Charmed Forums

The WB (ended 2006)

H o m o s e x u a l i t y In the Charmed Universe

  • Avatar of me_charmed_1

    me_charmed_1

    [101]Sep 26, 2006
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    buffyjl wrote:

    TC_88 wrote:
    But there are no such things as witches in Islam. Right?

    They are mentioned, but it could be a general term for evil satan worshippers.

    and jinns(or however you spell it) .. yaye 1000th post!!

    Edited on 09/26/2006 9:19am
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  • Avatar of buffyjl

    buffyjl

    [102]Sep 26, 2006
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    Good 1! Actually, Jinns are beings on another plane and we can't see them (Astral plane? If so, very Charmed-y !). Just like humans they have the choice for good and evil.

    I'm pretty sure the mythology of Genies came from Jinn; not sure of the actual connection.

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  • Avatar of TC_88

    TC_88

    [103]Sep 26, 2006
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    buffyjl wrote:

    Good 1! Actually, Jinns are beings on another plane and we can't see them (Astral plane? If so, very Charmed-y !). Just like humans they have the choice for good and evil.

    I'm pretty sure the mythology of Genies came from Jinn; not sure of the actual connection.

    maybe its opposite. Jinns got free will; Genies dont got free will.
    and then there's the whole magic thing
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  • Avatar of me_charmed_1

    me_charmed_1

    [104]Sep 26, 2006
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    buffyjl wrote:

    Good ! Actually, Jinns are beings on another plane and we can't see them (Astral plane? If so, very Charmed-y !). Just like humans they have the choice for good and evil.

    I'm pretty sure the mythology of Genies came from Jinn; not sure of the actual connection.

    and there made of fire... apparently they live in trees?
    (im not sure if this post will be posted like a thousands times, becuase tv.com is playing up, sorry ..

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  • Avatar of me_charmed_1

    me_charmed_1

    [105]Sep 26, 2006
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    buffyjl wrote:

    Good ! Actually, Jinns are beings on another plane and we can't see them (Astral plane? If so, very Charmed-y !). Just like humans they have the choice for good and evil.

    I'm pretty sure the mythology of Genies came from Jinn; not sure of the actual connection.

    and there made of fire... apparently they live in trees?
    (im not sure if this post will be posted like a thousands times, becuase tv.com is playing up, sorry ..)

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  • Avatar of buffyjl

    buffyjl

    [106]Sep 27, 2006
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    TC_88 wrote:
    buffyjl wrote:

    Good 1! Actually, Jinns are beings on another plane and we can't see them (Astral plane? If so, very Charmed-y !). Just like humans they have the choice for good and evil.

    I'm pretty sure the mythology of Genies came from Jinn; not sure of the actual connection.

    maybe its opposite. Jinns got free will; Genies dont got free will. and then there's the whole magic thing

    That's a cool point.

    Just wondering how many Genie shows have been out there? I liked reruns of I Dream of Genie as a kid, but I completely LOVED Weird Science ! Lisa was such a great computer genie; with just the right combination of powers, bumbling, and lots of attitude ! I liked how she was friends with the boys and worked with them, unlike the doltish movie.

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  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [107]Sep 27, 2006
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    me_charmed_1 wrote:
    buffyjl wrote:

    TC_88 wrote:
    But there are no such things as witches in Islam. Right?

    They are mentioned, but it could be a general term for evil satan worshippers.

    and jinns(or however you spell it) .. yaye 1000th post!!



    Yeah, what Buffyjl said. BTW, what are Jinns? in my language, the word 'Jinn' means ghost.
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  • Avatar of buffyjl

    buffyjl

    [108]Sep 27, 2006
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    NJZ wrote:
    me_charmed_1 wrote:
    buffyjl wrote:

    TC_88 wrote:
    But there are no such things as witches in Islam. Right?

    They are mentioned, but it could be a general term for evil satan worshippers.

    and jinns(or however you spell it) .. yaye 1000th post!!

    Yeah, what Buffyjl said. BTW, what are Jinns? in my language, the word 'Jinn' means ghost.

     In Urdu I don't think Jinn means ghost, it probably means Jinn.

     But it is definitely culturally used as ghost since Jinn are beings we cannot see.

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  • Avatar of charmed7thgirl

    charmed7thgirl

    [109]Sep 28, 2006
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    i think that it would just have made the show stupid. and the ratings would have gone down a lot.
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  • Avatar of maxpower03

    maxpower03

    [110]Sep 28, 2006
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    charmed7thgirl wrote:
    i think that it would just have made the show stupid. and the ratings would have gone down a lot.


    Can you explain why?

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  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [111]Sep 28, 2006
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    buffyjl wrote:
    NJZ wrote:
    me_charmed_1 wrote:
    buffyjl wrote:

    TC_88 wrote:
    But there are no such things as witches in Islam. Right?

    They are mentioned, but it could be a general term for evil satan worshippers.

    and jinns(or however you spell it) .. yaye 1000th post!!

    Yeah, what Buffyjl said. BTW, what are Jinns? in my language, the word 'Jinn' means ghost.

     In Urdu I don't think Jinn means ghost, it probably means Jinn.

     But it is definitely culturally used as ghost since Jinn are beings we cannot see.



    oh okay. cool
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  • Avatar of trajet

    trajet

    [112]Dec 23, 2006
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    I wouldn't have stopped watching Charmed if they had more gay characters, but I don't really see how introducing a character of a different  sexual orientation could have really helped the quality of the show.  Also, I'm not against gays, but I'm firmly rooted in the fact that homosexuality isn't natural.  I do have a couple of gay friends, so I'm not against them at all.  Also, I don't think homophobia exists at all because it's stupid to say that someone is scared of a gay person, ya know.  Think about it, I say I hate black people I'm called a rascist, but I say I hate gay people and I'm called a homophobic.  So in the first situation I'm against or hate a certain race, but in the second, even though I say I hate gays, I'm actually just afraid of them?  Try to figure that one out.
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  • Avatar of ifallbodeswell

    ifallbodeswell

    [113]Dec 24, 2006
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    I've nothing against religion. I've nothing against homosexuality. Honestly, I say, if you've got either one, then flaunt it ;D. But when people go on using God as an excuse to tell people how to live their lives it really bugs me though I know I shouldn't get too antzy about it cause whitelighter333 I didn't take that to be what you were getting at anyway. I personally believe that if someone is gay then they are gay and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it (even God!). The last thing we need in this world is MORE prejudice.

    You know, all the people I know who are religious enough to not believe in the reality of homosexuality (hey that rhymed) are also religious enough to absolutely despise magic in any way, shape or form. Which to me, makes it ironic that people who are so Christian can also be fans of this show. Does anyone else find that strange? To all the religious people in this forum (not picking on you, I swear I'm just curious), What are your views on magic and the "occult"?

    PS: MaxPower that's a good point, (what you said on 1st Sep) about straight people not choosing to be straight, therefore how can homosexuals choose to be homosexual. VERY true.

    Wow, I can't believe how liberal I was.

    About the presence of homosexuality (boy that's a long word to type out on the keyboard!) in the show. I think one of Paige's ex-lovers could have been really interesting, but to work it would have had to have had some kind of magic ties or else it would have completely taken away from the fantasy aspect of the show and would have seemed too random. Maybe her ex could have dabbled in a bit of magic, like it was a couple thing they did. Dunno.

    Oh, and I have another query to put forth, how is it that "Adam and Steve" is wrong, but Adam and Eve's incestual family was considered right? I HEARD incest was only wrong after Moses' time, so wouldn't it be fair to say if God hasn't changed his mind about homosexuality, then he still believes that families should [shudder] STAY TOGETHER. If you get what I mean. In that way, it's POSSIBLE that the views of some religions are different from those of God himself.

    Not seeming so liberal anymore.

    Oh crap! I just realised I've started debating and gone completely off topic. Sorry everyone.
    Merry Christmas everyone and Happy Birthday to little baby Jesus! (ah, irony)
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  • Avatar of maxpower03

    maxpower03

    [114]Dec 24, 2006
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    trajet wrote:
    Also, I don't think homophobia exists at all because it's stupid to say that someone is scared of a gay person, ya know.


    Homophobia isn't just being "scared" of homosexuality, it means any form of anti-gay feelings. Although most of it is rooted in being scared of it, since most prejudice is rooted in that. Back in the day, white people were scared of black people taking their jobs or their wives or whatever so they barred them out of their towns and communities. Same with illegal aliens now, people are just scared that they're all evil or all terrorists or whatever, unknowing to the fact that the majority of them just want protection from real evil. Phew. Way off-topic there.

    ifallbodeswell wrote:
    Oh, and I have another query to put forth, how is it that "Adam and Steve" is wrong, but Adam and Eve's incestual family was considered right? I HEARD incest was only wrong after Moses' time, so wouldn't it be fair to say if God hasn't changed his mind about homosexuality, then he still believes that families should [shudder] STAY TOGETHER. If you get what I mean. In that way, it's POSSIBLE that the views of some religions are different from those of God himself.


    I always used to say that back when I was a little kid. It's so icky though. If Adam and Eve got together and had babies, then obviously the kids would have to have sex with each other to produce more kids. And that's just to ick-worthy to think about right now.

    Oh, and Happy Christmas everybody

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  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [115]Dec 24, 2006
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    ifallbodeswell wrote:
    To all the religious people in this forum (not picking on you, I swear I'm just curious), What are your views on magic and the "occult"?


    I'm a muslim and it's against my religion to practice witchcraft. Magic is seen as a form of evil. But on Charmed, its fictional so its not against my religion to watch it or whatever.
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  • Avatar of stopettearoma

    stopettearoma

    [116]Dec 24, 2006
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    maxpower03 wrote:

    Am I right in thinking that the only confirmed gay characters in all of Charmed's eight seasons were Brenda and Carly, the two lesbians from Charrrmed!? I've always wondered why exactly we were never given a gay character, especially as the show is set in San Francisco, which is essentially the gay capital of the world. Obviously, not every show needs a gay character, but it would have been nice to see at least a couple of guest characters that were homosexual.

    I recently read on the Television Without Pity forums some quotes from former writer Krista Vernoff, who said "This was Spelling Entertainment, so there was not a lot of support in the room for putting the gays back in San Francisco". Is that really surprising? Aaron Spelling comes from that generation where most people were either moderately homophobic or moderately racist, but, still, I would have thought such prejudices would be left out of the writers room, am I right?

    It may have just been accidental, but I find it bad, even embarassing, that the show only had one episode featuring a gay person. Also taking into consideration that it would be a push to find many straight male adults who would even tune into the show on a regular basis, I've always found it strange.

    Does anybody agree that homosexuality should have been referenced more in the Charmed universe? Or pin-point any episodes I may have forgotten that had a gay character?

    Also, I had to space out the letters in the topic title since it's a censored word on the forums... for some wacky reason. So, please could any mods ignore the fact that I didn't block the whole word out as it's not in any way an abusive, derogatory discussion. Thanks.

    To get this thread closer to the topic, I must correct a few things here.   Aaron Spellling was never homophobic.  He hired Rock Hudson to guest - star on Dynasty knowing that he was gay Aaron didn't intervene when the script called for Rock to kiss Linda Evans.  Rock hadn't admitted to being HIV positive, but many straight men knew he cruised men whenever he could.  He made passes at many straight men over a period of thirty years, including the powerful agent Jay Bernstein.  (Jay said that on camera.)  Yet Aaron Spelling, then just 60 years old and aware of the AIDS epidemic, okayed a script that had Rock kissing Linda Evans.  If he was homophobic, then so is Liza Minnelli.

    Also, what makes you think more gay men than straight watch Charmed ?   Just because the three protagonists are strong women who are also demure, dreamy and romantic doesn't mean they turn off straight men.  Barbra Streisand is an entertainer whose fan base supposedly consists 99 percent of Jewish woman and gay men.  In the early 1960s her fans knew she sang a lot of 1920s torch songs she only could have found on old 78 RPM records, and they knew she had a dreamy, old-fashioned quality reflected in some of her wardrobe choices.  Yet her current concert tour is selling tickets to many thouands of men, some of whom sure don't look openly gay During her 1994 tour, photographers captured Warren Beatty attending the Los Angeles concert.   Is he a closeted gay ?

    If Streisand seems too much of a stretch away from Charmed because she never appears on series TV, then consider Sex And The City.  Supposedly 99 percent of the men who watch it are gay but what about its creator,
    Darren Star ?   He created it all by himself.   Aaron Spelling didn't help him as he did with Beverly Hills 90210.  I have seen Mr. Star interviewed on the E ! Channel about the creation of his show.   He sure didn't seem gay and I've heard from people who knew him in Maryland that he is straight as a board.  He never told his friends there that he wanted to create dreamy, romantic stuff for women.  He said he wanted to study filmmaking at USC.

    Also, how can you expect Charmed to have more openly gay characters when so many of them are demons, seers, darklighters and other mythical characters ?  You know the seer played by Debbi Morgan in many episodes from 2002 / 2003 ?   You're not supposed to think about her character's sexuality.  She's a mythical character who offers viewers an alternative reality that has nothing to do with human sexuality.

    As for the San Francisco - area gay community, it keeps itself out of many TV shows, movies and rock bands that originate from their backyard.  You never saw gay characters in Francis Ford Coppola's 1973 film The Conversation or the TV series Streets of San Francisco.  They were filmed on location when Harvey Milk was alive, and he never complained about them.  In many gay communities around the USA, people have been saying since the 1970s that series TV is an insult to their intelligence.  If you don't like it, read a book.  So why expect Charmed to blaze a trail for you ?   The entire basis of the show is fantasy.  The newspaper where Phoebe works, the Bay Mirror, never existed.  Even the idea that so many San Francisco people would read a newspaper advice column is bull.  Every intelligent person in the Bay Area knows that one of their two newspapers, the Examiner, sucks.  They don't care.  They surf the Internet and read free weekly papers, instead.

    If you want to see gay people and gay issues presented by Aaron Spelling, watch two reruns of 90210 on soap.net every day.  You'll see many gay characters, such as a teen - ager who works in a car wash and befriends David Silver in 1999.  There was Steve's fraternity brother in 1993.  Steve and Brandon need to use a pay phone, they enter a bar not knowing it's a gay bar, and there they see the fraternity brother.  In 2000 Dylan McKay defends a gay co-worker in a community youth center when several parents complain about "a guy like that."  90210 pretended to take place in reality, but Charmed never did.

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  • Avatar of forihathsinned

    forihathsinned

    [117]Dec 24, 2006
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    Personally, I don't believe in "straight" gay or labels like that. I believe you love who you love. When people are attracted to both girls and guys, they are called "bisexual". Bull. Crap. If the people you like/love in your life happen to be guys, then great. Same with girls.

    That being said, it would've been nice if Paige had had a girlfriend or two. Even Prue and Phoebe. Piper, not so much since she's always sorta had Leo and they were obviously meant to be together.

    Edited on 12/28/2006 7:50pm
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  • Avatar of maxpower03

    maxpower03

    [118]Dec 26, 2006
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    [QUOTE="stopettearoma"]To get this thread closer to the topic, I must correct a few things here.   Aaron Spellling was never homophobic.  He hired Rock Hudson to guest - star on Dynasty knowing that he was gay Aaron didn't intervene when the script called for Rock to kiss Linda Evans.  Rock hadn't admitted to being HIV positive, but many straight men knew he cruised men whenever he could.  He made passes at many straight men over a period of thirty years, including the powerful agent Jay Bernstein.  (Jay said that on camera.)  Yet Aaron Spelling, then just 60 years old and aware of the AIDS epidemic, okayed a script that had Rock kissing Linda Evans.  If he was homophobic, then so is Liza Minnelli.[/QUOTE]

    The reasoning for me calling Aaron moderately homophobic is due to the evidence. For one, Krista Vernoff's comment, secondly, the fact that Matt on Melrose Place never had a long-term relationship which showed any actual affection. Rock Hudson was a legend, and probably one of the few movie stars who was willing to do TV back in the 1980's, since TV was always looked down upon by movie stars back then, as it was mostly trash. Huge movie star + Dynasty = huge ratings and media coverage.

    And comparing gay icon Liza Minnelli to Aaron Spelling, a man who invented "jiggle TV" and somebody who sought every opportunity to get a catfight into his TV shows, is ridiculous.

    stopettearoma wrote:
    Also, what makes you think more gay men than straight watch Charmed ?   Just because the three protagonists are strong women who are also demure, dreamy and romantic doesn't mean they turn off straight men.  Barbra Streisand is an entertainer whose fan base supposedly consists 99 percent of Jewish woman and gay men.  In the early 1960s her fans knew she sang a lot of 1920s torch songs she only could have found on old 78 RPM records, and they knew she had a dreamy, old-fashioned quality reflected in some of her wardrobe choices.  Yet her current concert tour is selling tickets to many thouands of men, some of whom sure don't look openly gay During her 1994 tour, photographers captured Warren Beatty attending the Los Angeles concert.   Is he a closeted gay ?


    I personally doubt many adult straight males would watch a show which sees young woman helping leprechauns or battling evil fairy/troll creatures. The only reason the majority of straight adult male viewers would watch this show would be to see Alyssa's boobs or all the revealing outfits the sisters wear, not because of the "amazing storytelling".

    And, again with the silly comparisons. Barbra Streisand is a singer, and a singer can't only be liked by one particular sexuality. Television or acting is completely different, since I imagine leprechauns and fairies only interest specific people, whilst a musical genre isn't as closed and specific as said magical creatures are.

    stopettearoma wrote:
    If Streisand seems too much of a stretch away from Charmed because she never appears on series TV, then consider Sex And The City.  Supposedly 99 percent of the men who watch it are gay but what about its creator, Darren Star ?   He created it all by himself.   Aaron Spelling didn't help him as he did with Beverly Hills 90210.  I have seen Mr. Star interviewed on the E ! Channel about the creation of his show.   He sure didn't seem gay and I've heard from people who knew him in Maryland that he is straight as a board.  He never told his friends there that he wanted to create dreamy, romantic stuff for women.  He said he wanted to study filmmaking at USC.


    Darren Star is gay and your comment about "didn't seem gay doesn't make sense, since gay people don't look or act a specific way. And Sex and the City is also too different a show than Charmed. When I talk about Charmed, I talk about the later years, years where most storylines revolved around magical creatures, or send-ups of other shows or movies, those years, not the early years, which could easily appeal to anybody. Sex and the City is a romantic comedy series which is very critically acclaimed, meaning there's more of an interest in it than Charmed, meaning broader audiences would hear about it and check it out. Charmed is seen as a ridiculous, lightweight teen show about three boob-heavy women battling lame demons, meaning the demographic it attracts would be less broad.

    stopettearoma wrote:
    Also, how can you expect Charmed to have more openly gay characters when so many of them are demons, seers, darklighters and other mythical characters ?  You know the seer played by Debbi Morgan in many episodes from 2002 / 2003 ?   You're not supposed to think about her character's sexuality.  She's a mythical character who offers viewers an alternative reality that has nothing to do with human sexuality.


    Obviously. I wasn't debating that. I was saying just anybody, random guest stars, innocents etc. If The Seer had randomly started saying how she's a huge lesbian, then it'd be completely out of context and unnessecary.

    stopettearoma wrote:
    As for the San Francisco - area gay community, it keeps itself out of many TV shows, movies and rock bands that originate from their backyard.  You never saw gay characters in Francis Ford Coppola's 1973 film The Conversation or the TV series Streets of San Francisco.  They were filmed on location when Harvey Milk was alive, and he never complained about them.  In many gay communities around the USA, people have been saying since the 1970s that series TV is an insult to their intelligence.  If you don't like it, read a book.  So why expect Charmed to blaze a trail for you ?   The entire basis of the show is fantasy.  The newspaper where Phoebe works, the Bay Mirror, never existed.  Even the idea that so many San Francisco people would read a newspaper advice column is bull.  Every intelligent person in the Bay Area knows that one of their two newspapers, the Examiner, sucks.  They don't care.  They surf the Internet and read free weekly papers, instead.


    Can I basically say that I don't think you understand why I even started this thread. This forum blows, and I thought it'd be just an interesting subject to discuss, since everything else is "who's your favorite character" or "is there gonna be a spin-off". I'm not personally offended by the lack of gay folk on this show, I just figured it's odd how a show that's basically ideal for campy gay guys would feature barely any homosexuals. I'm not complaining because it's set in San Francisco and there are no gays on the show, I used San Fran as another example of why this show appears from the outset so gay friendly.


    I started this thread after reading Krista Vernoff's comments, and, judging by said comments, obviously somebody in Spelling Entertainment who had a lot of power wasn't interested in putting gay people on the show.

    Besides, I find you pretty rude. Nobody has responded with the same cocky attitude that you have used, and I think the whole "if you want gays on TV, watch another show" thing you're saying is pretty ignorant.

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  • Avatar of astralguy87

    astralguy87

    [119]Mar 31, 2008
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    Hmm I always wondered what the writers though about the gay issue on the show.

    The only references I can [vaguely] remember are the following:

    Ava and Phoebe (someone mentioned this already, but I remember the not so subtle hints pointed out in the TWOP site Charmed reviews, though this would fall into a creepy category since Ava was so much younger than Phoebe). When Prue walks in on them sitting on the floor doing witchcraft it was just too suggestive to be subtle. Maybe Ava had a crush or an intense big sister attachment complex *makes up psychological terms*.

    Piper's lying [to Leo or some other guy] about Phoebe being off to her gay & lesbian group (in order to let him know she wasn't available). It might have been the Wendigo, though it was definitely another other season 1 episode. I thought it was kinda funny, though others may feel it was tasteless of her.

    In a later season they're walking out from a shoe store and Piper says something about her thinking the salesman was gay.

    If anything, they make Piper sound slightly homophobic! Well I don't want to say homophobic, but more stereotyping.

    Phoebe and Paige (because they're younger?) just seemed like they would be more open minded.

    Prue (well Shannen's a Republican, which shocked me lol) would probably be against it or at best, not care.

    I think it would have been cool if they had made Chris gay because at least the character would have been more believable and less painful to watch; giving Drew character development beyond the boring preachy whitelighter dude saving the future.
    Edited on 03/31/2008 12:50am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of NJZ

    NJZ

    [120]Mar 31, 2008
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    astralguy87 wrote:
    I think it would have been cool if they had made Chris gay because at least the character would have been more believable and less painful to watch; giving Drew character development beyond the boring preachy whitelighter dude saving the future.


    I think it definitely would've made the character more interesting, but I don't think Drew could pull it off. I imagine that being straight but playing gay isn't an easy task. Especially when you want to stay AWAY from the stereotypes (which I assume a character like Chris would be like if he were a homosexual). I just don't think Drew could do that. Nor do I think the writers of the show could deliver a well-developed gay character that doesn't fit into the gay stereotype.
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