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The WB (ended 2006)

Biggest Plot-Hole?

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    CharmedOneP391

    [41]May 12, 2008
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    Maybe Cole becoming an Avatar was just a set up by the avatars to kill Cole because he would've been evil and unstoppable.

    A big plot-hole was Phoebe losing her powers in season 6, to make her kind of boring and useless except for the power of three spells.

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    CharmedOneP391

    [42]May 12, 2008
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    Piper not using Coops ring in Forever Charmed to go see Prue was because she knew that Prue was destined to die and there was no saving her.
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    silverfoxy8472

    [43]May 13, 2008
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    hello again all now onto the debate

    1) th77 said " at the time we couldn't but when season 7 came and we learned the back story and Kyle's parents it is one of those things we can say that the writer's weren't paying attention!" now earlier you talked about cole being an inconsistancy so here is my take on this again you want to call the avatar's a plot hole because the first time they were introduced they were used as a plot device and on the basis of FUTURE knowledge that we didn't have at the time it was being done? what are we chris perry ?(now that is an inconsistancy why is drew fuller's character listed with the last name perry instead of halliwell i am willing to hear theories on that)

    2) ok again about witchstock you would be surprised what high stress living can do hello any highly paid lawyers or doctors out there?

    and penny didn't seem like the type of person to relax for ANY reason period .

    3) now once again to wyatt yes wyatt was a male but as master yoda once said future much emotion very difficult to see translation for anyone who doesn't know that the future is ever shifting and after several hundred years thing can radically change plus don't tell me all the things the charmed ones did didn't affect the timeline even when not dealing with time travel that is the wonderful thing about free will it can affect things without even trying soo wyatt defied the prophecy and things changed but i think melinda would have been proud of wyatt considering he grew up to be the great defender he finally did once gideon was vanquished once and for all thank you very much.

    4) now again the cleaners and the elders simple explanation for the the elders not knowing they are elder not eternals their nature is such that their aging is slowed considerably but they die eventually otherwise they wouldn't need replacements like they did with that kid who had the ability to bring drawings to life not sure what season that was though and each time the powers are inherited some knowledge maybe lost in fact i am sure of it because you can't prevent such a thing from happening even in magick so knoeledge of what happened in ancient times is sketchy at best sometimes the elders coming up with ALOT of info other times well they are like the elders are alot of times very unhelpful and lacking knowledge in general (please note the knowledges are also limited by what we know as humans considering we are humans and we don't know a whole lot about the ancient times ok?)

    5)very quickly once again about cole and the avatars yes i will agree it was done to kill him off finallyand you know what i was happy when he was vanquished once and for all he reminded me to a certain extent of alpha from mib the series you don't have a plot for the week but you want drama and excitement bring in cole not like they could kill him at the time and the only one i know of worse than cole was seyemour from finaly Fantasy X he just refused to die and you fought him like 6 or 7 times through out the game i think been a while since i played FFX but the point is cole aka balthazaar annoyed me to hell and back

    6) now onto a truely new subject and one i will enjoy debating because it is not more than a bit over debated no offense to everyone else i do enjoy debating about the avatars cole and other subjects but new subjects are more fun this subject is the one about phoebe "losing" her powers i don't see that as a plot hole i see that as wellllllll barbus had a point there had to be consequences for all the screwups a way to wipe their slate clean in my eyes she did abuse her powers and she didn't really lose them in my eyes it was more like the council or whoever they were just shut them off since we didn't see them float out of her like the spell for calling a witch's powers which is how they established for the most part that the losing of the powers happen i mean they were already in a zone which we have to assume neutralized all powers witch and demon but not necessarily elder or whitelighter for necessity reasons or maybe it was the will of the council to let them use those powers for traveling reasons but i feel looking back phoebe did abuse her powers and for a time needed to learn to rely on her own inner gifts that were not witch based and it was interesting to see her struggles through that time as well.

    7) now for my "favorite" subject piper didn't visit prue in forever charmed because shanned cut ties with the show and her image was not allowed to be used period i hope this is the last time we beat this horse no offense to everyone i am deeply sorry if i have offended anyone

    sincerely,

    Silverfoxy

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  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [44]May 13, 2008
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    sorry forgot to address the whole AHBL thing

    ok i said it before and will say it again it was prue's destiny to die destiny like the cleaners is beyond good and evil though only the side of good called upon the angel of destiny because they actually believe in such things the demons don't there fore you will never see an evil verison of destiny which i am sure does exist and no the seer doesn't count nor does the oracle before her destiny takes the form most appropiate to the one whom destiny appears to ok?

    9) again adding to the cleaners they also i am sure can shield themselves from both sides so only reveal themseleves when absolutely necessary and believe me the charmed ones forced it prue's mess well it was dealt with on mortal levels again why should they have gotten involved to cover up the exposure? that was worked out with tempus they were not needed period.

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

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    th77

    [45]May 13, 2008
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    I have no theory on why Chris' last name was Perry, I mean maybe his middle name or just a cover.. Someone mentioned Victor.. Either the original actor was not available or more likely as you pointed out he was a jerk in season one and maybe the writers just wanted to go a different direction and hired a different actor who was more likeable or came off softer and I'm glad they did because the Actor who played Victor from his 2nnd appearance on was a better Victor and the girls needed a dad who was more a dad and less a super cool James Bond type which is how the 1st actor played the role
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    CharmedOneP391

    [46]May 13, 2008
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    Chris' last name was Perry because he wasn't about to be like "yeaa, my name's Chris Halliwell". He just made it up..
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  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [47]May 14, 2008
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    hmmmm that's a good point but then again that's also why i hate time travel as a plot device

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

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    NJZ

    [48]May 15, 2008
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    th77 wrote:
    NJZ wrote:

    tvfan332 wrote:

    NJZ wrote:
    Wow, I go away for 3 days and I miss such a huge debate. I agree that the Cleaners are a huge plot hole. The only way I can think of explaining it (but not justifying it) is that the Cleaners stayed away from the exposure in AHBL because they knew what was coming (i.e. Prue's eventual death). Since they have ties with the Elders, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some sort of connection with the Angel of Destiny. And knowing that Prue was gonna die, they stayed out of it and let fate take it's course. After all, wasn't it said at some point in the show (perhaps in Forever Charmed) that Prue had to die in order to make way for Paige's destiny? Or is that just me trying to attach some sort of logical reason as to why Piper didn't even use Coop's ring to see Prue one last time or even try to save her in FC?

    I think you're trying to work around the show's plot holes to try and make sense of a series so full of inconsistencies I'd be hard to find anything that did make sense.

    Prue's death wasn't planned, so Paige's arrival couldn't have been planned, so there is no way Prue's (original) destiny was to die, more just like a terrible finale trying to ruin the importance of one of the most interesting and deep characters on the show.



    Yeah, I'm trying to apply logic to something that couldn't possibly have any. What you said about Prue's death not being planned reminds me of another possible plot hole:

    In Season 8, the Angel of Destiny said that the outcome of the battle wasn't how she had foreseen it. But, if she's the Angel of Destiny, she MUST have known that time would be altered and that the battle would end with the Charmed Ones winning anyway (since she exists beyond time, the time-reversal with Coop's ring would not affect her). So she SHOULD'VE foreseen it ending the way it did and she SHOULD'VE known time would be reversed for it to end up the right way. So why the hell did she even bother saying that the end of the battle wasn't how she had foreseen if she knew it'd end up right anyway? Does that make sense, I'm having trouble articulating it?

    Back to Prue's death for a second; it's true that it wasn't planned (as we know from the future in Morality Bites). But because the girls decided to change their actions to not lead themselves into the MB world, couldn't we say that that also altered Prue's fate? Or maybe it was her fate all along, to die. Maybe going into the future was meant to happen anyway, so as to lead into Paige's arrival? And I guess that's where it gets philosophical and we could argue whether or not we are the master's of our own fate or whether it's all written in the stars before we're even born. And somehow I doubt we could attach that kinda depth to Charmed.

    And astralguy, I agree completely. The transition between the 3rd and the 4th season was handled beautifully, I thought, considering they couldn't use any footage of Prue and had to make do with what they had. But I think that's more to do with "Charmed Again" being in one of the earlier seasons of the show. Back then, they had a great team of writers and the show was actually really good. BTW, according to IMDB, Brad Kern wrote that episode. I may hate the guy, but even I admit that as a writer, he's actually pretty good. Shame then that he wouldn't know how to run a tv show if it slapped him in the face.

    I agree with alot of what has been said especially on Prue thing.. In the real world her departure wasn't planned but as of the 4th season it had happened so it can be reasonably stated that in the Charmed universe it was her destiny and that the Tempest reset time enter Paige was all apart of her destiny too.. But that is all I'll defend the rest were giant plotholes


    Yeah, I'll defend Prue's death but pretty much everything else was a plot hole.
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  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [49]May 16, 2008
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    well njz welcome back and hey i seem to light fire underneath ppl when i get involved now onto the debate

    1) sorry njz your comment is first on the list today congrats for making it to #1 though i want to point out that that angel of destiny said that remember there are many destines meaning many angels according to the show which means that angel may not have known that particular outcome of course i said this before and i will say again the way they seem to play the elders angels ect ect is that they are not always elders or angels or whatever and we have seen that it works that way for avatars as well being an elder an angel whatever is a reward for faitful service in the name of the greater good (leo prime and only example since the show ended) and in the case of the avatars it is a reward for being powerful enough to attract their attention .

    2) again no offense to EVERYONE but i am sick and tired of hearing about prue's death but to address it again no it may not have been planned behind the scenes but once it happened it showed this was her destiny come now we all know destiny works out the way it is meant to and with the behind the scenes stuff going on at the time it made it destiny even more so and yes i LOVED prue but i loved paige more prue was confident assertive strong and powerful but the last one was also a problem she was too powerful reflection could have reflected the source's powers hell cole's power's later on there would have been no challenge with billie and crhisty frankly if she had continued on they would have had to do what they did to phoebe in season 6 which means we would have had more gripes about that since i have seen gripes about phoebe's deempowerment i could only imagine what it would be like if prue had been around and had been the one to be depowered but please do the horse some mercy stop beating it and declare it dead sheesh i can hear the horse begging now.

    3) but on the subject of the transition from prue to paige season 3 to season 4 yes i agree beautiful no question in fact i would call it flawless

    4) one last thing about prue morality bites is not a good arguement at all because PRUE piper and phoebe crossed the line in that future oh my god piper even said soooooooo many personal gain spells that was the reason they needed the lesson to not go down that path ever .

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

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    NJZ

    [50]May 16, 2008
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:

    1) sorry njz your comment is first on the list today congrats for making it to #1 though i want to point out that that angel of destiny said that remember there are many destines meaning many angels according to the show which means that angel may not have known that particular outcome of course i said this before and i will say again the way they seem to play the elders angels ect ect is that they are not always elders or angels or whatever and we have seen that it works that way for avatars as well being an elder an angel whatever is a reward for faitful service in the name of the greater good (leo prime and only example since the show ended) and in the case of the avatars it is a reward for being powerful enough to attract their attention .

    2) again no offense to EVERYONE but i am sick and tired of hearing about prue's death but to address it again no it may not have been planned behind the scenes but once it happened it showed this was her destiny come now we all know destiny works out the way it is meant to and with the behind the scenes stuff going on at the time it made it destiny even more so and yes i LOVED prue but i loved paige more prue was confident assertive strong and powerful but the last one was also a problem she was too powerful reflection could have reflected the source's powers hell cole's power's later on there would have been no challenge with billie and crhisty frankly if she had continued on they would have had to do what they did to phoebe in season 6 which means we would have had more gripes about that since i have seen gripes about phoebe's deempowerment i could only imagine what it would be like if prue had been around and had been the one to be depowered but please do the horse some mercy stop beating it and declare it dead sheesh i can hear the horse begging now.

    1) I see what you mean, but even if there are loads of Angel of Destiny's, that particular one was assigned to the Charmed Ones, wasn't she? So then she should've known the outcome. What's the point of being an Angel of Destiny if you don't actually know what someone's destiny is? It just doesn't make sense, no matter how much logic anyone tries to apply to it. And what you said about being an Elder/Angel is a reward - I was aware that humans can become whitelighters and then Elders but was it ever stated that they could go on to be something so highly-ranked as the Angel of Destiny? I mean, the Angel of Destiny has a much higher stature than both Elders and Avatars (as seen in Vaya Con Leos) that it seems as if it's virtually impossible for someone to be able to reach that rank. I just kinda saw the Angel of Destiny as being primordial.

    2) I honestly don't have the energy to go over the Prue/Destiny thing again but I disagree with what you said about Prue's power being a problem later on in the series. Had Prue/Shannen stayed, we can look at it in two ways: Behind the Scenes and in the Charmedverse:

    Behind The Scenes:

    Had Shannen not left the show, I believe that her and Connie would've taken the show in a much darker direction. And had they done so, I don't think we would've had such problems regarding Prue's power. Plus, I don't think either of them would've come up with half the bull Kern came up with in terms of story-arcs and therefore we'd probably have no Billie & Christy or whatever. Hence, there'd be no problem with Prue and her powers either.

    In the Charmedverse:

    How do we know that Prue would've gained the power of reflection? As far as we know, she had TK and Astral Projection. I think those two powers would've grown as opposed to her gaining another power. And even if she DID get reflection, I don't think they'd disempower her like they did with Phoebe. With Phoebe, the Elders made up some BS excuse about her abusing her powers. Would Prue ever abuse her powers? No. She's not like that at all.

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    silverfoxy8472

    [51]May 16, 2008
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    njz once again

    1) if the angel of destiny in charmed is primordial then why are there many angel's of destiny ? which means they weren't always that way especially with the way the charmed verse is built

    2) the show has already shown that she had gotten reflection in a fairly short period considering how long it took piper to get exploding which is an extention of her orignial power reflection especialy the way it was portrayed is not an entension of her tk power

    neither was astral projection the only link between all of thme possibly is that they are mental powers and that barely holds up for reflection also let's not forget phoebe got levitation after a long period and in her case a VERY long period mind you again leveitation is also a mental power which is a weak link between premonition and levitation .

    3) as for the whole thing about prue's nature under the sin of pride (yes i know an outside influence) it was shown she did things for the greater glory of prue and you get hit with the one you are most susceptible to which means? drumroll please she is very susceptible for pride which is how the future of mortality bites came about obviously she is susceptible to it and i saw her in the third season if she kept it up she would have gotten to the point the greater good in her mind would have been her i could see it creeping over prue it wouldn't have happened as fast as phoebe had it happen to her because in phoebe's case her fall was caused by seduction which as leo said is far more insiidious prue would have gone on believing she was doing for the greater good.

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

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    NJZ

    [52]May 16, 2008
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:

    njz once again

    1) if the angel of destiny in charmed is primordial then why are there many angel's of destiny ? which means they weren't always that way especially with the way the charmed verse is built

    2) the show has already shown that she had gotten reflection in a fairly short period considering how long it took piper to get exploding which is an extention of her orignial power reflection especialy the way it was portrayed is not an entension of her tk power

    neither was astral projection the only link between all of thme possibly is that they are mental powers and that barely holds up for reflection also let's not forget phoebe got levitation after a long period and in her case a VERY long period mind you again leveitation is also a mental power which is a weak link between premonition and levitation .

    3) as for the whole thing about prue's nature under the sin of pride (yes i know an outside influence) it was shown she did things for the greater glory of prue and you get hit with the one you are most susceptible to which means? drumroll please she is very susceptible for pride which is how the future of mortality bites came about obviously she is susceptible to it and i saw her in the third season if she kept it up she would have gotten to the point the greater good in her mind would have been her i could see it creeping over prue it wouldn't have happened as fast as phoebe had it happen to her because in phoebe's case her fall was caused by seduction which as leo said is far more insiidious prue would have gone on believing she was doing for the greater good.

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

    1) What I meant was that I assumed ALL angel's of destiny were primordial, not just the one from Season 8.

    2)Can you remind me which episode exactly showed Prue with the reflection power? Because I don't recall that happening at all. Though it has been a very long while since I watched the series so I could just be forgetting.

    3) Yes, Prue is susceptible to pride but I do not think she'd ever let it get to her so much that she'd begin abusing her powers. Prue was always about protecting those close to her and I don't think any amount of pride would take her to such a place that she'd do things to risk herself or her sisters. I just don't see it happening with her.

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    th77

    [53]May 17, 2008
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    NJZ wrote:
    silverfoxy8472 wrote:

    njz once again

    1) if the angel of destiny in charmed is primordial then why are there many angel's of destiny ? which means they weren't always that way especially with the way the charmed verse is built

    2) the show has already shown that she had gotten reflection in a fairly short period considering how long it took piper to get exploding which is an extention of her orignial power reflection especialy the way it was portrayed is not an entension of her tk power

    neither was astral projection the only link between all of thme possibly is that they are mental powers and that barely holds up for reflection also let's not forget phoebe got levitation after a long period and in her case a VERY long period mind you again leveitation is also a mental power which is a weak link between premonition and levitation .

    3) as for the whole thing about prue's nature under the sin of pride (yes i know an outside influence) it was shown she did things for the greater glory of prue and you get hit with the one you are most susceptible to which means? drumroll please she is very susceptible for pride which is how the future of mortality bites came about obviously she is susceptible to it and i saw her in the third season if she kept it up she would have gotten to the point the greater good in her mind would have been her i could see it creeping over prue it wouldn't have happened as fast as phoebe had it happen to her because in phoebe's case her fall was caused by seduction which as leo said is far more insiidious prue would have gone on believing she was doing for the greater good.

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

    1) What I meant was that I assumed ALL angel's of destiny were primordial, not just the one from Season 8.

    2)Can you remind me which episode exactly showed Prue with the reflection power? Because I don't recall that happening at all. Though it has been a very long while since I watched the series so I could just be forgetting.

    3) Yes, Prue is susceptible to pride but I do not think she'd ever let it get to her so much that she'd begin abusing her powers. Prue was always about protecting those close to her and I don't think any amount of pride would take her to such a place that she'd do things to risk herself or her sisters. I just don't see it happening with her.

    You are correct she never had the power of reflection..
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    NJZ

    [54]May 17, 2008
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    th77 wrote:
    You are correct she never had the power of reflection..


    Good to know. I'm glad I wasn't forgetting one of the sisters' powers
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    JoshSutton

    [55]May 18, 2008
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    NJZ wrote:
    th77 wrote:
    You are correct she never had the power of reflection..
    Good to know. I'm glad I wasn't forgetting one of the sisters' powers
    Power of reflection? Do you mean deflection? Do i mean deflection? I'm confused... reflection like in a mirror?
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    NJZ

    [56]May 18, 2008
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    JoshSutton wrote:
    NJZ wrote:
    th77 wrote:
    You are correct she never had the power of reflection..
    Good to know. I'm glad I wasn't forgetting one of the sisters' powers
    Power of reflection? Do you mean deflection? Do i mean deflection? I'm confused... reflection like in a mirror?


    lol, I'm not sure really. I was just replying to silverfoxy. I'm guessing reflection and deflection would be pretty similar anyway?
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    JoshSutton

    [57]May 18, 2008
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    NJZ wrote:
    JoshSutton wrote:
    NJZ wrote:
    th77 wrote:
    You are correct she never had the power of reflection..
    Good to know. I'm glad I wasn't forgetting one of the sisters' powers
    Power of reflection? Do you mean deflection? Do i mean deflection? I'm confused... reflection like in a mirror?
    lol, I'm not sure really. I was just replying to silverfoxy. I'm guessing reflection and deflection would be pretty similar anyway?
    Lol its confusing. Maybe there's a guide somewhere that has definitions of powers?
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    th77

    [58]May 18, 2008
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    NJZ wrote:
    JoshSutton wrote:
    NJZ wrote:
    th77 wrote:
    You are correct she never had the power of reflection..
    Good to know. I'm glad I wasn't forgetting one of the sisters' powers
    Power of reflection? Do you mean deflection? Do i mean deflection? I'm confused... reflection like in a mirror?
    lol, I'm not sure really. I was just replying to silverfoxy. I'm guessing reflection and deflection would be pretty similar anyway?
    Lol, it is deflection.. And she did not not have that power either!
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    silverfoxy8472

    [59]May 19, 2008
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    ok sorry i am sure i got reflection and deflection mixed up but let me explain what i mean it is a power that throws back the powers directed at her like energy balls fire balls ect ect it made prue tooo powerful sorry about my mistres SKREWER ME OK?

    sincerley,

    silverfoxy

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    silverfoxy8472

    [60]May 19, 2008
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    ok sorry about the short posts today but this is the last for today and it is to say yes prue had deflection in fact as the show just restarted i can find out where and if i am wrong i will write an apology after charmed again comes on again ok? o hope this is acceptable

    sincerely,

    silverfoxy

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