Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion Forums

Mainichi Broadcasting System (ended 2008)

Episode 44: Betrayal English Dub Discussion

  • Avatar of timekitten

    timekitten

    [1]May 16, 2009
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    Discuss R2 Episode 19. Adult Swim Video: Betrayal

    Oh god. It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. And then...I couldn't stop crying at the end.

    Edited on 05/23/2009 7:24am
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    Eman5805

    [2]May 17, 2009
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    Ahhh, anger's amazing ability to make people short sighted.

    Deitart was on track, but he was outgunned. And Tamaki's rapid 180 from backing Zero to sobbing like a child. Classic.

    And Suzaku finally sees the light, too bad it was about 30 episodes too late.
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    someguy0830

    [3]May 17, 2009
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    Rolo's death scene really puts it over the top for such an unlikable character.

    The Black Knights are asses. It's one thing to betray Lelouch. Flimsy evidence or not, there's at least some common sense in that. Doing so by throwing away Kallen's life, however, is inexcusable.
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    virginia17

    [4]May 17, 2009
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    Even though Rolo dies doing a noble deed, I still don't like him too much. Also, the way he died just didn't seem to make up for what he did to Shirley for some reason.

    How do I say this: I thought it was disturbing seeing both Lelouch and Suzaku kinda snap in this episode (Lelouch at the beginning and Suzaku at the end), but what do ya expect?

    And for one of Lelouch's most loyal followers, Kallen was almost easily fooled into believing Lelouch saw her as a pawn. I can't say I'm surprised the other Black Knights turned on Lelouch/Zero though, especially after learning of his Geass power, hearing that tape, getting more details about the Geass massacre, and losing a few more comrades (like Asahina). Such things could easily make anyone think their leader has been using them.

    Edited on 05/17/2009 2:29am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Brodoin15

    [5]May 17, 2009
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    I really didn't like how the Black Knights went from "Oh yay! Kallen, the best pilot we have, is back!" To "Move Kallen, or we'll shoot you and Zero."

    But at least Lelouch showed he did care about Kallen, since he told her she was simply a pawn, which I'm very sure he just said to make sure she'd not get killed.

    I can understand why they'd betray Lelouch, since no one likes to be used and considered a pawn, but still, he was the guy who took them to total victory in several battles. Granted, he used his Geass on his own army, but it was to gain victory.

    Personally, I'd rather be used by my leader to gain total victory, than not be used and suffer total defeat.

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    Dilla_the_Dude

    [6]May 17, 2009
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    It's not the fact that they betrayed Lelouch that got me, it's the fact that they did it only to put their trust in Schneizel, of all people.

    That's like screwing a the devil you know to join the devil you don't know. It's just not very smart, man.

    Edited on 05/17/2009 10:05am
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    Brodoin15

    [7]May 17, 2009
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    ^

    You're right. Why would they put so much trust in a guy they were trying to kill a few hours before?

    For all they know, everything really could be a lie, even the recording, to try to turn them against Zero.

    Most is true, I know, but the Black Knights don't know that.

    Edited on 05/17/2009 10:21am
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    timekitten

    [8]May 17, 2009
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    So you're saying they should just reject someone who came straight to them, came forward with what he knew, and provided thorough evidence to his claims over someone who hides behind a mask, keeps so many things to himself, and let's not forget, has mentally gone AWOL since the last battle? At least they had the decency to trade him for their whole country.

    Brodoin15 wrote:

    I can understand why they'd betray Lelouch, since no one likes to be used and considered a pawn, but still, he was the guy who took them to total victory in several battles. Granted, he used his Geass on his own army, but it was to gain victory.

    Personally, I'd rather be used by my leader to gain total victory, than not be used and suffer total defeat.

    I think the issue was more how he used everyone. You might be fine with him using you, but would you be just as willing if he used your brother, your sister, your oldest friend, your trusted comrade, etc, to win?
    Edited on 05/17/2009 11:23am
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    Dilla_the_Dude

    [9]May 17, 2009
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    timekitten wrote:

    So you're saying they should just reject someone who came straight to them, came forward with what he knew, and provided thorough evidence to his claims over someone who hides behind a mask, keeps so many things to himself, and let's not forget, has mentally gone AWOL since the last battle? At least they had the decency to trade him for their whole country.

    I'm going to spoil anything in the future, but yes. Schniezel is clearly a sweet talker. Just see how he used Nina's desire for revenge on Zero to get her to create a weapon of mass destruction. He's a sociopath


    ***SPOILER***


    ^That's major spoiler, don't click if you want to find out by the show itself.

    Edited on 05/17/2009 12:58pm
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    timekitten

    [10]May 17, 2009
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    Please, don't take me for a Schneizel fan. -_- I despise him. I really do. I'm not saying they're better off choosing Schneizel, that it's okay, or that it won't bite them in the rear later. I just understand why the Black Knights would choose him over Zero. They're looking at someone with just as great a track record (if not better and less destructive) as Zero, but without the secrets, lies, and disregard for human life.
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    Eman5805

    [11]May 17, 2009
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    What gets me most is they didn't even "trade" Lelouche for their country. They just agreed to personally execute him.

    Wouldn't the logical thing be to keep him alive for as long as possible until they've officially gained their country?
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    someguy0830

    [12]May 17, 2009
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    Eman5805 wrote:
    What gets me most is they didn't even "trade" Lelouche for their country. They just agreed to personally execute him.

    Wouldn't the logical thing be to keep him alive for as long as possible until they've officially gained their country?
    They weren't thinking logically. Lelouch was suddenly the magic man with the ability to command obedience in an instant. They reacted accordingly.
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    Brodoin15

    [13]May 17, 2009
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    I honestly understand why they betrayed Lelouch, but still.

    They went from total trust in Zero/Lelouch, some willing to die for him, to total trust in the guy who's army they were killing, and in turn were killing them, and trying to kill Zero. Even willing to kill Kallen if she didn't move.

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    JunkyJoe11

    [14]May 18, 2009
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    Eman5805 wrote:
    Ahhh, anger's amazing ability to make people short sighted. Deitart was on track, but he was outgunned. And Tamaki's rapid 180 from backing Zero to sobbing like a child. Classic. And Suzaku finally sees the light, too bad it was about 30 episodes too late.
    Yeah so much for faith. oh yeah why was detard beating up?
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    Dilla_the_Dude

    [15]May 18, 2009
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    JunkyJoe11 wrote:
    Eman5805 wrote:
    Ahhh, anger's amazing ability to make people short sighted. Deitart was on track, but he was outgunned. And Tamaki's rapid 180 from backing Zero to sobbing like a child. Classic. And Suzaku finally sees the light, too bad it was about 30 episodes too late.
    Yeah so much for faith. oh yeah why was detard beating up?
    The assumption is that it was Ougi, for holding Villeta captive.
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    someguy0830

    [16]May 18, 2009
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    Dilla_the_Dude wrote:
    The assumption is that it was Ougi, for holding Villeta captive.
    Both did it, according to a magazine. The reason is basically to get some payback.
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    Brodoin15

    [17]May 18, 2009
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    I wish they had shown it. One scene he's fine, next one he looks like he got the crap beat out of him.

    I was like: "Ok, what the heck happened to him?"

    Not showing the beat down would cause confusion among fans.

    Edited on 05/18/2009 2:54pm
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    someguy0830

    [18]May 18, 2009
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    Brodoin15 wrote:

    I wish they had shown it. One scene he's fine, next one he looks like he got the crap beat out of him.

    I was like: "Ok, what the heck happened to him?"

    Not showing the beat down would cause confusion among fans.

    They sort of imply it with that whole "protector" comment.
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    Brodoin15

    [19]May 18, 2009
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    True, but better to show than imply, IMO.
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    timekitten

    [20]May 18, 2009
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    Aw man, I really want to see that. XD They didn't imply it that strongly. I was confused too. They could at least shown Ougi and Villeta pulling Dietard into a room alone.
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