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Official discussion thread: "100" - Spoilers

  • Avatar of tellygirl

    tellygirl

    [41]Nov 27, 2009
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    I agree, that was probably one of the most emotionally exhausting, brilliant episodes of not only Criminal Minds but ANY television series I have ever seen. I was so overwhelmed that when my telephone rang while I was was watching I couldn't answer it because I knew I wouldn't be able to talk. How could so much be packed into less than 45 minutes? I deliberately avoided reading any spoilers so I was shocked when both Haley and Sam died. I thought D.B. Sweeney had filmed more episodes so I wasn't sure if The Reaper storyline would actually be concluded in the 100th. I know a lot of people didn't like Haley but while I was watching the events unfold I really hoped that she and Hotch would get back together as I truly believe they loved each other. Her cell phone conversation where she asked Hotch to tell Jack to "believe in love because it is the most important thing" had me in tears and reminded me of the phone conversations of 9/11 when invariably, the one thing people wanted to do when facing death was to call their families and tell them how much they loved them. Jack was saved physically but Haley's words might save him emotionally in the future and I'm so pleased she managed to express them.

    I've only really got enough time to say that the writing and acting was outstanding.
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    nicky2910

    [42]Nov 27, 2009
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    welnoc wrote:

    Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I didn't like the excessive beating of Foyet. There was no cheering in my house. Hotch was no better than Foyet in the end, though I suppose it serves as a lesson in not bottling up your feelings. Revenge is never good and is NOT the same as justice. Hotch wil have to live for the rest of his life with the fact that in the end, he was just as much an animal as Foyet.

    I wouldn't go as far as calling him "as much an animal as Foyet" - but I do agree with your assessment. IMO in the end Foyet won because he managed to provoke Hotch so far that he lost all control. And this was about vengeance - Hotch was in blind rage and grief, there's nothing that screams justice here, simple revenge, an eye-for-an-eye-mentality that I can't condone. I understand him, but I'd rather he didn't go down that road. Honestly, were wouldthat leave us if everyone applied that kind of revenge/"justice" for him- or herself? That's why there are legal systems, to prevent people from handing out their own "justice". What that would boil down to is chaos - utter chaos. I definitely want to see Hotch struggle with what he's done, as it went beyond anything he'd ever worked for after all...

    And make no mistake, I understand that Hotch was way beyond his breaking point, and I don't blame him for killing Foyet in that way. I just would have wished that there had been another way... because actually the thing that disturbs me most is that people here (and on other boards) could cheer watching this. I've hardly seen a more disturbing scene.

    Marvelous performances by Gibson, the actress playing Haley... I thought their conversation was going to rip my heart out. I'm curious to see how they're going to handle Hotch's role in the series now. I'd hate for him to leave or be reduced to the sidelines... he's the reason I'm watching CM after all (well, not the only one but one of the main reasons).

    I'm already waiting for the next episode.
    Edited on 11/27/2009 3:03pm
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    CMJunkie

    [43]Nov 27, 2009
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    WOW! what an incredibly heartbreaking show... Hotch ripped my heart out with the cell phone call. I loved the team rallying around him when facing Strauss and also at the end.

    Re: Hotch becoming the animal Foyet was - that has been the question since the first episode - at what point would a profiler snap and become the monster they studied? I guess that point is being tormented with the death of your loved one while on the phone with them.

    Re: Jack leaving the room - I don't think Foyet cared, of course he knew he was going to hide. The hint Hotch gave was telling Jack WHERE to hide. Foyet was too arrogant to be concerned with a small child, when the "big fish" was on the way.

    I think once he gets his feet back under him and is more steady, Hotch will actually start going more towards the old Hotch who was solid and serious, but still able to enjoy his team. He will want to keep his promise to Haley.

    I am not usually emotionally effected by much on TV / movies because "it is just a show". Thomas Gibson had me in tears, and when Jack took the phone and said "Hi Daddy' and Hotch responded with a broken "Hi buddy" ... I turned into a blubbering blob.

    Emmy indeed!!!

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    woodstock-chan

    [44]Nov 27, 2009
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    CMJunkie wrote:
    I am not usually emotionally effected by much on TV / movies because "it is just a show". Thomas Gibson had me in tears, and when Jack took the phone and said "Hi Daddy' and Hotch responded with a broken "Hi buddy" ... I turned into a blubbering blob.


    Me and my mom each had our own personal box of tissues by that point.
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    phf3947

    [45]Nov 28, 2009
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    tellygirl wrote:
    I thought D.B. Sweeney had filmed more episodes so I wasn't sure if The Reaper storyline would actually be concluded in the 100th.

    I thought it was six episodes, too, but I guess that press release was wrong or the scripts were changed. His torture scenes were horrific, and the way Sam died was so heart-breaking. I'm not sure why there wasn't a safe word in place to prevent The Reaper from contacting Haley the way he did (one would think she'd been cautioned that anyone using her real name rather than her code name should be suspect), which is the way it would happen in a real case involving the U.S. Marshals Service, but I guess a little literary license was in order to make good drama.
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    elvenhome

    [46]Nov 28, 2009
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    In no way did Hotch turn into "the same animal as Foyet". Are you telling me that you would not kill a psychotic murderer in order to protect your child from him? They had already gone down the "justice" route - they put Foyet in prison, and he escaped.

    Also, I think this episode pretty much confirmed Hotch was raped in the first episode of the season.

    Hotch: "If you touch her..."

    Foyet: "Be gentle, like I was with you?"

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    lynna12000

    [48]Nov 28, 2009
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    I'm still not sure about the rape. Hotch may well have been referring to torture. Foyett had demonstrated, repeatedly, that he was able and willing to torture. Repeated stabbing could be considered torture. Hotch, like Haley later on, was trying to buy time. While Foyett was talking Hotch could be somewhat sure that he was not hurting Haley or Jack.

    The scene with Haley on the phone was all the more heartbreaking because Hotch and Haley both knew by then that she was going to die. At that point they were just trying to buy time for Aaron to save Jack.
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    BAUCTU

    [49]Nov 28, 2009
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    I don't for a second think Hotch was raped. IF that had been what he was referring to then he would have had to be intended to rape Haley too. If you think make to the attack on Hotch it was, for a stabbing, calm and not particularly frenzied. He took his time and was exact with what he was doing, that is what he means by gentle.

    I've watched the episode a few time and still find it very difficult to watch when Hotch loses control and kills Foyet. His face is so distorted and unHotch like it's hard to watch. On the plus side I can make it further in to the episode before I cry now...

    I don't believe you can put Hotch on the same level as Foyet, he didn't set out to kill him. He was fighting for his and his Jacks lifes. Right there and then he would have done anything to protect Jack and in that moment he lost control and did something completely out of character for him.
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    phf3947

    [50]Nov 28, 2009
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    BAUCTU wrote:
    I don't for a second think Hotch was raped.

    I don't either, but there's a possibility we'll know more about what happened in the next episode (speculation only because I'm trying to stay as spoiler-free as I can, all things considered).
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    BAUCTU

    [51]Nov 28, 2009
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    phf3947 wrote:
    tellygirl wrote:
    I thought D.B. Sweeney had filmed more episodes so I wasn't sure if The Reaper storyline would actually be concluded in the 100th.

    I thought it was six episodes, too, but I guess that press release was wrong or the scripts were changed. His torture scenes were horrific, and the way Sam died was so heart-breaking. I'm not sure why there wasn't a safe word in place to prevent The Reaper from contacting Haley the way he did (one would think she'd been cautioned that anyone using her real name rather than her code name should be suspect), which is the way it would happen in a real case involving the U.S. Marshals Service, but I guess a little literary license was in order to make good drama.


    Do we know for certain he is dead? I know it didn't look good in the ambulance but other than Foyet telling Haley he was dead was it confirmed?
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  • Avatar of REIDFANATIC

    REIDFANATIC

    [52]Nov 28, 2009
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    BAUCTU wrote:
    phf3947 wrote:
    tellygirl wrote:
    I thought D.B. Sweeney had filmed more episodes so I wasn't sure if The Reaper storyline would actually be concluded in the 100th.
    I thought it was six episodes, too, but I guess that press release was wrong or the scripts were changed. His torture scenes were horrific, and the way Sam died was so heart-breaking. I'm not sure why there wasn't a safe word in place to prevent The Reaper from contacting Haley the way he did (one would think she'd been cautioned that anyone using her real name rather than her code name should be suspect), which is the way it would happen in a real case involving the U.S. Marshals Service, but I guess a little literary license was in order to make good drama.
    Do we know for certain he is dead? I know it didn't look good in the ambulance but other than Foyet telling Haley he was dead was it confirmed?

    Now that you mention it we see Hotch coming out of a hospital, don't we? If Kasmeyer had died in the ambulance, which is how it appeard, Hotch wouldn't have wasted precious time going into the hospital, would he? Hotch would have probably called Anderson en route to bring him a car and he would have just left from the ambulance.

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    phf3947

    [53]Nov 28, 2009
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    B & RF, you bring up very valid points. Let's get this sorted out. If Haley and Foyet are dead, then there wouldn't be a need for D.B. Sweeney to return. But if he is alive, maybe we'll see more of him later in the season
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    scooterstarr

    [54]Nov 28, 2009
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    That was quite the episode! It was very well done and really emotional, I was close to tears at the end when Hotch was crying and talking to Haley. His fight scene with the Reaper was a little surreal, I felt like we'd suddenly jumped into an action movie. I do wonder where it's all going to go from here though. As if Hotch hadn't been through enough and been put under strain with everything leading up to this episode, with Haley's death and Jack to take care of, I don't know how he'll be able to keep doing the job. I don't think he's leaving the BAU (there's always rumours of him leaving the show, but we'd have heard something) but I'm definitely betting we'll be seeing him visiting with a therapist in future episodes.
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    BAUCTU

    [55]Nov 29, 2009
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    phf3947 wrote:
    B & RF, you bring up very valid points. Let's get this sorted out. If Haley and Foyet are dead, then there wouldn't be a need for D.B. Sweeney to return. But if he is alive, maybe we'll see more of him later in the season


    I could see him being someone that could help Hotch try and recover from what has happened. He spent a lot of time with Haley in the months before she died.
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    phf3947

    [56]Nov 29, 2009
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    Here's the press release that was issued in August, which states D.B. will appear in six episodes that will arc through the first part of the season. "100" was 9 of 23, so "first part" could mean up to episode 12. We can only hope he's not really dead - just really really injured
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    REIDFANATIC

    [57]Nov 29, 2009
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    phf3947 wrote:
    B & RF, you bring up very valid points. Let's get this sorted out. If Haley and Foyet are dead, then there wouldn't be a need for D.B. Sweeney to return. But if he is alive, maybe we'll see more of him later in the season

    I just rewatched the episode and Hotch tells the team on the phone as he's leaving the hospital that Foyet told Haley, using Sam's cell, that he was dead and she ditched her cell phone. He said he thought she might call him to check. We know that Sam didn't say any of that in the ambulance before he flatlined so he must have been resusitated to be able to tell Hotch that. Quite possibly he's still alive and perhaps we'll see him again.

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    CMJunkie

    [58]Nov 29, 2009
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    REIDFANATIC wrote:

    phf3947 wrote:
    B & RF, you bring up very valid points. Let's get this sorted out. If Haley and Foyet are dead, then there wouldn't be a need for D.B. Sweeney to return. But if he is alive, maybe we'll see more of him later in the season

    I just rewatched the episode and Hotch tells the team on the phone as he's leaving the hospital that Foyet told Haley, using Sam's cell, that he was dead and she ditched her cell phone. He said he thought she might call him to check. We know that Sam didn't say any of that in the ambulance before he flatlined so he must have been resusitated to be able to tell Hotch that. Quite possibly he's still alive and perhaps we'll see him again.

    My impression was all of the flashbacks of Sam's torture was as he was telling the team / Hotch. If that is so, he told Hotch in the ambulance. But I'll go with whatever keeps him alive
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    rerich

    [59]Nov 29, 2009
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    I have not spent much time on TV.com in the last year. It can eat your time without you realizing it. Also I haven't even watched this episode yet. I have to take care when I watch CM. It is not always too good for even the viewer's mental health. Also knowing Foyet was coming I had to find out who died and esp. if Jack made it or I would have expired before the end of the episode. So I will be watching tonight. However, I have two things to say.

    I'm beginning to wonder about me. I watch, besides Jeopardy, 4 hours of TV a week, all CBS crime shows. Obviously, I pick what I want to watch fairly carefully. I would like to watch a couple of CSI's but don't really have time, for instance. So what does it say about me that I watch NCIS, a show where it has been revealed that the lead character's wife and daughter were killed by a hit man (a sort of serial killer in itself) while he was on active duty and that he went to Mexico when the investigator told him there was no way to arrest the killer, so he killed him himself.

    As of this past Wednesday CM, the lead character had his ex-wife killed and barely managed to rescue his son and then killed the killer.

    On The Mentalist, the lead character lost his wife and daughter to a serial killer because of his 'job' and is looking for the killer so he can kill him and on the last new episode aired a cop in the hospital dying because of the same serial killer told him that he would finally catch the killer and when he did to kill him and not bother with arresting him.

    What does this say about me? What does this say about our country that this is obviously acceptible? I still remember how shocked I was when Magnum actually murdered instead of capturing the man who killed his wife. Also, did you notice than in each of these cases, the job was involved. In the Gulf War, not at home when needed. In a job that caused divorce and contract with killer. In a 'job' that his wife wanted him to get out of that involved conning people. But they all three lead to the loss of wife, loss or near loss of child, and in two cases a change of job.

    The second subject is Hotch's mental health. He's a single father now also. Yes, it makes you wonder how they can keep him in the job both as a reponsible parent and dealing with people like Foyet constantly. But really what I want to address is how much of this Hotch caused himself. Or should he have taken the different job Haley was so thrilled about and left the team to save his marriage. I want to think he realized that whatever job he had, if it were important to him, he would wind up spending too much time on it to suit Haley and his marriage was doomed sooner or later. Love is not enough, you both have to want the same things and she wasn't supporting him in his work. And if he went back to being a ADA, would it be any different. So much killing is random in this world. It's not safe no matter what you do. Neither Boston cop was a member of the BAU; none of Foyet's other victims were. Do judges, attorneys, cops all take a risk by trying to serve justice (those who are)?

    I think of this as the same topic, maybe not. Since he did stay with the BAU, Hotch was stuck with Foyet from the time that Boston cop (don't remember the name) called him to warn him that when he died the Reaper would be back. This man did what Foyet wanted and made a deal and was tormented to death by the decision he made while Foyet watched and enjoyed. Hotch would not make a deal and was tormented nearly to death by Foyet, for Foyet's enjoyment. Once the BAU was back in Boston on the case, Hotch was stuck no matter what decision he made. Foyet picked him and Foyet was bound and determined to have him.

    I think Foyet did go to Hotch's apartment that night to kill him and to play games. I think only Hotch's refusal to surrender and act afraid saved his life. Just maybe if he had known that it meant Foyet going after Haley and Jack, but Foyet would not go after them if Hotch surrendered, he would have surrendered. Hotch does usually seem so imperturbably that apparently a lot of the killers he captures want to break that. I'm not so sure that Foyet enjoyed it after all. I picture him toasting his toes in an eternal hot spot contemplating that provoking Hotch wasn't so much fun after all.

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    tellygirl

    [60]Nov 29, 2009
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    I also watched the episode again and now think that it is possible that Sam might have flatlined in the ambulance and was resuscitated. Reidfanatic gave a good point about Hotch walking out of the hospital, I was particularly interested in the interviews with Strauss to see if they mentioned Sam in the present tense which would indicate that he actually survived but there was nothing definitive although Emily did mention that Hotch was trying to get information from Sam before he lost consciousness, not before he died but that could have been an intention rather than what actually occurred. Two things that bothered me on second viewing was how come Hayley didn't know what Foyet looked like (if I was targeted by a psycho I would certainly want to be able to recognise him) and also Foyet, in his telephone conversation to Hayley at Sam's house said his name was Victor Collins but later Jack asked Hotch if "George" was a bad man.

    As for the theory that Hotch killing The Reaper made him "as much an animal as Foyet" I strongly disagree. I really didn't see any alternative other than Foyet dying as he was too much of a threat to allow him to go through the normal judicial procedures - at the end of 'Omnivore' he was caught and imprisoned but escaped resulting in Hotch being tortured both physically and emotionally, Sam also being tortured and (maybe) dying, Hayley being killed and Jack being left without a mother. If anybody has ever had a reason to lose control then it was Hotch at that moment - but I wasn't cheering and punching the air, I found it incredibly sad and uncomfortable to watch and the only scene that made me cry on second viewing and I, like CMJunkie was a "Blubbering blob" throughout the episode the first time I watched it! Thomas Gibson gave the performance of his life in this episode, Meredith Monroe was simply heartbreaking, C Thomas Howell has set a new benchmark for unsubs, it's going to be hard topping his performance and now I'm hoping that we might actually see some more of D.B. Sweeney
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