 2 months worth of shows, and in the end nothing is really changed. Actually the Avatars were first introduced back in season 5, when the Avatars tried to recrute Cole. So everyone anticipared that something more was going to happen in the future with the Avatars, and finally 2 years later they come back into the light only to reverse everything they worked so hard for. It was a good episode and all but the whole Avatar scheme was kind of pointless if they just reverted everything back to normal.
While the Charmed Ones enjoy their new conflict-free world, Leo learns that in order for the Avatars to protect their Utopian world, they also control everyone's destiny by deciding who lives and dies. Wanting to stop the Avatars, Leo joins forces with Zankou to undo the change. Unable to convince Piper, Phoebe and Paige that the Avatars kill innocent people, Leo gives his life, causing the sisters' to join forces with Zankou to reverse time and return the world to the way it was. Finally, Paige receives a special surprise and Leos fate relies on the Elders.
I thought the episode was overall pretty great. However, I do have some complaints. During Phoebe's premonitions of all those they lost, I was not fond of the fact they went out of order, though I do enjoy the scene. The Utopia wasn't anything special special like Phoebe's previous premonition would've led you to believe. The disappearance of the Avatars was anti-climatic. They spent all this time building up to the impeding doom or the uncertain fate the Avatars would cause or create, and there wasn't much to show for their disappearance. Avatars were overlyhyped and didn't produce as much of a bells and whistles finish as I expected. That was a disappointment, but I'll admit, I'm glad they're story was done and over with because they grew tiresome and boring after the first few episodes of season seven.
The Charmed Ones are selfish??
The episode makes us think that the girls are selfish. why we should believe??? Utopia brings peace to the world, make all the witches and magical comunity frre and peaceful... and all that is shown is that the charmed ones did it because they wanted this way!? I should have been written better!! After alll they wanted a better world
The Avatars are bad??
Another fail from the writers. Why they show the avatars that way?? i really think that they're not bad and they're not a threath... The kill, I know, but what they want is a better world. What's wrong wih that??? Even if you wanna see them as "bad" is very difficult! They don't wanna do nothing wrong
a great episode???
It's a strange episode doesn't it? I think it's great. The figth in the house, the premonition, the zankou-charmed team... It's great! (all those things make the seven season my personal favorite!!) And the Paige-Kyle talk was awesome! Paige is so great actress... Ilove her!
Anyway... How the *** Leo remeber it???
I don't get it, it's imposible!! If he did'nt get the spell he should be dead... or maybe because he is an avatar he just was bring to live... It gives me headache!!XD
Charmageddon was a perfectly entertaining episode of Charmed and I really enjoyed watching because there was a lot of great character and plot development. It was interesting to see the new world and to learn of the true price for it's maintenance. I was happy to see Leo step up and really be a man above all other things. There was lots of action, drama and intrigue as the story unfolded. I liked how it all played out and look forward to watching what happens next!!!!!!!!!
Charmageddon-Leo discovers that the Charmed Ones' conflict-free world comes with a higher price than anticipated, so he must join Zankou to stop the Avatars and reverse the change.
Well, the Avatar arc ends in this solid episode where the sisters and Leo see the error of their ways and join forces with Zankou to stop them. I have to admit, this Avatar plot is probably the most complex storyline the writers have done in years. Reminiscent of Alan Moore's "Watchmen" and the Jasmine arc on "Angel", The Avatars are anti-villains when you think about it. They have changed the world and create a universally perfect world yet it's at a great cost. Humans no longer have free and the few who still have the ability to create conflict are removed, essentially dead. Now Leo and the sisters are left with a huge decision: do they continue to leave in this new peaceful world they helped to create, despite the few playing the price with their lives or do they sacrifice a chance at a normal life by returning the world to what it once was? It's a puzzling, thought-provoking dilemma and one (for once!) that is written with care by the writers and taken seriously. Leo is the first to sacrifice himself and the casual way that everyone just almost brushes it off is appropriately off putting. What I love also about the flaws in the Avatars' Utopia design, people don't seem feel pain, grief or any real emotion. I love how the writers make it important that feeling pain and loss is just as important as feeling the pleasure and the joy, it makes us human, knowing the difference between both and experiencing them. I love the moment where Phoebe touches the book and has a premonition of all the losses she's seen over the years from Andy to Prue to even the first time she vanquished Cole when he was the Source. Then there's the moment where the boys are crying over Leo's death and Phoebe has to force Piper to feel their pain as well. It's amazing how much emotion Holly can work up in just a few seconds, I was completely convinced when Piper suddenly realized she really lost Leo and effects of Utopia broke from her. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Paige. Probably the only weak moment of the episode is when Paige finally breaks down over Kyle's death. Seriously, Rose is so inconsistent with her acting! Last episode, she had a great moment where Paige went off on the Avatars just after Kyle got killed, yet in this episode, she can barely cry without making me cringe! O_0
Anyway, Oded Fehr continues to make Zankou a likable villain as he continues to manipulate those around. I love the confrontation between the sisters and Zankou, especially after knocking him back as they walked forward ready tonegotiate a plan. Their little team up with the Avatars was pretty cool, especially seeing Piper and Zankou sending a couple of them flying away with no problem. It's too bad we couldn't get greater battle to rap things up with the Avatars, but hey, this is Charmed and I'll give the writers a break for at least giving up a great episode for once! Though, I am glad the Avatars weren't just killed off and forgotten, they actually were noble beings and went off peacefully, knowing that the world wasn't ready for them yet. It leaves the door open for them to return as surprisingly Kyle, as we see in one of the final scenes that he was made into a whitelighter. It's actually an nice end to his character and a touchingfarewell betweenKyle and Paige. Now with the Avatars out of the way, the sisters now have Zankou to worry about, which should be an interesting match. All and All, "Charmageddon" is a great episode to end off the Avatar arc.
Possibly the best title of the whole series, this is a well plotted story and a good conclusion to the avatar arc. Once again, however, it's woefully short on action.
After just a few days of Utopia, Leo gets suspicious that all is not as it seems. Turns out the avatars are controlling their world by killing anyone who starts a fight and altering the minds of those around them. This is enough to prompt Leo to plot against them. Funny how quick the milk turns sour....
I was genuinely shocked at the avatar's actions - I really did think they were the good guys. Seems Kyle was right all along. As in the Season One finale, it's Phoebe's power which snaps the sisters back to reality and saves the day. her flashback is excellent, although I'm surprised they didn't show Patty's death.
So now the Charmed Ones are working with Zankou? Very cool! I love it when they blur the boundaries like this. Seems Kira is forgotten already. Zankou seemed to know his way around that old tomb rather well - he must have remembered it from his time in 'The Mummy'.
It was nice to see Kyle one last time but I don't think making him a whitelighter was the right thing to do. And how did he learn to orb so quickly? It took Paige months.
For all the clever plotting, this episode must rank as the biggest anticlimax in Charmed history. There's no showdown at all - the avatars simply agree to put everything back then leave without a fight. With a title like 'Charmageddon', I was at least expecting a hint of World War Three.
As it turns out, the entire Avatars storyline ends up being a morality play and exploration of the value of free will. Evidently, according to the writers, humans value the option of being evil more than a world without evil. So, the Avatars are bad. Well, actually they aren't, but their utopia involves a myriad of contradictions. Normal human behavior has been altered enough to leave everyone joyful and helpful but not enough to stop people from arguing and creating conflict once in a while. Even though he had been ardently convinced in prior episodes, the suddenly skeptical Leo quickly discovers that the Avatars are erasing people who create chaos. If you consider the number of lives saved with the removal of crime and war, the Avatars having to erase a troublemaker here and there would hardly seem to be a great evil, but regardless, no one wants to live in a world without free will, understandably. So, Leo teams with Zankou and gets himself killed so that Phoebe can somehow get the other sisters to see the light. Having done so, the sisters themselves join with Zankou to stop the Avatars, which in the end amounts to something as anticlimactic as talking the Avatars out of it. They turn everything back to normal, including Leo, except for Brody, who was killed before the transformation and therefore will remain dead.
The bad: Besides the aforementioned contradictions, Leo goes from devout Avatar to skeptic without any great reason.
Leo uses the death of Brody to convince Phoebe like it somehow exposes the evil of the Avatars. Except the Avatar was only defending herself from the homicidal attack of Brody. Brody's death was actually fully justified.
On that same note, several characters state that Brody was right all along about the Avatars. Actually, no, he wasn't. Brody was a revenge-twisted maniac who swore the Avatars were a great evil and was hell-bent on killing them. That is all wrong. The Avatars are not evil. They are neutral. Their utopia is just not desirable. And contrary to the writers treating Brody like a hero, there doesn't seem to be any justification for his murder of the Avatar. As an Avatar, Leo would have seen for himself the Avatars erasing people to maintain their utopia. So, he would have faced the same dilemma and needed to snap the sisters out of it just like he did after Brody's actions. And the Avatars showed they could simply be talked out of it rather than any violence being used against them.
Speaking of which, the Avatars refused to kill an innocent, namely Brody, up until then, and yet they have no problem erasing people from their utopia? Contradiction. What was up with the "they have gone to a better place" bit? Avatar brainwashing? Sure, but it also seemed to be cynical dig at religion.
Agent Brody being a whitelighter? Sure. Let's award the guy for being delusional and homicidal. Sounds like a good whitelighter.
the positive: Leo sacrificing himself to break the spell on the sisters.
Zankou. Guy is great. Best demon ever. The death of Brody. Thank God we got relieved of the most non-sensical Charmed character ever. Apparently it meant nothing to the writers that the guy tried to kill Leo twice. Paige didn't care, still slept with him afterwards. Piper and Phoebe barely cared, and Leo himself was nearly oblivious. In fact, even after his attempts on Leo's life, Brody remained more hostile towards Leo than Leo and everyone else did towards him. Brody was proven to be wrong all along about the Avatars killing his parents, which was his original reasoning for wanting them dead, and again, his violence towards Leo and the Avatar he killed is never justified. And of course, not only is Brody's character beyond irritating, but as is usual for her whenever she has a boyfriend, Paige became extremely annoying as well, once again immediately siding with her boyfriend against her sisters.
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