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Official discussion thread: Open Season - Spoilers

  • Avatar of scooterstarr

    scooterstarr

    [21]May 3, 2007
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    BAUCTU wrote:
    If you look at the promo for Legacy, Hotch looks pretty awful. It could be that they are building up to something happening in No Way Out(2) but on the pictures of that episode Hotch looks fine! We've all read interviews were the long hours are mentioned, 24 episodes is perhaps just too many for a 7 strong team!


    I don't know about him looking awful in the preview, he was saying something about sadism or killers so he probably wouldn't look too cheerful. Frankly I was too busy being freaked out by the rest of the preview with the guy in the mask wheeling the gurney into the killing room. We're definitely back on track from the phenomenally bad episode we had last time, but I think it was lack of suspense that took a little bit of the edge off for me. We knew who we were looking for at the beginning, so whatever the team discovered I already knew. I did find the brothers glee and sense of normalcy about their kills very disturbing. By the end I felt sorry for the younger brother, as it seems Gideon did as well, because it seemed that he was just doing what he had been taught, and didn't know anything else.

    I also loved the all female scene. They really bond together well as a group and its nice to see them having fun together outside of work.

    Morgan really does seem to be turning into everyone's older brother. Or maybe it's just because he seems to be the only one on the plane who never sleeps in these kinds of moments.
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  • Avatar of sandersidle

    sandersidle

    [22]May 3, 2007
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    I really enjoyed this episode. I do agree, however, that some of the acting wasn't that great. I didn't enjoy when the only alive victim made that comment to the killer. I just didn't like it. And why did she only stab the guy two times and then got off him? Come on, once you've got him, don't let him go! Gesh!

    I loved the plane scene, though. I'm so glad they do that, because they need personal scenes as well as cases. It was so cute when JJ and Reid were sitting together and reading.
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  • Avatar of smartchick

    smartchick

    [23]May 3, 2007
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    I suppose Morgan's role has something to do with his lack of sleeping, or the fact that (usually out of good-natured intentions) he's always sticking his nose into everybody's business.

    Maybe some of the letdown we're all experiencing is also due to coming down off the unexpected and much-hyped Superbowl high, not to mention the subsequent craziness that it generated in a whirlwind fashion. Season 2 evolved into a rollercoaster season. Between all the wild speculating and heated arguing that has ensued in these forums, I think many of our brains will need the summer break to recuperate.

    (Oh wait...I take that back. Criminal Minds has set up another season finale cliff-hanger, so nooooo...the fun-filled madness shall live on! )

    I think another key difference everybody has noticed was the storyline orientation. Normally, the cameras focus on the team methodically solving the case. This time, the story paid much more attention to the actual plight of the victim, which did detract from the suspense to a certain degree. I appreciate all creative attempts to "shake things up," because that is necessary to avoid repetitiveness, but I don't think the writers should spend too much time with this particular storyline approach.

    There have only been 2 episodes since Jones anyway, one of which accidentally became infamously bad. Either way, Open Season was many steps up from Honor Among Thieves.

    Edited on 05/03/2007 11:40am
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  • Avatar of flowerxchild

    flowerxchild

    [24]May 3, 2007
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    smartchick wrote:

    I suppose Morgan's role has something to do with his lack of sleeping, or the fact that (usually out of good-natured intentions) he's always sticking his nose into everybody's business.

    Maybe some of the letdown we're all experiencing is also due to coming down off the unexpected and much-hyped Superbowl high, not to mention the subsequent craziness that it generated in a whirlwind fashion. Season 2 evolved into a rollercoaster season. Between all the wild speculating and heated arguing that has ensued in these forums, I think many of our brains will need the summer break to recuperate.

    (Oh wait...I take that back. Criminal Minds has set up another season finale cliff-hanger, so nooooo...the fun-filled madness shall live on! )

    I think another key difference everybody has noticed was the storyline orientation. Normally, the cameras focus on the team methodically solving the case. This time, the story paid much more attention to the actual plight of the victim, which did detract from the suspense to a certain degree. I appreciate all creative attempts to "shake things up," because that is necessary to avoid repetitiveness, but I don't think the writers should spend too much time with this particular storyline approach.

    There have only been 2 episodes since Jones anyway, one of which accidentally became infamously bad. Either way, Open Season was many steps up from Honor Among Thieves.



    That is very true about the cameras usually following the team more than the victims. I think that was one of the things people felt weird about with this episode. I was very suprised myself when the scene kept going with the three victims in the woods for awhile. I thought it was so adorable also when JJ and Reid were reading together. Also when Morgan says for Reid to go to town with Hotch and JJ because he needs fresh air I noticed JJ and Reid slightly smirking at one another. Don't know what it meant but it was pretty cute.
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  • Avatar of BAUCTU

    BAUCTU

    [25]May 3, 2007
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    The whole point of CM is that they are called in after the crime and the initial investigation has taken place meaning we don't usually got as much of the crimes and victims as you would in a CSI type show. We obviously do often get further victims after the BAU are brought on board but they don't tend to be the emphasise of the show.
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  • Avatar of JPPT1974

    JPPT1974

    [26]May 3, 2007
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    It was good. Glad to seeing Reid back as Reid. As really we missed that now didn't we?
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  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [27]May 3, 2007
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    smartchick wrote:
    There have only been 2 episodes since Jones anyway, one of which accidentally became infamously bad. Either way, Open Season was many steps up from Honor Among Thieves.

    I think it goes Jones - Ashes and Dust - HAT (which I will not even honor with its title) - then Open Season.  It does get confusing with all the repeats inserted in there.

    Seems like most of us are on the same page.  OS was good, just not great.  Not enough suspense built through scene sequences and spotlights on the victims.

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  • Avatar of BAUCTU

    BAUCTU

    [28]May 3, 2007
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    I have to say I quite like that one, it's not a top-tenner but it was good. Sure some of the guest stars were the weakest we've had and 15 minutes in they'd pretty much got it all figured out so it was kinda lacking in suspense but it had plenty of good points.

    Loved Hotch curled up on the plane, so unHotchlike! He's usually the one awake on the plane not curled up cutely. I was also very touched with the scene of Gideon and the boy dieing. Absolutely loved the scene at the beginning, it's lovely to see Prentiss fitting in with the other girls.

    I'm going to need to watch this one a few more times before I have a real true opinion, I do have the feeling its weaknesses will become more apparent the more I watch. After that thing they aired the other week which was supposedly an episode of CM this was a nice change back to where we were before.
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  • Avatar of BAUCTU

    BAUCTU

    [29]May 3, 2007
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    smartchick wrote:

    I think Prentiss was thinking more along the lines of shared mindsets. Maybe what rattled her the most was the idea that, aside from the dividing lines of morality, compassion, and empathy, perhaps she was not that much different than the killers. Thinking she couldn't be more different from the killers than the east is from the west was probably a more comfortable train of thought than, "Hmm, there's only a couple of differences, not a thousand."

    In my opinion, however, those dividing lines really do put tremendous distance between the agents and the unsubs. Still, that's the best interpretation I can provide for why Emily might've been bothered.

     

    To do their jobs they need to be able to think like the unsubs, to get into their minds. I guess what Prentiss was trying to say was what stops them becoming like the unsubs, if the can think like them they can be like them. I get what she was saying but there is a big difference between them and the unsubs - empathy. We've heard them say it enough times. Of course you do have to consider what happened with Elle, in affect she crossed that boundary.

    ETA. Reids reaction when Morgan said he'd go to the woods looked like an 'oh yeah' one to me unfortuately.  The way JJ grinned at him makes me think they were both thinking he wants to be with Prentiss.  I hope I'm way off the mark though, I really don;t want them going down that route.

    Edited on 05/03/2007 2:07pm
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  • Avatar of ringwraith33

    ringwraith33

    [30]May 3, 2007
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    Flaws:

    Absolutely horrendous acting. For some reason, I just couldn't believe any of the victims. Not one of them. Maybe it wasn't that bad and I just expected more, but I haven't seen a CM episode yet where I felt like the victims were just running through the motions. The first guy who gets an arrow through the chest, no one reacts and says "JESUS CHRIST." Someone calmly asks, "where did that come from?" and another says, "Michael?"

    The deaths. Every single person took a high velocity arrow through the chest. They all died exactly the same way. Shocked look on their faces, and hands out to the side. Have you ever heard of falling down? Getting knocked over? At least, make it kind of different.

    Plotholes. First of all, even if we hadn't seen the guys kill in the beginning of the episode, any idiot would have thought "hmm woods, no bullets. Ridiculously deep puncture wounds that actually go through the back. It takes place in the woods. I'm going to guess, bow and arrow?" There is no way, as smart as that team is, not one of them would put the obvious facts together and identify the kill weapon as soon as they had information about the bodies.

    The girl outsmarting the two hunters. No. Wouldn't happen. She's some blone, city chick driving a Mustang. She manages to descend on the one hunter from a tree like god damn Batman. They've been hunting and killing people for years, yet because she made the realization, "they want us to run," she got the better of them? Nope. Fraid not. Like her buddies, she would have ended up with an arrow in the gut.

    Last but not least is the fact that everything in that episode seemed cheesy and cliched. "Looks like I had all the fun, you sob." People hung up in a tree. The hunters didn't do that to any other victims. Why these guys? And whats her name just happens to walk under the one bleeding. I haven't seen that in every horror movie ever made. She jumps down on the guy from the tree, also ridiculous.

    I just didn't enjoy this episode, at all. I'm glad some of you did, but I thought Honor Among Thieves was better than this. 

    Edited on 05/03/2007 2:40pm
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  • Avatar of smartchick

    smartchick

    [31]May 3, 2007
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    Oops , yeah, "Ashes and Dust" was somewhere in there too. Guess I didn't remember it because it's the one episode I've missed all season, so it's the only episode for which I have no personal recollection and haven't formed an opinion. But from what others have said, it was pretty good too, so I doubt it can be said that all the Criminal Minds episodes have simply started snowballing downhill.

    Yeah, the scene between Gideon and the dying younger brother was one of the more tender moments I've seen from him. He may have an abrupt, if not occasionally grumpy, exterior, but he truly acts like the wise grandfather of the group.

    I honestly don't know how to interpret the exchanged smirk between Reid and JJ. I, too, sincerely hope it had nothing to do with them silently acknowledging a suspected crush they feel Morgan might have on Prentiss. Things are complicated enough without any romantic relationships getting added into the mix. A romance would detract from the "family" persona they've adopted, not to mention provide a sense of weirdness and cause unnecessary tensions. I feel the same way about a romance between Reid and JJ.

     

    Edited on 05/03/2007 3:00pm
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  • Avatar of Durwen

    Durwen

    [32]May 3, 2007
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    Well, I've seen this episode at last. And that's a bad thing, because I should be doing Important Things with Deadlines, not watching TV. But, what can I say, I'm an addict.

    I had read some of the posts of this topic already, and I must say i didn't find it nearly as bad as some of you seem to think. It may not be their best, but it still qualifies as an average CM episode IMO, which is not bad at all. Maybe the problem is that we have had a row of truly awesome episodes (that appears to have found a sudden demise with Honor Among Thieves).

    The all-girls scene is worth the entire episode. It's just brilliant. I'm happy the gave Prentiss more screen time. Her character it's not so easy to grasp as Elle's, but I think I like her. BTW, I don't think there's nothing weird going on between her and Morgan...She's just trying to fit in the group and he's willing to help. I mean, she already gets along well with the ladies, Reid is, well, not himself, and Gideon and Hotch are not the kind of guys you banter with, so in the whole testosterone side of the team there's only Morgan left.

    Talking about Reid (geez, I really should start working), he really has begun empathising with the victims. He looked quite sad throughout the entire episode (looking at the photos, when he found de driving licenses...). And where the heck were the statistics???? No itching nor sctatching, though. I certainly hope they won't abandon the drug thing...

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    phf3947

    [33]May 3, 2007
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    smartchick wrote:
    Oops , yeah, "Ashes and Dust" was somewhere in there too. Guess I didn't remember it because it's the one episode I've missed all season, so it's the only episode for which I have no personal recollection and haven't formed an opinion.

    This episode will be repeated on May 30, so we'll be expecting an op-ed piece from you afterwards
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  • Avatar of Flutesong55

    Flutesong55

    [34]May 3, 2007
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    I agree with all who say the opening scene was great, I liked the girls-night-out idea that they spend some free time together. The killers vs the team was not the best of the season, probably because we get NO dialogue between any of the team and the killers. Gideon, being kind to the dying bastard at the end was an interesting choice for his character who we have seen really hate some of the unsubs, but given what he has seen this sesaon regarding religion and death, maybe he was moved to allow the guy to go peacefully. The various victims panicing seemed pretty real to me. I don't know many people who would think cooly and quickly in such a situation.

    I really liked the sheds for the cars, over 20 years worth of victims' cars. That was hide in plain site - looking for the ones the park service knew about over the years and they never asked the nearest service station?

    Prentiss - eh - I cannot warm to her and find it sort of forced that the writers are making her and Morgan bond, like he had with Elle.
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    ried_lover26

    [35]May 4, 2007
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    yeah the girls night out thing was great! i loved the "do you have to carry a badge whereever you go?" then "Does it look like this? or this? or maybe this?" i loved it
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    SpencerREid

    [36]May 4, 2007
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    flowerxchild wrote:

    One thing I missed was Reid... again. I mean I know he had a lot of screen time this season but come on. I don't know the last time he just said a random fact. He's not the same Reid at all.

    I couldn't agree with you more. I know all episodes cannot focus on Reid. He is not everyone's favorite. And there also needs to be a balance between all the characters in the team. But a random fact here and there won't hurt the episode.

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    SpencerREid

    [37]May 4, 2007
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    I did like the episode but it was predictable. As soon as I saw the campers I knew they were all going to die and the blond girl not. I was right. And I'm usually not. I like to be surprised more.

    The good thing is that we learnt more about Prentiss. I am starting to warm up to her character. I especially loved the first scene. All the girls bonding. That was fun!!!

    I agree with whoever said that there were some very unrealistic scenes. Like the girl stabbing the younger brother (they can detect animals in the woods but not an inexperienced tired girl???? ) Also when she overpowered the older brother and stabbbed him....Totally unrealistic. He is a man, much bigger,stronger and more rested. An experienced hunter.

    Reid didn't talk much...no random facts or statistics. I would be a liar if I'd say I didn't miss that. But that is not the reason why this episode was not one of my favorites. The unrealistic scenes bothered me and also they never got to explain to my satisfaction why the brothers became human hunters and enjoyed it so much.True. They were raised in isolation by the uncle since they were quite young and the uncle liked to hunt humans. But why did they enjoy hurting people so much??? That wasn't explained. Basically I wasn't convinced by the psychological explanation. It was very weak in my opinion and THAT bothered me the most.

    Also I don't see how Emily could even think that just because she needs to understand the way a criminal thinks and behaves she can relate to them. That didn't make any sense to me either. I was like huh????

    Edited on 05/04/2007 1:19pm
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  • Avatar of SushiGal

    SushiGal

    [38]May 4, 2007
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    I loved the girls night out thing too. I was cracking up when they showed their REAL FBI badges, and that guy slunk away, knowing he was a fool. lol

    I also liked that the female "victim", Bobbi, was NOT a victim. She ended up being a strong woman, and  the UNSUBS ended up being the victims. It also didn't hurt that Bobbi was portrayed by one of my favorite young actresses, and that she was on one of my favorite TV shows.

    Edited on 05/04/2007 1:15pm
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    Reid_luver

    [39]May 5, 2007
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    Hey Everybody!!! Sorry I haven't been here for a while, but AP tests are coming up and I'm incredibly busy with studying, but I was finally able to see my tape of this ep, and I must say, IT WAS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't know why so many people hated it, but I think it was great. True, some of the victims didn't do a good job of acting, but so what!!!! Plus, I think that if you're at a campout with your new spouse, and suddenly an arrow slices through your chest, your mind is gonna freeze and I don't think you'll waste time screaming, "I'm dying!!!!!" or "That hurts!!!!!" You'd be completely surprised and not able to process the fact.

    The beginning was HILARIOUS!!!!! "What's it like at Quan-tEEco?" "Do it look like this? Or this? How about this?" I'll never stop laughing at that.

    I LOVED that the victim Bobbi wasn't a victim at all. She fought for her life, and brought it to the unsubs. What she says to Paul at the end is perfect, "Looks like I was having all the fun." However, she should have stabbed him until he died, but then they wouldn't be able to drag out the story. Plus, it seemed like Morgan shot Paul a little more than he needed to, but I'm guessing he was enjoying that.  

    I did however, feel like I'm missing something, because this show was scheduled for after Doubt, and I have a feeling that Reid was one of the members who had doubts about his job when the unsub wasn't captured. That's probably why he didn't have such a large role in this one.

    Ending, I liked where they brought out the connection between the team and those brothers, but I mean, come on. The BAU "hunts" unsubs to save other lives, the brothers did it for sport and enjoyment!!!!! DUH!!!

    All in all, this was an AMAZING show!!!!!!!!!!!! 10 out of 10!!!!!!

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  • Avatar of ried_lover26

    ried_lover26

    [40]May 5, 2007
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    Reid_luver wrote:

    I don't know why so many people hated it, but I think it was great. True, some of the victims didn't do a good job of acting, but so what!!!! Plus, I think that if you're at a campout with your new spouse, and suddenly an arrow slices through your chest, your mind is gonna freeze and I don't think you'll waste time screaming, "I'm dying!!!!!" or "That hurts!!!!!" You'd be completely surprised and not able to process the fact. The beginning was HILARIOUS!!!!! "What's it like at Quan-tEEco?" "Do it look like this? Or this? How about this?" I'll never stop laughing at that. Ending, I liked where they brought out the connection between the team and those brothers, but I mean, come on. The BAU "hunts" unsubs to save other lives, the brothers did it for sport and enjoyment!!!!! DUH!!!

    I couldnt agree more! If someone were to shoot you with an arrow from behind like that your not likely to say anything just give a shocked expression and die

    that part was sooo funny i was laughing so hard i will never forget that!!

    i was kinda talking to the tv i was saying "look emily you guys 'hunt' people that kill people and that makes the world a better place so you are Nothing like them!

    Edited on 05/05/2007 12:14pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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