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Official discussion thread: "Proof" - Spoilers

  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [1]Sep 28, 2011
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    Please discuss "Proof" in this thread. This episode was written by Janine Barrois and directed by Karen Gaviola.
    Edited on 12/18/2011 8:31pm
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  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [2]Sep 28, 2011
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    Honestly, I don't know what to say. Reid pouting like a twelve year old girl plus the most graphic depiction of torture that I remember seeing. The "cooking lesson" at the end seemed so contrived. Somebody help me put this ep into perspective.
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  • Avatar of blue133

    blue133

    [3]Sep 28, 2011
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    Finnegan77 wrote:
    Honestly, I don't know what to say. Reid pouting like a twelve year old girl plus the most graphic depiction of torture that I remember seeing. The "cooking lesson" at the end seemed so contrived. Somebody help me put this ep into perspective.


    Wasn't the writer who wrote this episode the same one who wrote the 13th Step episode Undecided

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    NeeUyank

    [4]Sep 29, 2011
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    I have seen only a few episodes of criminal minds that had such graphic display of torture, it was truly blood chilling.. I assume they have one of these in every season to gather the audiance back.. and reid's response was very expected, I thought morgan would have shown some reaction as well.. anyhow it was a very strong episode, one of those that make you remember why this show is in its 7th season..

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    xRyudo

    [5]Sep 29, 2011
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    Reid might have reasons to be angry, but instead of talking to JJ about it or even Hotch, he decided to be a pointless jerk to her. It just felt way out of char for him in my eyes.

    Morgan is just keeping his feelings inside and handling things better than Reid is, there's no way he wouldn't be angry about this. I'm sure this whole story arc is long from being done, even after the whole happy party at the end of the episode.
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    OverseasFan

    [6]Sep 29, 2011
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    I really don't know what to think or feel. This episode was a crazy mixture, more in the negative sense that the show's in some sort of identity crisis.


    At the beginning it felt wonderfully satisfying to have the team back and working together again, the little touches like the brief hesitation between JJ and Garcia over presenting the case helped push things into place. I'm loving having especially JJ back, and so far her character has really grown into her recent role as a profiler in a very fitting way.


    However, I'm not sure how I feel about the way they're dealing with Prentiss's return. Especially with the ending scene, the episode left a really weird taste in my mouth. I found the last scene to be utterly cheesy, to be completely honest, very out of place, and with the whole side-story about Reid being angry, watching this episode made me feel like a very drunk person swaying from one side of the line to the other; from the gory criminal drama to the soapiest of soap operas.


    There are so many things to be fixed.


    One of which is the reccurring theme of telling us everything about the unsub and the crime from the start. It makes the plot completely uninsteresting, outright boring to watch the team try to solve it.


    Another one is, like I said, this identity crisis the show seems to be having. Plot needs to be placed right in the center, because this is a crime procedural, this is Criminal Minds.Yes we do love character interaction, but there's no point turning this into a bad family drama. This is another bad choice that seems to be dragging from last season - exaggeration and overexposure. It felt so very weird to me to watch the little fight between Reid and JJ, all the bickering Reid did, and again, that last scene with the cooking.. Reid going to JJ's house crying for ten weeks after the funeral? Subtelty, writers. Belivability. Because you're destroying these wonderful characters in the process as well. Please go back and watch seasons one, two, three.. and remember how it's done.


    What can I say? I'm not happy.

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  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [7]Sep 29, 2011
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    [ QUOTE="OverseasFan"]What can I say? I'm not happy.[ /QUOTE]

    May I join the club?
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  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [8]Sep 29, 2011
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    Oh, me too!

    10 weeks of crying? And yet, last episode, we're given to believe the Reid has become somewhat badd-assier? Cheez and crackers is the guy an adult or not? I agree with all the above comments. Last night's ep was written by a teen vampire writer wannabe and the entire last scene should have been cut. In contrast, I loved the little scene between Hotch and Rossi where Hotch "doesn't" order him to give Garcia a cooking lesson - that was priceless and perfect. But the dynamic of the last scene reeked of writers' room panic attack and 'how can we make sure the viewers know this is a family?' Not this way, sez I.

    The outright disgust I feel at the other storyline - no, not the storyline, the way it was portrayed and splattered across our screens with every sinew and bloody rent visible - is something else again. Cerebral. This show WAS about a team focusing on the minutia of behavior to figure out where/who/why, not focusing on the carnage. And it used to be a puzzle game for the viewers, too.

    Apparently all the crappy writers from last season are now working full time. Joy to the world.
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    Finnegan77

    [9]Sep 29, 2011
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    And, may I just add (since you apparently can't edit your message anymore) that little speech by Prentiss to Reid on the plane? Really? She was mourning for six? Did she think they were dead? Did she attend all their funerals? And, what does that have to do with Reid being mad at JJ? A little Morgan/Reid headslap would have gone over much better than her whiny conversation.
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    lynna12000

    [10]Sep 29, 2011
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    Prentiss had no idea of when, or even IF, she could return to her old life. So, it does follow that she would 'mourn'. She had lost something very dear to her.

    As to the headslap, while it may be a pleasant thought in the circumstance, it wouldn't work for Reid. He would not respond well to physical violence.

    Mostly, I think Reid is angry at himself. He's a 'genius', yet he didn't work out the subtle clues. He was just like everyone else: ordinary.
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    Larexx

    [11]Sep 29, 2011
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    Wow, they couldn't have thought up a more gory way to die. Acid in the eyes! When I saw the poor girls faces in the morgue it made me cringe & swear & I'm not the swearing kind! Did we really need to see that?! I don't watch CSI because I don't want to see the graphic details. Please, CM, don't do that to me again!


    And what a turn around for Reid this week. Last week, he was handling his gun & the senate committee & this week, I totally agree, he was a pouting little girl! What gives?! One week showing growth & maturity & the next behaving childishly. So disappointed!


    I made a family analogy about last weeks episode but that was brought to a whole new level with the "family" cooking lesson at the end of this weeks show. So cheesy! And the doorbell ringing and a happy & apologetic Reid shows up. Awww, a happy ending! For who?!

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    LuvnCM

    [12]Sep 29, 2011
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    it's "cmjunkie" -- tv.com evidently hates me. I tried to log in with my user name or my regular email - no joy. I put in a secondary email and it sent this user name?? I never even remember creating it? Oh well - moving on I have to leave most of the review stuff for others, because for the first time in CM history I fell asleep. After reading, I think I am grateful. I did like the convo that JJ and Prentiss had about how JJ had completed her courses and case studies. I hated knowing the unsub from the first frame of the episode. I am afraid to put much faith in what looked like a decent promo of next week.
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  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [13]Sep 29, 2011
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    Ack! CMJunkie...I couldn't log in either with Firefox or IE, so I used my iPad to write this. Maybe they're fixing stuff right now...like maybe the forums
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    Will_of_the_D

    [14]Sep 29, 2011
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    I don't get the hate for this episode. Only explanation I can come up with is that there's just some inner desire to find things wrong with the show.

    The most graphic episode? Last night's episode was nothing compared to many of the cases of CM past. The ending was cheesy? God forbid the team have a little fun.

    What is uncanny about Reid crying for 10 weeks? Frankly, it made perfect sense. And since when did Reid become some badass? lol Frankly, this contradiction seems to be just illusionary. All in all, what was so bad about this episode? I can't find anything. It was good stuff. And the anger surrounding some with it, I can't help but start playing profiler and wondering if there isn't something deeper at play here.
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    Finnegan77

    [15]Sep 29, 2011
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    I'd like a list of those more graphic episodes before season 6 please. Hints, flashes, scenes that give a nod towards what the unsub was doing? Yep, we had loads of that. Actually watching the entire torture? Nope, don't remember that.

    Crying for 10 weeks? I don't know anyone who's cried for 10 weeks straight that a husband/wife has died suddenly let alone a co-worker. Reid was more than clinically depressed if that happened and needed treatment.
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    nutmeg0963

    [16]Sep 29, 2011
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    Well, unfortunately, I have known people who lost a spouse or a best buddy, and it took months and months of recovery. Crying is a natural part of the grieving process, and 10 weeks isn't unreasonable or abnormal under the circumstances. Talking/crying/grieving on the should of a close buddy (who happened to be one of the girls in the group, btw - take note that it wasn't somebody like Morgan) is hardly equivocal to bawling at the rounding table in front of everyone for 2 months.

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    nutmeg0963

    [17]Sep 29, 2011
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    Point is - guys cry too, folks. I honestly don't think it makes somebody a wuss if they cry in privacy for awhile over the death of a loved one.


    Now, should Reid have acted in a more professional manner while they were working the case? Sure, he should have. However, it wouldn't be the first time a professional person didn't put aside a personal problem or grudge to focus on the task at hand. It happens. It's a normal human reaction. Was I the only one who wasn't surprised that Morgan handled it better? He's much older and more mature. Reid still has a ways to go.


    Last night's episode wasn't what I'd call "on par" with older seasons, but frankly, I was still far more entertained last night than I was during 95% of season 6. Have to start digging out of the deep hole sometime. Nobody promised that it'd be overnight.

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    amaryllis88

    [18]Sep 29, 2011
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    I'm usually the one all about the gore and everything, but this episode made me cringe!! (Mainly because it had to do with eyebally stuff, and eyeballs freak me out...no matter what context they are in!) But, acid and eyes?! Double whammy! I had to fast forward through some scenes, I couldn't bear to watch or hear!

    I wasn't too fascinated with the storyline either, as somebody else mentioned, I'm tired of finding out all about the UnSub (or in our cases the Known Subject), and then the team comes second. I want our team to come first, and then the unraveling of the profile, (just like the good ole days!). I did like the scene between Hotch and Rossi, the "ordering" of him to do a team building cooking class at his mansion. lol

    And, I kinda liked the togetherness of them at the cooking lesson, but I would love it if they could have one of those eating dinner scenes they used to have, or the bar scenes that used to be there...I miss those!
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    pamhalpert

    [19]Sep 29, 2011
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    WOW!..I guess I'm not the only one that thought this episode sucked.

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  • Avatar of nutmeg0963

    nutmeg0963

    [20]Sep 29, 2011
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    So do I, amaryllis. So do I...I'm not sure why, but for some reason, to me that scene felt a little forced. Not that it wasn't well-acted or enjoyable, just...forced. Who knows, maybe my head was just still spinning from the dark, angry mood switch to happy happy happy!

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