ie8 fix

Criminal Minds Forums

Wednesday 9:00 PM on CBS

Official discussion thread: "Big Sea" - Spoilers

  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [1]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 5,530
    Please discuss "Big Sea" in this thread. This episode was written by Jim Clemente & Breen Frazier and directed by Glenn Kershaw.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [2]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 5,530
    Special Notice: If you have any questions for Jim Clemente about profiling from a real FBI agent, please ask them in this thread. He will be online Tuesday night (May 10, 2011) to respond. Do not ask any specific questions about the episode, cast or anyone's contract.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of blue133

    blue133

    [3]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 01/09/11
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 323

    How many questions are allowed per person?


    In case it is only one, I would like to know what kind of factors lead into determining the age range, sex, and/or raceof the offender. I am fascinated by how a profile can aid in pinpointing the age, race, and/or sex of the offender.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of iHeartThisShow

    iHeartThisShow

    [4]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 01/09/08
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 215

    Questions for Jim:


    What would you say to the people that doubt that profiling is a science?

    Edited on 05/09/2011 12:44pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [6]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 5,530
    Any number of questions is fine, but ask one per post so he reply to each individually, and do not ask questions about the cast or the characters. They will be deleted.
    Edited on 05/09/2011 1:28pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [7]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 01/18/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 2,768
    This is awesome! Hi, Jim! We can't wait for your episode - yours are always so good and we need a good one.

    I was wondering if you could tell us about how long it takes in real life to come up with a somewhat complete profile? I know our CM profilers only have about 44 minutes, but I'd love to know the facts.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of blue133

    blue133

    [9]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 01/09/11
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 323

    Hi Jim,


    What would you say are among the biggest challenges in constructing a profile?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of tellygirl

    tellygirl

    [10]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 12/14/07
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 264

    Hi Jim, thank you so much for taking the time to answer some of our questions.


    Does the BAU typically profile people who have already been caught or, like our CM heroes, profile during an on-going investigation, time-sensitive, and all that, racing against the clock.



    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [11]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40

    blue133 wrote:


    How many questions are allowed per person?


    In case it is only one, I would like to know what kind of factors lead into determining the age range, sex, and/or raceof the offender. I am fascinated by how a profile can aid in pinpointing the age, race, and/or sex of the offender.



    Hey Blue,


    Basically, the determination of Age, gender and race of the offender are three different issues with three different sets of factors to consider.


    Age is most often referred to as Age/Maturity level in profiles. It can be inferred from the sophistication levels of the offender and the complexity of the crime. The gender determination has a great deal to do with the level of violence, weapon choice and target. The best example is the DC Sniper case in which the UnSub planned and executed 5 shootings in the first day of his spree. Then went on to flawlessly execute a number of other perfect shootings over the next 21 days. We originally profiled that he was a lone offender based on the fact that snipers are typically loners with god complexes and they don't play well with others. Then we studied the writings he left behind and saw serious indicators of immaturity that conflicted with the flawless planning and execution of the series of crimes which indicated military or police training and poise and confidence in carrying out high stress crimes. So, the discussion at the round table went from he's a 40+ year old adult male with military or police training, to he writes like a kid who's barely out of high school. He's either schizophrenic or for the first time in US history, we have a sniper team. The linguistic Profile of the Tarot card and other note left at the Ashville scene told us the writer was not a native US English speaker (This is for you Mr. Police, No Press) and from the Islands, which is how we came to African American race. And the only way a sniper could work with another person, is if one guy was totally dominating the other as in a great age disparity. So, we put an APB out for two African American males, one in his 40s, one in his late teens, driving a dark sedan and the rest is history...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [12]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40
    iHeartThisShow wrote:

    Questions for Jim:


    What would you say to the people that doubt that profiling is a science?



    I say... They are all free to Believe what they want to believe.
    But... Ask the thousands of police and federal agencies around the world that we have helped to solve their most difficult crimes and you might change you mind.

    However, I will say that Profiling is part Art and part Science. It is a field of specialized study that cannot accurately be empirically tested, so many scientists do not value it. But, many of us (FBI Profilers) are scientists. My degree is in Chemistry. Others have degrees in Entomology, Physics, Forensic Science, etc.
    So, by devoting all of our resources to studying and consulting on and teaching about Violent and sexual crimes... we tune our minds and our senses to ferret out details from the most minute and subtle behavioral clues. It informs out "Gut Instincts" and after doing it full time for a decade or so, a Profiler develops the confidence level to take in behavioral data and make accurate determinations in the blink of an eye, that to some seem like psychic phenomenon.
    Edited on 05/09/2011 6:23pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [13]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40

    Finnegan77 wrote:
    This is awesome! Hi, Jim! We can't wait for your episode - yours are always so good and we need a good one. I was wondering if you could tell us about how long it takes in real life to come up with a somewhat complete profile? I know our CM profilers only have about 44 minutes, but I'd love to know the facts.



    That previous answer was for i-Heart...



    Finn...


    Thanks for the support on my eps... they are really a team effort, but I do really enjoy getting to tell a story of my own from time to time.


    A real profile takes anywhere from 15 minutes to 15 months... depending on the circumstances and the amount of information we have. In child abduction homicides, 44% are killed within the first hour, 75% in the first three hours and 99% in the first 24 hours. It wouldn'tmake much sense spending a day developing a profile in that kind of case. So, when we get the info, we ask detailed and specific questions about the age, gender, and last known sitings and many times we can tell from that sketchy info, motive, Gender and Relationship of the offender.


    Also, Profiles always contain the caveat that they are based on the information available to date and are subject to change with additional information. How many times it changes and when that happens depends on when and how often new information develops. In the early days, the originators of the Unit only took cases that were absolutely dead. No more leads and no investigative avenues. Now we take cases in the first instant they are opened (child abductions, serial killers, for example) and we may constantly refine the profile all along the way. In this respect CM is very accurate.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [14]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40

    blue133 wrote:


    Hi Jim,


    What would you say are among the biggest challenges in constructing a profile?



    Hey Blue...


    Boy, you ask some seriously deep questions...


    The biggest challenge is compiling the most accurate, reliable, and complete information in a very short time. Then after taking all of that info in... trusting your "gut" to make the most nuanced calls about the myriad of choices that are out there.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [15]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40

    tellygirl wrote:


    Hi Jim, thank you so much for taking the time to answer some of our questions.


    Does the BAU typically profile people who have already been caught or, like our CM heroes, profile during an on-going investigation, time-sensitive, and all that, racing against the clock.





    TellyG...


    The original Profilers started the Interviewing Incarcerated Offenders Research Project (which continues to this day) and they used the knowledge to solve cases they were asked to consult on. There were only 3 or 4 of them back in the day, three decades ago. Now there are about 30 and they do hot and cold cases. In the hot cases, child abductions, school shootings, threats, terrorism, spree killings, etc, they are out there just like our heros, profiling on the run. In my last week in the FBI I jumped on a plane (coach) to Florida and worked a case until Thursday night. I got home early Friday. Changed my clothes, turned in my Badge and gun and retired that day...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [16]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40
    Thanks for your great questions and your amazing loyalty throughout a very trying season!!!

    Rest assured the entire Writing Staff, Cast and Crew all appreciate your loyalty.

    XO,

    Writer Jim
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [17]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 01/18/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 2,768
    Jim, what a wonderful gift you've given us in taking time to talk and answer our questions. Please take our well wishes back to cast and crew.

    I would like to know if the door-kicking, train-jumping, underwater-shooting styles of the CM profilers are pure television drama or have a little bit of reality in there inspiring them. In other words, does the profiling team go out into the field to hands-on catch the unsubs? Are they the first ones in the door? Or does it depend entirely on the situation? And, of course, I have to ask if you yourself have ever tackled a van?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of blue133

    blue133

    [18]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 01/09/11
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 323

    Jim, thank you so much for answering my questions! You don't know how thrilled I was to see that you had already answered the questions I posed


    At the risk of being a "question hoarder," I have another question for you From Criminal Minds and documentaries of FBI profilers like Robert Ressler, I've come to think that it may be a bit "easier" to profile cases involving organized individuals because there is seemingly some method to their madness, a pattern, certain type of victim, "master plan," etc., etc. (I placed the word easier in quotation marks because I can imagine that profiling is anything but easy).


    Assuming I am not off track with regard to organized offenders, what then would be the method used to profile the case of a disorganized killer? I would think that cases involving disorganized individuals would be a little more challenging than that of organized individuals. Is that correct?

    Edited on 05/09/2011 9:31pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [19]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40

    Finnegan77 wrote:
    Jim, what a wonderful gift you've given us in taking time to talk and answer our questions. Please take our well wishes back to cast and crew. I would like to know if the door-kicking, train-jumping, underwater-shooting styles of the CM profilers are pure television drama or have a little bit of reality in there inspiring them. In other words, does the profiling team go out into the field to hands-on catch the unsubs? Are they the first ones in the door? Or does it depend entirely on the situation? And, of course, I have to ask if you yourself have ever tackled a van?


    Finn-you-made-me-smile-egan!


    I will let the cast, crew and writing staff know you guys are out there pulling for us.


    I hate to burst any CM Fan bubbles, but once you have attained the position of Supervisory Special Agent Profiler, there isn't much in the way of door kicking or train jumping. Although I have wrestled a few vans to the ground in my time.


    Actually, you are absolutely right... It all depends on the situation. Every FBI agent is on call 24/7/365 and we all had to respond in major emergencies. As you might know, I got cancer like many of my colleagues in the Police, Fire Dept and FBI, from being one of the first responders at Ground Zero and the Pentagon. Believe me, that was an entire lifetime worth of door kicking and train jumping packed into a few short weeks.


    On child abductions, terror cases, spree killer cases and the like, I and other Profilers have been out there with the troops kicking butt and taking names.


    But for the most part it is a cerebral job and we leave the van wrestling to the SWAT and HRT guys (Like my brother Tim).

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WriterJim

    WriterJim

    [20]May 9, 2011
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 40

    blue133 wrote:


    Jim, thank you so much for answering my questions! You don't know how thrilled I was to see that you had already answered the questions I posed


    At the risk of being a "question hoarder," I have another question for you From Criminal Minds and documentaries of FBI profilers like Robert Ressler, I've come to think that it may be a bit "easier" to profile cases involving organized individuals because there is seemingly some method to their madness, a pattern, certain type of victim, "master plan," etc., etc. (I placed the word easier in quotation marks because I can imagine that profiling is anything but easy).


    Assuming I am not off track with regard to organized offenders, what then would be the method used to profile the case of a disorganized killer? I would think that cases involving disorganized individuals would be a little more challenging than that of organized individuals. Is that correct?



    Blue... You did it again


    In my mind Organized offenders are typically easier to Profile in certain respects, however they are much more difficult in others AND they are much harder to catch. By their very nature, they have more skill, criminal sophistication, forensic sophistication and are more likely to employ forensic countermeasures. They bring and take the implements needed to commit the crimes with them. They are more likely to have secondary and tertiary crime scenes. They clean up the victims and plant clues to lead us astray.


    Disorganized offenders, on the other hand, are much more impulsive and make careless mistakes. They don't plan their crimes well and are ofter under the influence of stress, alcohol or drugs, impairing their judgment and skills. So they are typically much easier to catch.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
ie8 fix