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Two thoughts.

  • Avatar of aktarian

    aktarian

    [1]Apr 1, 2014
    • member since: 02/20/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 134

    Producers need to address the fact that Kiera's future isn't going to happen. time travellers changed far too much for that to be a viable outcome. No matter what Alex does things beyond his control will affect things down the line. First Elena changed things by marrying somebody. He didn't marry somebody else and had this set of children instead of different one. Liber8 killed people. They influenced groups. Which is another set of changes down the line. Only way to restore Kiera's 2077 is to go back and kill every time traveller as they show up, dispose of their bodies and then time traveller swims toward the open ocean to drown.



    Kiera is not a nice person. She knows what kind of government she serves/served/will serve in 2077. Government that spies on every aspect of people's lives, government that indiscriminately fires on populated areas (see frequent use of unguided missiles and bombs in cities), corporations that withold food from the people, microchips that turn people into robots.... and yet despite all that she serves that governemnt willingly and eagerly. In the end she is no different than NKVD or Gestapo agents who were happy to send people into camps because they disagreed with government. She may be a caring mother and loving wife but the fact she is helping opressive regime overshadows that.

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  • Avatar of Continuum_in_OZ

    Continuum_in_OZ

    [2]Apr 2, 2014
    • member since: 04/03/14
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 2
    This contains spoilers, read at your own risk.
    aktarian wrote:

    She knows what kind of government she serves/served/will serve in 2077. Government that spies on every aspect of people's lives, government that indiscriminately fires on populated areas (see frequent use of unguided missiles and bombs in cities), corporations that withold food from the people, microchips that turn people into robots.... and yet despite all that she serves that governemnt willingly and eagerly. In the end she is no different than NKVD or Gestapo agents who were happy to send people into camps because they disagreed with government. She may be a caring mother and loving wife but the fact she is helping opressive regime overshadows that.



    The aspect I noticed most about Kiera, in the flashbacks and especially recently, is that she truly does seem to have problems with how the government worked. Yes, she was a bad person for providing her support and ignoring the truths set before her, but she was bothered by it. Now that she is living in this the modern society, she has really become more human and I think that her eyes have been opened a bit to the horrors of the future. I have absolutely no support for this, but I believe that coming back again from the future and witnessing the numerous consequences, has really showed Kiera that there is no future left for her. She is not trying to force Alec to make any choices, she really is just trying to discover who she is. All of her beliefs up until now have been shattered and she has no idea, really, where she is going. My largest support for this is that Kiera moved into her family's future home, remembering the decision she made when she chose to join CPS. We can assume that this is eventually what led to her sister's drug use and death, and to her being controlled by her superiors in the government.

    I believe that there is a growing part of Kiera that truly desires to change the future so that these atrocities will never happen.
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  • Avatar of Polantaris

    Polantaris

    [3]Apr 3, 2014
    • member since: 07/15/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 39
    aktarian wrote:

    Producers need to address the fact that Kiera's future isn't going to happen. time travellers changed far too much for that to be a viable outcome. No matter what Alex does things beyond his control will affect things down the line. First Elena changed things by marrying somebody. He didn't marry somebody else and had this set of children instead of different one. Liber8 killed people. They influenced groups. Which is another set of changes down the line. Only way to restore Kiera's 2077 is to go back and kill every time traveller as they show up, dispose of their bodies and then time traveller swims toward the open ocean to drown.



    Kiera is not a nice person. She knows what kind of government she serves/served/will serve in 2077. Government that spies on every aspect of people's lives, government that indiscriminately fires on populated areas (see frequent use of unguided missiles and bombs in cities), corporations that withold food from the people, microchips that turn people into robots.... and yet despite all that she serves that governemnt willingly and eagerly. In the end she is no different than NKVD or Gestapo agents who were happy to send people into camps because they disagreed with government. She may be a caring mother and loving wife but the fact she is helping opressive regime overshadows that.



    Here's something that they never discussed that they should have:
    There is the distinct possibility that these time jumping things are supposed to happen. There's no way to know that these things weren't supposed to happen. Future Alec may have sent Kiera back in time because he had all of those things happen to him, and he knew Kiera needed to go back in time for it to happen. We have absolutely no way to know that's not true. We have no way to know that Liber8 didn't go back in time in the first place in the future that Kiera knows.

    What you don't understand is that her mindset is set based on what she knew throughout her entire life. She likes her life in the future and doesn't want it to change. The more she stays in the past the more she sees how impossible it would be for her to change anything anyway, there are people constantly and deliberately trying to ensure things happen how she knows it. In reality she'd get popped in the head in half a second if she started trying to change things for what WE would see as the better result. And in reality, we don't even know what the future really would be in 2077 if the corporations didn't take over. She has no idea how anything would end up, and in the end she just wants to live her life with her family.
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  • Avatar of aktarian

    aktarian

    [4]Apr 3, 2014
    • member since: 02/20/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 134

    Continuum_in_OZ wrote:
    This contains spoilers, read at your own risk.
    aktarian wrote:


    She knows what kind of government she serves/served/will serve in 2077. Government that spies on every aspect of people's lives, government that indiscriminately fires on populated areas (see frequent use of unguided missiles and bombs in cities), corporations that withold food from the people, microchips that turn people into robots.... and yet despite all that she serves that governemnt willingly and eagerly. In the end she is no different than NKVD or Gestapo agents who were happy to send people into camps because they disagreed with government. She may be a caring mother and loving wife but the fact she is helping opressive regime overshadows that.


    The aspect I noticed most about Kiera, in the flashbacks and especially recently, is that she truly does seem to have problems with how the government worked. Yes, she was a bad person for providing her support and ignoring the truths set before her, but she was bothered by it. Now that she is living in this the modern society, she has really become more human and I think that her eyes have been opened a bit to the horrors of the future. I have absolutely no support for this, but I believe that coming back again from the future and witnessing the numerous consequences, has really showed Kiera that there is no future left for her. She is not trying to force Alec to make any choices, she really is just trying to discover who she is. All of her beliefs up until now have been shattered and she has no idea, really, where she is going. My largest support for this is that Kiera moved into her family's future home, remembering the decision she made when she chose to join CPS. We can assume that this is eventually what led to her sister's drug use and death, and to her being controlled by her superiors in the government. I believe that there is a growing part of Kiera that truly desires to change the future so that these atrocities will never happen.



    But the thing is she wasn't bothered by it much. In season one she is sent to put down riots and is shocked to see rioters are stealing food. food that was supposed to be distributed. and what does she do? She mentions it to her husband who then says "You sound like one of Liber8 terrorists" after which she drops the issue. Clearly not being called Liber8 supporter is more impotant than people going hungry.



    Then you have her all excited about how she can get everything on everybody in future but when her CMR data is stored that is violation of her privacy.


    And at least early in series she sounded like she looks forward to time when pesky things like right to attorney and such will be gone.

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  • Avatar of aktarian

    aktarian

    [5]Apr 3, 2014
    • member since: 02/20/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 134

    Polantaris wrote:
    aktarian wrote:


    Producers need to address the fact that Kiera's future isn't going to happen. time travellers changed far too much for that to be a viable outcome. No matter what Alex does things beyond his control will affect things down the line. First Elena changed things by marrying somebody. He didn't marry somebody else and had this set of children instead of different one. Liber8 killed people. They influenced groups. Which is another set of changes down the line. Only way to restore Kiera's 2077 is to go back and kill every time traveller as they show up, dispose of their bodies and then time traveller swims toward the open ocean to drown.



    Kiera is not a nice person. She knows what kind of government she serves/served/will serve in 2077. Government that spies on every aspect of people's lives, government that indiscriminately fires on populated areas (see frequent use of unguided missiles and bombs in cities), corporations that withold food from the people, microchips that turn people into robots.... and yet despite all that she serves that governemnt willingly and eagerly. In the end she is no different than NKVD or Gestapo agents who were happy to send people into camps because they disagreed with government. She may be a caring mother and loving wife but the fact she is helping opressive regime overshadows that.


    Here's something that they never discussed that they should have: There is the distinct possibility that these time jumping things are supposed to happen. There's no way to know that these things weren't supposed to happen. Future Alec may have sent Kiera back in time because he had all of those things happen to him, and he knew Kiera needed to go back in time for it to happen. We have absolutely no way to know that's not true. We have no way to know that Liber8 didn't go back in time in the first place in the future that Kiera knows.




    Actually that is mentioned by Alec quite early when he talks about various time travel theories. Everything that happens is in fact a loop going between 1970s when Elena showed up and 2077 when rest were sent back.



    Polantaris wrote:


    What you don't understand is that her mindset is set based on what she knew throughout her entire life. She likes her life in the future and doesn't want it to change. The more she stays in the past the more she sees how impossible it would be for her to change anything anyway, there are people constantly and deliberately trying to ensure things happen how she knows it. In reality she'd get popped in the head in half a second if she started trying to change things for what WE would see as the better result. And in reality, we don't even know what the future really would be in 2077 if the corporations didn't take over. She has no idea how anything would end up, and in the end she just wants to live her life with her family.



    Her mindset is based on what she knows. but she knows what government does. Spying. Witholding food. Indiscriminate use of weapons against civilian areas. And so on. The only thing that was shown to bother her was food thing and even there she was willing to drop the issue when it bacame inconvenient. She is shaped by her knowledge but that doesn't make her a nice person. as I said, she is little, if any, different than NKVD or Gestapo agents who thought they were doing what's best for society and were building better future. Even if she thinks those things are good and/or necessary that still doesn't make her a nice person.

    Edited on 04/03/2014 10:42pm
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  • Avatar of Syragar

    Syragar

    [6]Apr 12, 2014
    • member since: 04/06/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 7

    I also admit that I also think Kiera is not a nice person. But I'll give more reasons that don't include her involvement in the corrupt government in her future.


    I think she can be a bit condescending toward Alec... a person who willfully helps her whenever he can without asking for anything in return... even in times where it is very inconvenient for him. If anything, she owes him many times over. I don't blame Alec for wanting to go back in time to save Emily (who wouldn't have died if it wasn't for Kiera in the first place). Yet Kiera is angry at him for not letting her use the device to go back to the future with her family and abandon her "cause" to fix the timeline. She continues to make hurtful stabs at Alec every chance she gets, even though he continues to do what he can to help her.


    I understand her desire to go home... but she's a bit too obsessed with it. She promised Alec that she would protect Emily, but then abandoned her as soon as she thought she would lose the quantum device (which would have been a possible way for her to return home). Her desire to go home was more important than the promise she made to her closest friend... to protect the life of someone he cared deeply about.

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