Charmed Forums

The WB (ended 2006)

Biggest Plot-Hole?

  • Avatar of Telekinesis429

    Telekinesis429

    [1]May 4, 2008
    • member since: 03/04/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 180
    What storyline do you think had the biggest plot-hole in the entire series?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of halsie

    halsie

    [2]May 4, 2008
    • member since: 05/15/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 21

    The AVATARS! hands down, definitely..

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of th77

    th77

    [3]May 4, 2008
    • member since: 10/18/07
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 1,621
    halsie wrote:

    The AVATARS! hands down, definitely..

    Agreed!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [4]May 5, 2008
    • member since: 07/31/05
    • level: 29
    • rank: Volgar the Enforcer
    • posts: 19,091
    Why the avatars? I get how you might not like them but how were they a plot hole?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of tvfan332

    tvfan332

    [5]May 5, 2008
    • member since: 06/10/06
    • level: 37
    • rank: Cylon
    • posts: 3,851

    NJZ wrote:
    Why the avatars? I get how you might not like them but how were they a plot hole?

    I was gonna ask too...although the whole asking Cole to join them, then getting Leo to join them, then being all utopia-happy, then killing people who affected this confused me a bit...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of th77

    th77

    [6]May 5, 2008
    • member since: 10/18/07
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 1,621
    They were bad, they were bad, they were good, wait now bad and then the whole ending was......... I'm not saying that it was completely unresolved but moreso than most stories.. Except of course why every one except Prue got to visit from the afterlife..
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of JIH1984x

    JIH1984x

    [7]May 5, 2008
    • member since: 06/26/07
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 168
    th77 wrote:
    They were bad, they were bad, they were good, wait now bad and then the whole ending was......... I'm not saying that it was completely unresolved but moreso than most stories.. Except of course why every one except Prue got to visit from the afterlife..


    The Avatars were a huge hole because of the thing with Cole. There purpose was not completely clear there, and then they went from wanting a demon to wanting a confused whitelighter. There was a lot of explanation about them, but they needed to be tied together.

    Prue could not return because Shannen would not return. However, that did make it a plot hole. They explained that with Prue being dead too soon so Piper had to let go. They had to let go of Penny and Patty because they did not know they could call them back. Even in season 5, Piper thought summoning them to talk about Prue in season 4 was a special occurrence, and that she could not do it again. It only worked when prenatal Wyatt called for Penny, and then it was a regular occurrence for everyone. Actually, that is a plot hole right there: why did it become so easy to summon the dead in the later seasons?

    A minor, yet annoying, plot hole is the first episode. When the girls first receive their powers, they are time, space, and phases of the moon. Which of these refers to which powers?

    A really annoying plot hole is that British guy who wanted Paige. If it was unheard of for whitelighters and witches to be together until Piper and Leo, and if Paige had to be a secret, then how did this guy grow up being half-and-half in a powerful family?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Princess_Pinky

    Princess_Pinky

    [8]May 5, 2008
    • member since: 09/28/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,073

    The Cleaners. Where the hell were they when Prue died?!

    Also, the entire "Witchstock" episode! Penny Halliwell, anyone? The episode was clearly written to have Patty in that role, but because she was unavaliable, they decided to force it on Penny. Instead of changing the character, they should've changed the time period (to the 50's), where it had a chance of making sense.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [9]May 6, 2008
    • member since: 07/31/05
    • level: 29
    • rank: Volgar the Enforcer
    • posts: 19,091
    JIH1984x wrote:
    The Avatars were a huge hole because of the thing with Cole. There purpose was not completely clear there, and then they went from wanting a demon to wanting a confused whitelighter. There was a lot of explanation about them, but they needed to be tied together.


    I wouldn't consider it a plot hole though. The avatars wanted Cole because he was very powerful at the time and they wanted that power to bring about their utopia. Since Cole (an avatar) was killed, it weakened the collective so they couldn't come back for a while. When they targeted Leo, it wasn't because of his stature, it's because of who he was linked to - The Charmed Ones. And since they were the most powerful witches at the time (bar Wyatt - which btw, is something I'd consider a plothole), the avatars wanted their power to make their utopia. I don't see how any of this could be a plot hole. If anything, it was one of the better developed arcs that Charmed delivered (though it wasn't all that enjoyable, tbh).
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of electricpeppers

    electricpeppers

    [10]May 6, 2008
    • member since: 06/09/04
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 5,594
    th77 wrote:
    They were bad, they were bad, they were good, wait now bad and then the whole ending was......... I'm not saying that it was completely unresolved but moreso than most stories.. Except of course why every one except Prue got to visit from the afterlife..


    When were they ever bad? They were always powerful, but never bad from what I recall. The Avatar dude warned Cole about changing reality, he never advocated it. Dawson's Creek guy was crazier than the Avatars were.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Princess_Pinky

    Princess_Pinky

    [11]May 6, 2008
    • member since: 09/28/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,073

    NJZ wrote:
    The Charmed Ones. And since they were the most powerful witches at the time (bar Wyatt - which btw, is something I'd consider a plothole)

    I couldn't agree more with you!

    I think godlike powerful Wyatt was just created as a little male ego boosting for Kern. (Is it really just a coincidence that as soon as a guy takes over the show, as opposed to the woman, Constance Burge, who created it, that suddenly the most powerful magic to ever exist are no longer three women, which was part of the original premise of the show, but one boy? I think not.)

    Edited on 05/06/2008 2:02pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [12]May 6, 2008
    • member since: 07/31/05
    • level: 29
    • rank: Volgar the Enforcer
    • posts: 19,091
    Princess_Pinky wrote:

    NJZ wrote:
    The Charmed Ones. And since they were the most powerful witches at the time (bar Wyatt - which btw, is something I'd consider a plothole)

    I couldn't agree more with you!

    I think godlike powerful Wyatt was just created as a little male ego boosting for Kern. (Is it really just a coincidence that as soon as a guy takes over the show, as opposed to the woman, Constance Burge, who created it, that suddenly the most powerful magic to ever exist are no longer three women, which was part of the original premise of the show, but one boy? I think not.)



    Agreed.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [13]May 6, 2008
    • member since: 07/31/05
    • level: 29
    • rank: Volgar the Enforcer
    • posts: 19,091
    electricpeppers wrote:
    th77 wrote:
    They were bad, they were bad, they were good, wait now bad and then the whole ending was......... I'm not saying that it was completely unresolved but moreso than most stories.. Except of course why every one except Prue got to visit from the afterlife..


    When were they ever bad? They were always powerful, but never bad from what I recall. The Avatar dude warned Cole about changing reality, he never advocated it. Dawson's Creek guy was crazier than the Avatars were.


    Yeah, I don't recall them ever being bad. The whole erasing-anyone-who-creates-conflict is debatable on a moral level but they were never bad. And yeah, Brody was pretty nuts, but I liked him.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [14]May 7, 2008
    • member since: 01/18/08
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 258

    hello again now to address all that has been spoken about as best i can

    the avatars being a plot hmm well my impression is that they are as old as the elders and somewhat opposite to them they needed a new "threat" the avatars were appointed for that .

    2) the thing about the avatars wanting cole (ugh) and then leo is simple to explain in fact it is integral to their concept both leo and cole shared one thing they were exteremly powerful and the avatars are the avatars of power and force essentially neutral as they said at the time truly beyond good and evil.

    3) the prue not being able to return is as said due to the fact that shannen cut ties with the show .

    4) as for the summoning the dead becoming easier it has to do with two things in my eyes a) they were more experienced (a show reason) b) the sisters needed spirit advisers to help them through some very tough times (i think this had to do with the proudcers and ppl like us who liked penny and patty alot i know i did)

    5) the thing about their powers wether they are time space or phases of the moon but if i am reading that post correctly the sisters power are time (in piper's case power one) space (paige and prue physically being able to move things with in normal space) as for phases of the moon beyon once in a blue moon the lunar effect was pretty minimal beyond the normal things that are influcenced by that

    6) the british guy who wanted paige well duh a lame attempt at drama in paige's already rushed relationship.

    7) witchstock why it was brought up is beyond me but from what i read in that i would say it shows they were adaptable because sometimes you have to do what is second best if you can't get your number one

    getting back to the avatars for a second i agree avatar alpha did warn cole that his changing relaity for his obsession would have dire consequences before getting off this hopefully once and for all there was one plot hole with the avatars but i understand it somewhat the avatars never told the charmed ones they recruited cole which would have doomed them to failure dure to phoebe never ever going along with them due to her emotional baggage about cole

    9) now to wyatt he is simple to explain in humans magicals ect ect ect every so many generation you get very lucky and have something called genetic reincarnation which in this case means if you looked at some of the other episodes melinda warren the one who began the charmed line has all three powers just like wyatt seemed to demo on a few occasions but his father's blood line made him able to orb as well

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of th77

    th77

    [15]May 7, 2008
    • member since: 10/18/07
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 1,621
    Actually the whole Cole as an Avatar brings up an inconsistency.. He was killed in the alternate reality because he was no longer invincible he was Belthezor. BUT he was also an Avatar so he shouldn't have died w/o the potion that in season 7 was the only thing to kill Avatars..
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [16]May 7, 2008
    • member since: 01/18/08
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 258

    i didn't think of that but since it was BEFORE the knowlege of the potion we can't really speak to that too much can we?

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of th77

    th77

    [17]May 7, 2008
    • member since: 10/18/07
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 1,621
    At the time we couldn't but when season 7 came and we learned all the back story and Kyle's parents it is one of those things we can say that the writers weren't paying attention!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Princess_Pinky

    Princess_Pinky

    [18]May 7, 2008
    • member since: 09/28/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,073

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    3) the prue not being able to return is as said due to the fact that shannen cut ties with the show .

    In real life, yes, we know that Shannen wouldn't come back, but on the show, The Cleaners are a plothole nonetheless. They should've never invented The Cleaners in season five with the backstory of, "We were created to clean up magical exposure," when that clearly doesn't fit with the exposure that caused Piper to get killed, forcing Phoebe to make a deal with evil to save Piper, only to lose Prue. If someone on the writing team had been thinking, they would've realized it makes no sense.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    7) witchstock why it was brought up is beyond me but from what i read in that i would say it shows they were adaptable because sometimes you have to do what is second best if you can't get your number one

    "Witchstock" was done in 1967. I'm sorry, but nobody naturally changes in appearance the way Penny supposedly did between "Witchstock" and "That 70's Episode," which was in 1975, only eight years later! (And of course they go and change Penny's husband's name from Jack, like it was listed on the family tree, to Allen.)

    Also, why would Phoebe and Piper forget that their powers don't work before they're born? And speaking of, why can they cast spells in the past? They're powers don't exist until they exist. Again, plothole after plothole in that episode.

    Edited on 05/07/2008 11:07pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of th77

    th77

    [20]May 8, 2008
    • member since: 10/18/07
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 1,621
    electricpeppers wrote:
    th77 wrote:
    They were bad, they were bad, they were good, wait now bad and then the whole ending was......... I'm not saying that it was completely unresolved but moreso than most stories.. Except of course why every one except Prue got to visit from the afterlife..
    When were they ever bad? They were always powerful, but never bad from what I recall. The Avatar dude warned Cole about changing reality, he never advocated it. Dawson's Creek guy was crazier than the Avatars were.
    Well they were never really defined with Cole but The whole floating head thing was in my opinion made them a little mean! They may have never been defined as bad but the show did jum,p around with the implication of them being evil and the whole ending.. Well maybe not a plot whole but it was lame
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.