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Official discussion thread: "Epilogue" - Spoilers

  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [1]Nov 2, 2011
    • member since: 06/06/05
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    Please discuss "Epilogue" in this thread. This episode was written by Rick Dunkle and directed by Guy Ferland.
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  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [2]Nov 3, 2011
    • member since: 01/18/07
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    Interesting - I find a complete lack of chatter about this episode quite telling. I feel that it should have been a great case ... but somehow wasn't? Not sure if I even understand what I mean, but here goes.

    The case was different. It wasn't a matter of figuring out who the unsub was, but more a journey of the mind with our profilers, figuring out how and why he was killing. Which is good, right? But, still, we're left with lots and LOTS of time focused on our unsub, especially on those flashbacks to his horrible father. And his story just seemed kinda unbelievable to me. Found myself saying, 'oh, come on, you're bigger than him. just turn around and knock the stumbling drunk into the water.' Although I felt some sympathy for Chase, I didn't connect emotionally with the story - or really his character - at all. Even with the added tear-jerker of Chase being terminally ill - I didn't believe the connection between his past and his current murderous tendencies.

    We've already had an unsub who drowned and then revived his victims - and one who was exponentially scarier (Charm and Harm). Then we have more of the supposedly creepy 'what Chase is experiencing as he drowns' images. Why did this remind me so much of the ethereal after-death scene from "The Thirteenth Step"? Are we now going to explore the ramifications of spiritual life, God, the soul, and life after death? I'm thinking that stuff is way beyond the paygrade of a crime drama.

    However, I thought the other side of the coin, the TEAM stuff, was so much better this week. Great interaction in the bullpen with Reid watching Rossi. Excellent teamy banter. And surprising and fascinating revelations from Reid and Prentiss about their near death experiences. Didn't expect that. Great job! Unfortunately, we have more Prentiss as a combo of Dear Abby and therapist again, and the entire last scene with Rossi's ex had some of the most horrific dialogue I've ever heard. "I just can't do it." "I know." Really?? Then why did you burden him with this in the first place you selfish woman?? Sheesh! The fact that they had a child that died was plastered on with more tugs on the violin strings. Dusts hands - well, at least they resolved it in record time, what?

    Help me out here, gang of brilliant CM fans! Did this case feel off? Or is it me?
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  • Avatar of OverseasFan

    OverseasFan

    [3]Nov 3, 2011
    • member since: 11/21/10
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    To me the entire episode was... interesting. I completely agree with you, Finnegan, that the team interactions and that intense discussion about Reid and Prentiss' experiences was so wonderfully spot-on. This season, and especially with this episode, it just makes me so very happy to see this team together on screen again, precisely because they roll so well, so harmoniously together and it makes it so great to watch.


    At the beginning of the episode I thought "here we go with the unsub-first, team-second pattern again" and was initially quite bored. However, I do think that the UnSub and his motivation were quite unique, eventhough his methods weren't. The case started out very slow and predictable, but it got more and more interesting. The fact that we found out the unsub's story in sequences instead of all at once helped that.


    The profiling, on the other hand... After all these years I'm trying not to attribute my lack of complete understanding to the fact that I'm not a native English speaker, so could somebody please reassure me that the profiling again consisted of jumping from one thing to the other and was simply just... off? It was a bit difficult for me to follow. The unsub changed victimology and went all over the place because he's sick and running out of time, yes? But then.. that Chase actually knew what spot in which lake had the coldest temperatures feels very far-fetched to me, especially considering that he's suppossed to be devolving because of his panic.


    The Rossi arc, I'm happy that it's ended. Finding out that they've had a son was quite a shock, and it felt quite right to me. But overall, the personal aspect of this case left me wanting to hear more about Reid, I wanted to see a last scene between Reid and Morgan, and maybe Emily, too. I wasn't interested in what we witnessed about Rossi and Carolyn; I was interested in what we didn't get to see, which just makes me think, again, that the Rossi arc wholetogether was just off.


    Epilogue gets a 7 or 7.5 from me.

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  • Avatar of klgrndw

    klgrndw

    [4]Nov 3, 2011
    • member since: 02/16/10
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    Really enjoyed the team and character development in this one. And while the scene between Rossi and Carolyn was a tad over-acted, the end scene at her grave, next to the grave of their son, left me in tears. And suddenly I understood how they could still love each other and be divorced. Few marriages survive the death of a child, even an infant.


    The case wasn't that interesting to me, but they can't all be so I'm not all that bothered. I'm more interested in the team these days anyway. I agree with previous posts - so good to see this team back together again. As an ensemble cast they are fantastic.

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  • Avatar of scooterstarr

    scooterstarr

    [5]Nov 3, 2011
    • member since: 02/07/07
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    I agree that the episode was good, but it just didn't click for me. I liked the relevance of the team moments to the case. At least this week it was all tied into the death and the afterlife theme. Also Reid and Prentiss contributing their experience to the case was very welcome. I was so impressed that the writers managed to reference something extremely relevant that happened to the characters in past episodes, because it usually seems like no one has any memory of things that happened before the start of the episode.

    Also, was Hotch having a casual Friday in this one? I'm all for him in more casual attire, but him missing the tie was weird. Maybe it's his 'roughing it' attire when he investigates things in the wilderness.
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  • Avatar of bluemystique

    bluemystique

    [6]Nov 3, 2011
    • member since: 02/15/10
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    I thought it was a pretty good episode. It was definitely better than...the one before I believe. I liked that they went there with talks on the other side and what's beyond. I love that scene with Prentiss and Reid sharing their experiences. The not seemingly religious, scientist having an inexplicable experience that was seemingly pleasant and warm and the former devout Catholic having a dark and cold type of experience. I loved how Reid seemed to kind of struggle with it but yet accept it at the same time. It was rather interesting. I also loved Morgan's reaction because it stayed so true to his character being the one who often struggles with spirtuality and faith, I like when they touch upon it every now and then. He seemed to be willing to call it bologna but then Dr.Reid of all people expressed his experience and there was this moment of almost wonder in morgan's eyes. I like that Morgan's the one that probably wants to believe and deep down probably still does but he keeps fighting it because of his past experiences. It would have been even better if Garcia mentioned her experiences( I recall in Penelope her mentioning hearing music) and if Hotch also shared. That was probably one of my favorite scenes, along with the scene of them all noticing and being concerned for Rossi. They couldn't figure it out and most were hesistant to buy his Rockband excuse except Morgan...he didn't seem to buy it at all. Which brings me to my next point....


    Emily. I feel like I keep reiterating the same thing but I'm not fond of how they are using her at all. For example, when Rossi gave his excuse about being tired or whatever the others couldn't say for sure if he was lying or not. morgan seemed to be the only one of that group that could tell that he was, so why not use Morgan to feel Rossi out and probe more on that? He's just as if not more observant than Emily ever is and just as inclined to be helpful if he can. Emily (aka the woman who probably needs therapy the most and realistically should still be in therapy and never should have been cleared this soon) playing therapist is irritating. I know they emphasize that she compartmentalizes well, but c'mon. Ever since she got back she's been playing Mother Hen to everyone else (which to me is out of character for her. She's usually concerned and nosy but not to this degree) and hasn't exhibited realitic issues. How was she even cleared so soon? You'd think Hotch would fight that, because honestly, isn't that how Elle ended up losing it and killing someone before leaving? I refuse to believe that Emily after all that she's been through is stronger than Elle, who most people don't seem to like, but that dosen't take away the fact that she was a hardass/badass/strong woman. You would think Hotch and even his superiours would have learned their lesson from clearing Elle too soon, and even Gideon. So not only do they have Emily cleared and ready for duty w/o seeming to struggle with anything, but she's doling out advice to everyone? Again when do her words and her advice carry so much weight and have such an impact? It's something they've been doing since the premiere and I've found it annoying because it's more like a ploy to randomly insert her character into scenes just to use her, rather than writing something that holds some weight and using her character appropriately. Outside of the discussion with Reid about the afterlife I didn't get why they were using her the way that they were.


    I felt bad for Rossi. I knew he wouldn't be able to go through with it, being the good Italian Catholic man that he is. I thought it was extremely selfish of his ex wife to put that type of burden pressure and pain on him like that. I honestly and truly do. If that was her decision then she shouldn't have dragged him in and had him anguished over making it for her like that. She could have called him to be there in the end but all the other stuff was just selfish and painful to me. I did like the confirmation that Rossi had a kid. I alway suspected as much.

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  • Avatar of CRaivios

    CRaivios

    [7]Nov 3, 2011
    • member since: 05/21/08
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    The case was well done. I liked how they caught the unsub and saved the last victims. The part with Rossi was excellent - quietly handled at the end. It explained a lot without saying a word.
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  • Avatar of Moniquedee

    Moniquedee

    [8]Nov 4, 2011
    • member since: 12/23/07
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    Really good episode. Definitely better than the one before. Rossi and Carolyn really got me, I knew that he would never have helped her, but I now know why she felt like she asked him, because of the loss they had both shared. It will be interesting to see how this will affect him, we could see how just the fact of him asking and knowing that she was gonna die had already affected him, now that she is gone, it will affect him a lot worse.
    I love the personal sharing, that went on, I had no idea that happened to Reid and Emily. Reid being true to himself grabbled with the existence of God vs. Science.
    Also the personal lives of the team members coming to the surface is good, I hope they keep it on the side and not let it become a main focus, let the cases just do there thing. It was weird that Morgan was the only one who kinda realized that Rossi was lying, being Reid picked up something was wrong based on how long Rossi was on the same page. To the unsub, quite interesting, each person near death experience is so different, the insanity of trying to get the answer that you want is definitely interesting. Some of his story was kinda unbelievable though, because the part with his father and him on the lake, he could have just knocked over his drunk father into the lake and run away.
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  • Avatar of jenny_d_b

    jenny_d_b

    [9]Nov 4, 2011
    • member since: 05/20/07
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    The ending saved it for me.

    I usually like most of the episodes, but this week? Just plain boring. And the whole "I want to know what happens when we die"-thing seemed kind of... well, the plot sucked. That's the only way too put it.

    It could be I'm being too harsh because I'm re-watching season 4 and I watched "Minimal Loss" last night, and it's such a great episode... I don't watch it chronologically, so I've seen most of the episodes, and it just... reminds me of what CM used to be (and how how Grubler was with longer hair!) Could be I'm being either unfair or nostalgic here, and it could also be it clouds my judgment regarding THIS episode.

    But, the ending saved it. Call me patethic but I cried, I can't say if it was because of the expression in Rossi's face or when I realized they'd had a son together, but I just felt it was bad that a good Rossi moment had to happen in an episode like this.

    And personally, I liked the team dynamics too - good to see some of geeky Reid, with the counting of minutes, I feel like we haven't had that dorky geekiness in a while. I like team dynamics too, but it annoys me how much make-up JJ suddenly wears. She used to look much more natural, which fit better with her work.

    But, the whole Reid and Prentiss near death-scene kind of annoyed me. Could be because I'm not religious, but that show is usually based on facts, at least to some extent, and actual knowledge of crimes, concrete things. If we're beginning to drag God and "Jesus was in the light" into this, then count me out.
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  • Avatar of DavidH

    DavidH

    [10]Nov 4, 2011
    • member since: 11/04/11
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    Buh bye. Don't let the door hit you in the rear end.

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  • Avatar of Alydarbaby

    Alydarbaby

    [11]Nov 4, 2011
    • member since: 09/20/05
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    They never actually mentioned God. In fact it was more of a "something else beyond this life" sort of deal. There are tons of things in this world that are unexplained and what happens after we die is always going to be one of them until we ourselves actually die. I like the fact they brought this subject up and it is something that dug a little deeper into each character's beliefs or lack there of. The world is full of different beliefs so why can't this show be one of them? They aren't throwing it in your face in every episode but when you have a show that is constantly dealing with death it's bound to come up.



    Overall I think the episode had certain highlights and certain not so bright spots. I did like the fact we got to see the reasons or triggers that caused this unsub to do what he did. We don't always get that. The team interaction was great and it felt like old times in that respect. I was also glad to see a softer side to Rossi. He has come a long way from the character he was when first introduced to the show. Plus he has a very cool sense of humor. I like that a lot.

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  • Avatar of haldrey

    haldrey

    [12]Nov 10, 2011
    • member since: 02/23/08
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    Great, interesting and different episode. Maybe a little bit slower than the last week one but still better than most shows on the air.
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  • Avatar of eggyface

    eggyface

    [13]Nov 11, 2011
    • member since: 08/06/09
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    Absolutely beautiful last scenes for Rossi and his wife. NB Shakespeare was born and died on the same day, April 26 too. By repute at any rate.
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  • Avatar of Larexx

    Larexx

    [14]Nov 17, 2011
    • member since: 10/09/07
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    In this episode I just kept thinking how inept are these local cops & park rangers. The unsub kills someone on the shore while police boats are witnessing it on the lake & yet he escapes...with body in tow no less! The unsub siphons gas from the wave runner & no one notices. He kidnaps Mom off the side of the road & the son from their car & no one sees. And all that drowning & resuscitating happening. How unbelievably lucky can one guy be?! I liked that Reid & Prentiss shared their near death experiences. It gave new insight into old episodes & tied the old with the new. I like when they reference older episodes. It was interesting that Reid, the science guy, had the religious experience while Prentiss, the Catholic girl, had nothing. I'm not sure what the point was to bring in Rossi's dying ex-wife other than to let us know they suffered the loss of an infant son. I can empathize having lost an infant daughter myself on 7/27/86. It's not something you EVER get over. But having said that, I'm glad they didn't drag out that storyline.

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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [15]Nov 19, 2011
    • member since: 04/30/05
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    I agree it was okay but off in many ways the unsubs journey wasn't that engaging and the drowning angle being done before nothing new came out of it this time around and as to Rossi's wife if she was just going to pill herself why involve him at all. Last thing he would've needed was the team looking at him for committing an illegal act or having to hold that secret I suppose she knew he wasn't going to do it and did what she had to do at the last moment.

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