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Biggest Plot-Hole?

  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [21]May 8, 2008
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    first off i want to thank everyone who has responded to my post it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that i got the debate going so strongly says something about my opinions and their effect now on to respond to the responses to the responses.

    1) hmmm th77 i would ask you why you defeat your own arguements considering that you actually explained away one of your own complaint about cole being an avatar and dying but i still think they did it right considering the avatars were undefined at the time so wether or not the writers were paying attention later is still up for debate but consider this i could have from other sources that caused the incosistancy or from the fact it could have been another writer during the time the avtars were defined vs when cole was an avatar

    2) now onto the cleaners the cleaners were there to provide another source of drama surrounding piper leo and wyatt and the cleaners were also there to clean up bigger messes than mortals could handle as for not interveing with prue come on do we have to go over it again they didn't have the cleaners there because well shannen didn't want to do it anymore plus the sisters were able to solve it with the help of the source and tempus not necessary for someone as powerful as the cleaners to get involved plus the deal with the source added a bit of tension to the whole thing plus it also forshadowed phoebe's fall to rise again and become queen of the underworld(realize i use the terms fall and rise in moral sense since we all know phoebe didn't die during that or during her time with cole as far as i remember)

    3) ok penny's appearance change from one instance of time travel to the next simple explanatio she is a witch duh she probably used magic that or it is just a different actress from one instance of time travel to the next either way take the show reason of the on the set reason but either way it is something we live with,

    4) ok piper and phoebe forgetting that their powers work before they were born well time travel is coimplex and unpredictable at best which is why i don't like it as a plot device there could have been the possibility that their powers could have worked since they stepped through time on purpose unlike paige since it was in one case to stop an invicible warlock

    5) to address the issue about prue not getting a visit from the afterlife much as i like her as a character i think she was underserving of such because she was sooo self assured/arrogant why would she need it or deserve it

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

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    th77

    [22]May 8, 2008
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    I don't think I defeated my own arguement.. It was inconsistent but like you pointed out it probably was another writer and it did serve it's point for the Centenial Charmed episode.. And I'm sure they did not know for sure what would happen with the Avatars or if they'd bring them back and all shows at some point or another contradict themselves Charmed just did it alot.. People are mentioning how Shannen wouldn't come back.. It's the truth but it doesn't take away the fact that there is a plot hole because of it.. I'm not mentioning the cleaners because they were pointless and m,y guess would be since Tempest cleaned up the exposure and Prue's death made way for Paige and her destiny.. But like you I agree the debate on all this is fun
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    th77

    [23]May 8, 2008
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    And did you mean Shannen or Prue was arrogant? Cause Prue wasn't she did alot of good and essentially gave her life for Piper in the end
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    th77

    [24]May 8, 2008
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    Princess_Pinky wrote:

    The Cleaners. Where the hell were they when Prue died?!

    Also, the entire "Witchstock" episode! Penny Halliwell, anyone? The episode was clearly written to have Patty in that role, but because she was unavaliable, they decided to force it on Penny. Instead of changing the character, they should've changed the time period (to the 50's), where it had a chance of making sense.

    And I also agree somewhat on Witchstock.. I never thought it was written for Patty(kinda makes sense though)But it timed out bad, even if the episode was 1960(which was not woodstock) and Patty was 10 cause it was said she was born in 1950 it contradicted so many other things(like the necromancer being involved with Penny at the time of the Patty wiccaning and she certainly aged alot by 1975 when the girls time traveled) So I always thought like you said it should've been the 50's
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    Princess_Pinky

    [25]May 8, 2008
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    2) now onto the cleaners the cleaners were there to provide another source of drama surrounding piper leo and wyatt and the cleaners were also there to clean up bigger messes than mortals could handle as for not interveing with prue come on do we have to go over it again they didn't have the cleaners there because well shannen didn't want to do it anymore plus the sisters were able to solve it with the help of the source and tempus not necessary for someone as powerful as the cleaners to get involved plus the deal with the source added a bit of tension to the whole thing plus it also forshadowed phoebe's fall to rise again and become queen of the underworld(realize i use the terms fall and rise in moral sense since we all know phoebe didn't die during that or during her time with cole as far as i remember)

    3) ok penny's appearance change from one instance of time travel to the next simple explanatio she is a witch duh she probably used magic that or it is just a different actress from one instance of time travel to the next either way take the show reason of the on the set reason but either way it is something we live with

    You explanation still doesn't fix The Cleaners plothole. The Cleaners only gave the sisters a chance to clean up Wyatt's mess because they've prevented exposure before. But that in and of itself doesn't make sense, because the only big exposure risk they've had was Prue, which means they should've come immediately after the sisters had mass exposure in AHBL instead of waiting for the sisters to fix it themselves, because unlike in season five, there was no evidence that the sisters could have cleaned up the exposure and thus no basis for allowing the exposure to continue. (And I should also point out that The Elders didn't know about The Cleaners in AHBL, because they didn't want Leo orbing because of fear of exposing whitelighters, but suddenly in S5, "Oh, an Elder, maybe he can explain it to you?" and then Leo tells them that The Cleaners clean up magical messes. Again, plothole.) The idea that The Cleaners were waiting for Phoebe to make a deal with Tempus is irrelevent, because The Cleaners should have shown up immediately and fixed the problem.

    And on a side note, Shannen did not want to leave Charmed. She was actually in Canada shooting Another Day (and I've also heard, even promoting Charmed) when she was fired over the phone.

    As for Penny, if they want us to believe that she used magic to hide her aging (she was supposed to be 35 in January 1967), then they should've explained that, because there is no firm basis to believe that she would have any reason to, which is why it's a plothole.

    Edited on 05/08/2008 11:21am
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  • Avatar of th77

    th77

    [26]May 8, 2008
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    Princess_Pinky wrote:
    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    2) now onto the cleaners the cleaners were there to provide another source of drama surrounding piper leo and wyatt and the cleaners were also there to clean up bigger messes than mortals could handle as for not interveing with prue come on do we have to go over it again they didn't have the cleaners there because well shannen didn't want to do it anymore plus the sisters were able to solve it with the help of the source and tempus not necessary for someone as powerful as the cleaners to get involved plus the deal with the source added a bit of tension to the whole thing plus it also forshadowed phoebe's fall to rise again and become queen of the underworld(realize i use the terms fall and rise in moral sense since we all know phoebe didn't die during that or during her time with cole as far as i remember)

    3) ok penny's appearance change from one instance of time travel to the next simple explanatio she is a witch duh she probably used magic that or it is just a different actress from one instance of time travel to the next either way take the show reason of the on the set reason but either way it is something we live with

    You explanation still doesn't fix The Cleaners plothole. The Cleaners only gave the sisters a chance to clean up Wyatt's mess because they've prevented exposure before. But that in and of itself doesn't make sense, because the only big exposure risk they've had was Prue, which means they should've come immediately after the sisters had mass exposure in AHBL instead of waiting for the sisters to fix it themselves, because unlike in season five, there was no evidence that the sisters could have cleaned up the exposure and thus no basis for allowing the exposure to continue. (And I should also point out that The Elders didn't know about The Cleaners in AHBL, because they didn't want Leo orbing because of fear of exposing whitelighters, but suddenly in S5, "Oh, an Elder, maybe he can explain it to you?" and then Leo tells them that The Cleaners clean up magical messes. Again, plothole.) The idea that The Cleaners were waiting for Phoebe to make a deal with Tempus is irrelevent, because The Cleaners should have shown up immediately and fixed the problem.

    And on a side note, Shannen did not want to leave Charmed. She was actually in Canada shooting Another Day (and I've also heard, even promoting Charmed) when she was fired over the phone.

    As for Penny, if they want us to believe that she used magic to hide her aging (she was supposed to be 35 in January 1967), then they should've explained that, because there is no firm basis to believe that she would have any reason to, which is why it's a plothole.

    And then she really aged by 1975 when the girls visited.. Wow! It was 1967 in that episode? I've seen it a hundred times and never realized it was 67'! I'd just convinced myself that they were early hippies in 1960' so that I could buy the whole thing.. That was a bigger plot hole then I thought! And your right most of what was said was just explaining away the plot holes! Which doesn't mean they were not plot holes!
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    Princess_Pinky

    [27]May 8, 2008
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    th77 wrote:
    Princess_Pinky wrote:
    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    2) now onto the cleaners the cleaners were there to provide another source of drama surrounding piper leo and wyatt and the cleaners were also there to clean up bigger messes than mortals could handle as for not interveing with prue come on do we have to go over it again they didn't have the cleaners there because well shannen didn't want to do it anymore plus the sisters were able to solve it with the help of the source and tempus not necessary for someone as powerful as the cleaners to get involved plus the deal with the source added a bit of tension to the whole thing plus it also forshadowed phoebe's fall to rise again and become queen of the underworld(realize i use the terms fall and rise in moral sense since we all know phoebe didn't die during that or during her time with cole as far as i remember)

    3) ok penny's appearance change from one instance of time travel to the next simple explanatio she is a witch duh she probably used magic that or it is just a different actress from one instance of time travel to the next either way take the show reason of the on the set reason but either way it is something we live with

    You explanation still doesn't fix The Cleaners plothole. The Cleaners only gave the sisters a chance to clean up Wyatt's mess because they've prevented exposure before. But that in and of itself doesn't make sense, because the only big exposure risk they've had was Prue, which means they should've come immediately after the sisters had mass exposure in AHBL instead of waiting for the sisters to fix it themselves, because unlike in season five, there was no evidence that the sisters could have cleaned up the exposure and thus no basis for allowing the exposure to continue. (And I should also point out that The Elders didn't know about The Cleaners in AHBL, because they didn't want Leo orbing because of fear of exposing whitelighters, but suddenly in S5, "Oh, an Elder, maybe he can explain it to you?" and then Leo tells them that The Cleaners clean up magical messes. Again, plothole.) The idea that The Cleaners were waiting for Phoebe to make a deal with Tempus is irrelevent, because The Cleaners should have shown up immediately and fixed the problem.

    And on a side note, Shannen did not want to leave Charmed. She was actually in Canada shooting Another Day (and I've also heard, even promoting Charmed) when she was fired over the phone.

    As for Penny, if they want us to believe that she used magic to hide her aging (she was supposed to be 35 in January 1967), then they should've explained that, because there is no firm basis to believe that she would have any reason to, which is why it's a plothole.

    And then she really aged by 1975 when the girls visited.. Wow! It was 1967 in that episode? I've seen it a hundred times and never realized it was 67'! I'd just convinced myself that they were early hippies in 1960' so that I could buy the whole thing.. That was a bigger plot hole then I thought! And your right most of what was said was just explaining away the plot holes! Which doesn't mean they were not plot holes!

    Yeah, it's January 1967. Right after Paige meets Past Penny, she notices a calendar on the wall that's pinned open to January 1967. It's the 31st picture on this page. Actually, thinking about it now, it must be January 13, 1967, because Paige and Past Penny talk about how the Human Be-In isn't until "tomorrow," and I think that took place on January 14, 1967.

    Edited on 05/08/2008 1:22pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Princess_Pinky

    [28]May 8, 2008
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    9) now to wyatt he is simple to explain in humans magicals ect ect ect every so many generation you get very lucky and have something called genetic reincarnation which in this case means if you looked at some of the other episodes melinda warren the one who began the charmed line has all three powers just like wyatt seemed to demo on a few occasions but his father's blood line made him able to orb as well

    Warren magic was never supposed to pass onto males, that was established and repeated many times before Brad Kern took over the show. If Kern had stayed true to the rules the show's creatress, Constance Burge, had laid out, then Wyatt should not have inherited any witch powers at all, just whitelighter powers from Leo.

    And even if you try to explain it away as the girls making a mistake about Warren magic in the earlier seasons, him having force fields, conjuration, thought projection, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... does not fit into your theory. Melinda had telekinesis, temporal stasis (freezing), and premonitions. Even Wyatt got each of those powers AND every whitelighter power, it doesn't explain why he had all of those other powers that we've never seen before in the Warren line. Even if he was supposed to be powerful because he was the son of a Charmed One and a whitelighter, he should have never been more powerful than the Power of Three, because Melinda's prophecy said:

    :
    each generation of Warren witches would become stronger and stronger, culminating in the arrival of three sisters

    "Culminate: to reach the highest or a climactic or decisive point" and "to bring to a head or to the highest point" (Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary)

    The Charmed Ones were supposed to be the most powerful beings to ever be produced in the Warren line. Wyatt defies that prophecy because he is more powerful than them, and is therefor a plothole.

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    silverfoxy8472

    [29]May 9, 2008
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    wow the debate is fired up

    1) cole was a means to intro the avatars

    2) prue came off as a bit self assured almost to the point of arrogance so she didn't need to afterlife counseling because it seemed to happen when they needed some sort of advice not able to be gotten to mortal way as for shannen from everything i have found out when working on charmed she was a brat no offense but from the most reliable source i have and it is on file on my computer

    3) ok princess pinky actually yes it does they are beyond good and evil the problem with prue was solved by the classic unholy alliance in which every side was trying to outdo the other plus explain me why with all that going on would the cleaners get involved plus remembering shannen wanted to leave the show and i will say that over and over until others get it so therefore it had to be done as destiny plus prue's death added drama to the show with piper adjusting to her new role and later paige feeling compared to prue the super witch which frankly she was tooo powerful bordering on superhero i mean faaaaaar more than the other sisters it was a mistake to give her alll those powers why did she get such a power up and the others didn't i bet once again it has to do with off the show stuff. one last thing i just thought of was this a big dragon flying around the city burning things wouldn't expose magic?

    4) ok once again about wyatt we have talked about genetic reincarnation but please remember his father's bloodline is that of a whitelighter/elder i call that serious power and with wyatt being born after the charmed ones the whole sister thing was broken and yes i know the charmed ones were prophicied to be the strongest of their line but did the prophecy take into account their children? plus gatting somewhat back to wyatt considering his father's power level we bring in the whole thing of genetic mutation which means there will be other things that manifest that are not of the three powers you know like paige and her ability to move things with her mind was changed by sam's whitelighter blood.

    5) i am still trying to understand witchstock myself but if i had to explain penny's aging it would be heavy stress from demon attacks but seriously i am running out of explanations here but that might be good for whoever keeps bringing up the whole witchstock thing

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

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    Princess_Pinky

    [30]May 9, 2008
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    3) ok princess pinky actually yes it does they are beyond good and evil the problem with prue was solved by the classic unholy alliance in which every side was trying to outdo the other plus explain me why with all that going on would the cleaners get involved plus remembering shannen wanted to leave the show and i will say that over and over until others get it so therefore it had to be done as destiny plus prue's death added drama to the show with piper adjusting to her new role and later paige feeling compared to prue the super witch which frankly she was tooo powerful bordering on superhero i mean faaaaaar more than the other sisters it was a mistake to give her alll those powers why did she get such a power up and the others didn't i bet once again it has to do with off the show stuff. one last thing i just thought of was this a big dragon flying around the city burning things wouldn't expose magic?

    4) ok once again about wyatt we have talked about genetic reincarnation but please remember his father's bloodline is that of a whitelighter/elder i call that serious power and with wyatt being born after the charmed ones the whole sister thing was broken and yes i know the charmed ones were prophicied to be the strongest of their line but did the prophecy take into account their children? plus gatting somewhat back to wyatt considering his father's power level we bring in the whole thing of genetic mutation which means there will be other things that manifest that are not of the three powers you know like paige and her ability to move things with her mind was changed by sam's whitelighter blood.

    Shannen was FIRED! The whole reason she disallowed her image to be used on Charmed was because she was fired! If she had left on friendly terms, that would have not happened. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. Even Holly Marie Combs has publically stated how distasteful she thought the handling of Shannen's firing was (which, as I already said, was over the phone while she was in Canada).

    And yes, a dragon breathing fire breath around San Francisco is magical exposure. But so is vanquishing a demon in the middle of a crowded hospital parking lot in the middle of the day on television and blasting people off your front lawn with a wave of your hand while news station cameras are rolling. Where were The Cleaners then?

    Leo was a whitelighter, not an Elder, when Wyatt was concieved. (Chris was concieved when Leo was an Elder.) Whitelighter are one, not as powerful as Elders, and two, whitelighters are pacifists! That means they don't have "serious power," they have passive powers. Leo even explained to Paige in "Enter The Demon" that she was half whitelighter, therefore half pacifist, and thus may never develop the power to fight like Phoebe because of her half pacifist nature and powers. Since Wyatt is half whitelighter, that goes for him as well. (And again, I don't accept the genetic reincarnation argument, because Wyatt was never supposed to have witch powers in the first place. Season one already established that Warren powers are only passed down through the female line, which makes "witch Wyatt" a plothole from the start.)

    Edited on 05/09/2008 10:03am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    NJZ

    [31]May 9, 2008
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    Wow, I go away for 3 days and I miss such a huge debate. I agree that the Cleaners are a huge plot hole. The only way I can think of explaining it (but not justifying it) is that the Cleaners stayed away from the exposure in AHBL because they knew what was coming (i.e. Prue's eventual death). Since they have ties with the Elders, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some sort of connection with the Angel of Destiny. And knowing that Prue was gonna die, they stayed out of it and let fate take it's course. After all, wasn't it said at some point in the show (perhaps in Forever Charmed) that Prue had to die in order to make way for Paige's destiny? Or is that just me trying to attach some sort of logical reason as to why Piper didn't even use Coop's ring to see Prue one last time or even try to save her in FC?
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    lonelygirl13

    [32]May 9, 2008
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    billie and her sister
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    tvfan332

    [33]May 9, 2008
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    NJZ wrote:
    Wow, I go away for 3 days and I miss such a huge debate. I agree that the Cleaners are a huge plot hole. The only way I can think of explaining it (but not justifying it) is that the Cleaners stayed away from the exposure in AHBL because they knew what was coming (i.e. Prue's eventual death). Since they have ties with the Elders, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some sort of connection with the Angel of Destiny. And knowing that Prue was gonna die, they stayed out of it and let fate take it's course. After all, wasn't it said at some point in the show (perhaps in Forever Charmed) that Prue had to die in order to make way for Paige's destiny? Or is that just me trying to attach some sort of logical reason as to why Piper didn't even use Coop's ring to see Prue one last time or even try to save her in FC?

    I think you're trying to work around the show's plot holes to try and make sense of a series so full of inconsistencies I'd be hard to find anything that did make sense.

    Prue's death wasn't planned, so Paige's arrival couldn't have been planned, so there is no way Prue's (original) destiny was to die, more just like a terrible finale trying to ruin the importance of one of the most interesting and deep characters on the show.

    And the Cleaners...I don't even want to think of them, thinking about it...I did sort of like the dragon episode (for season six's standards, which were incredibly low so anything remotely watchable stands out) but I pretty much think it was a mistake to include them.

    Do these writes even watch the show they're writing for? Do they even have any clue of what is supposed to happen in the Charmed world. Everytime I come on these boards, I become aware of another plot-hole.

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    Princess_Pinky

    [34]May 9, 2008
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    tvfan332 wrote:
    Do these writes even watch the show they're writing for? Do they even have any clue of what is supposed to happen in the Charmed world. Everytime I come on these boards, I become aware of another plot-hole.

    You can say that again! I think after season four, the writer's just stopped watching Charmed before they were hired. It one of my biggest pet peeves. If I worked for a show, I'd make it a point to have the episodes on tape/DVD and constantly rewatch them; especially the fan favorites. You can learn a lot from rewatching old episodes and bring in continuity, but apparently nobody on the Kern writing staff decided that was important. It was ridiculous!

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    tvfan332

    [35]May 10, 2008
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    Princess_Pinky wrote:

    tvfan332 wrote:
    Do these writes even watch the show they're writing for? Do they even have any clue of what is supposed to happen in the Charmed world. Everytime I come on these boards, I become aware of another plot-hole.

    You can say that again! I think after season four, the writer's just stopped watching Charmed before they were hired. It one of my biggest pet peeves. If I worked for a show, I'd make it a point to have the episodes on tape/DVD and constantly rewatch them; especially the fan favorites. You can learn a lot from rewatching old episodes and bring in continuity, but apparently nobody on the Kern writing staff decided that was important. It was ridiculous!

    I completely agree with you, it only takes one line in one episode to make a plot-hole, if I was working on a show I'd be constantly checking to see if something I wrote didn't match to something in a previous episode.

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    JoshSutton

    [36]May 10, 2008
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    Princess_Pinky wrote:

    tvfan332 wrote:
    Do these writes even watch the show they're writing for? Do they even have any clue of what is supposed to happen in the Charmed world. Everytime I come on these boards, I become aware of another plot-hole.

    You can say that again! I think after season four, the writer's just stopped watching Charmed before they were hired. It one of my biggest pet peeves. If I worked for a show, I'd make it a point to have the episodes on tape/DVD and constantly rewatch them; especially the fan favorites. You can learn a lot from rewatching old episodes and bring in continuity, but apparently nobody on the Kern writing staff decided that was important. It was ridiculous!

    I really agree! There's some stuff thats mentioned and i'm like wtf?! they're making stuff up now! Like Prue's animal spell of which we never even had in any episode. There's was however Phoebe's backfired animal spell...

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    astralguy87

    [37]May 11, 2008
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    Lol funny how this turned from a plot hole discussion to a Charmed support group lamenting over careless writers!

    There are too many plot holes to list (most of them relate to time travel and other new magical concepts!) but if there was one "plot hole" that was handled well it was the transition from All Hell Breaks Loose to Charmed Again. They could have messed it up in so many different ways (such as saying Prue trained Paige into an equally skilled superwitch from heaven in some unseen scenes or even worse, like someone said on the forums one time, saying the Prue era was just a dream or psychological Barbas mind game...hmmm *writes down ideas for cheesy fanfics* lmao).

    Even though we never got to see the Underworld confrontation, it was written with a very fitting dark and somber mood and threw us right into the story with Piper in the attic at 4am. It also did well at channeling some of the anger the viewers might have felt through her tireless chanting of ways to bring her sister back, refusal to go to the funeral, and emotional angry outburst at Leo and the vase at the cemetary. And that is one of my only praises for the writers on the show.

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    NJZ

    [38]May 12, 2008
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    tvfan332 wrote:

    NJZ wrote:
    Wow, I go away for 3 days and I miss such a huge debate. I agree that the Cleaners are a huge plot hole. The only way I can think of explaining it (but not justifying it) is that the Cleaners stayed away from the exposure in AHBL because they knew what was coming (i.e. Prue's eventual death). Since they have ties with the Elders, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some sort of connection with the Angel of Destiny. And knowing that Prue was gonna die, they stayed out of it and let fate take it's course. After all, wasn't it said at some point in the show (perhaps in Forever Charmed) that Prue had to die in order to make way for Paige's destiny? Or is that just me trying to attach some sort of logical reason as to why Piper didn't even use Coop's ring to see Prue one last time or even try to save her in FC?

    I think you're trying to work around the show's plot holes to try and make sense of a series so full of inconsistencies I'd be hard to find anything that did make sense.

    Prue's death wasn't planned, so Paige's arrival couldn't have been planned, so there is no way Prue's (original) destiny was to die, more just like a terrible finale trying to ruin the importance of one of the most interesting and deep characters on the show.



    Yeah, I'm trying to apply logic to something that couldn't possibly have any. What you said about Prue's death not being planned reminds me of another possible plot hole:

    In Season 8, the Angel of Destiny said that the outcome of the battle wasn't how she had foreseen it. But, if she's the Angel of Destiny, she MUST have known that time would be altered and that the battle would end with the Charmed Ones winning anyway (since she exists beyond time, the time-reversal with Coop's ring would not affect her). So she SHOULD'VE foreseen it ending the way it did and she SHOULD'VE known time would be reversed for it to end up the right way. So why the hell did she even bother saying that the end of the battle wasn't how she had foreseen if she knew it'd end up right anyway? Does that make sense, I'm having trouble articulating it?

    Back to Prue's death for a second; it's true that it wasn't planned (as we know from the future in Morality Bites). But because the girls decided to change their actions to not lead themselves into the MB world, couldn't we say that that also altered Prue's fate? Or maybe it was her fate all along, to die. Maybe going into the future was meant to happen anyway, so as to lead into Paige's arrival? And I guess that's where it gets philosophical and we could argue whether or not we are the master's of our own fate or whether it's all written in the stars before we're even born. And somehow I doubt we could attach that kinda depth to Charmed.

    And astralguy, I agree completely. The transition between the 3rd and the 4th season was handled beautifully, I thought, considering they couldn't use any footage of Prue and had to make do with what they had. But I think that's more to do with "Charmed Again" being in one of the earlier seasons of the show. Back then, they had a great team of writers and the show was actually really good. BTW, according to IMDB, Brad Kern wrote that episode. I may hate the guy, but even I admit that as a writer, he's actually pretty good. Shame then that he wouldn't know how to run a tv show if it slapped him in the face.

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  • Avatar of th77

    th77

    [39]May 12, 2008
    • member since: 10/18/07
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 1,621
    NJZ wrote:

    tvfan332 wrote:

    NJZ wrote:
    Wow, I go away for 3 days and I miss such a huge debate. I agree that the Cleaners are a huge plot hole. The only way I can think of explaining it (but not justifying it) is that the Cleaners stayed away from the exposure in AHBL because they knew what was coming (i.e. Prue's eventual death). Since they have ties with the Elders, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some sort of connection with the Angel of Destiny. And knowing that Prue was gonna die, they stayed out of it and let fate take it's course. After all, wasn't it said at some point in the show (perhaps in Forever Charmed) that Prue had to die in order to make way for Paige's destiny? Or is that just me trying to attach some sort of logical reason as to why Piper didn't even use Coop's ring to see Prue one last time or even try to save her in FC?

    I think you're trying to work around the show's plot holes to try and make sense of a series so full of inconsistencies I'd be hard to find anything that did make sense.

    Prue's death wasn't planned, so Paige's arrival couldn't have been planned, so there is no way Prue's (original) destiny was to die, more just like a terrible finale trying to ruin the importance of one of the most interesting and deep characters on the show.



    Yeah, I'm trying to apply logic to something that couldn't possibly have any. What you said about Prue's death not being planned reminds me of another possible plot hole:

    In Season 8, the Angel of Destiny said that the outcome of the battle wasn't how she had foreseen it. But, if she's the Angel of Destiny, she MUST have known that time would be altered and that the battle would end with the Charmed Ones winning anyway (since she exists beyond time, the time-reversal with Coop's ring would not affect her). So she SHOULD'VE foreseen it ending the way it did and she SHOULD'VE known time would be reversed for it to end up the right way. So why the hell did she even bother saying that the end of the battle wasn't how she had foreseen if she knew it'd end up right anyway? Does that make sense, I'm having trouble articulating it?

    Back to Prue's death for a second; it's true that it wasn't planned (as we know from the future in Morality Bites). But because the girls decided to change their actions to not lead themselves into the MB world, couldn't we say that that also altered Prue's fate? Or maybe it was her fate all along, to die. Maybe going into the future was meant to happen anyway, so as to lead into Paige's arrival? And I guess that's where it gets philosophical and we could argue whether or not we are the master's of our own fate or whether it's all written in the stars before we're even born. And somehow I doubt we could attach that kinda depth to Charmed.

    And astralguy, I agree completely. The transition between the 3rd and the 4th season was handled beautifully, I thought, considering they couldn't use any footage of Prue and had to make do with what they had. But I think that's more to do with "Charmed Again" being in one of the earlier seasons of the show. Back then, they had a great team of writers and the show was actually really good. BTW, according to IMDB, Brad Kern wrote that episode. I may hate the guy, but even I admit that as a writer, he's actually pretty good. Shame then that he wouldn't know how to run a tv show if it slapped him in the face.

    I agree with alot of what has been said especially on Prue thing.. In the real world her departure wasn't planned but as of the 4th season it had happened so it can be reasonably stated that in the Charmed universe it was her destiny and that the Tempest reset time enter Paige was all apart of her destiny too.. But that is all I'll defend the rest were giant plotholes
    Edited on 05/12/2008 11:16am
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  • Avatar of WillowMoonLight

    WillowMoonLight

    [40]May 12, 2008
    • member since: 02/13/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 34

    This isn't really a plot hole...More of an inconsistancy but is anybody else bothered by the fact that Victor comes off as a total jerk in the first episode you see him and then the next time (with a completly different actor I might add*grr*) everything is all happy and resolved. LOL, sorry for the rant but I just had to get that out. One of the big plot holes for me is what happens between seasons 3 and 4. I understand that they really couldn't take the time but I had to watch the last episode of the 3rd season and the first episode of the 4th season at least 3 times in a row before I understood what had happened. That Leo healed Piper, and Cole somehow (no idea how) got Pheobe out of her deal. Although that could just be me being unobservent

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